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Bar MAFIA |OT| There's Gonna Be Shots

O

Ourobolus

Banned
timetokill said:
I want to call out dragonz for picking on me but I can't blame her, she's using MOSTLY the same rationale for me picking StackpoleH, though she posted less than I have so dragonz probably forgot she even existed. ;)
Click to expand...

what rationale is that, and why should we trust you over stackpole?
 
O

Ourobolus

Banned
kingkitty said:
instant negative scum vibes of day 1
dusk - as i said earlier, he could be scum trying to stretch truth in order to make hyper worse

hyper - as i said earlier, overeager, scum trying to gain townie trust? or maybe he's just a townie trying to be helpful, but i'm going to lean on how my body feels, and it's negative enough that he should stay in the scum pile

if dusk flips scum, i would prob feel a little better about hyper, and vice versa. altho there's always a chance this is some scumbro play where scumDusk pinches scumHyper in public in order to mask their secret connection.

slight negative vibes that fermented over the course of day 1
splinter - i asked "y not" to his "im not going to say anything about dragonz yet", and he ignored it. therefore i want him dead and buried.

a human becoming - his last post was about how the early goings is full of "meaningless" mental gymnastics. hints that he's not hyped reading back 200 posts. talks about how not editing is a pain. complains about the spacing of his answers. all his posts give off this demotivated vibe. maybe scum going for an early frustrated townie angle? or maybe i'm just looking too hard. these eyes remain open.

exodu - as others mentioned, seems like he's been cruising on the fluff lane a bit too much

lean townies of day 1
retroid - i dunno how long scumtroid would want to keep this no-lynch convo going, or mentioning how role claiming on day 1 makes things exciting.

catovaca - i am okay with how he's poking and prodding, active and contributive
Click to expand...

actually, meant to ask

and yes, i am tunneling on D1 because why not

what do you think about batsnacks/mattyg?
 
T

timetokill

Banned
Ourobolus said:
what rationale is that, and why should we trust you over stackpole?
Click to expand...

Not saying you should, but I listed my reasons for voting StackpoleH when I voted for her. Basically that she hasn't posted much of anything, her post was contradictory which made it seem like she was trying to not ruffle any feathers, and I was suspicious of her wanting to do a no lynch on Day 1. It just seems counterproductive to not lynch on day 1, because it seems like it mostly benefits scum.
 
S

StackpoleH

Member
A few people have voted for me based on my post in which I said that "people expect a lot of discussion and boring day one." Believe it or not, that was supposed to read "a lot of discussion and voting," which autocorrected to "boring." This is why I shouldn't post from mobile.

I have been a little contradictory on whether I think Day 1 is useful or not. I guess I think it can often be interesting reading, and lead to useful analysis later on, but I don't think anyone can have really firm reads D1 as mafia just usually don't slip up that much.

So, that said, here is my extremely tentative reads list:

Town:
-Nin. He posted once to say hi, disappeared for a long period of time, then appeared with a fun but light on substance post. Mafia usual tries to perform town a lot harder than Nin is doing, especially as they're policed by their teammates.
-Splinter. He's done a lot to drive discussion without being showy about it.
-Catvoca. Posts just read very earnest to me.
-Barrylocke. Like some of his analysis.

Mafia:
-Dusk Soldier. The way he went after hyper for his questions wasn't suspicious to me, but the way he didn't pursue it further was. Like he'd been warned privately to back off. He didn't say that Hyper had resolved his suspicions; he didn't try to drum up further votes. Just let it go.

The big posters like Hyper and Dragonz I honestly find harder to read.

Of course all of this is still barely preliminary. But I did say I would vote if I found someone even slightly suspicious, so:

Vote: Dusk Soldier

But I will return to advocating for a non-lynch if DS shows up and defends himself adequately. Like I said before, I'm not necessarily against a lynch today. I'm just against assuming that we MUST lynch someone. Everyone's talking about getting info from the voting patterns, but I really don't see how that works since town has no information and mafia can claim to have no information.

Alice: Bob, why did you vote for Carl day 1 when Carl was the cop/doctor?
Bob: I flipped a coin.

