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[Darryl M R]

Comments like this are the exact reason that I cast my vote the way I did. Refusing to look at any other part of this election and demonizing myself and family was enough.

Why are you so fragile?

"Rolling the dice" with people lives. Okay.

 

[Codeblue]

Comments like this are the exact reason that I cast my vote the way I did. Refusing to look at any other part of this election and demonizing myself and family was enough.

There are no "parts of the election". You supported a platform in it's entirety by determining that Trump's positives outweighed his negatives. Yes, that means his bigotry as well. You don't get to cherry pick the aspects of Trump you cast a ballot for, just as I can't say "I voted for Hillary, but not the drone strike aspect".

 

[EdibleKnife]

Comments like this are the exact reason that I cast my vote the way I did. Refusing to look at any other part of this election and demonizing myself and family was enough.

I'm not sure why critiquing your family for being lulled into supporting a man who was openly xenophobic and a party that frequently supports ideals that fundamentally harm disenfranchised people counts as "demonization". You made a choice to support someone who was a known quantity and has revealed even further post-election that he has zero interest in the betterment of any minority and supports white nationalism and anti-LGBTQ+ elements in his administration. No one can enact sanctions against you and your family for electing a flawed candidate but you seem unwilling to even admit fault in the fallout for what you admit you supported.

 

[IrishNinja]

There are also ways to make racial minorities feel bad. Failing to stand up for them in the face of racism is one of them.

literally brought up this point n the last pointless kumbaya thread - adding that i can't imagine bernie would've stayed silent on the growing white nationalist movement backing trump as well - only to be told this mentality is why we can't win elections, etc etc

for real, if i was a minority & this faulty logic was that of my "allies", id throw them in the bushes too

 

[Formless]

This isn't the first time I've heard about this kind of technique. Last year This American Life had a segment about a study in California showing that people's views concerning gay marriage were changed by these kinds of conversations. Unfortunately, a month after the segment aired, one of the study's authors asked it to be retracted because the firm running the survey had been falsifying their data.

It sounds like the study that Vox is citing here comes from those same researchers running their study again, which got its own segment on the podcast.

I think there are two things wrong with how this story is being framed by posters in this thread. The first is that this is putting the onus on minorities to suck it up and pretend to be happy about all this shit, and I don't think it should be read that way for two reasons. One is that anyone can have these kinds of conversations. As the study points out, the identity of the canvasser did not effect the persuasive power of the conversation. If you are not a minority, but you care about fighting racism, you can have these conversations yourself. In fact, considering that you're more likely to be dealing with people with these attitudes, you have a greater obligation than the average minority. The other reason (and this is tied into the second larger thing) is that the conversations in the study weren't being had in response to transphobic incidents: they were presented completely out of the blue. I would suspect this kind of conversation would be less effective in response to someone calling you a racial slur, and that those individuals would be more difficult to reach regardless. Deal with racism you face in whatever way is healthiest for you.

The second thing wrong is people oversimplifying the technique based on the headline, as if to say "We can just stop racism by not calling people racists". That's absolutely false. The effectiveness of the technique depends on creating empathy while still conveying your perspective. The article emphasizes the importance of listening and allowing the other side to present their view, of looking for common ground in how you frame your argument. That is hard work, and it's especially difficult to achieve over the internet, where you have no indication of how invested anyone is in actually listening. I'm all for making the internet less negative, but real results for this are only going to happen face to face with people, in conversations presented outside of responding to a specific racist act.

That said, I do truly believe this is a worthwhile thing to do. Some of the views I see here remind me of other conversations about prison reform. And the misunderstandings are similar, too. Ultimately the question is how we create a country where everyone respects everyone else, and answering that means worrying about outcomes above worrying about proper retribution. But that is not an excuse to dismiss the problem and push it on others - it's a call to confront it head-on no matter how uncomfortable that may be. Empathy does not require accepting bigotry.

Listen to this. It is hard to talk to someone you know is wrong without blasting them, but you gotta do it if you want to help.

 

[Jonm1010]

Calling people racist doesn't reduce racism, okay. I think everyone can agree there.

You know what also doesn't reduce racism?

Not a single Trump supporter being able to openly accept the racism their vote carried into the white house, regardless of their social or political leanings.

