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[HyperCubed4]

@HyperCubed: That's pretty much one of the biggest reasons why I advocate both of them. It'd be nice to see J-Nintendo fans going "who's that" for once while we get a treat.

Definitely. I can't tell you how many times I've heard people go "who the hell are Marth and Roy?" while I played Melee with them.

Nah. I'd just call the event "Foreign Exchange".

Besides, the funny/sad thing is that a lot of players will have no idea who either of the chars are.

Sad? Nah. Funny? Definitely. It'd be hilarious. Mind you, I fell victim to that for the first two games. Ness and Captain Falcon gave me a puzzled look, then Marth, Roy and Game & Watch really shocked me. I had played the Game & Watch Gallery games for the GBA (it was the GBA, right?) so I knew about him, I was just surprised to see him in there.


Changing gears... I think Ganondorf should have a revamped moveset. Having a Luigi-fied Captain Falcon moveset doesn't sit well with me.

 

[Fou-Lu]

Piggy backing off this thought, we could also send it in to Sakurai via twitter when things get real heated, so again, why not?

I agree with this being done, if nothing else it will be fun. And if any of our most wanted characters get in we can pretend GAF had a hand in the roster.

 

[HeroR]

I wasn't a big fan of the Miis during time that Brawl was in development, but I have warmed up to the idea, especially if you could customized them. I can imagine people switching their Miis from a sword fighter type to an archer, or even changing the weight balance and the power of their attacks. Of course, this system needs a lot of balance to keep people from making their Miis God Tier class.

As for the roster, the roster is one of those things that is difficult to balance since no matter what Sakura does people will be unhappy. For every character added people will complain about why didn't this character get added in and for any character cut, even if they weren't that popular, people will complain why that character was cut. I think Sakura and his team just need to do their own thing and make the best game they can. I personally enjoyed Brawl more than Melee, especially a lot of the extra stuff.

If I have any demands it would be to expand the custom level editor like given more options for backgrounds, traps, or even designs so we can make character specific stages. They could make an option for DLC to get some of the best parts if we need such an option. I would also enjoy the custom Break the Target back along with the different level of difficult introduce in Brawl. I would also would like the story mode to have more roots in Nintendo's characters and for the stickers to translate into multi matches for more custom feeling characters.

None of my demands are must or things so important that I won't buy the game, but I would love to have them.

 

[HeroR]

This. They press the special move button a few times, see something superficially similar, and write off entire characters. It'd be one thing if it was like three separate characters and fifteen clones or something, but any assortment of clones in any Smash has been a rather small proportion of the overall roster size. A few extra movesets to beef up a roster isn't hurting anyone other than petulant, spoiled children who always whine for more regardless of the actuality of the resource management.

I really don't understand why so many Smash fans want the series to only be made for the lowest common denominator fans and nobody else.

This is a game forum. It is all about the lowest common denominator coming together and acting like they speak for the majority on everything.

 

[XeroSauce]

Definitely. I can't tell you how many times I've heard people go "who the hell are Marth and Roy?" while I played Melee with them.



Sad? Nah. Funny? Definitely. It'd be hilarious. Mind you, I fell victim to that for the first two games. Ness and Captain Falcon gave me a puzzled look, then Marth, Roy and Game & Watch really shocked me. I had played the Game & Watch Gallery games for the GBA (it was the GBA, right?) so I knew about him, I was just surprised to see him in there.


Changing gears... I think Ganondorf should have a revamped moveset. Having a Luigi-fied Captain Falcon moveset doesn't sit well with me.

While I liked that fact that they changed some of his moves and gave everything he had more kick, I'd like to see a different moveset as well. Use the sword in air attacks, give him some dark magic.

 

[Zee-Row]

Ganondorf really needs his own moveset.

 

[AnkiRendan]

The only character I don't want to return is Snake. I'm also somewhat puzzled by people wanting Toon Link to be removed. Sure, give him more to differentiate him from the older Link, but Toon Link's design is so popular and it's been featured in so many games.

