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[Admiral Woofington]

Amazing, thank you. Would you know the world size of the Witcher? Larger, smaller then the Dragon Age?

No clue. My initial guess is that the world of Witcher 3 is larger they've been tooting it quite a bit as very large. Whether there is just as much to do remains to be seen/heard when we are given more info and videos of the game in action.

 

[ColdRose]

Fist of all, awesome OP!

Second, I can't fucking wait!
Third, I can't fucking wait!
Fourth, I can't fucking wait!
Fifth, I can't fucking wait!
Sixth, I can't fucking wait!
E. T. C.

Hype infinity....

One question, what is the main thing that separates this and Witcher 3 as far as gameplay goes? How are the world's different? Why is this game not as hype as the Witcher?

I'd say the main thing is that Dragon Age games are party-based, so the combat and exploration and, well, everything, is kind of centred around that. Also the combat is less actiony than Witcher. The DA world is less bleak, I would say - grim things still happen but in my experience there has been more scope for humour and light-heartedness, whereas I find the Witcher world quite grimdark (just my opinion, obviously).

As for the hype, well, TW2 was very well-received, Dragon Age 2 not so much. Plus CDPR has built up a lot of goodwill (free dlc, no drm policy etc) and is much-loved by pc gamers for putting a very strong focus on its PC development. Meanwhile, Bioware has been plagued by things like day-one dlc controversy, EA's always-online policy, and has regularly been accused of 'dumbing down' their games for consoles since Bio was purchased by EA (even though they've been making games for consoles practically since they began). Also, some of EA's marketing for previous Bio games has been a bit poor. Fortunately, the marketing for Inquisition has been pretty good, there is no day one dlc, and Bioware have been very honest and transparent about the game's development, so things are looking up. Also, Inquisition looks great, which helps

 

[iJudged]

The Witcher 2 and 3 are more action-y and built around playing as a single character, whereas Dragon Age is built around having a 4-person party. Accordingly it's more focused on exploiting enemy weaknesses and building a balanced party that has enough offense, defense, and crowd control to handle a variety of encounters.



Unfortunately I'm no expert on Witcher lore, but I think the worlds are similar in some ways. There's the focus on racism, for example. TW3 seems more interested in politics between countries built against a fairy tale-esque backdrop, whereas Dragon Age focuses more on politics within a country and how various religions have influenced the social constructs of the world.



DA2 left a sour taste in a lot of people's mouths whereas TW2 was generally well-received. Lately though there's been a lot of positive buzz about DA: I, and it's been sitting at the #1 most popular upcoming game on Gamespot's site tracking metrics for awhile.

Omg amazing, thank you for the beautiful reply. I was watching some videos of the Dragon Age and the world detail and size really amazed me. I am beyond hyped, my 6 hour early access starts tonight and I just can't wait to dig into it.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

I won't call myself an expert as I haven't read the novels in quite some time and will need a refresher before Witcher 3 of the lore. But there are similarities yes. Racism is definitely one of them. There's a group called the Scoia'tael which are basically the dalish elves, but they also accept dwarves and other races. But they're closer to terrorists.

The difference lies in that where Dragon Age tends to be about saving the world and being at the forefront of everything, The Witcher's Geralt is more about keeping to himself and only getting involved when necessary. He's the ultimate neutral character in the novels. The games are much more personal such as rescuing somebody or things of the sort, he just happens to get caught in big conflicts.

 

[Special C]

I played DA:O and killed Flemeth. I heard she did make an appearance in DA:2 so I guess she didn't actually die?

Also can someone descibe some events in DA:2 relative to choices made in DA:O?

 

[Admiral Woofington]

I played DA:O and killed Flemeth. I heard she did make an appearance in DA:2 so I guess she didn't actually die?

Also can someone descibe some events in DA:2 relative to choices made in DA:O?

Not much from DAO affected DA2 outside of a few dialogue sections here and there, but it makes sense since it's a self contained city story. The biggest effect of DAO choices is that in one of the acts Alistair shows up. He's either a grey warden, a drunk, or a king and you can chat with him at the bar. Besides that though, nothing much.