Totally valid answer! Wouldn't it have been better to have saved Carl from lynching than to have the record of Bob's vote when the record isn't used for anything?
 
O

Ourobolus

Banned
StackpoleH said:
A few people have voted for me based on my post in which I said that "people expect a lot of discussion and boring day one." Believe it or not, that was supposed to read "a lot of discussion and voting," which autocorrected to "boring." This is why I shouldn't post from mobile.
Click to expand...

fair enough

StackpoleH said:
I have been a little contradictory on whether I think Day 1 is useful or not. I guess I think it can often be interesting reading, and lead to useful analysis later on, but I don't think anyone can have really firm reads D1 as mafia just usually don't slip up that much.
Click to expand...

D1 is not useful on D1. I'll be the first to admit that. It's useful thereafter, trying to see how and if scum tried to distance themselves from their teammates early on (assuming we lynch scum at some point)

So, that said, here is my extremely tentative reads list:

StackpoleH said:
Town:
-Nin. He posted once to say hi, disappeared for a long period of time, then appeared with a fun but light on substance post. Mafia usual tries to perform town a lot harder than Nin is doing, especially as they're policed by their teammates.
-Splinter. He's done a lot to drive discussion without being showy about it.
-Catvoca. Posts just read very earnest to me.
-Barrylocke. Like some of his analysis.
Click to expand...

that hurts :'(

StackpoleH said:
Mafia:
-Dusk Soldier. The way he went after hyper for his questions wasn't suspicious to me, but the way he didn't pursue it further was. Like he'd been warned privately to back off. He didn't say that Hyper had resolved his suspicions; he didn't try to drum up further votes. Just let it go.
Click to expand...
just the one?

StackpoleH said:
But I will return to advocating for a non-lynch if DS shows up and defends himself adequately. Like I said before, I'm not necessarily against a lynch today. I'm just against assuming that we MUST lynch someone. Everyone's talking about getting info from the voting patterns, but I really don't see how that works since town has no information and mafia can claim to have no information.

Alice: Bob, why did you vote for Carl day 1 when Carl was the cop/doctor?
Bob: I flipped a coin.

Totally valid answer! Wouldn't it have been better to have saved Carl from lynching than to have the record of Bob's vote when the record isn't used for anything?
Click to expand...

i'll ask you the same question i've asked others - what information can you possibly glean from a no lynch, when there is zero concrete information given because there is no flip?
 
D

Dusk Soldier

Member
StackpoleH said:
But I will return to advocating for a non-lynch if DS shows up and defends himself adequately. Like I said before, I'm not necessarily against a lynch today. I'm just against assuming that we MUST lynch someone. Everyone's talking about getting info from the voting patterns, but I really don't see how that works since town has no information and mafia can claim to have no information.

Alice: Bob, why did you vote for Carl day 1 when Carl was the cop/doctor?
Bob: I flipped a coin.

Totally valid answer! Wouldn't it have been better to have saved Carl from lynching than to have the record of Bob's vote when the record isn't used for anything?
Click to expand...

To be honest stackpoleH, I'm not sure what you expect from me here. There was no way I was going to build a convincing case to get Hyper lynched based on his D1 posts. There's still 3 days left of voting.

I put a vote on him to show that I was serious in my suspicions of his play.
 
S

StackpoleH

Member
Ourobolus said:
fair enough

i'll ask you the same question i've asked others - what information can you possibly glean from a no lynch, when there is zero concrete information given because there is no flip?
Click to expand...

Well, not much information. That's true enough. The problem is that I don't think you gain much information from a day one lynch either-- if the day one lynch is guaranteed. The advantage of no lynching (not as a default but as an option if nothing particularly suspicious happens) is that we don't lynch a townie. The next day, PRs may have info which will influence their behavior, and we will have the night kill to go off for definitive information.

Dusk Soldier said:
To be honest stackpoleH, I'm not sure what you expect from me here. There was no way I was going to build a convincing case to get Hyper lynched based on his D1 posts. There's still 3 days left of voting.

