Alligatorjandro
Banned
Yeah I'm sorry but if someone says something to me like that I won't be nice to them at all.
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Vox: Research says there are ways to reduce racism. Calling people racist isnt one.
- Thread starter Croatoan
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IrishNinja
Member
Frozenprince
Banned
Nah you're right I should just accept that it's still illegal for me to exist in 2/3rds of the world is cool and that it was illegal for me to functionally exist IN AMERICA not even 20 years ago because "change is slow".
Lol no, real change is fast, and hard, because change isn't something you just gradually introduce, change is something you brute force into people and eventually they adapt and it becomes normalized. Had we just sat on our hands and waited, school integration would have never happened. Jim Crow would be around a lot longer. Sitting down and having a long constructive conversation on why people should stop oppressing you doesn't work. You need to force that shit and vote in other people who will force that shit.
You need rural America to be dragged away from the rust belt and positioned better long term. Trump promised them the past would come back, it ain't coming back, but they'll never want anything else. So you need to force that cross-section of the country to change or they never will.
Frozenprince
Banned
Of course you do.
Everybody this last week been lecturing about how we need to move forward and appeal to people, bullshit.
Y'all just want justification to make minorities carry this burden by themselves and to wag your finger at us when we don't.
Can someone please point me to the movement that was successful by calmly explaining things to the bigots?
Every successful civil rights movement was successful BECAUSE they made people uncomfortable in their bigotry. Because they forced people to confront their own thinking in the face of others' oppression.
I can't think of a single movement that was successful on the oppressor's terms. But that seems to be what's being argued in this thread.
The subtle racism of the moderate, indeed.
Every successful civil rights movement was successful BECAUSE they made people uncomfortable in their bigotry. Because they forced people to confront their own thinking in the face of others' oppression.
I can't think of a single movement that was successful on the oppressor's terms. But that seems to be what's being argued in this thread.
The subtle racism of the moderate, indeed.
IrishNinja
Member
+1
i get this year's shitty, and with brexit & trump we're seeing some nasty death throes, but placating that shit is something we've literally done forever now - only now that it's no longer dog whistles & out in the open, softer elements of the left follow their instincts to try to play nice with it, for fear that their understanding of change will be dashed away "faster than polar ice caps".
fortunately, history doesn't work that way. if you're so very worried about the perceived backlash that got us here, why not, you know, take part in the very backlash against that shit the rest of us are doing, rather than watching trump put literal white supremacists in power & concede before it's even started?
basically this
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Best of luck with the armed revolution then lads. Its gonna be great.
But don't you know, Frozenprince, it's our job to bend the knee to our superiors. We have to graciously teach them everything about basic human decency while they strip us of our rights. Because, you know, "unity".
Brian Griffin
Member
I never actually called her a racist though, I said the image was racist.
Jay Smooth - How To Tell Someone They Sound Racist
I think the burden falls primarily on privileged progressives rather than minorities in this scenario.
I suspect the following point has already been made many times already: not calling racists racist only serves to normalise wrongheaded thinking. It's implicitly communicating that I'm OK, you're OK so let's just all get along. Except one of you thinks affirmative action is bullshit and minorities are dangerous and we need a great big fucking wall to keep out all the Mexicans.
Frozenprince
Banned
Their favorite trump card in MLK legit went to LBJ and LBJ had to force the south through the use of ACTIVE MILITARY COERCION, LITERALLY FOR THE FIRST TIME SINCE THE CIVIL GOD DAMN WAR THE UNITED STATES ARMY OCCUPIED THE DAMN SOUTH TO FORCE INTEGRATION AT GUNPOINT.
These people will never listen.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
"Peace out fam"
You need to reflect on yourself and start asking questions about why you are feeling and reacting this way when racial and feminist issues are questioned or criticized. Otherwise you'll end up going to the nearest Gamergate/Breitbart hangout and getting sucked into their vortex of hate.
Where do you believe this strawman is going to take you? Serious question
Brown vs the Board of Education wasn't fought with guns
The civil rights act wasn't fought with guns
If calling out racism hits you like a bullet, that says more about you than me.
Euphoria14
Member
Since I see this garbage thrown around GAF a lot about Trump supporters supporting racism only because they voted Trump, as if their personal issues based on their location of residence means jack shit. What do you say to the 30%+ of latinos who supported Trump? Are they racist too?