 

[Brohan]

So i've read through the lore in the OP a bit, much of it was still familiar to me as i completed DaO and the awakening expansion quite some time ago (don't really remember everything though).

However i bought DA2 and then played it for a few hours only to never touch it again.

So my questions are: Can i play the new dragon age without having played DA2? Is the mage rebellion the only real important thing to take away from DA2? Or was there some important stuff regarding morrigan / Flemeth?

 

[Ralemont]

So i've read through the lore in the OP a bit, much of it was still familiar to me as i completed DaO and the awakening expansion quite some time ago (don't really remember everything though).

However i bought DA2 and then played it for a few hours only to never touch it again.

So my question is: Can i play the new dragon age without having played DA2? Is the mage rebellion the only real important thing to take away from DA2? Or was there some important stuff regarding morrigan / Flemming?

The start of the mage rebellion and finding Corypheus are probably the only things you really need to know about DA2. It seems Hawke will be playing a significant role in Inquisition and obviously Varric does as well, but there's little brushing up you can do on that end without playing through the game.

Flemeth makes an appearance at the start of DA2 but that's it. Morrigan isn't in it at all. Any connection to Origins in DA2 is usually cameo-level.

 

[cjp]

I've got Act 3 to finish in DA2 before Inquisition comes out. Never touched Awakening.

Still can't decide between Templars and Mages though. My Hawke is a mage but... I don't know, it's hard.

 

[Brohan]

The start of the mage rebellion and finding Corypheus are probably the only things you really need to know about DA2. It seems Hawke will be playing a significant role in Inquisition and obviously Varric does as well, but there's little brushing up you can do on that end without playing through the game.

Flemeth makes an appearance at the start of DA2 but that's it. Morrigan isn't in it at all. Any connection to Origins in DA2 is usually cameo-level.

Ok Thank you very much, guess i'll just have to miss out on some references and certain info because i have no plans to play DA2.

I just hope it's all doable and that the new dragon age won't have me scratching my head all the time because of things i missed by not playing DA2.

 

[CrichtonKicks]

I played DA:O and killed Flemeth. I heard she did make an appearance in DA:2 so I guess she didn't actually die?

The prologue in DA2 takes place before you can killer her in DA:O. In that prologue Flemeth helps the party on the promise that they take a stone to a sacred site near Kirkwall.

In Act I of DA2, which takes place after all of DA:O (and therefore after you may have killed her), you take the stone to the site and Flemeth essentialy emerges from it. The supposition being that she put some form of her essence into the stone and is resurrected through it.

 

[Ralemont]

Ok Thank you very much, guess i'll just have to miss out on some references and certain info because i have no plans to play DA2.

I just hope it's all doable and that the new dragon age won't have me scratching my head all the time because of things i missed by not playing DA2.

As long as you have knowledge of the two 9:40 Dragon timeline events I listed (there's a Civil war in Orlais, mages and templars are at war and the Chantry is trying to negotiate a peace) I think you'll be okay, as the game will likely explain the finer details through dialogue or by the codex.

 

[MaddenNFL64]

you basically couldn't survive without the ritual, and even then there's a high number of casualties from it. The game hasn't really gone into somebody who has drank archdemon blood and survived without the ritual as far as I know.

Its archdemon blood, darkspawn blood, and lyrium. Its a warden secret.

edit: the first wardens used the blood from dumat to complete the ritual. Dumat was slain multiple times (by non wardens obviously), but kept coming back. His blood was plentiful.

 

[MaddenNFL64]

Yeah I leaned towards this as well, although you may never know.

The whole Black City-Andraste-Maker stories fascinate me. I tend to believe that Andraste actually existed, as is the Maker, considering the shadows on the Urn Trial in DA1, but then again.......... those people merely *perceived* that the one talking to Andraste is the Maker... who knows, the Maker may be just an extremely powerful demon.

Remember what Oghren said about the mountains that house the temple of sacred ashes. The whole thing is infused with tons of lyrium. He supposed thats what imbibed the ashes with power, and kept the guardian alive.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Thanks for this, can't wait to get the game next week!

