What happens when the law is failing to do what it's supposed to?
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Vehicle plows into counter protesters in Charlottesville
- Thread starter Regulus Tera
- Start date
Answer the question. What is the solution? Because a black man got his ass beat five feet from a police station during a Nazi rally and no one has been arrested for it.
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
A non-violent response to Nazis is the same as Appeasement. Look how that worked out.
Temeculan3000
Member
I have to believe that a good number of Trump voters regret that choice now. This is a problem with our two party system, people who hold Republican or conservative views feel they have no choice but to vote for whoever the Republican nominee is, or throw their vote away. They truly believe that Hillary will raise their taxes and ruin the economy, they truly thought she was corrupt. I know of many economic voters for Trump who believe he was a terrible person but "I have a business to run", saying stuff like "If Hillary wins I'll have to layoff half my workers" etc
Also keep in mind Trumps biggest thing on the campaign trail... Immigration. Lots of people wanted him in to stop "illegal" immigration b/c they think it is hurting our economy and jobs, and also because of fear-mongering around Muslims. They are afraid Muslims are going to infiltrate our country and start committing terrorist acts. Racsit? Yes, White Supremacist, I don't think so.
You also have one issue voters with Abortion who will vote Republican just on that issue alone. Also you have Unions supporting Trump if they think his presidency will economically benefit them, and their members following in line.
Also you have all the conflicted Christians and even Christian women writing mind bending justifications on why we should all rally and vote for Trump now, even though he in no way stands for Christian values.
I think what you have is a VERY large portion of the country who are unsympathetic to the issues minorities have in the US today. They aren't openly racist, but instead think racism is over, we have equal rights now and these minorities need to stop complaining so much. Or they simply don't think about minorities, they have their own struggles, they live in middle America where the economy has tanked and not recovered (the majority of economic recovery since 2008 has been in large cities). They feel like they have their own problems, then people say they are all racist on immigration and this does not make them sympathetic to the cause. Most people go on the defensive when attacked, and this just reinforces their resolve to vote for someone like Trump.
This isn't to say "it's the liberals fault Trump won!" etc..but it is much more complicated and nuanced than "Literally half our country are neo-nazi white supremacists". This was the largest rally neo-nazi's have been able to organize and it gathered a few thousand. That is both very disturbing, but also good that they could not get more.
I think we have a lot of people who care about themselves, and not racism as the reason they voted Trump. They did it for self-serving reasons, and showed little care or regard for other people, but not because they want to make this an all white country, or kill all black people. The people who hold those extreme views are in the minority, and characterizing all Trump voters as white supremacists does not actually improve things. It actually pushes some of them to seek shelter among those hate groups.
If the goal of the things said in this thread is to INCREASE the divide in this country, so that we can have a Civil War (which has been called for several times in this thread) that is a very dangerous view. People hoping that half our country is willing to go to war in the name of neo-nazi's is sickening. The amount of death and pain that would be caused by such a war would far outweigh anything going on right now. The scars of war live on for a long time, it was because of WW1 that the German people were willing to support a man like Hitler. Also keep in mind these white supremacists of today are still bitter about things that happened as a result of the Civil War, they still haven't let it go...
Calling for the death penalty to be legal, as well as torture, and promoting the use of torture against all his family members as well (not to extract information mind you, just as a punishment) is also a terrible short sighted view. Legal torture wielded by the very police departments you claim are infiltrated by white supremacists would just result in more blacks being tortured, more innocent blacks being sentenced to death unjustly. Do you not realize what group has suffered the most from the death penalty? Do some research on why we have fought the death penalty and who the innocent victims have been.
We have major problems in this country. Killing, torture, and war are not the solution. Characterizing half the country as literal nazi's is not the solution. These things just create more division and suffering.
There's a difference between defending yourself or someone else from an actual attack and beating the shit out of a Nazi simply for being a Nazi. Which is what most of you guys seem to be ok with.
That dude will think twice before he throws up that salute at people in future.
These people are walking around with weapons, sticks and gears, shouting the most obscene words imaginable to man and threatening the very existence of people. They are now plowing our people with cars who are peacefully demonstrating their fucked up hate. People have every right to invoke self-defense towards these dangerous animals. They are a threat, which they've demonstrated over and over again.