 

[friskykillface]

King K Rool or bust



Don't let me down

 

[Neiteio]

The only character I don't want to return is Snake. I'm also somewhat puzzled by people wanting Toon Link to be removed. Sure, give him more to differentiate him from the older Link, but Toon Link's design is so popular and it's been featured in so many games.

...you don't want Snake to return?

What's wrong with you?

Why do you hate fun?

Honestly, guys, there's no reason for them to not bring back all 39 characters from Brawl (plus Mewtwo from Melee, while we're at it). The design work is all done; just update their character models and animation, add a few differentiating touches and call it a day. Anything less is a step backwards.

 

[Chet Rippo]

I really doubt Ganondorf is ever going to change.

 

[HeroR]

Ganondorf really needs his own moveset.

I kind of have mix feelings about Ganondorf. I know he is important to the Zelda series a a whole, but he hadn't showed up in a Zelda game since Twilight Princess and I kind of what Ghirahim to be a playable character or even his master. I wouldn't mind having them all, but I am not sure Sakura would want to increase the roster of Zelda characters.

We just have to wait and see.

 

[ffdgh]

oh snake can return no prob.....just make sure his hit boxes aren't so.....stupid/broken

 

[AnkiRendan]

...you don't want Snake to return?

What's wrong with you?

Why do you hate fun?

Honestly, guys, there's no reason for them to not bring back all 39 characters from Brawl (plus Mewtwo from Melee, while we're at it). The design work is all done; just update their character models and animation, add a few differentiating touches and call it a day. Anything less is a step backwards.

I'm not sure if it sounds fanboyish of me, but I really don't think Snake belongs in Smash Bros a second time. I could excuse Sonic as he was actually voted in, has several Nintendo exclusive titles, and hell, the idea of Mario vs. Sonic is awesome. But Snake? Snake isn't a big name for Nintendo at all. Since Brawl, there's been no Metal Gear anything on a Nintendo system. It's just something that bothers me personally.

That and I'm still salty that Snake ended up being heavier than Charizard as well as having some utterly stupid hitboxes. But mainly, Snake not being someone who you think of as a Nintendo character or someone with a huge Nintendo history is why I would want him to be the first removed character out of anyone.

 

[Tuck]

Nice that they are posting updates, even for minor stuff like this.

Those characters will all likely be back.

I agree that less clones would be nice. Hopefully they drop one of the Starfox characters (Three Starfox characters, all super similar) or change them up a bit.

Also hopefully they balance things more. I know meta-knight can be really, really cheap.

 

[Rafaelcsa]

This. They press the special move button a few times, see something superficially similar, and write off entire characters. It'd be one thing if it was like three separate characters and fifteen clones or something, but any assortment of clones in any Smash has been a rather small proportion of the overall roster size. A few extra movesets to beef up a roster isn't hurting anyone other than petulant, spoiled children who always whine for more regardless of the actuality of the resource management.

I really don't understand why so many Smash fans want the series to only be made for the lowest common denominator fans and nobody else.

I do agree that the number is small and it doesn't bother me too much, but I definitely find Falco/Wolf, Ganondorf, Lucas and Toon Link (I may be forgetting someone) to be clones. The thing is, the concept for these characters is too similar to the characters they are cloned from. B specials, final smashes, appereance (except for Ganondorf, obviously) are all too similar. Sure, high level players may have different playstyles for each of them, but to most people they are going to be considered clones, whether you like it or not. Just like Ryu/Ken/Akuma/etc.

I'm not a tournament player at all, but I definitely consider myself a "core" Smash player, since Brawl has been my most played game since it came out in 2008 (I bought my Wii because of it) and Melee used to be a favorite for years and years. I do believe many people like me would agree that there are clones in the game, even if we're not particularly offended by them.

I would like to see these clones more differentiated, though. A great example of a character who could have been a clone but happily is not is Luigi. Other than his appearence and standard B move, he's way different from Mario. I don't think anyone would label him a clone. The characters I've cited above are not even close to being as different from their inspiration as Luigi and could receive the same treatment.

 

[qq more]

Since Brawl, there's been no Metal Gear anything on a Nintendo system. It's just something that bothers me personally.