 

[Uthred]

Because most mages are locked in the Circles, so if you meet a mage under any other circumstances they're probably apostate. Apostate doesn't necessarily equal blood mage, but it does when Bioware's writers are trying to anviliciously drive home a point.

The highlight being when you as the PC could be a blood mage while your companions, who have seen you blood maging it up like a mother fucker, are roundly condeming blood mages

 

[Brohan]

As long as you have knowledge of the two 9:40 Dragon timeline events I listed (there's a Civil war in Orlais, mages and templars are at war and the Chantry is trying to negotiate a peace) I think you'll be okay, as the game will likely explain the finer details through dialogue or by the codex.

Thanks again .

Much appreciated.

 

[Philippo]

Based Dragon Age-Gaf, now i feel a bit like this:

 

[luxarific]

Loghain was a lot more understandable if you read the tie-in novel.

I read the tie-in novel and I thought it made Loghain's actions in DAO even less understandable. Loghain was the friend of King Maric, Cailan's (and Alistair's) father and the book goes into some detail re the strength of their friendship. They had disagreements for sure, but nothing that would warrant the full-scale betrayal that Loghain committed at Ostagar.

Loghain's betrayal is only really understandable if you know that Cailan may have been planning to divorce Anora in favor of hooking up with the Empress (due to Anora's infertility).

Anyways, I've been reading Last Flight. Pretty good! Hope we get a hint that griffons are still around or can be reintroduced in DAI. Also hope we get a ton of cameos/missions with people from DAO and DAI. I will be very bummed if Anders, Fenris, Isabella, and Alistair don't show up somewhere.

 

[Enduin]

I read the tie-in novel and I thought it made Loghain's actions in DAO even less understandable. Loghain was the friend of King Maric, Cailan's (and Alistair's) father and the book goes into some detail re the strength of their friendship. They had disagreements for sure, but nothing that would warrant the full-scale betrayal that Loghain committed at Ostagar.

Loghain's betrayal is only really understandable if you know that Cailan may have been planning to divorce Anora in favor of hooking up with the Empress (due to Anora's infertility).

Anyways, I've been reading Last Flight. Pretty good! Hope we get a hint that griffons are still around or can be reintroduced in DAI. Also hope we get a ton of cameos/missions with people from DAO and DAI. I will be very bummed if Anders, Fenris, Isabella, and Alistair don't show up somewhere.

Agreed. Why this was cut is beyond me, it's really the only good justification for why Loghain would do what he did knowing full well how huge a gamble it was for the country. Everything from the Stolen Throne is only good in giving that missing plot point greater support, otherwise without that divorce subplot he just comes across as a lunatic who threw his country into chaos for super vague and unlikely reasons.

I always found the overarching plot of DAO to be rather poor. It's super generic and bare bones. Loghain was a laughable antagonist who felt like he did what he did more to setup and advance the plot rather than any believable reason or justification he thought true.

 

[Shining Sunshine]

I only play Dragon Age to bang the ladies.

 

[Felspawn]

i dont know if its been pointed out yet but here is a little history of the elves, When elvan kind encountered humans it was quickly discovered that any mating between Elves and Humans ALWAYS ended up with human kids. there are no Half - Elves in Dragon Age. The Elves afraid that they would go extinct pushed away from Humanity and closed their borders. The Humans of the growing Tevinter empire took this as a sign of Hostility by the elves and launched a preemptive attack. That attack and the resulting shattering and razing of the main Elf cities destroyed Elvan culture. It was further degraded by the Tevinter taking on Elves as their preferred slave race. After Andraste came along and Helped Break the Tevinter Empire the Elves were given freedom and the Dales as a "Thanks for Helping out". Elf Civilization started to repair itself slowly at this point. Unfortunately because elves didnt want to pray to the Chantry, instead praying to their old gods. This pissed off the church and they led a few Exalted Marches which once again destroyed the elves and left them a shell of their former selves. Most elves ended up in Alienages (aka Ghettos) under the thumb of human oppressors. The elves that escaped with the regained knowledge of the Dales became the Dalish (thus thier name). The Dalish are still a shadow of their Pre-Tevinter civiliztion. In Dragon Age 1 you could play as a Dalish or City elf, the DEFAULT world state in DAI actually assumes the Warden was a Dalish.

