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[KeithFranklin]

So how is this any different then what MS is doing? How can Sony condem them yet do the exact same thing? Now I'm super confused.

Think they are just pushing back at Sony for being so high and mighty before the 2 PS3 sku's were announced.

 

[Mmmkay]

Considering the PS2 had VGA output capability - it certainly wouldn't be surprising.

Like I said earlier, they neeeeed to wire in pins for Horizontal and Vertical Sync this time, for it to be taken seriously.

 

[Raistlin]

Like I said earlier, they neeeeed to wire in pins for Horizontal and Vertical Sync this time, for it to be taken seriously.

This is true.


Though I've always wondered ... does anyone know whether many HDTV's with VGA inputs synch-on-green?

I've never tried hooking up my PS2 to one.

 

[Stinkles]

This is true.


Though I've always wondered ... does anyone know whether many HDTV's with VGA inputs synch-on-green?

My Philips did. Most convenient. I should try the VGA-component cable with my Samsung. I'm sorta spazzing on how I need to do that. Need female to male VGA adapter I guess. I will figure it out at home and report back.

 

[thirty]

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

UMMMM....yeah i do actually. you just dont understand. The point i'm trying to make is that on a TV less than 50 inches wether its 720p or 1080i or 1080p theres not going to be a huge leap between the 3 because the set you're viewing on is too small to see the details. I guess all the media outlets that have stated that BR and HD DVD arent some huge leap unless you are viewing on a larger set are all wrong too. right? :lol

 

[monkeymagic]

UMMMM....yeah i do actually. you just dont understand. The point i'm trying to make is that on a TV less than 50 inches wether its 720p or 1080i or 1080p theres not going to be a huge leap between the 3 because the set you're viewing on is too small to see the details. I guess all the media outlets that have stated that BR and HD DVD arent some huge leap unless you are viewing on a larger set are all wrong too. right?

You're talking about film/video.

With computer graphics the difference between 720p and 1080p is easily perceptible - just try running any PC game in x720 and x1080 on a 19"+ monitor and you'll see.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

:lol

Umm, we don't know whether Sony will release a VGA cable ... so you're jumping the gun a bit.


Considering the PS2 had VGA output capability - it certainly wouldn't be surprising.

Wait, when did Sony release an official VGA cable for the PS2?

 

[PleoMax]

You're talking about film/video.

With computer graphics the difference between 720p and 1080p is easily perceptible - just try running any PC game in x720 and x1080 on a 19"+ monitor and you'll see.

Yeah i don't doubt it is, the problem is....most(like 99.9% of the consoles owners) ppl will never know, hell i don't know, because my LCD can't go that high, and neither do my 2 HD TVS that i have in home, so its one of those features that Sony and MS can stick in the ass.

 

[thirty]

You're talking about film/video.

With computer graphics the difference between 720p and 1080p is easily perceptible - just try running any PC game in x720 and x1080 on a 19"+ monitor and you'll see.

please. the way PC games work with monitors compared to what is seen with consoles and TVs vastly different.

 

[Raistlin]

UMMMM....yeah i do actually. you just dont understand. The point i'm trying to make is that on a TV less than 50 inches wether its 720p or 1080i or 1080p theres not going to be a huge leap between the 3 because the set you're viewing on is too small to see the details.

Obviously viewing distance comes into play here. ... and most people I know with smallish HDTV's in say, there bedroom ... tend to view it from pretty damn close.

 

[monkeymagic]

please. the way PC games work with monitors compared to what is seen with consoles is and TVs vastly different.

You obviously don't own an HDTV.

 

[thirty]

Obviously viewing distance comes into play here. ... and most people I know with smallish HDTV's in say, there bedroom ... tend to view it from pretty damn close.

:lol i give up.