The HUGE portion of Americans who ignore institutionalised racism or refuse to believe or accept its existence is the problem minorities face in the first place when it comes to reducing racism.

Pushing the issue of race in America to the back of the queue so that we don't make people who wont accept its existence feel uncomfortable, certainly will not reduce racism. America ALREADY pushed the issue to the back of the queue the moment Trump made it into the white house.

He won. Your economic anxiety has been acknowledged. Can someone out there who voted for Trump now PLEASE acknowledge the racial (sexuality/religious/) anxiety his win has created?

No?

Why?

Let me copy pasta one of my posts from another thread which expands on that some more.

____________________________________________________________________________________

As I said at the top of the previous page.

It's just very telling, especially on this page that Trump supporters simply cannot and will not:

a) Accept the effect their votes have already had regarding the rights of minorities

b) Following point A, be able to say "I know what I voted for, but I will not stand by if the Trump government starts a campaign against your rights.

c) Do anything else other than simply voice their point that they're upset you'd be troubled that they voted for something that's literally making them fearful.

EVERY, SINGLE post defending Trump voters is either some kind of second hand "well I'm sure they're not all racist" which is actually besides the point. You don't need to be racist to turn a blind eye to it. But that's also besides the point.

Or there's the people posting that they're not going to air their views because they fear criticism. Even though the question of the thread is only asking if they will actively denounce and reject any hate towards them whether it be the rise of hate groups or discriminatory legislation from Washington.

The fact that people are far more interested in defending their vote for Trump instead of denouncing his and his partys social views, even when it's not the topic of discussion says a lot imo.

The problem minorities have is that the majority need to be on their side if equality can ever be a reality.

So these discussions NEED to be had. Minorities would like to know where they stand and would like to hear that even if you voted for Trump based on the economy, you'd fight him on social issues geared against them.

But we're not seeing that on the television.

We're not hearing that on the radio.

We're not reading it on Internet forums.

We're not seeing it in Facebook posts.

We can't get anything else other than a defense that a vote for a racist doesn't make them.a racist, and that we need to listen to their issues and that's pretty much all were getting.

Ever.

In a time where the narrative of "we lost the election because we ignored the concerns of x group of Americans" is doing the rounds, the concerns of many Americans right now are being brushed aside because it makes too many feel "uncomfortable".

And I don't believe it's because they're afraid of criticism, but because of the fact that at some stage in the discussion, they will need to admit that regardless of their reasons for voting, their vote also meant something that they themselves are probably not ready to come to terms with yet.

If we cannot get people to at least accept point a) and make statement b), instead of just making point c) over and over and over, then the discussion of equality can't really happen, because it's representative of attitudes that prevent it in the first place

Welp.

Funnily enough, the only two people I've personally been able to hear both say they will work with Trump on his ambitions to change the way politics works and also take a solid stance against his bigotry are Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders.

Why is it so difficult for basically everyone else ive ever seen discuss this election to say the same?

I think for many liberals that goes without saying. Bigotry should not and will not be tolerated. And I hope, when the dust settles, Democrats will not try and purge social justice from their platform. As I think that is the wrong message to take from this. Alter their rhetoric and tactics sure, but abandoning it would be a mistake. And I don't think they will tbh. If anything, it was nice to see Sanders, who is getting a bigger role in the party, spend almost half his time on Colbert the other night talking about social justice and prejudice. Not just his typical economic stump speech. Even trying to better articulate connecting thread between it.

I think something I can share from personally seeing both sides of this divide, living in several urban and rural cities in my life, is that inputs matter. Mechanisms of influence matter. And rural people more and more, despite the growth of the internet(maybe even in part because of it as a self driven destination medium) are overwhelmingly only getting one broad input and influencer, and that is right wing rhetoric. Democrats have all but abandoned trying to influence those areas over the years.

You won't find NPR in a lot of rural cities, but you will find 2-3 ultra conservative talk shows and a evangelical/baptist network decrying the evils of gay marriage and abortion. It's a self reinforcing cycle that over time develops entire cultures based around alternative truths. Which are really often not true, but because there are no competing alternative influencers and a simultaneous erosion of foundational things like quality education, of course many people end up seeing propaganda as truth.