Hope some of that helps. I personally am looking forward to being a Dalish Mage, something we havent been able to do until this point.

 

[Swangod]

Thanks Ralemont for posting this! It's really nice for someone like me who hasn't played the first 2 games.

What race and character type do you play as? Are there advantages/disadvantages of choosing a human over an elf... etc.? Also what are the different types of characters are there? eg Mage, Barbarian etc.

I just pre ordered from MS Store... 15k rewards credits is nice. I'm so F'in back logged on games now. Especially when I get this next Tues!

 

[Ralemont]

Thanks Ralemont for posting this! It's really nice for someone like me who hasn't played the first 2 games.

What race and character type do you play as? Are there advantages/disadvantages of choosing a human over an elf... etc.? Also what are the different types of characters are there? eg Mage, Barbarian etc.

Normally my first playthrough is human warrior because I'm boring, but I plan to play elf and Qunari eventually.

Gameplay-wise here are the racial bonuses for Inquisition:

10% bonus towards melee defense for Qunari

25% bonus towards magic defense for Dwarves

25% bonus towards ranged defense for Elves (this includes magic projectiles)

1 extra ability point for Humans

Story-wise, you'll encounter more negativity towards your character if you're an elf or Qunari. The game reacts towards your race through dialogue. It'd not a disadvantage so much as a different experience.

Classes are mage, rogue, warrior. There are 4 skill trees for each class, and you can choose one specialization tree to further customize your character.

So for example, I'll be a Human Warrior that focuses on the 2-handed and Battlemaster skillt trees, with a Reaver specialization to add damage and vampiric abilities.

 

[Swangod]

Normally my first playthrough is human warrior because I'm boring, but I plan to play elf and Qunari eventually.

What are you Dwarf hater? haha.

Thanks for posting that info. In Skyrim I was a one handed warrior on my first character and 2nd was a mage. For some reason I'm leaning mage in DA:I. Do the rogue or warrior have spells they cast at all? Or just increase armor and weapons skills? Are there sockets for weapons? Do you blacksmith your own gear like in Skyrim? Sorry for so many questions.

 

[Kirie]

Kotaku just released a beginners lore guide to all things Dragon Age: http://kotaku.com/a-beginners-guide-to-all-things-dragon-age-1658487212 A few nitpicks like it saying Leliana not being in DA2 (I mean she was barely, but still) but it's still a nice overview.

 

[Ralemont]

What are you Dwarf hater? haha.

Thanks for posting that info. In Skyrim I was a one handed warrior on my first character and 2nd was a mage. For some reason I'm leaning mage in DA:I. Do the rogue or warrior have spells they cast at all? Or just increase armor and weapons skills? Are there sockets for weapons? Do you blacksmith your own gear like in Skyrim? Sorry for so many questions.

They don't have spells but they have abilities that can function similarly. Yes there are upgrade slots in weapons that you can put stuff like runes in for + stats, elemental affinity, or special runes that increase health on killing an enemy and other cool stuff.

There's a deep crafting system in the game but the Inquisitor doesn't do it himself, there's a blacksmith at Skyhold (your castle) for you to use.

 

[Felspawn]

Loghain's betrayal is only really understandable if you know that Cailan may have been planning to divorce Anora in favor of hooking up with the Empress (due to Anora's infertility).
.

Yeah that part is pretty important to know, and its not exactly something you read about in game. As far as i know though its still considered Canon.

 

[Felspawn]

One question i have about the Dragon Age Keep, is there any place to specify that you hardened Alistair and Lelianna's character?

 

[ColdRose]

One question i have about the Dragon Age Keep, is there any place to specify that you hardened Alistair and Lelianna's character?

Not specifically - you can state that you met Goldanna and that you had Leliana kill Marjolaine, but I think that's all.