There is no talking to be had. You can't defeat them with hugs and kisses. You should be aware of that by now.
I think there does come a point in extreme situations where everyone condoning the monsters are monsters themselves. We haven't witnessed a situation like that in our lifetimes, but we are now.
Tell the 6 million Jews who died that they should've just waited for the law.
I'm leaning to this stance. Things are getting too out of hand at a large scale. This is becoming crimes against humanity and treason.
Hierophant
Banned
Comrades have shed blood for the cause already, we cannot let their sacrifices be in vain.
Remember the humans who are affected by these monsters.
Save compassion for them.
Remember the humans who are affected by these monsters.
Save compassion for them.
If I saw a nazi preaching in the street, I'd have a very hard time not getting physical. And if I did and was arrested for it, I'd happily take the charge.
Fuck them and everything they stand for.
No need to thank me. This is basic human fucking decency as far as I'm concerned.
Get. Out.
Mass_Pincup
Banned
The law isn't inherently "good" and even if it was you can still work within it and do some nefarious shit.
Nope, no difference. Both are fine.
And what happens when the law and the president have failed you, like this weekend for instance?
So fucking good.This is so good.
Is there a video or are these very well timed photos?
Dark Cloud
Member
This. Humanity should be looking out for each other as brothers and sisters.
It's so sad evil holds the highest positions. It doesn't matter if you convince some Gaffer or someone on a message board that trump is wrong. What matters is those in high federal positions stop talking and put action to their words.
Sure, in a utopia. In this country, today, right now, the President is trying to court these people, delay re-elections, and disenfranchise nonwhite voters.
12-year-old black kids with toy guns don't get the luxury of 'striking first' that you so readily need to wait for.
Don't worry about the white supremacists. They're already well-protected. Wondering why they didn't get run over?
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Sony
Nintendo
You have no clue what you're talking about and it's disgusting that you bring up this point. The Nazi's during WW2 were attacked by the allied AFTER they started killing and violating human rights. There was every reason to kill the Nazi's.
I'm quite concerned that the lot of you seems think that you either commit violence or deal out hugs and kisses. It's not that black and white.
The asshole that ran over the protesters will be judged by the law. What do you think happens if you seek out these Nazi's and attack them? Do you think that will change their views or give them reason to group more and be more aggressive?
Very classy gif in light of the situation (Y).
Box of Kittens
Banned
broncobuster
Banned
For real. Is this all not taught in school anymore? Are people this uninformed and misinformed about Nazi?
Sure, in a utopia. In this country, today, right now, the President is trying to court these people, delay re-elections, and disenfranchise nonwhite voters.
12-year-old black kids with toy guns don't get the luxury of 'striking first' that you so readily need to wait for.
Don't worry about the white supremacists. They're already well-protected. Wondering why they didn't get run over?
He didn't seem to get the same talking points as Spencer, since all Spencer has done is complain about getting roughed up by the "militarized police."
Mammoth Jones
Member
Let's back up a bit: Do you think the KKK and Nazi groups should be categorized as terrorist organizations? Because I do and coincidently that solves the whole "violence against Nazis is wrong!" tripe people bring into the conversation. There. Now we don't need individual violence as we have legal state sanctioned violence to deal with them. They'll get threatened with violence and arrested.
Like any other terrorist organization. Why should they be treated any different. You wouldn't be defending ISIS getting punched in the fucking mouth.
Box of Kittens
Banned
Nazis aren't violent because someone gave them reason to. They're violent because they're Nazis and it's an inherent part of their ideology.
Dark Cloud
Member
You have no problem with ISIS walking around in America with rifles and armor, right?
You seem to be stuck on this. How about instead we get cops to arrest people who openly emulate figures who, judging by the statement at the top, you KNOW are famous for killing people and violating human rights? Alright, go ahead. Cool! Problem solved. Glad you could swing that for us.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
Yep, is there anything else you'd like to say?
Mammoth Jones
Member
Exactly. But they won't get the same treatment because they're White. Disgusting.
