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[OldJadedGamer]

Who cares if it's real Shane or Shane-in-character?

The problem is that Shane's podcasting persona in uninteresting and makes 1up Yours borderline unlistenable at times.

Sometimes I can hear him drooling over my headphones when he goes on fanboy rants. But I agree, he does bring down the podcast to a GameFAQ level where it shouldn't be.

 

[Tobor]

I've played a lot of Metal Gear and A LOT of shooters and action/adventure games, and after 2 hours I still feel completely uncomfortable with MGS4's controls. It's a weird hybrid of so many games but it doesn't have its own consistent feel. The buttons placement makes absolutely no sense and everything just feels so cumbersome.

The new controls with MGS1-3 level designs would be great, but in these new open levels with so much going on, no real radar, and so many enemies who can spot you, I just never feel totally in control like I want to be. Obviously, many people here have put a lot of time into the game and can play it very well, but it's just not intuitive at all for me so far.

And for comparison, I had a very, very short learning curve with GRAW and never felt like I was fighting the controls to do what I wanted to do, though to be fair, there was far less you could do in that game.

This is really all I need to hear on the subject. If Matt is finding the MGS4 controls uncomfortable, I'll find them completely incomprehensible.

I couldn't make heads or tails out of the GRAW controls. I understand what to do, it was just so overcomplicated it sucked the fun out for me.

 

[Cirekiller]

I've played a lot of Metal Gear and A LOT of shooters and action/adventure games, and after 2 hours I still feel completely uncomfortable with MGS4's controls. It's a weird hybrid of so many games but it doesn't have its own consistent feel. The buttons placement makes absolutely no sense and everything just feels so cumbersome.

The new controls with MGS1-3 level designs would be great, but in these new open levels with so much going on, no real radar, and so many enemies who can spot you, I just never feel totally in control like I want to be. Obviously, many people here have put a lot of time into the game and can play it very well, but it's just not intuitive at all for me so far.

And for comparison, I had a very, very short learning curve with GRAW and never felt like I was fighting the controls to do what I wanted to do, though to be fair, there was far less you could do in that game.

Use the sensor rings for locating nearby enemies, you don't need a radar. You got a 2d map and a 3d map telling you where to go. I'm not the greatest at shooters and I have no problem with MGS4's controls. It just might be easier for some then others I guess. I'm only like 4-5 hours in.

 

[firehawk12]

Who cares if it's real Shane or Shane-in-character?

The problem is that Shane's podcasting persona in uninteresting and makes 1up Yours borderline unlistenable at times.

I swear when he went into "OMG Bourne got 8 just like MGS4" I thought I went into a typical gaming forum thread. Someone said how it was a highlight of the worst of the Internet, only in audio form, and I don't think that person is wrong. Hell, I'm almost reminded of that whole "Gerstmann hates Zelda" bullshit when he gave TP 8.8 or whatever it was.

I can see that when he does his "Sony so good" thing, he's in character. Every time he talks about the lack of a hard drive or the red ring of death or whatever, I can see that it's a joke. Even his shallow defence of Resistance: Fall of Man, even though he HATES FPSes and won't even play Bioshock... fine. It's funny, I get it. Sometimes, I even laugh at his constant trolling. But geez, he went to a whole new level with his MGS4 is the best game ever rhetoric.

 

[blame space]

I swear when he went into "OMG Bourne got 8 just like MGS4" I thought I went into a typical gaming forum thread. Someone said how it was a highlight of the worst of the Internet, only in audio form, and I don't think that person is wrong. Hell, I'm almost reminded of that whole "Gerstmann hates Zelda" bullshit when he gave TP 8.8 or whatever it was.

I can see that when he does his "Sony so good" thing, he's in character. Every time he talks about the lack of a hard drive or the red ring of death or whatever, I can see that it's a joke. Even his shallow defence of Resistance: Fall of Man, even though he HATES FPSes and won't even play Bioshock... fine. It's funny, I get it. Sometimes, I even laugh at his constant trolling. But geez, he went to a whole new level with his MGS4 is the best game ever rhetoric.