 

[Damerman]

Agreed. Why this was cut is beyond me, it's really the only good justification for why Loghain would do what he did knowing full well how huge a gamble it was for the country. Everything from the Stolen Throne is only good in giving that missing plot point greater support, otherwise without that divorce subplot he just comes across as a lunatic who threw his country into chaos for super vague and unlikely reasons.

I always found the overarching plot of DAO to be rather poor. It's super generic and bare bones. Loghain was a laughable antagonist who felt like he did what he did more to setup and advance the plot rather than any believable reason or justification he thought true.

Agreed with you both, but lets not forget Loghains irrational fear of Orlesians. The book made it pretty clear why his fears were irrational to. Not only was Cailan waiting for support from them which would mean allowing them into Ferelden, but he did want to get with the empress.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Great OP, but forgot Sandal.

He's an incredibly important part of the lore for such a small character. His prophecy of the Maker coming back in DA2.

Uh oh.

Even more uh oh if you knew what I've done in DA:I.

.... so now my first run is probably going to be the one with Loghain alive in it.

 

[indigo-cyclops]

The Witcher 2 and 3 are more action-y and built around playing as a single character, whereas Dragon Age is built around having a 4-person party. Accordingly it's more focused on exploiting enemy weaknesses and building a balanced party that has enough offense, defense, and crowd control to handle a variety of encounters.



Unfortunately I'm no expert on Witcher lore, but I think the worlds are similar in some ways. There's the focus on racism, for example. TW3 seems more interested in politics between countries built against a fairy tale-esque backdrop, whereas Dragon Age focuses more on politics within a country and how various religions have influenced the social constructs of the world.



DA2 left a sour taste in a lot of people's mouths whereas TW2 was generally well-received. Lately though there's been a lot of positive buzz about DA: I, and it's been sitting at the #1 most popular upcoming game on Gamespot's site tracking metrics for awhile.

Witcher, I'd say, is more about the different social classes and races and how the politics of each coexist. The world is not built around a "fairy-tale esque" backdrop, though. It's based more in folklore, and is very dark and oppressive. Magic seems to work differently, if only slightly, and seems to be more prevalent in the Witcher universe in regards to the common folk.

I tend to think Dragon Age is slightly more fantastical than the Witcher, but both are RPGs that have a strong focus on politics and things like that.

 

[Ralemont]

Great OP, but forgot Sandal.

He's an incredibly important part of the lore for such a small character. His prophecy of the Maker coming back in DA2.

I tried to avoid characters and individuals as I think Shinobi will be covering them in his OT.

 

[anexanhume]

Here's Kotaku's guide

http://kotaku.com/a-beginners-guide-to-all-things-dragon-age-1658487212

 

[Verger]

My initial issue with Dragon Age lore/worldbuilding when it was revealed long ago was:

"Here we go again with the Humans, Elves and Dwarves. Same old Tolkien Fantasy tropes as always. Nothing new and interesting."

Granted, they switched things up a bit by having the Elves be outcasts and Dwarves being antisocial, although some of that was already done in the Witcher series.

Kind of wish they had tried to do things more interesting with new kinds of races. I guess the Qunari count, but when they were first revealed they looked completely uninteresting in DA:O with Sten and some others being the only ones you saw, who were pretty plain/bland design-wise.

 

[luxarific]

Yeah that part is pretty important to know, and its not exactly something you read about in game. As far as i know though its still considered Canon.

It's hinted at by the three letters addressed to Cailen that you can pick up in the Return to Ostragar DLC. Apparently there is also some banter with Loghain that discusses it too, according to the wiki, but I've never heard it.

Non-game: Gaider confirmed that it was a dropped plotline from DAO.

Agreed. Why this was cut is beyond me, it's really the only good justification for why Loghain would do what he did knowing full well how huge a gamble it was for the country. Everything from the Stolen Throne is only good in giving that missing plot point greater support, otherwise without that divorce subplot he just comes across as a lunatic who threw his country into chaos for super vague and unlikely reasons.

I always found the overarching plot of DAO to be rather poor. It's super generic and bare bones. Loghain was a laughable antagonist who felt like he did what he did more to setup and advance the plot rather than any believable reason or justification he thought true.