Ancient Gray
Member
Most Trump supporters I know that don't condone these acts also note incessantly that correlation is not causation whenever this stuff happens.
Yes, it is. Talking has never achieved anything against Nazis. The only thing that has ever worked against them is overwhelming force.
Doctor_Thomas
Member
And the Nazis have started killing and violating human rights now.
Let's not wait until a few million die before taking action, yeah?
Box of Kittens
Banned
Exactly. President Grant had the right idea. These are terrorist organizations and should be treated as such.
You just proved my argument, if you fucking wait for them to do WHAT THEY SAY THEY WANT TO DO THEN PEOPLE DIE. IT'S NOT A FUCKING MYSTERY WHAT THESE PEOPLE WANT AND BELIEVE.
I don't really give a fuck about changing their minds, I just want them to know that if they don't go back in their fucking holes and keep their garbage to themselves they're gonna fucking regret it.
The last 70 years of white people have been taught about Nazis.. They've also been subconsciously taught their whole lives that being white is the most important thing about them. We see the internal conflict now. So even white terrorists, Nazis included, get a free ride around the devil's advocate carousel.
Nice strawman. Nazis group together and come out in marches. Since the police doesn't seem to be bothered to show up, they are free to roam the streets and attack people however they see fit, and you have the audacity and sit here and say that people don't have the right to defend themselves versus these pigs.
You should be concerned with why you are empathizing with nazis that have no problem with displaying violence instead of the very people that are victims of their hatred.
Sony
Nintendo
That is true. Violence is part of their ideology. That doesn't mean that someone who identifies as a Nazi should be physically attacked for following that ideology. The law comes into play when that person chooses to act on his or her ideology.
Sure I do, as ISIS have spoken out that they want to commit violence against the west. If an ISIS terrortist were walking around with a rifle, it wouldn't be unusused.
I have no problem at all with the arrest of these people by authorities.
Impeccable
Member
... Sony, please.
GhostTrick
Banned
Am I crazy to think that if anyone else ran into a Nazi march with a car, Trump wouldn't have condemned "violence" from "both sides" ? :")
Harry is a hero.
Audioboxer
Member
You're probably better wording a post like this as "I myself wouldn't go out with a bat, knife or gun and aim to hunt down. I wouldn't do this as I'd lose my job, my family and probably face prison. If I didn't get killed in retaliation myself by the oppressors, or by the police/army coming in and disarming me by force.".
That's probably going to have people say okay, fair enough. Just dropping the "violence solves nothing" line with no context will just antagonise people like why you've been quoted 20x times in short succession. If the extremists were to start on mass, shooting, attacking and killing the police (or more like the army) would respond with lethal action which is... a form of violence! Sure, the aim is to try and have it not escalate to that, so that there isn't mass bloodshed (especially civilian on civilian bloodshed), but as I spoke about earlier America is currently failing to handle its problems with extremism via discourse, de-radicalising and state enforced action (arrests/confiscation/jail/community service/restrictions on liberties/watchlists/etc).
When a terrorist attack happens in the UK we don't have lots of people saying they'll be taking to the streets to attack/hurt others because civilian violence is the way forward. I mean if you said something with the intent to be violent on social media in the UK you'd probably have the police arrest you. What we do have though is a government who has radical watch lists, monitoring, arrests for extremist preaching/calls for violence and so on. All of that helps the public believe they are safe. Or at least it lets the public think the Government is at least making an effort to tackle extremism and to keep people safe.
So yeah, to me it can be a bit jarring when tens if not hundreds of posts across multiple topics are calling for civilian enforced violence. The UK isn't the US though, and a lot of unrest in America is happening because the Government is failing the people. Even our Conservative government as much as I criticize them does at least say a lot of the right things around terrorism, and you wouldn't be seeing neo-Nazis walking around with assault rifles in the UK. Ever. In America you currently are! A lot of people on forums are just blowing off steam too, and usually, it's quite clear to see when that is the case. As it's often quite clear too when people are talking about violence in general (lots of WW2 posts), rather than "I myself am going to be violent". Even in America with the later, you have to be careful as intent to cause harm/violence is just about the only thing not covered under the 1st amendment.
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