What is wrong with you guys? Shane thinks it's ridiculous that some reviewers rated The Bourne game the same as MGS4. Why does him saying that cause such a backlash?

 

[eznark]

What is wrong with you guys? Shane thinks it's ridiculous that some reviewers rated The Bourne game the same MGS4. Why does him saying that cause such a backlash?

the comment would get him banned here, no?

 

[Cirekiller]

You guys should listen to IGN's Podcast Beyond. Lol its like 3 Shane's discussing MGS4.

On another note why can't Shane like MGS4? If he feels like it's the best game of all time does it bother you. He laid out his reasons and his opinions. Do you want everyone to have the same opinion, cause that would make a boring ass podcast.

 

[eznark]

You guys should listen to IGN's Podcast Beyond. Lol its like 3 Shane's discussing MGS4.

On another note why can't Shane like MGS4? If he feels like it's the best game of all time does it bother you. He laid out his reasons and his opinions. Do you want everyone to have the same opinion, cause that would make a boring ass podcast.

I like podcast beyond (and I like 1up Yours as well) but there is a world of difference. Podcast beyond has no one near as pretentious (real/fake don't matter) as Bettenhausen, but I like it a ton less.

I don't think anyone has an issue with him liking the game, most are put off by his attitude of those who aren't 100% on Kojima's jock.

If you wouldn't let Kojima glaze your face because of MGS4 you aren't worth Shane's time.

 

[UntoldDreams]

Hating on Shane for his podcast antics is like...
You hating on Darth Vader for being the bad guy in a movie.

Its okay for you to dislike Darth Vader but if you start insulting the actor who plays Darth Vader then you know what? You're the crazy guy. Not him.

 

[mileS]

eznark you need a break from this thread.

 

[UntoldDreams]

I like podcast beyond (and I like 1up Yours as well) but there is a world of difference. Podcast beyond has no one near as pretentious (real/fake don't matter) as Bettenhausen, but I like it a ton less.

I don't think anyone has an issue with him liking the game, most are put off by his attitude of those who aren't 100% on Kojima's jock.

If you wouldn't let Kojima glaze your face because of MGS4 you aren't worth Shane's time.

He's an ACTOR for an EDGY PODCAST.

Good lord man! Let it go!

 

[eznark]

He's an ACTOR for an EDGY PODCAST.

Good lord man! Let it go!

meh, it's like disliking people on "reality" TV...it makes it much more fun.

 

[dammitmattt]

This is really all I need to hear on the subject. If Matt is finding the MGS4 controls uncomfortable, I'll find them completely incomprehensible.

I couldn't make heads or tails out of the GRAW controls. I understand what to do, it was just so overcomplicated it sucked the fun out for me.

You know, maybe it's easier for people who don't play as many different shooters as me?

The official thread is completely a love-in thread and I seem to be in the minority, but I play so many different games that it's extremely rare that I'm this uncomfortable for this long with the controls of a game.

 

[Kittonwy]

This is really all I need to hear on the subject. If Matt is finding the MGS4 controls uncomfortable, I'll find them completely incomprehensible.

I couldn't make heads or tails out of the GRAW controls. I understand what to do, it was just so overcomplicated it sucked the fun out for me.

It's not like GRAW, the character movement in general is like an action game where you just point your stick at the direction you want the character to go, kind of like Uncharted or GTAIV, when shooting you just press L1 to go into over the shoulder mode and R1 to fire your weapon and you can move around while holding L1 as well. To zoom into iron sight you can press triangle but you don't have to use iron sight if you don't want to. I don't like GRAW controls either but MGS4 isn't like GRAW. If you have no problem with Uncharted and GTAIV controls, MGS4 shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Mindlog]

He's an ACTOR for an EDGY PODCAST.

Good lord man! Let it go!

did you just say edgy podcast?

I'm not going to use the lol smiley. It wouldn't feel right, but I did.

 

[dammitmattt]

It's not like GRAW, the character movement in general is like an action game where you just point your stick at the direction you want the character to go, kind of like Uncharted or GTAIV, when shooting you just press L1 to go into over the shoulder mode and R1 to fire your weapon and you can move around while holding L1 as well. To zoom into iron sight you can press triangle but you don't have to use iron sight if you don't want to. I don't like GRAW controls either but MGS4 isn't like GRAW. If you have no problem with Uncharted and GTAIV controls, MGS4 shouldn't be a problem.