MGS3 was ported to the 3DS.

 

[DjRoomba]

Banjo Kazooie!!
King K Rool!
Pacman!
Rayman!
I would be disappointed without these characters...

 

[Firemind]

Ganondorf is fine as long as they don't make him shit tier again.

 

[qq more]

Banjo Kazooie!!
King K Rool!
Pacman!
Rayman!
I would be disappointed without these characters...

Okay, come on. That is simply impossible now.

 

[Lindbergh]

I really doubt Ganondorf is ever going to change

into a playable Ganon

 

[Diddy Kong]

People they can get rid of in SSB4:

Diddy Kong

Feels bad man.

 

[Anth0ny]

I agree that less clones would be nice. Hopefully they drop one of the Starfox characters (Three Starfox characters, all super similar) or change them up a bit.

yeah they should change them up abit

 

[DarkKyo]

Feels bad man.

Don't listen to them you were one of my favorite characters in that game.

 

[bridegur]

I hope the fact that they're developing it for both the 3DS and the Wii U doesn't mean the Wii U version will be held back visually.

 

[Green Mamba]

I do agree that the number is small and it doesn't bother me too much, but I definitely find Falco/Wolf, Ganondorf, Lucas and Toon Link (I may be forgetting someone) to be clones. The thing is, the concept for these characters is too similar to the characters they are cloned from. B specials, final smashes, appereance (except for Ganondorf, obviously) are all too similar. Sure, high level players may have different playstyles for each of them, but to most people they are going to be considered clones, whether you like it or not.

I'm not a tournament player at all, but I definitely consider myself a "core" Smash player, since Brawl has been my most played game since it came out in 2008 (I bought my Wii because of it) and Melee used to be a favorite for years and years. I do believe many people who aren't casuals neither tournament players like me would agree that there are clones in the game, even if we're not particularly offended by them.

I would like to see these clones more differentiated. A great example of a character who could have been a clone but happily is not is Luigi. Other than his appearence and standard B move, he's way different from Mario. I don't think anyone would label him a clone. The characters I've cited above are not even close to being as different from their inspiration and could receive the same treatment.

I wasn't denying the existence of clones--I'm just saying they don't merit the amount of complaining that they get. Believe it or not, people do actually like playing as these particular characters--I'm hardly a tourney player (or should I say I'm not one in any sort of way), but I mained Dr. Mario in Melee and did not at all like playing as Mario. To me clone complaining reeks of selfish individuals who want movesets removed for no better reason other than they offend their sensibilities.

I don't see how Luigi is so much more different from his source than Lucas and Wolf are--I think you need to go back and actually compare them. Outside of their final smashes (which are an incredibly small part of the overall moveset), they really don't play anything remotely like Ness and Fox--pretty much none of their regular attacks look or function anything like the regular attacks of their respective "host" and their special moves are split between a few that are fundamentally similar and those that are only superficially similar (akin to Luigi?!). Don't forget how similar Luigi was in the first Smash, enough to make a Melee clone blush. It took a few games for him to find his way. Falco and Ganondorf are both definitely on their way there as well (Ganondorf not even sharing a Final Smash).

There's more to each character than a few presses of the special move button. To even claim that a character like Wolf or Lucas isn't even close to being like Luigi just sounds like you don't actually play as the characters.

 

[Kenai]

I came to see Pikmin, and am not disappointed. Olimar is possibly my favorite character out of any fighter that I have ever played!

I also am in the minority I guess since Melee is my least favorite out of the Smash series, but I still enjoyed it. Brawl is my fav. A lot of people who complain about 64/Brawl seem to give Melee a pass for the same basic flaws, like clones and glitches and tier imbalance and whatever.

Other aspects seem to just be gameplay differences that they prefer that I don't (I prefer Brawl's speed to Melee's for example, 64 was a bit slow and melee too fast for my taste), but subjective opinions are just that. Objectively, Brawl had a bigger roster with a far larger variety of character mechanics, both for individual characters and overall gameplay changes.