So no, it is likely a mostly impossible excercise to get them to admit their vote enabled that stuff. Not just because of things mentioned in this study, but because their "truth" has rooted itself in a way that makes that impossibly difficult..And let's be frank, there is racism in a lot of this. Its just often a more complex racism then I think liberals are willing to hear. And if you are someone that has been and continues to be oppressed, I get why they may have little interest in wasting time or emotion exploring that. Because no matter how the people supporting these leaders and policies developed their support, it doesn't make them any less wrong or any less worthy of condemnation on their own merits.

 

[0coolclimate0]

I didn't ask you if there was another reason you or they voted.

I asked you if you, your family or friends accept that "rolling the dice" as you put it has very negative consequences regarding minority rights and such?

I've seen racism on both sides. I have to leave this thread. Right off the bat I start getting asked questions that no matter how I answer are specifically designed to make me look bad.
Have fun.

 

[Formless]

Why are you so fragile?

"Rolling the dice" with people lives. Okay.

Simply put people don't necessarily prioritize others over things that are close to them. It's mind boggling to me too, but instead of going on a witch hunt looking for the satisfactory answer that'll never come, understand and convince.

EDIT: Welp, great job guys. This is how hardliners are born.

 

[Enzom21]

I had plenty of Rabbi's and Jewish friends who warned me that Trump was anti-Semitic. I knew going in that there would be issues in my temple and among other Jews. I knew it would affect me very much, even if it wasn't the presidency I knew it would lower me in the eyes of my other Jewish friends.
So it does affect me, don't presume that you know everything about me from a neogaf post.

If you knew all of this before your vote, how do you feel betrayed by him putting an antisemite on staff? You're not being honest here. You didn't give two shits about the racism but you damn sure care about the antisemitism.

I've seen racism on both sides. I have to leave this thread. Right off the bat I start getting asked questions that no matter how I answer are specifically designed to make me look bad.
Have fun.

Both sides huh? Hilary used racism as part of her campaign? I need some examples please.

 

[call_kotaku]

I've seen racism on both sides. I have to leave this thread. Right off the bat I start getting asked questions that no matter how I answer are specifically designed to make me look bad.
Have fun.

This feels like some sort of meta improv skit now

 

[Darryl M R]

I've seen racism on both sides. I have to leave this thread. Right off the bat I start getting asked questions that no matter how I answer are specifically designed to make me look bad.
Have fun.

El oh el.

Come in with the logic of a crayon and then runs out when people call you out on it. Man I wish I could run from [institutionalized] racism.

Simply put people don't necessarily prioritize others over things that are close to them. It's mind boggling to me too, but instead of going on a witch hunt looking for the satisfactory answer that'll never come, understand and convince.

EDIT: Welp, great job guys. This is how hardliners are born.

Next time I'll try to coddle him. Ask if he likes warm milk before or after his ego rub.

It's dogpiling when a person doesn't make sense and is questioned?

 

[0coolclimate0]

I'm not sure why critiquing your family for being lulled into supporting a man who was openly xenophobic and a party that frequently supports ideals that fundamentally harm disenfranchised people counts as "demonization". You made a choice to support someone who was a known quantity and has revealed even further post-election that he has zero interest in the betterment of any minority and supports white nationalism and anti-LGBTQ+ elements in his administration. No one can enact sanctions against you and your family for electing a flawed candidate but you seem unwilling to even admit fault in the fallout for what you admit you supported.

Just one more before I leave the thread, a lot of my family who voted for Trump are not white. Peruvian, Hispanic, and Asian. My family is host to all sorts of ethnicities and backgrounds and religions. I can promise you that many of them voted for Donald Trump.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Not surprised at the blatant cowardice, really.

 

[hydragonwarrior]

This post might make some people mad, might make me unpopular. But it is the truth, and it matters. I figured it was worth noting that there is another side of trump supporters that people keep forgetting about.

And it may be worth considering how many minorities actually voted for Trump - they really did ignore every other thing Trump said aside from his promise of jobs or change, or even brushed his crazed words aside as politicking.

You could say they were simply fooled, but those facet of Trump voters do exist where they'll vote for some reasons and ignore others.