The problem is that those games aren't based around stealth and they both have better visual clues so you ALWAYS know when you are in cover. You're basically killing everything in sight in both Uncharted and GTA4, whereas you're trying NOT to kill things and NOT be seen in MGS4, and IF you are spotted then the consequences are severe.

Being a Metal Gear fan as well as someone who had absolutely no issues with Uncharted or GTA4's controls, I'm still not sure why I feel like I'm fighting MGS4 every step of the way, but I am.

I'm sure it will get better with a few more hours of play time, but it would be nice if I could get used to things without being constantly pulled out of the game for cutscenes every 5 minutes or so.

 

[Kittonwy]

The problem is that those games aren't based around stealth and they both have better visual clues so you ALWAYS know when you are in cover. You're basically killing everything in sight in both Uncharted and GTA4, whereas you're trying NOT to kill things and NOT be seen in MGS4, and IF you are spotted then the consequences are severe.

Being a Metal Gear fan as well as someone who had absolutely no issues with Uncharted or GTA4's controls, I'm still not sure why I feel like I'm fighting MGS4 every step of the way, but I am.

I'm sure it will get better with a few more hours of play time, but it would be nice if I could get used to things without being constantly pulled out of the game for cutscenes every 5 minutes or so.

You can execute stealth kills in Uncharted.

I think it's a good idea if you're sneaking that always be aware that you don't have to be super close to do a hold, it's better to be moving in a squat position and you have to let go of the stick otherwise you'll do a throw. I don't mind the cutscenes to be honest because some of the levels are pretty big and long stretches of high tension. Don't forget you can do a hold-up though, perhaps that's easier.

 

[Guileless]

PMCs exist because since the Cold War ended, most countries don't want to spend money training and equipping large standing armies. It's much cheaper to hire a PMC to do a specific job than to train and employ career soldiers capable of operating the highly advanced military hardware of today. The 'war economy' is less overall military spending.

Personally, I would be more 'haunted' by the possibility of being conscripted into a large standing army that is built for waging a global war with an opposing alliance of states under the very real specter of nuclear war than the idea of a several hundred voluntary employees of a PMC going to Somalia or Darfur for something or another.

 

[GhaleonQ]

Of course, Guileless. That should lead Kojima to explore his "dehumanization of war" theme more, but instead he treats "nanomachines" as "magic." Kagemusha this is not.

 

[DjangoReinhardt]

Of course, Guileless. That should lead Kojima to explore his "dehumanization of war" theme more, but instead he treats "nanomachines" as "magic." Kagemusha this is not.

They're not "magic"; they're "third-generation".

 

[Mindlog]

What is wrong with you guys? Shane thinks it's ridiculous that some reviewers rated The Bourne game the same MGS4. Why does him saying that cause such a backlash?

Shane is basically Robert Howarth

 

[reilo]

That was a pretty bad MGS4 discussion... they barely discussed the game and gameplay elements.

Too much arguing about how reviews should be approached rather than talking about new gameplay elements and why they actually liked MGS4.

 

[ravien56]

That was a pretty bad MGS4 discussion... they barely discussed the game and gameplay elements.

seeing how shane was the only one in the group who beat the game, garnett ragging on the gameplay elements was premature, based on his probably 2 hours of gameplay

 

[RobertM]

Read any wiki on MGS 2's plot in it's entirety and tell me it doesn't read like it was scrawled in human feces on the wall of a backwoods cabin.

Unlike you Shawn I have played and completed all of the MGS games more than once, and I don't need a website that's being edited by other people to tell me the story when I actually beat the game. I respect your opinion, but sometimes you forget the other the side of things.
Also watching cut scenes is not a substitute for playing the game.

 

[reilo]

seeing how shane was the only one in the group who beat the game, garnett ragging on the gameplay elements was premature, based on his probably 2 hours of gameplay

Should have scheduled Payton for next week then.