You obviously don't own an HDTV

ummm...i do actually. back when i used to play quake 3 in 640x480 or 800x600 on a monitor its was WAY different because since the monitor could do 1280x720 or whatever it is, it would make that 640 image look HUGE and blurry. bumping it to the correct resolution that filled the screen properly gave everything its correct size in relation to the actual rez of the screen and the textures and everything were sharper. Going from 720p to 1080i to 1080p on a TV doesnt have that same impact because you're already in HD resolutions. You're falling for the HD and "beyond" HD hype. its all the same.

 

[HokieJoe]

That wasn't what your question was asking. You were asking about the availability of 1080p in today's market. If you want to turn this into a debate about 1080p's place in next-gen gaming, then by all means, discuss it. But that wasn't what the post I quoted was asking. The industry tells people where they're going, not the other way around, btw.

Oh, and if HD adoption is so slow, then it stands to reason that those with 720p NOW, will be in the minority of the 1080p HD world, no?

Uhh, no. 1080p adoption will be lucky to overtake 720p/1080i adoption in three+ years, much less next year. Look, 720p/1080i adoption has been slow thus far. No where near as prolific as say, DVD's. The reasons for this are numerous, but the biggest two are:

1) Price

2) Lack of content

What will happen is that 1080p displays will push the price of 720p/1080i, or sub 1080p displays down into the budget of mainstream consumers. 1080p will be more of a premium product.

 

[Raistlin]

Wait, when did Sony release an official VGA cable for the PS2?

They didn't commercially, since not all games were mandated to be progressive.

It came with the PS2 Linux Kit however.

 

[HokieJoe]

Fox downscales most, if not all, of their broadcasts to 540p.

Fox and ABC broadcast in 720p. NBC and CBS broadcast in 1080i.

http://pro.jvc.com/pro/pr/2001/foxdig.htm

 

[HokieJoe]

So is 1080p meaningless again?

For games, yes, it's essentially meaningless.

 

[Raistlin]

:lol i give up.

Why? Because you're wrong? :lol




I didn't read your previous comments - I was commenting specifcally to the post I quoted - so I don't know if you've already addressed this.

So I'm asking, are you disregarding how viewing distance relates to the eye's ability to resolve pixel density for a given screen size and resolution?

 

[Raistlin]

Uhh, no. 1080p adoption will be lucky to overtake 720p/1080i adoption in three+ years, much less next year. Look, 720p/1080i adoption has been slow thus far. No where near as prolific as say, DVD's. The reasons for this are numerous, but the biggest two are:

1) Price

2) Lack of content

What will happen is that 1080p displays will push the price of 720p/1080i, or sub 1080p displays down into the budget of mainstream consumers. 1080p will be more of a premium product.

Whether it overtakes 720p/1080i displays in 3+ years is not important.

What is important is whether or not there is a sufficient installed base of 1080p displays in the gaming community to make such console output more than a niche market this gen.

 

[Nerevar]

You're talking about film/video.

With computer graphics the difference between 720p and 1080p is easily perceptible - just try running any PC game in x720 and x1080 on a 19"+ monitor and you'll see.

the distance you sit from the monitor makes a huge difference in perceivable resolution. Most people sit not much farther than a couple feet from their computer monitor, whereas they sit 10 feet or farther from their television. The general rule of thumb you'll find in any buying guide is that 1080p is a worthless investment on anything under 50".

Whether it's film, TV, or computer images, it doesn't matter - the difference in resolution is simply a function of the size of the screen and the distance you sit from it.

edit: god damn so many spelling / grammar mistakes

 

[shpankey]

monkey's been on a one man mission of hate for far, far too long here (and I don't mean just this thread). please dude... enough already. you come off as a fricken psycho fanboy. :/

 

[Raistlin]

For games, yes, it's essentially meaningless.

Why?

 

[Big Takeover]

Will you be able to stream HD content from Windows Media Center Edition to the 360 in 1080P.

Thats all I would care about since I am sitting out the HD-DVD/BluRay battle in favor of media stored on a server.