Yeah, the battle at Ostagar is just such a weird/obvious plot device, it's just eye-rollingly bad. I still loved DAO, even with its plot issues - the world that Bioware created is just so rich and alive. And DAO is just a glimpse at Thedas, which is astonishing, given how much content is in that game. Like everything we learn about the Qun in DA2 and Mask of the Assassin (which is an essential bit of DLC, imo) - you barely learn anything about the Qun in DAO.

DA's world is one of the most interesting fantasy universes created in the past decade, imo. Given that it is the background to a series of games (primarily) is just amazing. Kudos to Bioware for creating it and kudos to EA for letting them do it.

 

[Entropy912]

Loghain's betrayal is only really understandable if you know that Cailan may have been planning to divorce Anora in favor of hooking up with the Empress (due to Anora's infertility).

Whoa I played both games and didn't know this. I thought Loghain was just another power hungry asshole. If this was in DA:O it would have made the decision at the Landsmeet a lot more complicated.

 

[Dizzy-4U]

Kotaku just released a beginners lore guide to all things Dragon Age: http://kotaku.com/a-beginners-guide-to-all-things-dragon-age-1658487212 A few nitpicks like it saying Leliana not being in DA2 (I mean she was barely, but still) but it's still a nice overview.

This is really good too.

 

[Ralemont]

Whoa I played both games and didn't know this. I thought Loghain was just another power hungry asshole. If this was in DA:O it would have made the decision at the Landsmeet a lot more complicated.

Yeah, most of the nuance is absent in the vanilla game. Here were my thoughts on Loghain during my first playthrough: cowardly shithead that tried to use the Blight to consolidate his power in Ferelden, oh and he was also poisoning the Arl of Redcliffe.

 

[ColdRose]

My initial issue with Dragon Age lore/worldbuilding when it was revealed long ago was:

"Here we go again with the Humans, Elves and Dwarves. Same old Tolkien Fantasy tropes as always. Nothing new and interesting."

Granted, they switched things up a bit by having the Elves be outcasts and Dwarves being antisocial, although some of that was already done in the Witcher series.

Kind of wish they had tried to do things more interesting with new kinds of races. I guess the Qunari count, but when they were first revealed they looked completely uninteresting in DA:O with Sten and some others being the only ones you saw, who were pretty plain/bland design-wise.

While familiar races were used (presumably to make their new IP an easier sell), I thought Bio did a pretty good job of distinguishing them from high fantasy. I thought the Dwarves were fantastic in Origins and really not very Tolkienesque at all - the political scheming, rigid caste-based society, ancestor/paragon worship, Legion of the Dead, the Deep Roads and being the ones who hold back (and are pushed back by) the Darkspawn in between Blights, gradually losing their Thaigs and being cut off from one another. Their story is a bit of a tragedy really, I love it. The only Tolkienesque thing about them is that they mine and work with stone. In fact, the most stereotypically crude, beer-guzzling dwarf we meet (Oghren) is treated like a bit of a pariah partly because of those attributes.

Elves, yeah, are pretty similar to Witcher elves, though less extreme I think - though the novel Masked Empire offers some insight into their past that is pretty cool - it seems that back when they held all the power, they weren't exactly the noble, gracious but skittish creatures of Tolkien, they were pretty mean to their own.

I guess the Darkspawn would be the DA equivalent of orcs? Even there, there's something more going on than mindless servants of evil - intelligent darkspawn like the Architect seemingly seeking a different path (an intelligent darkspawn can even become a bit of a hero in the DA:Awakening epilogue if the Warden lets him live)

 

[Entropy912]

Yeah, most of the nuance is absent in the vanilla game. Here were my thoughts on Loghain during my first playthrough: cowardly shithead that tried to use the Blight to consolidate his power in Ferelden, oh and he was also poisoning the Arl of Redcliffe.

Yeah exactly. A post in another DA:I thread went something like "you're a monster if you let Loghain live" which I thought was hilarious because its so true. He was clearly the bad guy in DA:O so his fate was sealed in my eyes before the landsmeet even happened.