The one thing I agree with was the terrible netcode leading to no fun online. Tripping was pretty dumb too but it seems like the people who complained about it loudest used it as an excuse for why they played worse than their opponent (no offense to anyone).

 

[WillyFive]

They shouldn't be removing anything. I hate it when Nintendo removes stuff from sequels when the original game had them.

 

[Firemind]

Metaknight, Snake and Diddy Kong made the game more imbalanced than whatever Melee had, but that's just my opinion.

 

[HeroR]

I wasn't denying the existence of clones--I'm just saying they don't merit the amount of complaining that they get. Believe it or not, people do actually like playing as these particular characters--I'm hardly a tourney player (or should I say I'm not one in any sort of way), but I mained Dr. Mario in Melee and did not at all like playing as Mario. To me clone complaining reeks of selfish individuals who want movesets removed for no better reason other than they offend their sensibilities.

I don't see how Luigi is so much more different from his source than Lucas and Wolf are--I think you need to go back and actually compare them. Outside of their final smashes (which are an incredibly small part of the overall moveset), they really don't play anything remotely like Ness and Fox--pretty much none of their regular attacks look or function anything like the regular attacks of their respective "host" and their special moves are split between a few that are fundamentally similar and those that are only superficially similar (akin to Luigi?!). Don't forget how similar Luigi was in the first Smash, enough to make a Melee clone blush. It took a few games for him to find his way. Falco and Ganondorf are both definitely on their way there as well (Ganondorf not even sharing a Final Smash).

There's more to each character than a few presses of the special move button. To even claim that a character like Wolf or Lucas isn't even close to being like Luigi just sounds like you don't actually play as the characters.

I agree completely. Although Roy and Marth were clone in Melee, I personally liked playing as Roy more and I kicked butt as him. I was very good with Captain Falcon, but Ganondorf was nearly unplayable for me in both Melee and Brawl. My brother was good as Dr. Mario, but was only so-so with Mario. He was also godly with Fox, but suck eggs as Falco. If they were truly clones, it should have matter which version we played.

I don't mind clones as long as they are well down. I do hope, however, that all characters have their own Final Smash and not share.

 

[Neiteio]

They shouldn't be removing anything. I hate it when Nintendo removes stuff from sequels when the original game had them.

This. Nintendo's all like, "Wow, look at all the hard work we put into these characters, LET'S REMOVE SOME FER TEH SEQUELZ, HERP DE DERP."

 

[WillyFive]

Metaknight, Snake and Diddy Kong made the game more imbalanced than whatever Melee had, but that's just my opinion.

I thought Brawl balanced better than Melee did; but the wide variety in play-styles between characters kept people coming back for the same ones.

 

[Ezduo]

Really digging the art style of the characters in the pic. I wouldn't mind seeing a unified style with every character looking like they came from the same universe as opposed to some looking more cartoony than others.

 

[VerTiGo]

I enjoyed all Smash Bros. games but it's definitely not my kind of fighting game... Sakurai's comments about taking a different direction definitely have me interested. I hope they get rid of the floatiness, I can't stand that feeling in any kind of game.

Also, don't take too much from the artstyle used in the drawing. Reminds me of the original game's art.

 

[nintendoman58]

Since Namco Bandai is in on this, I wouldn't be surprised if they added Pac-Man or any other Tales character.

Spoiler

The Tales character would probably be a Marth/Ike/Roy clone unfortunatley

 

[Verelios]

Roy's my boy~ Roy's my boy!~

Great pictures though.

 

[Boney]

This. Nintendo's all like, "Wow, look at all the hard work we put into these characters, LET'S REMOVE SOME FER TEH SEQUELZ, HERP DE DERP."

there's work that needs to be done on the characters even if there's a vestige to trace upon. Then there's deadlines and budgets that need to be met. Mewtwo was being worked for brawl, but ultimately had to be cut for those reasons.

If anything, Nintendo is criticized for reusing assets all the time. We've been using pretty much the same Mario model in most games since 2002.

 

[sorijealut]

Watch it become a 2D fighter.

