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Monkey chants aimed at black players in Krakow for Euro 2012
- Thread starter giga
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entremet
Member
Your loss. Europe is amazing and went to various countries, including Spain, which gets a bad rap for racism, and everyone was kind and decent.
America, while more sensitive about race, still has its own issues. The Trayvon Martin case and other injustices prove that pretty easily.
I just think it's fucking stupid that you all go 'whelp, fuck Europe'. It's not the same as America. It's different countries. It's like saying every African or Asian country is the same. China and Pakistan? The same! Egypt and Zimbabwe? The same!
There's obviously a huge problem with racism in some countries but from a very very small minority. Tarring every country with the same brush is ignorant, no matter where you're from.
Welcome to being an American thats judged by somebody outside our country. We're all ignorant, racist, fat-asses that wear stars and stripes and shoot guns in the air when our football team scores a touchdown.
I'm not usually one to get all worked up about victim persecution and all, but its definitely worth making the very timely point that not ALL Americans are the way a lot of you think we are, just like all Polish people aren't racists and neither are all Europeans.
But it's only Americans making the generalisations here. Fair play to you for saying what you say in the last sentence, but for everyone else to obviously be American and be persecuted like you are and still to say fucking stupid stuff about the entirety of Europe, it's perplexing.
Kitschkraft
Member
Really? Because this doesn't go on in the United States. I couldn't imagine "groups of hundreds" making monkey chants at Lebron James or Michael Vick, and these guys are amongst the most disliked athletes.
This holds true up at the highest level in places like Madison Square Garden, down to the lowest level high school football game.
What a load of shit. I hope black players stand together and ruin this fucking tournament. Fuck UEFA, fuck FIFA, fuck these racist backwards people.
Sure, let racist be racist, and let people walk the fuck off when they want.
FutureZombie
Banned
Saying that this would never happen in America does not mean I'm saying all Europeans are racist. But I am saying that North America is the least racist continent. Something like this is unthinkable in NA. Again, that doesn't mean all Europeans are racist.
Broder Salsa
Banned
Embarrassing polish fans and embarrassing thread, although Bay just seems to try and troll as much as possible.
Least racist? I don't think so. Different brand of racism sure.
Fair enough. Of anybody, it should be Americans that know best not to generalize other people for this sort of thing. I think some people are posting slightly disengenuious for reasons I stated, though. But instead of coming to their defense(Polish/Europeans in general), they are just trying to 'get back' or are enjoying the attention of another country tasting the same dish we're served regularly.
Ignis Fatuus
Banned
There is a very distinct cultural difference concerning racism in Europe versus racism in America, and anyone who's spent time on both continents ought to have noticed it. I already specified that I'm talking about European racists so I'm not sure why you're making accusations about generalizations; it's almost like you want to pretend that Zwarte Piet doesn't exist. In Europe, racists sometimes offer the peculiar perspective that their racism isn't racism. The Spanish claim that making chinky eyed gestures in China is fine because it's "paying tribute" to the way Asians look. The Dutch suppress, with legal force, any protestations against their blackface holiday with the justification that it's fun for children.
The distinction here is one of cultural acceptance. Yes, there are certainly racists aplenty wherever you go, but in America these attitudes and behaviors are known to be shameful even by those that hold them, and those that do so anyway know that they're defying societal norms. You would never see spectators openly throwing bananas or chanting about monkeys or any of the other bizarre shit that happens at European football games.
I think the difference is probably because Europe never had the violent and bloody racial history that America has had to cope with, and so they never had the opportunity to reflect and come to terms with race relations. This shit is new for them. The problem is that instead of asking themselves the hard questions about racism in their countries, they prefer to pretend that nothing is wrong and that no discussion needs to take place.
And that troubling mindset is evident all throughout this thread.
I'M FUCKING SORRY, BUT WHAT
I think one of the big things is that racism in American just isn't accepted, like you said. But unlike in Europe, you simply cant get away with this stuff here. Not at a major event at least. Its not about worrying about getting kicked out or anything. Its about making it out with most of your teeth still intact. Its just not socially acceptable. You'd be facing a mob of angry ass motherfuckers about to stomp you before you'd face a security guard.
Ignis Fatuus
Banned
620,000 died in the Civil War alone. What is your European equivalent?
Never been to poland or ukraine. But me and my friend went to Prague(Czech Republic) and it was awesome. Im asian and hes indian.
6,000,000 Jews dead for one.
And thats just recent!
A lot of Americans tend to forget that racism can be more than just 'black vs white'.
I think it's more that they never had a civil rights movement on the level America did.
Oh wow
Ignis Fatuus
Banned
The Germans have had this opportunity, actually, which is why you don't see them denying their massacres like the Japanese. However the self reflection has almost solely focused on the Jews. Other victims like the Roma still largely face prejudice.
You got trolled.
You're just evading the point being made.
No time like the present to get that civil rights movement working.
Ignis Fatuus
Banned
I just explained why WWII is not relevant. WWII was not a racial conflict, the facists adopted their fantasy about the master race because Germany was trying to create a nation based on jus sanguinus in order to justify their initial ambitions to reclaim territory inhabited by German descendants. It was fundamentally a political issue, and the subsequent period of national reflection has benefited only one minority denomination. It does not change the fact that Europe does not have a racial history comparable to America. It's telling that you're so desperate to play "gotcha" in order to avoid actually considering the subject of racism on your continent. Anything but that!
Another case in point for contrast: The majority of major European countries have or have had leaders that condemned multiculturalism as a failure. Multiculturalism in America is a fact of life. No one with political ambition would attack it, it's simply not a matter of controversy here.
triplestation
Member
What a bunch of jackasses.