I put a vote on him to show that I was serious in my suspicions of his play.
Click to expand...

OK, but this doesn't really make sense to me. There was no convincing case to be made, but you had serious suspicions. The pattern of your behavior just doesn't fit.
 
R

Retroid

Member
I was just thinking about something that could be an interesting alternative. What if we all agreed to mass pledge to vote at the same time? As in, we don't actually cast our votes, but instead say who we will vote for at the same time. It could eliminate a day one bandwagon and cause everyone to make their own decision. Of course, some people might get left out because of time zone differences, but maybe we could find a time to maximize the number of people who could participate?
 
O

Ourobolus

Banned
StackpoleH said:
Well, not much information. That's true enough. The problem is that I don't think you gain much information from a day one lynch either-- if the day one lynch is guaranteed. The advantage of no lynching (not as a default but as an option if nothing particularly suspicious happens) is that we don't lynch a townie. The next day, PRs may have info which will influence their behavior, and we will have the night kill to go off for definitive information.
Click to expand...

sure, we don't lynch a townie

but let's say that all the conversation centered around me rather than, say, Barry

I don't die

what does that tell you

lynches are both bad and good for town
 
O

Ourobolus

Banned
Retroid said:
I was just thinking about something that could be an interesting alternative. What if we all agreed to mass pledge to vote at the same time? As in, we don't actually cast our votes, but instead say who we will vote for at the same time. It could eliminate a day one bandwagon and cause everyone to make their own decision. Of course, some people might get left out because of time zone differences, but maybe we could find a time to maximize the number of people who could participate?
Click to expand...

how is that any different than how normal voting works

VOTE: Barry - cause he smells funny

CTRL-V VOTE:Barry - cause he smells funny
 
K

Kawl_USC

Member
I've got a rousing case of the hiccups after a post softball victory round or 5 at the pub.

Play on players.

Wingardium leviosa.
 
K

Kawl_USC

Member
EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY TAR-MIRIEL [F] WILL BE REPLACING A HUMAN BECOMING.

PLEASE WELCOME HER WITH OPEN ARMS AS SHE IS A NEWCOMER TO OUR COMMUNITY.

*HICCUP*
 
D

Dusk Soldier

Member
Retroid said:
I was just thinking about something that could be an interesting alternative. What if we all agreed to mass pledge to vote at the same time? As in, we don't actually cast our votes, but instead say who we will vote for at the same time. It could eliminate a day one bandwagon and cause everyone to make their own decision. Of course, some people might get left out because of time zone differences, but maybe we could find a time to maximize the number of people who could participate?
Click to expand...

I think this would be impossible to organise. Just accept that someone is getting lynched at the end of the day phase, and that they will most likely be town. And hopefully two townies dieing tonight will leave behind some clues.

StackpoleH said:
OK, but this doesn't really make sense to me. There was no convincing case to be made, but you had serious suspicions. The pattern of your behavior just doesn't fit.
Click to expand...

You are way overthinking this. And trying to make my actions fit a narrative.

Hyper's opening post had 3 main objectives.

i. Establish himself as being helpful and trustworthy. Which he did by posting a bunch of beginner tips.

ii. Get a resume of our playing experience. His initial question in his questionnaire asks us to list our past gafia games, making it easy for him to go back and look up our playing styles and tendancies.

iii. Get us to state our intentions going forward. If you look at the final 3 questions in his questionnaire, you'll notice that it's basically the same question being asked in 3 different ways. "What are your intentions going forward in this game?" He even reiterates after the point that he want's answers specifically to questions 2,3 & 4.

He's trying to get a read on each of our playing styles, and trying to see if he can match that up with how he thinks the various roles in the game would play.

Admittedly that doesn't really prove or disprove his alignment. But his actions were still very calculating, and there's nothing wrong with calling that out.
 
A

AbsolutBro

Member
Or we could just vote normally. This doesn't have to be that complicated. Would be really great to know if Crab is going to play, or is getting poked for replacement.
 
K

Kawl_USC

Member
AbsolutBro said:
Or we could just vote normally. This doesn't have to be that complicated. Would be really great to know if Crab is going to play, or is getting poked for replacement.
Click to expand...

