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[4 is a cutie]

I'm sorry but this is beyond ridiculous. Inferior doesn't mean subhuman. I think I have a better work ethic than my brother. Does that mean I think he's subhuman? No of course not. Saying "Mexicans are lazy" is a racist stereotype but even if it were true doesn't make Mexicans not human.

No one thinks of stereotypes as multi-faceted human beings

 

[pj]

There are posts in this thread comparing people talking about racism to crying wolf, and a lot of people here are eager to blame PoC reciprocating Trump's rhetoric on race as the reason we lost the election and the reason that we will continue to lose elections. It's absurd because saying "calling people out for racism doesn't work" is basically saying abolition and the civil rights movement never happened, because calling out racism/sexism/homophobia DOES work, it works really really well.

In fact it might work too well, because people start assuming there's an inevitability to these things, and start patting themselves on the back thinking this is some sort of clicker game because they can't see the people who worked hard for their entire lives on it. The progress America's made from slavery and genocide isn't the natural conclusion of American ideals prevailing over bigotry, it's the combined sweat and blood of several generations of people who worked hard to get us here, so saying "don't confront racists" now does end up being "please stop here".

I don't think confront has to mean immediate ban/block/unfriend/fire/sever ties

 

[Frozenprince]

For the ten billionth time/ "Just talk to racists" HAS BEEN OUR STRATEGY FOR DECADES.

And it hasn't worked.

Segregation is almost back at Jim Crow levels, black and latino men are incarcerated at 4-5x the rate of white men, economic fallout falls DISPROPORTIONATELY on poor urban and rural communities and, yes, people, minorities live in rural america too.

"Just talk to them and it'll go away" has. Not. Worked. What the ever loving hell do you people think we have all been doing for so damn long? Sitting on our asses and listening to hippity rap because "racism is over y'all!"?

Quit passing the buck. It's getting real old.

 

[Inspector Jones]

What gets me is we can't label ppl racists according to this and some ppl. But if we don't how does it get treated? How does the dialogue start?

A drug addict is called one before treatment starts. A violent person is labeled that or with anger management issues before treatment starts.

How in the hell is it going to get fixed if they don't get called racists first?

The first step to getting help is admitting you have a problem. You have to admit you are a racist first before it can be fixed.

Not sure if anyone has responded yet; but this is an interesting point. The problem I see though is that drug addicts/alcoholics are easier to show them the self harm they're doing. Like dude, you have a syringe in your arm! Or asshole you're stealing money from your kids to afford booze. You can more easily appeal to them that they need to change to help themselves.

Getting a racist to admit they're racist is the first step; but I think it's harder to get them to realize it's a problem since racism is so self serving and more harmful to society than themselves, so there's less ways to get them to do the introspection needed to reform.

 

[call_kotaku]

I don't think confront has to mean immediate ban/block/unfriend/fire/sever ties

If minorities did that to every racist we interacted with or every racist thing said to us we'd literally have no white friends. We live in a white world, we know how to be empathetic and how to make our appeals, hell this whole thread is basically PoCs explaining to unbelieving white people what racism is.

We just want you to understand that you can't waver in pointing out the racism at the core of Trump's campaign, because normalizing the result of this election is ultimately how the white supremacists win. Not because 25% of America voted for it, but because the rest of America said it was okay.

 

[Frozenprince]

If minorities did that to every racist we interacted with or every racist thing said to us we'd literally have no white friends. We live in a white world, we know how to be empathetic and how to make our appeals, hell this whole thread is basically PoCs explaining to unbelieving white people what racism is.

We just want you to understand that you can't waver in pointing out the racism at the core of Trump's campaign, because normalizing the result of this election is ultimately how the white supremacists win. Not because 25% of America voted for it, but because the rest of America said it was okay.

We live in an America where white people feel like they are the most oppressed class in the country.

We already know how to fight racism, we already know what battles to fight, we already know how to combat bigotry.

We don't need the helpful white hand of "liberalism" to teach us that. We've been doing it for years.

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

For the millionth time, to those subscribing to what this flawed article has said.

AT BEST, it is only a cure for individual bigotry. It does not work on a larger scale.

What has? Enforcing anti-racist legislation and forcing racists to deal with it. And that's the nicest solution.