Kitschkraft
Member
What the hell is all the semantic horse shit about?
It's clear that not every European or every football fan is a racist. Do people have to preface every statement with "a significant portion of" or "many more than appropriate, but not all" before people jump off the defensive, perpetrator supporting, coy nonsense? God damn, it doesn't matter if "everyone does it", it's a significant portion. People are no better than Platini/Blatter with this crap; not doing anything to address or even acknowledge the problem, just adding to the fucking noise.
It's clear that not every European or every football fan is a racist. Do people have to preface every statement with "a significant portion of" or "many more than appropriate, but not all" before people jump off the defensive, perpetrator supporting, coy nonsense? God damn, it doesn't matter if "everyone does it", it's a significant portion. People are no better than Platini/Blatter with this crap; not doing anything to address or even acknowledge the problem, just adding to the fucking noise.
Awesome Animals
Member
Wow. This is incredible. I may stay up past my bedtime watching this.
In England alone this season there's been two high profile racism cases focusing on players where the accused has been vilified throughout the media and the public. It's obviously ridiculous to state there is no racism in England, but to say we don't combat it or take steps to do something about it is ridiculous. I think only a few weeks ago there's a law passed that you can cancel a player's contract for being racist on the grounds of gross misconduct.
If you're going to deny (for the sake of your little trolling spree) that there was an express policy of mass racial liquidation in Europe then I think the time has come for you to be moderated.
I mean, a lot of this thread has been pissant jokes, but you are out of your depth.
That is fun to imagine.
ConfusingJazz
Member
While he did exaggerate, the final host reports from FIFA weren't exactly sterling for Qatar.
FIFA Bid Evaluation for Qatar
FIFA Bid Evaluation for USA
FIFA Bid Evaluation for Australia
Going by those reports, there should have been no way Qatar should have been anywhere close to the Australian or American bids.
Wait FIFA doesn't have conduct or morals clauses?
Money talks loudest.
Ignis Fatuus
Banned
Reply to my entire post or not at all, thanks. I'm fairly sure that you're the one who's out of your depth here.
FIFA don't have morals let alone clauses alluding to them.
So was slavery here in the States. It doesn't matter how it comes about, racism is still racism.
Ignis Fatuus
Banned
Yet I don't see you contesting that the healing process has been different for each nation, and that the experiences (not to mention the results) are not comparable.
They need to talk to the No Fun League, they got that shit on lock.
Ignis Fatuus
Banned
Not necessarily.
Because, again, the result was that Germany had a long period of national reflection about its treatment of the Jews in particular. While the impact of that is undeniable, it's of little comfort to blacks, Roma, middle easterners, etc. And it's of no relevance to attitudes in other countries which view themselves as also being victims of Germany, and therefore blameless.
ConfusingJazz
Member
I blame Salt Lake City being sloppy for the US not getting anymore international sporting events. If we could still play the game like Qatar and Russia do, we would have this thing in the bag.
What would you define racism as?
and the american civil war was about "states rights". semanitcs.
the healing process? I think to claim the country (edit: USA) has completely healed because we don't throw bananas at players is pretty reductive and very misleading.
We do need to step our game up. The last time I felt we really put on a show was Atlanta.
You made a dumb statement (Europe has no history of racist conflict of any great magnitude), and then doubled down on it to the point of being offensive (The Holocaust ? Not racist, and in any case able to be more or less submerged into the general body of WWII activity).
Ignis Fatuus
Banned
Strawman.
You're flailing around WWII at a grade school level. I'm sorry that my explanation does not fit your Manichean view of the conflict.
Prejudice against another race. It's possible to hold assumptions that do not necessarily paint you as superior.
alexthekid
Member
Multiculturalism a fact of life in America? It sure isn't in the US where i am currently living. What do you mean with multiculturalism? In Europe they are talking about letting refugees into our countries, often people fleeing from your wars. Where I am from in Sweden we have whole communities formed by refugees because they want to live together. Half the immigrants coming to my past city couldn't read or write in any language. Maybe you should see this kind of humanitarian help and its consequences before you become all preachy.
What is the multiculturalism in your country? Black people who have been apart of your country for hundreds of years, or the Mexicans who migrate here and do everything in their power to create a better life for themselves. Is your multiculturalism having immigrants make your hamburgers and work on your fields?
Broder Salsa
Banned
As someone who has gone to football matches at least 10 times a year for the last many years in Denmark, no, it's really not. There's still countries where it might be a significant portion but I've never heard any racist chants in person and whenever there has been any at other matches the idiot has usually been arrested.
I don't see anyone in here saying it's not a problem in Poland and Ukraine (and quite a few other European countries), but it's pretty silly to say European fans when there's so many places that really has no racism other than the occasional fool that will get himself arrested yelling crap. So yeah, that's probably where most people get angry when they read posts pretty much equaling the fans you see in the worst of the worst Ukraine and Poland matches to any other country and league.
so what's your point? what's your angle? the united states has just as strong of an undercurrent of racial tensions, exacerbated by decades of economic warfare waged against minorities (specifically the war on drugs). multicultarlism is a fact of life in america? are you fucking KIDDING me? america is segregated (self-segregated or due to policies...) and with the rise of "casual racism" and media narratives, it's pretty obvious that those tensions still exist.
i'm really missing the healing process here.
edit: and convinient, ignoring your "Manichean" view that the american civil war is a solely racial conflict of the good, liberating north vs. the evil, racist south.
Why would you prejudice against a race you didn't see as inferior? If you hate black people exclusively, surely it's because you think they're lower than you and deserving of unjustified hate. I don't understand how prejudice is separate from that
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