My devices for this are hardwired 100MB Ethernet. Getting one megaserver and letting TV's all over the house access it with XBOX 360's. Sick and tired of my kids moving DVD's around the house or recording something with the TIVO downstairs when my wife and I want to watch it up stairs before we go to bed.

Wireless is for sitting on the couch with my laptop.

You'll be fine on the "how", it's the "what" which is the problem. Hidef tv (720p/1080i), dvds, won't be a problem with your network. 1080p will need a disk, or hardware+service/software.

By ruling out disks, you'll need to rely on MS (or partnership) with providing your 1080p content. At least for the foreseeable future.

Speaking just about the MCE (or Vista)/360 combo of course.

 

[The Faceless Master]

:lol

Umm, we don't know whether Sony will release a VGA cable ... so you're jumping the gun a bit.


Considering the PS2 had VGA output capability - it certainly wouldn't be surprising.

so because we don't know if they will release it, we should assume they will instead of assuming they won't?

 

[HokieJoe]

Whether it overtakes 720p/1080i displays in 3+ years is not important.

What is important is whether or not there is a sufficient installed base of 1080p displays in the gaming community to make such console output more than a niche market this gen.

The PS2 didn't sell 100 million consoles to a niche market though, and I don't think either console can bank their success on whether 1080p displays will be ubiquitous. Most games will target 720p because that will be the heart of their demographic. Even that's being generous when one talks about what J6P will buy.

 

[HokieJoe]

Why?

See my post above. The heart of the market will be 720p displays IMO. Why would developers waste their time developing games at a resolution that most won't even be able to take advantage of? EDIT* I just don't see it personally.


*Not upscaling dammit 1080p > 720p

 

[thirty]

the distance you sit from the monitor makes a huge difference in perceivable resolution. Most people sit not much farther than a couple feet from their TV monitor, whereas they sit 10 feet or farther from their television. The general rule of thumb you'll find in any buying guide is that 1080p is a worthless investment on anything under 50".

Whether it's film, TV, or computer images, it doesn't matter - the difference in resolution is simply a function of the size of the screen and the distance you sit from it.

for the love of god THANK YOU. i dont see why its so hard for people to understand. We've already made the jump from SD to HD. that was a MAJOR leap. just like flipping the rez from 640x480 to 1280x720 on a PC game. This jumping within HD is too much hype and too little actual meaning. HD DVD, BR and HD gaming will all play fine in HD no matter what the HD res(well starting at atleast 720p). they'll all look amazing compared to SD. theres no need for this "beyond hd" crap sony is pushing. only reason MS is doing it is so their machine doesnt seem inferior on the bullet points. in the end as of now its meaningless and will be for atleast another 5-10 years.

 

[Warm Machine]

theres no need for this "beyond hd" crap sony is pushing.

I agree. That slogan ****ing muddies the waters and confuses the shit out of people. I had a guy at work here who was told by a Future Shop employee that Sony's blu ray was higher res than anything else out there and higher than high definition.

 

[Raistlin]

so because we don't know if they will release it, we should assume they will instead of assuming they won't?

No ... I'm saying don't assume anything, since they haven't commented on it.

No one has directly asked them so far, which pisses me off. The Q&A session with Ken K. after the conference would have been a perfect time to do so.

 

[Raistlin]

The PS2 didn't sell 100 million consoles to a niche market though, and I don't think either console can bank their success on whether 1080p displays will be ubiquitous. Most games will target 720p because that will be the heart of their demographic. Even that's being generous when one talks about what J6P will buy.

I'm not sure what are you even talking about? How was this inferred from what I said?

 

[Raistlin]

for the love of god THANK YOU. i dont see why its so hard for people to understand. We've already made the jump from SD to HD. that was a MAJOR leap. just like flipping the rez from 640x480 to 1280x720 on a PC game.