 

[zombi]

I was really hoping for some solid mgs4 discussion, especially since Ryan was on. I dont see the purpose of first impressions of a game thats out so Im hoping for a real in depth discussion next week. Too bad the questions or comments to Ryan were either: This is god on a BD, or your controls still confuse me in the most basic way. Nothing really of note, which is really too bad. Next week cmon baby.

 

[LCfiner]

seeing how shane was the only one in the group who beat the game, garnett ragging on the gameplay elements was premature, based on his probably 2 hours of gameplay

not quite. Skip also beat the game and was on the show. But he didn't speak up too much as he was watching sound levels, I guess. :\

He tried to bring up counterpoints to Shane's comments but it never really developed into a conversation.

 

[mileS]

Should have scheduled Payton for next week then.

He was in town for the big signing event... The guy lives in Japan its not as easy as you make it sound.

 

[ravien56]

Should have scheduled Payton for next week then.

yea I know, next time garnett and john speak about the game is going to be interesting, the only reason why Payton was even on the show was because hes doing a tour and is probably gonna be in Japan by next week

edit: beaten

 

[reilo]

He was in town for the big signing event... The guy lives in Japan its not as easy as you make it sound.

yea I know, next time garnett and john speak about the game is going to be interesting, the only reason why Payton was even on the show was because hes doing a tour and is probably gonna be in Japan by next week

edit: beaten

Then Garnett and John should have had the foresight and played the review copy ahead of time. Couldn't they have done that? It really killed the discussion.

 

[timmy]

Holy shit, did Shane really just say that MGS 4 made him think about PMCs for the first time? That's shameful, and I really don't think that Kojima should be extolled for enlightening the collective minds of the cultural Low End. If you're an adult and your worldview is so limited that you're learning about shit like this from a video game, even a very good one like MGS 4, then the boogeyman is not the war profiteers, it's you.

In all honesty, I don't think 1up Yours is really for me anymore. Make mine the Brodeo.

 

[zombi]

Then Garnett and John should have had the foresight and played the review copy ahead of time. Couldn't they have done that? It really killed the discussion.

Except they reviewed it in LA and the whole thing was super tight in terms of time (at least thats how it was described through that whole fiasco nda thing). Though they should have had Parish for 1up yours.

 

[mileS]

Then Garnett and John should have had the foresight and played the review copy ahead of time. Couldn't they have done that? It really killed the discussion.

The podcast was recorded on friday. the game came out on thursday...

Theres only so many review copies to go around the office. John and Garnett are playing the game on their own time and they have jobs unlike some of the people here that beat the game in less than a day.

Holy shit, did Shane really just say that MGS 4 made him think about PMCs for the first time? .

Maybe you need to give it another listen. He said it made him think about it more and minutes later he said its obviously not the first time he's thought about it.

some of you people are insane.

 

[TheGreatDave]

Oh man, an hour in and the Shane show is blowing up.

 

[Thomper]

Shawn's blogpiece about Metal Gear Solid 4 reviews:
http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=8772271&publicUserId=4551247

 

[Gbeav]

Why do people complain about Shane when he is on every 1up yours, don't listen to it. I only started listening after Luke left because I didn't want to complain all day like some people here...

You have a choice.

 

[eznark]

Shawn's blogpiece about Metal Gear Solid 4 reviews:
http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=8772271&publicUserId=4551247

I'm at work...what's the gist?

 

[adelante]

Damn, this is all building up to what i hope is gonna be a great GFW episode

 

[LCfiner]

Acid08, NeoGaf.com forums: "MGS's story raises the bar because of the themes it deals with. The whole military becoming a privatized corporation is completely believable and gives us a haunting look into what might be our future."



In one post, forum member X puts forward the chilling plausibility of MGS 4's plot and scenarios. In another, he lashes out at anyone with the audacity to hold him to it. 'Why should soft science fiction strive for realism?' he asks. And the answer is that it shouldn't. I'm challenging your claims, not MGS 4 producer Hideo Kojima and company's.