Crab has informed the game runners that he may be busy until Saturday. Normal activity is expected past that point.
 
S

StackpoleH

Member
Welcome Tar-Miriel!

Dusk Soldier said:
You are way overthinking this. And trying to make my actions fit a narrative.

Hyper's opening post had 3 main objectives.

i. Establish himself as being helpful and trustworthy. Which he did by posting a bunch of beginner tips.

ii. Get a resume of our playing experience. His initial question in his questionnaire asks us to list our past gafia games, making it easy for him to go back and look up our playing styles and tendancies.

iii. Get us to state our intentions going forward. If you look at the final 3 questions in his questionnaire, you'll notice that it's basically the same question being asked in 3 different ways. "What are your intentions going forward in this game?" He even reiterates after the point that he want's answers specifically to questions 2,3 & 4.

He's trying to get a read on each of our playing styles, and trying to see if he can match that up with how he thinks the various roles in the game would play.

Admittedly that doesn't really prove or disprove his alignment. But his actions were still very calculating, and there's nothing wrong with calling that out.
Click to expand...

To be clear, I was quoting you when I said there was no convincing case to be made. That was your stated reasoning for not pursuing the issue. I think your arguments here make a lot of sense, but I already thought it made sense that you were suspicious of hyperactivity. The suspicious part was that you let it drop.

I agree that trying to vote at the same time is an exercise in futility. Just will not work on a message board format.
 
H

Hyperactivity

Banned
Hi guys! Gonna go eat and then I'll be here to answer AAALLLL the stuff that got posted

Oh, and while it's not really a timezone issue, it is a sleep cycle issue, so think of me as European for the time being

WhereAreMahDragonz said:
Wait, those were his actual reasons? I thought they were just observations on his part, not the explanation behind his vote. Makes even less sense to me now but oh well.

I liked his questions and they did open up a lot of discussion, so I'm not trying to fault him, I just meant it more in the context of the vote + questions together. I didn't explain it well, sorry.



You make a good point. I will still need to see more from him before he gets my vote or lack thereof, but either way I don't think he's town.
Click to expand...

Nope, reasons were that I know you had played a game before (going for newbies for pressure is boring), I had never been a game with you, and based on the thread ebfore game start, you would be pretty active, so it wouldn't be like my vote for Crab where I have to wait forever for a response
 
H

Hyperactivity

Banned
Dusk Soldier said:
I think this would be impossible to organise. Just accept that someone is getting lynched at the end of the day phase, and that they will most likely be town. And hopefully two townies dieing tonight will leave behind some clues.



You are way overthinking this. And trying to make my actions fit a narrative.

Hyper's opening post had 3 main objectives.

i. Establish himself as being helpful and trustworthy. Which he did by posting a bunch of beginner tips.

ii. Get a resume of our playing experience. His initial question in his questionnaire asks us to list our past gafia games, making it easy for him to go back and look up our playing styles and tendancies.

iii. Get us to state our intentions going forward. If you look at the final 3 questions in his questionnaire, you'll notice that it's basically the same question being asked in 3 different ways. "What are your intentions going forward in this game?" He even reiterates after the point that he want's answers specifically to questions 2,3 & 4.

He's trying to get a read on each of our playing styles, and trying to see if he can match that up with how he thinks the various roles in the game would play.

Admittedly that doesn't really prove or disprove his alignment. But his actions were still very calculating, and there's nothing wrong with calling that out.
Click to expand...

You may have noticed, but the only answer I've really grilled people on was question 4.

The others were honestly meant for Wherearemahdragonz (I stated before that the reason I initially didn't answer them is because of this) and the newer players. I've read most of the games before hand, I at least have an idea when it comes to most of you what your playstyle is like

Nah, my opening opening post was meant to establish that I wanted the day 1 here to actually be useful, and make sure that I got everyone talking.