Still though... I don't think it's right to shut up either. If they raise a stink about being called a racist or sexist, hopefully the incoming wave of information opens their eyes, or makes it shut them so tightly.

 

[Slayven]

This feels like some sort of meta improv skit now

I never get these posts. "I say some crazy shit, now I am crazy huh? Guess it is time join the klan"

 

[PixelatedBookake]

Comments like this are the exact reason that I cast my vote the way I did. Refusing to look at any other part of this election and demonizing myself and family was enough.

You didn't think about anyone else but yourself. You felt bad because your family was being called names and, to combat this, supported a man who went out of his way to attack and persecute ethnicities and minorities racist white people saw as their enemies. That's fucking selfish.

 

[brinstar]

Nope. But think about all that murky grey area where someone who's voter soul wasn't yet cast in either side and how they reacted to constantly being told they were a hateful monster and so on for not liking some entertainment reboot, failing to see the fuss over a comicbook cover, that their videogame choices were that of a sexist manpig and so on. They got fed up of being screamed at and more than a few found themselves on the wrong side because at least it wasn't hissing at them. Thats how it works. It's not too hard to understand, but years of absolute internet insanity has obfuscated simple truths like "if you keep fucking going crazy over nothing, people will turn away".

Fighting racism and promoting equality has to also be about peaceful persuasion and not constantly whacking noses with a rolled up newspaper. It's shit yeah, doesn't seem fair to those minorities in danger, but that's the world. Alarm clocks went off a week ago, time to wake the fuck up.

It doesn't matter what method people use to try to fight racism/sexism/etc. It's always considered the "wrong way" by people it doesn't directly affect.

 

[Ms.Galaxy]

Just one more before I leave the thread, a lot of my family who voted for Trump are not white. Peruvian, Hispanic, and Asian. My family is host to all sorts of ethnicities and backgrounds and religions. I can promise you that many of them voted for Donald Trump.

That has nothing to do with what they said, you just used the "my best friend is black" excuse to cover your ignorant statements instead of answering the question and defending your position. Yes, plenty of minorities voted Trump, that said, they were the extreme minority of the minorities, that doesn't make your defence any better.

 

[EdibleKnife]

I've seen racism on both sides. I have to leave this thread. Right off the bat I start getting asked questions that no matter how I answer are specifically designed to make me look bad.
Have fun.

Only one side has hired Steve Bannon of "Renegade Jew", "Gay rights have made us dumber" Breitbart fame for the cabinet. Only one side has made a point of participating in voter suppression through legislation to discourage the minority vote. Only one side has rallies of the KKK celebrating their win. Only one side plays into the hands of Daesh by spreading anti-Muslim rhetoric. Only one side works to take away the autonomy of women under the guise of women's health. Only one side participates in robocalls about the dangers of trans people raping children and the passing of anti-trans bathrooom bills. Only one side denies the existence of climate change. And now that side has immense control in the legislation and direction of the country as a whole. Don't try to paint this as a both sides issue because it isn't.

Just one more before I leave the thread, a lot of my family who voted for Trump are not white. Peruvian, Hispanic, and Asian. My family is host to all sorts of ethnicities and backgrounds and religions. I can promise you that many of them voted for Donald Trump.

And? An individual voting against their best interest/to harm people just like them because they believe they'd be insulated from the fallout/reap benefits is not new or unique.

 

[Darryl M R]

Just one more before I leave the thread, a lot of my family who voted for Trump are not white. Peruvian, Hispanic, and Asian. My family is host to all sorts of ethnicities and backgrounds and religions. I can promise you that many of them voted for Donald Trump.

Lol, "My best friend is black and he agrees with me." You are so messy.

Beaten.

 

[call_kotaku]

I never get these posts. "I say some crazy shit, now I am crazy huh? Guess it is time join the klan"

it feels like someone asking why they should cancel their game preorder

"I know it's dumb but sell me on why I shouldn't do it"

 

[Foggy]

Comments like this are the exact reason that I cast my vote the way I did. Refusing to look at any other part of this election and demonizing myself and family was enough.

You voted a certain way because some random people caused you to feel bad?

 

[Puck Beaverton]

Dawg you knew going in you were going to get stomped on.

Legit have no idea why you would do that.