Part of a schizophrenic's paranoid soliloquy may contain cause for legitimate concern. But before he can consider the matter, he's carried away to larger, more sinister conspiracies, one on top of another until ultimately he arrives at something like the script for Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty. In MGS 4, a world in which corporations alone wage war becomes one in which those corporations use the Thetans of nano-tech to control the minds and bodies of their contractors, which becomes one in which artificial intelligences command the corporations along with the world's economy and media. Non-voters in the audience take refuge in the assumption that an all-powerful and despotic Illuminati is pulling the strings that pull the strings in an arrangement that ascends to someplace between a Prime Mover and blind destiny. Responsibility absolved.





Shane Bettenhausen, 1UP Yours: "When I see MGS transcending the medium, pushing the envelope... When I hear [people complain that there are] 'too many cutscenes,' I think, 'you're a peasant.' MGS 4 made me think about PMCs -- which, in a way, I hadn't before. The fact that [Kojima] brings up these real issues and brings them to light for people who don't really think about them...."



What exactly is it encouraging us to think, though? We're certainly not asking ourselves who pays Metal Gear's private military companies or how this take on a total war economy sustains itself. In the world we live in, the U.S. State Department spends American money to pay for security contractors. If in MGS 4's world, failed states are the PMCs chief clients, we should ask why. Smart money says the answers would involve "nations, ideologies, or ethnicities" -- the very motivators that almost everyone of the game's characters continually says are moot in an age of "endless proxy battles."



Nor are we asking who these militias are or what they're fighting for. Not once does the game give these militia members a face or voice. When twenty die beside us in battle, we don't see corpses; we see guns and unredeemed Drebin points -- a missed opportunity, considering the sense it makes for a living relic (Snake) to sympathize with rebels who defeat nano-tech stormtroopers and their battle bots with nothing but old-fashioned human resources and bulldozers.



Regardless, I have a "real issue" for Shane: Since when does indifference to Saturday morning melodrama, and lines like "If you won't be a prisoner to fate, then go fulfill your destiny!" make someone a peasant? Isn't it more incriminating to look at MGS 4's good fun as though it were a window on our future? And what about needing its flimflam to awaken an interest in the world around us? I'll leave that to NeoGaf's Linkzg, who jokingly writes, "I didn't understand that Nazis were evil until I came face to face with Hitler in a mech suit in Wolfenstein 3D."



Implausible stories can and do spur serious thought on important topics. But Wolfenstein 3D is not Brave New World, and until someone bothers to make a case that MGS 4 has something more to say about PMCs than that a Cheshire Cat arms broker profits up to the point that a rogue agent grabs control of the computer that runs the planet, then Guns of the Patriots is not 1984. If anything, Universal Soldier is the appropriate analogy. Or Battlefield Earth.



IGN review: "Is it possible to give a game an 11? If so, this would be the game that would merit that score. Metal Gear Solid 4 is a title that exceeds all the hype that was attached to the title."



GamePro review: "Every once in a long while a game will come along and change all the rules. Final Fantasy VII transformed the RPG genre, Resident Evil helped create a new sub-category of gaming -- survival horror -- and GTA III single-handedly reshaped the gaming landscape. And now comes Metal Gear Solid 4, a game whose potential influence on the current state of gaming is nothing short of tectonic."

GamePlayers review: "Gamers should be eternally grateful that such a game exists."


I can't believe my ears when, on 1UP Yours, Ryan Payton of Kojima Productions comments that "with triple-A titles, its almost like it's inherent [for reviewers] to start tearing down [a game's] different aspects." He's complaining about Edge magazine's 8-out-of-10 review score which sticks out where over a dozen 10-out-of-10s from other outlets don't. He's ignoring the many, many critics who sound more like a paid audience offering infomercial testimonials. MGS 4, they preach, is a rule-rewriting, paradigm-shifting, earth-moving, bar-raising, wheel-reinventing tour de force that presumably relieves headaches when applied directly to the forehead. We've left our own world at this point and find ourselves in a parallel dimension where man has invented fire, Alf, and little else. Throw in the insight of message board visitors like ThePure -- who, on Gametrailers.com's forums, posts that "Solid Snake is by far one of the best heroes of our generation, though it takes wise people to see this" -- and we've entered an alternate time line where Martin Luther King Jr. and Mother Theresa never lived and the measure of humanity is a gun-toting Houdini.


