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First Tomb Raider Review out in the wild - Embargo up on Monday 02/25
- Thread starter NotTheGuyYouKill
- Start date
You can point out plenty of examples where a drastic change in formula wasnt a success. Maybe it will be good. Maybe it wont. Thanks for pointing that out.
This is probably the one review I'll actually give some credit to. They've been pretty critical of the game so far, and they tend to tell it straight with their impressions.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
I'm looking forward to the reviews. Be interesting to see the commonalities and differences. Wonder if Rhianna came through with the narrative.
Blood everywhere.
Blood everywhere.
I was upset with it then. Actiony QTE-filled bullshit. Now they do a reboot and have a chance to get away from the baggage they created and instead they make the baggage the entire game.
Spazznid
Member
After watching the latest "Final Hours" episode on TR from Gametrailers, they mentioned her hair and how it needs to be as realistic and well animated as possible, so I can definitely see it being that new ATI tech, I just hope we can force it on Nvidia cards like ATI with PhysX.
Also, lol.
I never liked GAF's opinion on things. YES, I'm generalizing and YES, sometimes I have similar opinions, but there's always this elitism involved with a lot of things here. There's genuine discussion and behind that there's brewing one-sidedness. Games that are completely different than their previous incarnations have a 50/50 chance of being celebrated. Usually it will be decided by the first piece of media or news regarding said games.
As soon as Trailer one comes out and one guy notices, "Oh, she sure is moaning an awful lot...", or, "Where's the horror? I want horror, not this PoS Action-Shooter!", or even, "LOL @ Name, I already forgot! Looks too much like Batman gameplay." etc.
All of these are valid concerns, but neither of them affects the integrity of the respective games.
It's better to judge a game on why people like it or dislike it rather than listening to ratings, or people slamming the game for stupid details.
So far I love the new Lara, the setting, the dirt, the voice acting, and the combat looks pretty intense at times. I don't know if I like the collecting, but hopefully it won't be too tedious or will be rewarding enough to compensate. I can't wait to play on PC.
Also, lol.
I never liked GAF's opinion on things. YES, I'm generalizing and YES, sometimes I have similar opinions, but there's always this elitism involved with a lot of things here. There's genuine discussion and behind that there's brewing one-sidedness. Games that are completely different than their previous incarnations have a 50/50 chance of being celebrated. Usually it will be decided by the first piece of media or news regarding said games.
As soon as Trailer one comes out and one guy notices, "Oh, she sure is moaning an awful lot...", or, "Where's the horror? I want horror, not this PoS Action-Shooter!", or even, "LOL @ Name, I already forgot! Looks too much like Batman gameplay." etc.
All of these are valid concerns, but neither of them affects the integrity of the respective games.
It's better to judge a game on why people like it or dislike it rather than listening to ratings, or people slamming the game for stupid details.
So far I love the new Lara, the setting, the dirt, the voice acting, and the combat looks pretty intense at times. I don't know if I like the collecting, but hopefully it won't be too tedious or will be rewarding enough to compensate. I can't wait to play on PC.
No shit. I completely agree.
There were guys in here who claim Hitman absolution was not a stealth game. And when I asked what is stealth game, they couldn't answer.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
The Final Hours stuff worth a watch?
It's up today/tomorrow (depending on where you live). Monday, 25th.
Raitosaito
Member
Hitman absolution was a stealth game, just a terrible one.
The review says there are not many QTEs
and because?
I would say a stealth game is one in which stealth is the only way to complete a mission. There might be other options, but they should be much more difficult since failure to be stealthy in a stealth game should be punished severely so as to discourage any other method.
I've only played the first level, but from that, I wasn't punished for fucking up. I could kill people and hide them after being spotted and it didn't really affect the way I treated the level.
But, again, I've only played the first level.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=506518
Scan through that thread. Or just the first post and the last page of it where I get to the end.
Spazznid
Member
eh, it's pretty much stuff we've seen a;ready, although if you've watched the escape gameplay, it shows something that takes place right after that I myself would've rather not been spoiled... Not story related, just, it won't have the intended effect on me now that I've seen it out of context...