 

[Slayven]

I still can't get over how someone got so offended at racism being called out that they as a Jew, sided with Steve fucking Bannon
How can you engage with that?

 

[Suikoguy]

I never get these posts. "I say some crazy shit, now I am crazy huh? Guess it is time join the klan"

Most amusing was the post he was offended by was actually trying to come to an understanding with him. Giving more patience then was obviously deserved.

Leave it up to a thread about trying to reach out to racists, to show how impossible it is.

 

[Breads]

Simply put people don't necessarily prioritize others over things that are close to them. It's mind boggling to me too, but instead of going on a witch hunt looking for the satisfactory answer that'll never come, understand and convince.

EDIT: Welp, great job guys. This is how hardliners are born.

At least they get a choice. We, minorities, don't have one. All we have to do to become a victim is simply be born.

 

[cubicle47b]

There isn't a conversation any of us can have with racists that can overcome what they see on Facebook. Read what people thought after switching to an opposite feed.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...le-us-election-conservative-liberal-news-feed

Facebook feeds are pretty far removed from one-on-one conversations about empathy and yet a conservative did change their mind and decide not to vote from Trump.

 

[GrizzleBoy]

I've seen racism on both sides. I have to leave this thread. Right off the bat I start getting asked questions that no matter how I answer are specifically designed to make me look bad.
Have fun.

All I asked is if you acknowledge the racism in Trump that he's used to embolden hate groups over the past couple years?

You could just say yes or no?

The fact that you've decided to simply drop a "both sides, peace out!" is the only thing making you look bad at the moment.

 

[Darryl M R]

I can at least respect a poster that comes in and can go a few pages with their faulty logic. There have been guys that I had to just stop responding to because they won Gold for mental gymnastics.

Dude couldn't even get passed try-outs.

So for my moderate whites, how would you have handle that? Rubbed their shoulder and told them that they were correct in for voting Trump because the other side made them feel bad for supporting a racist?

 

[Messofanego]

This is the thing, even shows like Samantha Bee's or The Daily Show or even Eric Andre, have shown if you just have a minority person talk to a Trump supporter, they realise they're human too and are moved away from a hate path. Not enough Trump voters mingle with different kinds of people. It's no surprise people in rural areas are more bigoted because they have no exposure or interaction, so anyone who isn't white is an exaggeration, an alien or cartoon to them.

But that's not realistic for everyone. Not everyone gets the chance to meet someone who isn't like them. This is the most ideal solution, but it's not achievable for millions of people who wouldn't visit an urban area or something similar. Maybe if there are minorities building their population in more rural areas, attitudes can change on a grander level.

 

[Lime]

Not referring to the discussion about conversation leading to less racism, but I can't believe that it's so terrible for white people to be called out for racism that some are willing to vote in a fascist (who might likely destroy the entire planet with his approach to climate change.)

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Simply put people don't necessarily prioritize others over things that are close to them. It's mind boggling to me too, but instead of going on a witch hunt looking for the satisfactory answer that'll never come, understand and convince.

EDIT: Welp, great job guys. This is how hardliners are born.

Everyone loves a good origin story.

 

[Codeblue]

I still can't get over how someone got so offended at racism being called out that they as a Jew, sided with Steve fucking Bannon
How can you engage with that?

I think I'm just gonna be out of the "Show the racist (or apologist) the error of their ways through polite conversation" game. It is clearly beyond my understanding, and I don't know how to speak to them without scaring them off.

It's like trying to feed a deer berries from your hand without spooking it or something.

 

[IrishNinja]

EDIT: Welp, great job guys. This is how hardliners are born.

nah. i posit that dudes showing up to rationalize their support of a platform of open white supremacy for reasons aren't exactly looking to meet you halfway, or engaging in good faith.

i get the notion of attracting more with honey & all that, but chasing after those who will very clearly never make a priority of the rights of minorities (rather than standing for such) strikes me as about a fruitless as hilary & co chasing TX, AZ & such instead of areas their message might resonate in.

dude already came in & said his vote was a kneejerk reaction to some online/etc dialogue. if not condoning that causes him to evolve into a hardliner, i'm arguing that was very likely gonna happen anyway.

 

[Sad Affleck]

Been arguing the same since the end of the election.