I respectfully disagree that reviewers are overly critical of triple-A titles and believe that the evidence in reviews of MGS 4, Grand Theft Auto IV, Call of Duty 4, and BioShock backs me. All of these are excellent games with big budgets. Critics gushed and gushed over each, and practically apologized after pointing out any of their problems. If MGS 4 doesn't sell by the millions it won't be for scathing reviews. The trouble, if there is any, lies in leading readers to believe that a videogame is the Second Coming...even if it is a lower-case fourth.

Should be a good GFW. After a bit more playtime, the soap opera melodrama in the game is really grating on me. I don't know how anyone can call this the pinnacle of game storytelling...

 

[Prawntoast]

Shawn's blogpiece about Metal Gear Solid 4 reviews:
http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=8772271&publicUserId=4551247

Props to Shawn for calling out Shane and his 'peasants' comment on 1UP Yours last week.

It's going to be a fun day at 1UP towers.

It would be interesting if Shane posted a counterpoint on the site, defending his position.

 

[mikekennyb]

Even if Shane didn't know about PMC's until playing MGS 4.... really, its not like he should be derided for it. You take the average person, and they probably don't even know what that acronym stands for. I think its' great that the game taught him something and made him think. Isn't this the exact thing that people are always asking for? Games that take on real world issues and make you broaden your perspective on them? Furthermore, the fact that this was taken on by a Japanese developer is not something that I would have expected, but is awesome nonetheless.

 

[Y2Kev]

I think he phrased it wrong, but he meant to say, "MGS4 made me think about PMCs in a way I hadn't before," rather than, "MGS4 made me think about PMCs which, in a way, I hadn't before."

The first I think is pretty reasonable. The second is kind of like...pay attention.

That said...YOU'RE ALL PEASANTS.

 

[HK-47]

Shawn's blogpiece about Metal Gear Solid 4 reviews:
http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=8772271&publicUserId=4551247

Ahem

 

[GhaleonQ]

I'm at work...what's the gist?

It's a response-based thing that quotes other enthusiast outlets, here, and 1-Up employees.

1. NeoGAF guy: The story's believable and troubling.

Shawn: The story is really stupid (for the reasons that he often mentions) and isn't troubling because no one has culpability except the 5 or 6 main characters. Its themes are undermined by its layers of conspiracy and the true creators of the problems.

2. Shane: the military contractors thing (larger issue: the story's serious and thematically coherent!)

Shawn: He sort-of-quotes me (my heart's aflutter!) regarding what it makes us think about military contractors, since that's the real question. The game wants us to stop P.M.C.'s by shutting off their revenue. What are the sources of their revenue? In Metal Gear Solid 4, they're hired by states torn apart by ethnic, religious, and regional conflict, the very thing Metal Gear Solid 4 says doesn't exist.

The game preaches against the mechanization of war, and then portrays allies as helper bots, at best. Then, he makes fun of Shane for not paying grasping national, U.S. news until video games shows him how.

3. IGN and company: 11! 11! 11! 11!

Big budget games should either be treated like "just games," in which case non-10 scores aren't taboos, or like serious entertainment (what marketers are telling everyone), in which case they shouldn't receive 10's because they don't match "10" movies or books (I think).

 

[Tieno]

Shawn's blogpiece about Metal Gear Solid 4 reviews:
http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=8772271&publicUserId=4551247

That's why you need Shawn on 1up yours, the others just can't cut through bullshit like Shawn can. Embarrassing.

 

[skip]

That's why you need Shawn on 1up yours, the others just can't cut through bullshit like Shawn can. Embarrassing.

I know right I feel bad asking him to leave oh wait I didn't

 

[Tieno]

I know right I feel bad asking him to leave oh wait I didn't

I know he left on his own will and I said 1upyours is poorer for it.

 

[skip]

I know he left on his own will and I said 1upyours is poorer for it.

well thank god that GFW Radio still exists.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

well thank god that GFW Radio still exists.

The best post in this thread. Not to slight 1Up Yours.

 

[GhaleonQ]

skip, maybe I missed it, but have you planned this week's show yet? Can we expect no-holds-barred Metal Gearin' this week or next?