 

[Damerman]

Whoa I played both games and didn't know this. I thought Loghain was just another power hungry asshole. If this was in DA:O it would have made the decision at the Landsmeet a lot more complicated.

In the books, Loghain goes through some very traumatic stuff at the hands of orlesians. If you play DAO again, you will notice Loghain's apprehension when Cailan accepts help from Orlesians and allows them to enter the country.

 

[Teeth]

"Here we go again with the Humans, Elves and Dwarves. Same old Tolkien Fantasy tropes as always. Nothing new and interesting."

Granted, they switched things up a bit by having the Elves be outcasts and Dwarves being antisocial, although some of that was already done in the Witcher series.

Kind of wish they had tried to do things more interesting with new kinds of races. I guess the Qunari count, but when they were first revealed they looked completely uninteresting in DA:O with Sten and some others being the only ones you saw, who were pretty plain/bland design-wise.

I guess if you discount Elves, Quanari, multiple religions, mages, political controls, dwarven motivations and lifestyle, motivations/actions/lore of the darkspawn, the Fade, the different ruling classes, and the entire history of all of the peoples, it's pretty much exactly the same as Tolkien's works.

 

[SimpleGamer]

Subscribed! Gonna read later on tonight.

 

[Deified Data]

Whoa I played both games and didn't know this. I thought Loghain was just another power hungry asshole. If this was in DA:O it would have made the decision at the Landsmeet a lot more complicated.

Nah, he sold elves into slavery and sanctioned torture in his own lands. Dude deserves no quarter. A strong man learns from hardship, he doesn't let it consume his soul.

 

[Entropy912]

In the books, Loghain goes through some very traumatic stuff at the hands of orlesians. If you play DAO again, you will notice Loghain's apprehension when Cailan accepts help from Orlesians and allows them to enter the country.

Care to elaborate for someone who didn't read the books? I'm intrigued at the idea that Loghain wasn't as big of an asshole as I originally thought

 

[Felspawn]

It's hinted at by the three letters addressed to Cailen that you can pick up in the Return to Ostragar DLC. Apparently there is also some banter with Loghain that discusses it too, according to the wiki, but I've never heard it.

Non-game: Gaider confirmed that it was a dropped plotline from DAO.



Yeah, the battle at Ostagar is just such a weird/obvious plot device, it's just eye-rollingly bad. I still loved DAO, even with its plot issues - the world that Bioware created is just so rich and alive. And DAO is just a glimpse at Thedas, which is astonishing, given how much content is in that game. Like everything we learn about the Qun in DA2 and Mask of the Assassin (which is an essential bit of DLC, imo) - you barely learn anything about the Qun in DAO.

DA's world is one of the most interesting fantasy universes created in the past decade, imo. Given that it is the background to a series of games (primarily) is just amazing. Kudos to Bioware for creating it and kudos to EA for letting them do it.

Even if the quest itself involving it was cut from the game because of time reasons, there are still enough hints to it, (including the leaders in Return to Ostagar) that i still consider it canon, and its why Logain is alive in my games. It just makes the story better, he is less the cartoon villian and more believable.

 

[ColdRose]

Care to elaborate for someone who didn't read the books? I'm intrigued at the idea that Loghain wasn't as big of an asshole as I originally thought

Stolen Throne spoilers:

Spoiler

As a child, he is forced to watch as a group of Orlesian chevaliers rape and murder his mother, then several years later his father also dies at Orlesian hands.

Edit: This takes place during the long standing occupation of Ferelden by Orlais. The Orlesians really weren't very nice, to put it mildly, and the occupation was very hard on Ferelden - the Chevaliers (knights) in particular were a brutal and arrogant bunch of bastards.

 

[Felspawn]

Care to elaborate for someone who didn't read the books? I'm intrigued at the idea that Loghain wasn't as big of an asshole as I originally thought

nvm beaten

i've always wondered if the fact that Maric ended up in a Marriage of Convenience with his Queen (who happened to be in love with Loghain before she died) had anything to do with Logain not being as loyal to the Throne as he could be