This isn't the way to change things. It only makes people back into a corner and hunker down.

I agree. I will also say that pushing these people to the far corners of the internet is another huge mistake. Sure, you don't have to deal with them if they aren't around, but sweeping them under the rug doesn't mean that they will disappear. They will stay in their own little echo chambers that amplify their feelings and validate their horrible views. Trump happened because a lot of people were blindsided. They thought that because they can't see or hear extremists in their daily lives, online or in the real world, racism and extremism was on declining. Yet here we are.

 

[Darryl M R]

This is the thing, even shows like Samantha Bee's or The Daily Show or even Eric Andre, have shown if you just have a minority person talk to a Trump supporter, they realise they're human too and are moved away from a hate path. Not enough Trump voters mingle with different kinds of people. It's no surprise people in rural areas are more bigoted because they have no exposure or interaction, so anyone who isn't white is an exaggeration, an alien or cartoon to them.

But that's not realistic for everyone. Not everyone gets the chance to meet someone who isn't like them. This is the most ideal solution, but it's not achievable for millions of people who wouldn't visit an urban area or something similar. Maybe if there are minorities building their population in more rural areas, attitudes can change on a grander level.

So one solution is to have minorities seek out rural America to help race relations? Assuming minorities have a reason why they want to go out there and are not forced to integrate then what?

So what's your explanation for North Carolina and Silver Spring, Maryland? Places that minorities are being targeted with hate crimes.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

I'm trying to wrap my head around this because I think it's confusing as fuck

-hillary calls some (not all) trump supporters deplorable, racist, homophobic, xenophobic. Liberals generally agree.

-someone who claims to not be one of those things is offended by the idea of being grouped in with those people, so they vote for the racist, homophobic, xenophobic ticket basically out of spite, against their own interest.

-when faced with the idea that their vote, while not directly driven by bigotry, still contributes to the proliferation of bigotry, that person again feels persecuted and then flees the thread unable to face the discussion at hand

-this is somehow the fault of those who actually tried to engage the user

Is this what the thread is basically about because I'm still lost

 

[DerangedHermit]

Simply put people don't necessarily prioritize others over things that are close to them. It's mind boggling to me too, but instead of going on a witch hunt looking for the satisfactory answer that'll never come, understand and convince.

EDIT: Welp, great job guys. This is how hardliners are born.

Yeah ...nah, fuck that shit. He already had that mindset before his first post, he just wanted someone to tell him that it was ok to be like that and continue as he is.

 

[Byakuya769]

People are really here going with "I didn't want to enable a lying, reckless and race-baiting demagogue, but liberals pushed me away!"?

Get all the way up out of here.

Recommission the concord to get the fuck up out of here with that nonsense as quickly as possible.

 

[call_kotaku]

I'm trying to wrap my head around this because I think it's confusing as fuck

-hillary calls some (not all) trump supporters deplorable, racist, homophobic, xenophobic. Liberals generally agree.

-someone who claims to not be one of those things is offended by the idea of being grouped in with those people, so they vote for the racist, homophobic, xenophobic ticket basically out of spite, against their own interest.

-when faced with the idea that their vote, while not directly driven by bigotry, still contributes to the proliferation of bigotry, that person again feels persecuted and then flees the thread unable to face the discussion at hand

-this is somehow the fault of those who actually tried to engage the user

Is this what the thread is basically about because I'm still lost

Basically interacting with Trump voters is just interacting with an NPC in a Bethesda game

 

[Darryl M R]

I'm trying to wrap my head around this because I think it's confusing as fuck

-hillary calls some (not all) trump supporters deplorable, racist, homophobic, xenophobic. Liberals generally agree.

-someone who claims to not be one of those things is offended by the idea of being grouped in with those people, so they vote for the racist, homophobic, xenophobic ticket basically out of spite, against their own interest.

-when faced with the idea that their vote, while not directly driven by bigotry, still contributes to the proliferation of bigotry, that person again feels persecuted and then flees the thread unable to face the discussion at hand

-this is somehow the fault of those who actually tried to engage the user

Is this what the thread is basically about because I'm still lost

We are talking about Avatar-levels of logic bending.