Ummm ... the pixel density increase going from 720p to 1080p is the same as going from 480p to 720p. In each case, it's 1.5x in both horizontal and vertical resolution :lol As Atari used to say ... 'do the math'.


Just because there hasn't been much in the way of worthwhile content to demonstrate the increase, that doesn't mean the tech isn't worthwhile.

 

[monkeymagic]

/thread

This needs updating

 

[Raistlin]

:lol

HDMI for all PS3's!!!!!!!!11!

 

[Shogmaster]

This needs updating

DONE AND DONE

Hopefully I'm done tweeking this chart, right Sony and MS? Right? I'm gonna leave it alone now. It's safe, right? ........You sure?

 

[Stinkles]

This needs updating

Monkey, would you swap HDMI tard pack for sex with the Fantanas, yes or no?

Also, the other thread is too fappy right now, but what exactly is missing from the former tard pack apart from 40 gigs?

 

[PhatSaqs]

Monkey, would you swap HDMI tard pack for sex with the Fantanas, yes or no?

Also, the other thread is too fappy right now, but what exactly is missing from the former tard pack apart from 40 gigs?

WiFi and mem card slots AFAIK.

 

[Shogmaster]

Monkey, would you swap HDMI tard pack for sex with the Fantanas, yes or no?

Also, the other thread is too fappy right now, but what exactly is missing from the former tard pack apart from 40 gigs?

Wifi and mem card readers (which most would care less about since USB card readers are like $20).

 

[Stinkles]

Wifi and mem card readers (which most would care less about since USB card readers are like $20).

I don't give a shit about mem card readers but wifi would have been nice. My wireless bridge is 802b :-(

 

[Raistlin]

DONE AND DONE

Hopefully I'm done tweeking this chart, right Sony and MS? Right? I'm gonna leave it alone now. It's safe, right? ........You sure?

Well ... Sony hasn't discussed VGA yet ... so who knows





(BTW - the image doesn't seem to be coming up)

 

[monkeymagic]

DONE AND DONE

Hopefully I'm done tweeking this chart, right Sony and MS? Right? I'm gonna leave it alone now. It's safe, right? ........You sure?

Well just pray Sony doesn't release a VGA cable for PS3 :lol

 

[Stinkles]

Well just pray Sony doesn't release a VGA cable for PS3 :lol

Actually, let's hope they do. And answer the question - Fantana sex party or HDMI tard pack?

 

[Shogmaster]

(BTW - the image doesn't seem to be coming up)

Should be up. I checked with another browser and it's visible.

 

[HokieJoe]

I'm not sure what are you even talking about? How was this inferred from what I said?

I thought you were making the argument that 1080p only needs a niche to succeed? If that's the case, I disagree. I think it will need more than our heretofore argued, but not really defined, niche, for developers to give a damn about it for the majority of games.

If that's not the case, sorry for the confusion.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Should be up. I checked with another browser and it's visible.

It's up for me.

 

[CrapSandwich]

Isn't the Premium the new Tard pack, then? Seems like an awful value for how much extra you pay.

 

[Stinkles]

Isn't the Premium the new Tard pack, then? Seems like an awful value for how much extra you pay.

Wait, what are you talking about? PS3 or 360? Both premiums offer value over the tards. Wifi and 40gigs on PS3, HDD, component and headset on premium.

 

[Raistlin]

Wait, what are you talking about? PS3 or 360? Both premiums offer value over the tards. Wifi and 40gigs on PS3, HDD, component and headset on premium.

Don't forget card readers for PS3 premium.

 

[Shogmaster]

shog! welcome back.

and yes, that should be required material in every one of these stupid threads.

Oop! I missed this post. Thanks man. It was just a love tap day ban. :lol

 

[GhaleonEB]

Oop! I missed this post. Thanks man. It was just a love tap day ban. :lol

I think the term is "warning". :lol

 

[Shogmaster]

I think the term is "warning". :lol

My thingy is still Green (neutral).