Or are only the white people racist?
Just asking because I am white, but I voted Hillary. In fact I have voted democrat my entire life. However I must say, the shit attitude on GAF and the bullshit "you can't be racist against white people" posts I see constantly is honestly pushing me away from the Democratic Party these days.
And you know what? This recent election shows it too.
Or are only the white people racist?
Just asking because I am white, but I voted Hillary. In fact I have voted democrat my entire life. However I must say, the shit attitude on GAF and the bullshit "you can't be racist against white people" posts I see constantly is honestly pushing me away from the Democratic Party these days.
And you know what? This recent election shows it too.
For you? Probably. But you probably already knew that.
shiftplusone
Member
as a white person I'm with most others with the point of "why should I waste time trying to convince these people they aren't awful?"
I grew up as a racial minority in my friends group, and a good percentage of my family is either a social or ethnic minority
I got no patience for you throwing your bullshit around, and I've got no issues in stating that bullshit isn't acceptable.
Kind of at a crossroads of trying to reason with you when you talk about "me putting up with all these *slurs*", and not just put hands on you
I grew up as a racial minority in my friends group, and a good percentage of my family is either a social or ethnic minority
I got no patience for you throwing your bullshit around, and I've got no issues in stating that bullshit isn't acceptable.
Kind of at a crossroads of trying to reason with you when you talk about "me putting up with all these *slurs*", and not just put hands on you
Frozenprince
Banned
It makes him feel important.
In the democratic platform was does it say fuck white people? Hell 99.9% of the shit would have benefited white people before minorities.
Frozenprince
Banned
Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh
White fragility y'all.
FadedRevolution
Member
If only we put as much pressure on racists to change rather than minorities, I wonder where would we be?
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Reasons Latinos voted for Trump
-hereditary republicans
-"he's not talking about me"
-"I got in the RIGHT way, fuck them"
-Obamacare too expensive
-fuck blacks/Muslims/gays
-jobs!
-spite
I think that about covers it
I don't think we should normalize racist thinking. But I think the point of the article is that the conversation shouldn't start and end with "you're racist". It should be a conversation. I think we should make people understand why this thinking is wrong and hurtful. I know it should be obvious, but it isn't. I've explained to my mom, who was pretty racist, that the negative associations she has about minorities isn't because of their skin color but because of socioeconomic factors keeping them down. She's an acclaimed doctor, she should realize this, but she didn't until I sat down and explained it to her.
Like I said earlier, this doesn't always work and is a best case scenario, but it has a chance of achieving change. I understand the frustration of those who are opposed to this line of thinking though.
Nope, that doesn't work.
Trump made race such a pillar of his campaign, you don't get to brush it away. Racist policies were the only consistent thing about his campaign.
So you are either racist if you voted Trump, or supporting racism.
IrishNinja
Member
oh, is that what it shows? damn
good work slayven, Frozenprince - ya'll chased off another lifelong ally right here
see while dear royalan here is dropping truth-bombs which should be evident with even a moment's thought, did anyone think about the messaging? could this not have been softer, maybe kept that invaluable ally on board?
Chie Satonaka
Member
You were never really on our team to begin with, then.
Good luck on the other side.
Why are you so oppositional to issues of social justice? What is it that makes you so angry and defensive about it?
Frozenprince
Banned
Legit every page of every one of these threads it's like...
Do you motherfuckers seriously not think that we haven't been doing this shit to try and get racists to stop being racist?
Like, the hell you think we've been doing this whole damn time?
Do you motherfuckers seriously not think that we haven't been doing this shit to try and get racists to stop being racist?
Like, the hell you think we've been doing this whole damn time?
Gotdatmoney
Member
I honestly believed a presidential candidate openly displaying racism and hatred to a large portion of the country would be enough to make people say "no not like this". . . That clearly wasn't the case.
So frankly, I'm not making excuses for these people, whatever race. They made their choice. And this election shows you can say and incite w/e the fuck you want as long as you say "and we'll get the good ole days back".
Sad. I have my huge issues with the Republicans but they never went so far as to do what Trump did. And even that apparently wasn't enough. So what exactly is left to argue? These people will vote for them under any circumstance, even open bigotry. Don't you see how this irks people?