 

[EviLore]

We live in an America where white people feel like they are the most oppressed class in the country.

We already know how to fight racism, we already know what battles to fight, we already know how to combat bigotry.

We don't need the helpful white hand of "liberalism" to teach us that. We've been doing it for years.

I'm not going to tell you to "calm down" or whatever. Any amount of anger at America's present outcome is justifiable.

However, open and civil discourse remain mandatory here. This website is not a radical militant organization.

 

[Frozenprince]

I'm not going to tell you to "calm down" or whatever. Any amount of anger at America's present outcome is justifiable.

However, open and civil discourse remain mandatory here. This website is not a radical militant organization.

And I won't tell anybody not to discuss anything. If anybody that voted for Trump wants to post here, I more than welcome that. But I'm not going to avoid or dance around the fact that they justified and ratified a bigot and his bigoted followers either.

My issue is not with the premise of the study itself, my issue is with people now suddenly post election coming out in droves to spin this as some revolutionary and exceptional new way of dealing with bigotry in this country when it's something that people who have been under this countries boot for centuries have already been trying to do.

I am a very abrasive person normally, my anger at this election has not and likely will not subside for some time. But I won't tell anybody that they are an idiot for believing one way or believing that there is a difference in opinion.

I will call out the veracity of their argument. The hypocrisy that we who have campaigned and advocated for social change have seen. And some people on the lefts sudden willingness to throw others under the bus to justify the reasons they lost into a very quick to understand and distilled version of events.

That's all.

Edit: I would also like to note that none of this anger is directed at you, either. Given how dire events are around climate change now I can only imagine your level of outrage and anger. I am simply trying to express mine about a different societal issue that is now prevalent.

 

[Jonm1010]

This thread is very much about how white people feel. You are upset that people aren't discussing things how you think we should so you throw out things like: "hateful rhetoric" and "hostile" are we not being nice enough in a discussion about racists and maybe, possibly not racists who voted for a racist?
How should we be having this discussion, what would make you comfortable?

I don't know where you are getting that psychoanalysis about me from, but it is off the mark.

I have gotten annoyed at times, never upset, not uncomfortable, but have tried to remain respectful. It should be noted I have multiple times now voiced my understanding for people who are angry and upset right now. This shit is shitty. So I am not getting where this assumption that I demanding people be nice. At the same time though, like I told another poster, when it appears that a person's current anger exhibited in their posts will likely make it impossible to have a conversation where my opinions will be heard with respect, I am not going to get into deep engagement. So I answered his question, gave my reasoning and moved on until I was indirectly addressed with what I felt was a mischaracterization, that ultimately led to him telling me to "fuck off."

My annoyance at times has come only from reading responses the other night where people were strongly mischaracterizing and vilifying what were clearly well meaning, well articulated posts. Or just soapboxing in an inaccurate fashion about the article and the underlying study.

I responded to you because I found the way you mischaracterized his post to be unfair to what was a well articulated opinion on his/her end. Not because I want to force you to make me comfortable or whatever you thought.

I get where it can easily be seen that this article or some people's opinions may appear to be trying to coddle racists, excuse white inaction, put the burden on minorities or excuse racist views, and maybe a few people interpreting it are doing that. I have not seen much, if any of it though. But if they are getting that stuff from this article or this study, they are frankly doing it wrong. As the study is merely a social science study about one method of prejudice reduction with a focus on campaign persuasion. The article itself merely highlights this study, other findings and research aided by experts in the field to offer insight into psychology and tactics for those people that are anti-racists and interested in ways the research says to address person to person racism. I think that key piece of context keeps getting lost or having add-ons thrown onto it that aren't there and it is leading to a breakdown of conversations surrounding this article.

 

[Jonm1010]

For the millionth time, to those subscribing to what this flawed article has said.

AT BEST, it is only a cure for individual bigotry. It does not work on a larger scale.

What has? Enforcing anti-racist legislation and forcing racists to deal with it. And that's the nicest solution.

And that is what this article is about primarily, individual level of addressing of racism. At best it could be argued to deal with the broad cultural aspect of racism through individual action.