At least on the 3DS I can see this.

 

[DR2K]

Watch it become a 2D fighter.

At least on the 3DS I can see this.

It is a 2D fighter. . .

 

[El Sloth]

Everyone's going to ask for Ganondorf to use his sword and Sakurai will just make his taunts more elaborate in response.

If I have any demands it would be to expand the custom level editor like given more options for backgrounds, traps, or even designs so we can make character specific stages. They could make an option for DLC to get some of the best parts if we need such an option.

It's something I see rarely brought up when discussing the next Smash Bros, but I'm totally with you in hoping that we see an expansion in the custom level editor. It definitely extended the life of the game for me personally.

I had so much fun just making really dickish stages that would try it's best to fuck everyone over. So many hilarious moments. And of course it was also fun trying my best to make a decent "serious" Smash stage. Just wish there more options to really give your stages some personality.

I remember going on a beer run once and coming back to find my friend had made a stage in the shape of a penis. Made me wonder how many penis stage submissions some poor Nintendo employee had to go through before finding one suitable for those daily downloadable user stages.

 

[Zekes!]

You might as well just make a playable Mii character

I figured he/she could be similar to Mr.Game&Watch in that they use random Animal Crossing items as weapons; ie tools, furniture, etc.

 

[sorijealut]

It is a 2D fighter. . .

Mind blown.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

Give me Ridley, Lil' Mac, Samurai Goroh and Mega Man and you could add in the Undo Dog from Mario Paint for all I care.

K. Rool, Lip, Jill, Mike Jones, etc. would still be nice (and Palutena's a shoe-in) but the above four seem way overdue by now.

 

[hydragonwarrior]

I really doubt Ganondorf is ever going to change.

foreveraclone.gif

 

[Mr. Sam]

As someone who rotated (rotates) between Ike, R.O.B. and Wolf, I often wake up in a cold sweat. You guys aren't helping.

 

[majik13]

I really, REALLY hope the Pokemon Trainer comes back. Maybe with different Pokemon this time around.

maybe in the spirit of clones, Poke trainer gets to select what three pokemon he wants out of maybe 6-12 or something. I have never played pokemon but you get to pick 3 out of your collection before battle right?

 

[SykoTech]

I play it and there are tons of clones.

There really is.

And I'll never understand why they decided to make Ganondorf one. He has plenty of potential for a unique moveset.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

Because Melee was rushed as hell.

A better question would be why they couldn't be bothered to unclone him in Brawl. If people really want that slower-stronger take on Falcon's moveset to stay, why not give it to someone it'd make sense on, like Black Shadow?

 

[Diomedeskun]

Geno is probably the only remaining "first-party" character I can think of actually wanting in. The rest of Brawl's cast is downright perfect. Maybe split the PKMN Trainer to 3 full characters, and give us back Mewtwo and Roy. (Dr. Mario should be a pallet swap)

Geno's not exactly first party, Square Enix has the rights, which is why they popped up in the credits to the first Mario & Luigi.

I was really annoyed when Sakurai posted on the Smash Dojo last time that Nintendo really hadn't come up with new IP, which had Pikmin as the only new IP to release after the original Smash Bros. Perhaps there hadn't been a ton of big hits with new characters in a while, but there were a ton of great new characters even then, and a number of those were assist trophies, and there are even more now.

I wold love to see characters from Pushmo, Sakura Samurai, Golden Sun, Advance Wars, and more games from the last two or three generations included as playable characters. I love the classics as much as anyone, but I really want to see more acknowledgement of the great games Nintendo has released over the last decade.

 

[Mr. Fix]

Yo haters:

It's Waluigi time!

And this badass mofo right here:

 

[XeroSauce]

Because Melee was rushed as hell.

A better question would be why they couldn't be bothered to unclone him in Brawl. If people really want that slower-stronger take on Falcon's moveset to stay, why not give it to someone it'd make sense on, like Black Shadow?

They wanted to retain the familiarity of the old Ganon, I bet.

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/hidden09.html

That bit with the sword..speculation went wild on Smash World Forums from that stuff.