In any case, I haven't gotten down to an actual reads list, but right now I think the most suspicious people will be the ones who contribute or post, but are content to let the conversation go however it pleases. This doesn't mean people who posted fluff, I'm talking about the people who post, oftentimes substantially, but never do or say anything such that attention gets directed towards them. This means many of their statements would be considered "safe", but at the same time, if it's not too controversial, they will give their honest opinion, because they want to avoid being accused of that

Essentially, look at the higher activity posters and pick out people who haven't really been focused on, and then look at their posts and decide from there
 
S

*Splinter

Member
Retroid is looking Towny now. I think he plays similarly as town and scum - especially D1, but this post in particular makes me lean town on him:

Retroid said:
Anyone who makes read lists day one. /s (Although I do think they are a bit... I would know... felt forced into one last game)

If I had to pick, right now it would be you. I don't think you are really contributing much that will be useful down the road. (This just reflects my feelings towards the first day).
Click to expand...
The bolded seems genuinely received to not have scum teammates relying on him - and this is the overall feel I get from his posts.



Timeaisis posts a lot of nothing and hasn't gotten much flak for it yet. Leaning scum there


Dusk Soldier was very aggressive early on with Hyper, but as far as I remember that's just how he plays, so it never seemed that suspect to me. That's a null read for now.



I don't think Exodu5 or Euphemism have answered my questions yet. Disappointing.
 
S

*Splinter

Member
Scum
WhereAreMahDragonz
Exodu5
Timeaisis
Barrylocke

Town
Batsnacks
Catvoca
Retroid
Timetokill
Kingkitty


Haven't mentioned ttk or kk yet.

Timetokill is a gut read I guess, at least I can't think of anything specific. His posts just come across as quite relaxed without being disengaged.

The kingkitty town reading bandwagon was weird as fuck, and depending on which of those people flip scum I might want to follow up by lynching kitty himself. In fairness he does seem more Towny than not (although always a hard read for me, least confident on this one).
 
S

*Splinter

Member
*Splinter said:
So Dragonz+Exoduf scum, good start
Click to expand...

WhereAreMahDragonz said:
Exodu5 because he only has one post of note. I also kind of agree with Time's post of him wasting the time he does have. I understand being busy, but why not make it count when you DO have the opportunity? That being said, I don't necessarily think lynching him is a good move, because he hasn't done anything as blatantly scummy as Dusk.
Click to expand...
To be honest I've been cooling on Dragonz as scum, but this post here is very scum-buddyish. If one of Dragonz/Exo flips scum I would be looking very closely at the other.
 
N

nin1000

Banned
batsnacks said:
And Time's post got ignored. It could have been a good opportunity for mafia to throw a little more shade on a town TheExodu5.
Click to expand...

Nice meta right here. If we tend to believe that, it would mean that he is in a position where he has Nothing to fear since his partners won't be throwing shade at someone who is not here atm.

Nice line of thought.
 
S

*Splinter

Member
Forgot to mention, but I feel like Catvoca repeats me a lot. Could just be coincidence, still slightly town leaning on him but less so than before.
 
C

cabot

Member
Good morning, friendos.

I've taken time out of my busy schedule managing Hibernian on my iPad working to bring you a vote count.

wherearemahdragonz (1)
hyperactivity 205 (335)
barrylocke 383

mattyg (1)
batsnacks 222
ourobolus 245 (300)

hyperactivity (3)
kingkitty 224 (474)
dusk soldier 253
a human becoming 264 (will adjust when new blood changes vote)
timeaisis 459

batsnacks (0)
ourobolus 300 (417)
ourobolus 433 (490)

ourobolus (1)
salvapot 327
hyperactivity 335 (360)

crab (1)
hyperactivity 360

theexodu5 (0)
barrylocke 377 (383)

stackpoleh (1)
ourobolus 417 (433)
timetokill 472

dusk soldier (2)
kingkitty 474
stackpoleh 557

timeaisis (1)
ourobolus 490

12 votes for majority.

gre_1465678800.png




I bossed the first season, not even Rangers got promoted the idiots. Falkirk and I went up, undefeated in 24 games, started the Scottish premership with a win at Inverness. We good, we good.

Oh right, is this thing still on?
 
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