I agree though, on a broad scale it is primarily systemic and will be best affected by changes through the political system - though I understand there are strains of thought in this field that would disagree with that. I also think that seems to be where a lot of people taking this article to heart are coming from, because in their minds, right or wrong(as that is a debate that is ongoing), they feel there is a need to bring back some white working class voters back into the Democratic party in order to get enough power to make that change happen and cement it.

 

[Bold One]

Do you understand why those people can continue to have those views which are completely outlandish by any reasonable standard? Do you understand how people in the past supported even more outlandish things like slavery or the holocaust? It's because their world view is constantly being reinforced, and because "reasonable" voices are willing to help them do it, not just Fox News and Breitbart. This is how Donald Trump got elected, not because 25% of America is just as racist as he and his platform is, but because his platform got normalized by people who need to find wisdom in inaction. When you put him on a debate stage with the rest of the Republican candidates, and cover him as if he were a serious contender with actual views, you legitimize him to Republican voters. When you put him on a debate stage with Hillary Clinton and cover him as if he were a serious contender with actual views, you legitimize him to America. When you see him win and therefore treat him as just a regular elected official and treat white supremacy as a legitimate campaign platform, you legitimize him to history.

He got here precisely because not enough people were willing to call him by what he really was, because they were desperate not to have to do something to stop him. Now because the Left predicted all of this decades ago we get blamed for causing it because we were the only people talking about it. Because confronting "smug liberals" is easier than actually confronting racism, as this thread demonstrates.

It's how the right and the establishment always manipulate you, but you guys never realize it. When you name something alt-right it means it's just a legitimate part of the conservative party, not literal nazis. When you name something white nationalism it sounds reasonable because black people have their advocacy groups so why can't white people. When you name something men's rights it seems okay because women's rights are always talked about. Right wing extremists are always manipulating moderates further right by normalizing fringe views, but the left wing gets blamed for being overly pushy because we have the decency to treat you like people instead of idiots.

Absolutely this,

.

 

[EviLore]

Edit: I would also like to note that none of this anger is directed at you, either. Given how dire events are around climate change now I can only imagine your level of outrage and anger. I am simply trying to express mine about a different societal issue that is now prevalent.

By contrasting I take it to mean that you don't think I'm outraged and angry about a white supremacist & Neo-Nazi White House and all the civil liberties nightmares already being floated by the administration.

The irony should not be lost on how cautioning against a binary scorched earth approach has been met.

Snap judgments of normalization and capitulation are being determined in anything that isn't pitch-perfect with the current chorus of radical partisanship. Jon Stewart was not only branded an enemy on the spot, but somehow his level demeanor and a point about how briefly removed we are from our history of indifferent anti-semitism was identified as a "normalization" of the Neo-Nazi in the new administration and sufficient to brand him a race traitor.

Bannon and his pals are laughing their fucking asses off right now.

 

[Cyframe]

So here's where my school of thought isn't going to be terribly popular.

The giving up part loses me and I lose quite a bit of sympathy. And I've been there. I've wanted to give up plenty. And in some cases, I did give up. Doesn't make it ok. Doesn't make it right.

Hell, giving up on trying to fix the culture of the commercial banking world (and go figure, a culture that was never particularly friendly to minorities, the poor, etc so you can see how clearly these things tie in) was what led to my position now. But I never said I wasn't to blame. I couldn't change what I wanted to because I failed at it. Nobody else failed me. I failed me. So now I have another opportunity where I'm tirelessly going to do my best to achieve what I couldn't previously.

So don't ever subject yourself to blatant disrespect. And by the same token, don't ever let blatant disrespect be a reason to throw your hands up and say "I quit".

People don't give up because they want to, circumstances can give them no other choice. Constantly dealing with racism causes stress, and can cause mental illnesses, like anxiety and depression. I would know because I developed them from the racial abuse that I've faced.

I do appreciate your efforts to understand certain things with your job analogy but I feel like it misses certain aspects.

People say I quit because the burden is significant. If you were standing with 2-pound weights in each outstretched arm, you'd think the weights were light if you did that for 5 or 10 minutes, but...let's say you're holding them for 4 hours, 10 hours, 20 hours. Even those small weights will become too much if you don't get a break, a rest.

That's where the fatigue comes from. I and others feel as though we're holding all the weight (we really are) and when we see articles like this that almost seem to make light of our experiences and give this so-called alternative method of conversation (that's already been tried) it just adds more weight to our burden.