Face to face I'm not throwing out, "you're racist" because it leads nowhere. But I'm not having discussions with people where you can't start from a place that doesn't recognize there is a huge issue with supporting what Trump stands for.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Darryl M R
Member
We obviously been leeching off of the government getting welfare and taking all of the spots for university students with our Affirmative Action quotas.
Frozenprince
Banned
And it's not like we're trying to ignore the people disenfranchised by globalization like we keep getting told we are.
But I'm SORRY, you don't get to absolve yourselves of guilt or culpability of voting for Trump over economic reasons when Trump and his campaign and his cabinet and everything about the RNC in THIS SPECIFIC ELECTION made race and race relations the definitive cornerstone of his campaign.
You don't get to dismiss that.
Raven117
Member
If anyone is truly interested, I highly...HIGHLY recommend reading
Long Walk to Freedom: By Nelson Mandela
Followed by his specific policies regarding race relations.
Actually, a reading of the history of apartheid, the Afrikaaners, the African American Congress (back then...not now), may give one another point of view to consider in forming an opinion on race and how to stop it.
Long Walk to Freedom: By Nelson Mandela
Followed by his specific policies regarding race relations.
Actually, a reading of the history of apartheid, the Afrikaaners, the African American Congress (back then...not now), may give one another point of view to consider in forming an opinion on race and how to stop it.
Fucking hell, the amount of crazy people that have posted in this thread.
A hell lot of posts are reading like I don't like being called out for either being a racist or voting for one. This thread saying racists shouldn't be called out but should be talked to as if they have simply got something wrong is like a beacon.
A hell lot of posts are reading like I don't like being called out for either being a racist or voting for one. This thread saying racists shouldn't be called out but should be talked to as if they have simply got something wrong is like a beacon.
I know and I've linked that same video here on gaf several times before in the past. I'm arguing that the outcome will ultimately be the same whether you distinguish between who they are and what they said. People will fire back with rhetoric like "well they didn't intend to be racist" or "well you know they aren't racist" and proceed to tell you that you're being to sensitive and give them a pass. You're example is much different from what I've experience though and I'm glad you got the outcome you did but ultimately people think their shit don't stink it will be impossible for someone like my self to amicably address bad behavior demonstrated from them and not be met with defensiveness and them doubling down. Not to mention the word racist being an auto trigger for mother fuckers regardless to how it's framed.
shiftplusone
Member
callin in your drug deals on your free obama phones
Daryl Davis was able to successfully convert members of the KKK through sitting down and having a conversation.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics...ing-about-race-with-the-klu-klux-klan/388733/
RyougaSaotome
Member
This is what gets me.
People are acting like they're coming up with these amazing NEW solutions that are going to CHANGE THE WORLD!
What in the hell do people think minorities have been doing for the last god knows how many years? Since during and before the civil rights movement and for what feels like forever?
Do you really think we haven't tried it? REALLY?
FadedRevolution
Member
You do know the KKK still exists right?
I think this is entirely compatible with what I'm saying: call out racist behaviour as racist and then address the inevitable "that's outrageous! I'm not a racist!" retort that comes back. Like, "OK, I'll take you at your word that you're not racist but what you did or said just now was, and here's why".
Did I say they didn't?
Frozenprince
Banned
Personally, I'm old enough and tired enough where I've reached the point where I don't give a fuck if somebody doesn't "see the light". That's not what we need to accomplish.
What we need to accomplish is to make sure those that are ignorant and hateful die silent. That their beliefs don't influence national or state level policy anymore. That's it, that's literally it. They can be intolerant as shit all they'd like in the comfort of their own damn homes away from all the things and people they hate as long as they stop trying to create a safe space for themselves by continuing to disenfranchise the rest of us.
What we need to accomplish is to make sure those that are ignorant and hateful die silent. That their beliefs don't influence national or state level policy anymore. That's it, that's literally it. They can be intolerant as shit all they'd like in the comfort of their own damn homes away from all the things and people they hate as long as they stop trying to create a safe space for themselves by continuing to disenfranchise the rest of us.
The Quakers, especially Samuel Wood, and the Society of Friends were also fairly effective at spreading the message of abolition through steady persuasion.
One, that is not a movement. That is an anecdotal guy talking to another guy.
I mean, why don't we just give half the US a platform? Then they'll reciprocate and listen to us willingly like they did in the 40s--oh, wait...
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