 

[NastyBook]

He is talking about virtue signaling. Its not that complex of a concept.

It also has nothing to do with this topic. Self-reflection, self-awareness, empathy and sympathy all have to do with this. The onus of all those things isn't even on the holier-than-thou types. It's on the people who voted for a man who, in most cases, will be actively working against them, and not just minorities. If these people aren't willing to put in the work to change themselves, they shouldn't have shit to say when somebody points out their shortcomings. And that's being labeled as racist, bigoted, enabling, ignorant, or apathetic.

 

[CopperPuppy]

I find it ironic and disturbing that the primary focus post-election has been on the supposed repellent effect of intolerance displayed by liberals and their echo chambers rather than the demonstrable intolerance and extreme conservative echo chambers that fostered the support and culture of misinformation Trump rode to the White House.

 

[BitStyle]

There isn't a conversation any of us can have with racists that can overcome what they see on Facebook. Read what people thought after switching to an opposite feed.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...le-us-election-conservative-liberal-news-feed

Exactly. Most can easily retreat to information that confirms their bias

 

[Beefy]

Some of the posts on here are fucked up.

 

[Kreed]

Comments like this are the exact reason that I cast my vote the way I did. Refusing to look at any other part of this election and demonizing myself and family was enough.

You'll have to excuse us. Some of us might be just a little frustrated at the possibility that people's families and/or friends rights could be taken away, in addition to being banned from the country for practicing their religion and/or getting deported. But clearly demonizing you and your family should take priority and we've all had a lapse in judgement. Apologies for hurting your feelings.

 

[Formless]

So one solution is to have minorities seek out rural America to help race relations? Assuming minorities have a reason why they want to go out there and are not forced to integrate then what?

So what's your explanation for North Carolina and Silver Spring, Maryland? Places that minorities are being targeted with hate crimes.

Not really a urban/rural thing but just demographically different areas in general. I mean, there's a reason why people in more diverse areas are usually more tolerant and understanding of other peoples. I've seen lots of kids from only white communities come to a diverse school and learn a lot (though obviously it varies), and there's value in that.


White flight/self segregation has exacerbated this problem and I'm not sure if any public policy solution will work at this point. But I know that I'm willing to talk to people who are also willing to talk civilly, even if they start at a point that I vehemently disagree. And yes a lot of these people aren't willing to real talk, but don't assume that.

 

[Ms.Galaxy]

I'm trying to wrap my head around this because I think it's confusing as fuck

-hillary calls some (not all) trump supporters deplorable, racist, homophobic, xenophobic. Liberals generally agree.

-someone who claims to not be one of those things is offended by the idea of being grouped in with those people, so they vote for the racist, homophobic, xenophobic ticket basically out of spite, against their own interest.

-when faced with the idea that their vote, while not directly driven by bigotry, still contributes to the proliferation of bigotry, that person again feels persecuted and then flees the thread unable to face the discussion at hand

-this is somehow the fault of those who actually tried to engage the user

Is this what the thread is basically about because I'm still lost

And this is why I can't take this study seriously. The reality is that people have to allow their minds to be open to discussion, and most of the time, they don't and when you try to engage them on why their viewpoint is wrong, they flip out, leave, or double down. I know this is anecdotal, but as a trans activist, I've tried opening discussion about transgender issues to people who are ignorant. 90% of the time they didn't listen, double down, and insulted me saying I'm naive and/or a freak (That's just being kind), 5% of the time, they get physical and violent because I am what they hate, and the other 5% actually has some positive effects but I don't really feel like they care although I'm thankful enough that they listened at least.

I do frankly believe that discussion is a viable tactic, I do believe it can help, but these discussions can only happen if the white liberals and moderates have them with their conservative and regressive counterparts. These discussion coming from minorities is added stress that just doesn't seem to work because the people ignorant of your plight doesn't care about you, hates you, and/or fears you and there's nothing the minority can do to convince them otherwise most of the time.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Related to the thread, if you're confused about why people would be suspicious of you when you say something like "I don't have a racist bone in my body," it's because, in many people's experience, mostly racists say "I don't have a racist bone in my body." From a perspective you might not be considering, a phrase like that can imply you've already stopped the conversation before it's started and determined you're in the right.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

Wow