 

[NewGame]

So I think I was banned for agreeing with the article with this post. So I wanted to unpack the statement further because either people here didn't see the sarcasm or understand where I'm coming from.

There was a really good video that tense social situation where someone was being racist. The woman at the end of this video (I suggest you watch it all the way through to see how others reacted) who diffused the racist actor was AMAZING and at no point did she start getting angry and labelling anyone racist. She pretty much blows all the racial tension out of the water with her calm, fair and reasonable discussion, the actor even starts tearing up.

This is the point of why just yelling at people "RACIST" doesn't actually change society, it doesn't actually help anyone. If you want to make a change in the world you need to approach social issues the same way this woman did, with tact, humility and empathy.

 

[Beefy]

So I think I was banned for agreeing with the article with this post. So I wanted to unpack the statement further because either people here didn't see the sarcasm or understand where I'm coming from.

There was a really good video that tense social situation where someone was being racist. The woman at the end of this video (I suggest you watch it all the way through to see how others reacted) who diffused the racist actor was AMAZING and at no point did she start getting angry and labelling anyone racist. She pretty much blows all the racial tension out of the water with her calm, fair and reasonable discussion, the actor even starts tearing up.

This is the point of why just yelling at people "RACIST" doesn't actually change society, it doesn't actually help anyone. If you want to make a change in the world you need to approach social issues the same way this woman did, with tact, humility and empathy.

Nope

 

[DedValve]

Its not anyones responsibility to coddle racists and it should be the governments responsibility to remove their power should they be unable to change their racist as fuck ways.

Society will change when we pressure our government to continue to take away power from racists and not put up with their shit and its also our responsibility to end racism by not putting up with its shit however we so damn well choose so.

So ladies and gents, vote and write letters to whomever it may concern in a position of power to use their power to restrict and revoke power away from racists. The racists are doing it and thats why we have our current shitfest of a government.

 

[Frozenprince]

Nope

What he said

 

[Vyer]

So I think I was banned for agreeing with the article with this post. So I wanted to unpack the statement further because either people here didn't see the sarcasm or understand where I'm coming from.

There was a really good video that tense social situation where someone was being racist. The woman at the end of this video (I suggest you watch it all the way through to see how others reacted) who diffused the racist actor was AMAZING and at no point did she start getting angry and labelling anyone racist. She pretty much blows all the racial tension out of the water with her calm, fair and reasonable discussion, the actor even starts tearing up.

This is the point of why just yelling at people "RACIST" doesn't actually change society, it doesn't actually help anyone. If you want to make a change in the world you need to approach social issues the same way this woman did, with tact, humility and empathy.

just so I'm clear, you're pointing toward the video of an actor's reaction as evidence of how an actual racist would react?

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

So I think I was banned for agreeing with the article with this post. So I wanted to unpack the statement further because either people here didn't see the sarcasm or understand where I'm coming from.

There was a really good video that tense social situation where someone was being racist. The woman at the end of this video (I suggest you watch it all the way through to see how others reacted) who diffused the racist actor was AMAZING and at no point did she start getting angry and labelling anyone racist. She pretty much blows all the racial tension out of the water with her calm, fair and reasonable discussion, the actor even starts tearing up.

This is the point of why just yelling at people "RACIST" doesn't actually change society, it doesn't actually help anyone. If you want to make a change in the world you need to approach social issues the same way this woman did, with tact, humility and empathy.

Your post was a shitpost.

If you actually spend time reaching out to racists then cool. Not everyone has the time, energy, or disposition to deal with people like this in real life, nor do they want to be ordered to do so.

 

[Frozenprince]

I look forward to the wave of threads of moderate and liberal white people now taking up the banner to fight racism with dialogue.

Any day now.

 

[Vox]

I agree, Vox is right, as always!

Spoiler

 

[Ozigizo]

I don't understand this bump.

You were in the clear, why'd you dredge your own shitpost back up?

 

[Lowmelody]

If you want to make a change in the world you need to approach social issues the same way this woman did, with tact, humility and empathy.

Well this is the worst thing I've read in the last 5 mins or so, which is actually an accomplishment considering the times.