Lara uses her newfound Lighter to heat an arrowhead to burn her wounds closed
Hitman may not have been a great stealth game, but I hear it was a really good game. Also, there weren't that many QTE's in the newer TR games... Even so, I know a few people who like a few QTE's, more than that even. Everybody wins.
I'm not sure how many games can be 'stealth' game in this industry to exactly fit this criteria.
For me, stealth game is giving people option to play stealth throughout the game and give benefit for being stealth.
For hitman absolution it is actually more fun and rewarding to be stealthy throughout the game and gave players number of different options to play (for example you don't have to take costumes for entire game. You can absolutely play in suit throughout the game and it gives you reward for it)
Metal Gear Solid, (yeah tactical espionage action but it is stealth game.) for me it is FAR easier to just go Rambo everything. But who can argue that it is not a stealth game?
same here. It's the only site worth of some credit nowadays, in my opinion
Rubbish. It's one of the only stealth designed games this gen, and they released a patch that made the disguise system much less finicky and broken. It had better stealth design than Human Revolution, vents that funnel you through checkpoints and turning invisible sort of makes the stealth elements in that game a joke.
I only mention Human Revolution because there have been like half a dozen stealth games this gen. If you have problems with using stealth in Absolution, it's on the player.
In the thread I linked I started playing it after the disguise patch and I mention that if this is considered patched then I can only imagine how horrible it was before, because the system flat out does not work at all.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Really? I haven't revisited it in a while, this is new to me.
Raitosaito
Member
And because what?
The whole game was designed around counter intuitive disguise mechanic and weird instinct meter that made the game almost impossible to play purely stealth in higher difficulty.
When levels like King of Chinatown emulate the older hitman games it succeed, but even then there is less options to be less stealthy in killing your target due to level size and obviously fewer numbers of these kind of levels.
Saying it succeed in those levels might be a bit much, as it even kind of leans you towards obvious accidental kills that are almost the same on all targets with blatant visual cues saying "try me."
My standards are low enough that I can enjoy that, so I'm no elitist. I try to like every game because it's not worth energy sometimes to bash on everything, I even like the hared Halo 4. Some games just don't work there is no conspiracy.
I don't really care about what is necessary to be popular in this industry or who developers feel they should cater to in order to be successful.
It's unlikely to be proprietary. Nvidia buying Ageia is one of the worst things to happen to the GPU industry; there's nothing worse than needlessly manufacturer-exclusive features, although fortunately hardware-accelerated PhysX games are few and far between.
I played it on Expert a few weeks ago and using disguises made the game a cakewalk for me, you have to sneak around while being disguise most of the time, you can't briskly stroll past dudes hoping they don't lose their shit.
Add in "hiding places" such as brochures or laptops and they stop being suspicious towards you, even then if you kill them and slip away the consequence is a body is found, basically an easy distraction for the area's guards.
You have to be stealthy when you're disguised, duck behind cover if they start to get a whiff of you being disguised, look for a path where there isn't a lot of attention. You should only use instinct to quietly clear a room with the marked shooting thing or if someone is in the way of your path.
Disguise mechanic is counter intuitive? It can be better implemented for sure, but I wouldn't say counter intuitive. There are definitely scenes that are better suited if you are disguised. (like you dressed up as a clerk in courtroom).
Also hitman gives you freedom of playing through out the game as non-lethal, suit only game play too. I play that way and that's much more fun. (Although i agree that NPCs in that game have way too sharp eyes)
And here we uncover the problem with that game's disguise system. If you have to do the same thing disguised that you have to do in normal clothes, there is no point to using disguises. Something I mentioned back then too.
Spazznid
Member
Huh, on one hand that's surprisingly positive. On the other hand it's also surprising to hear that Brian Altano actually plays videogames.
Shit, you should mainly use explosives in Absolution for a distraction to lure guards away from their post, one of the last missions where there's 30 dudes just in the middle of the area wasn't a problem when I detonated an explosive on the opposite side where I was headed and snuck past all of them.
No, because not being disguised makes them lose their shit in a second, being disguised gives you a few seconds on expert to get away from their line of sight. Crouching behind something or running away where they lose their sight line doesn't make them any more suspicious, take advantage of that.
I honestly think you didn't explore or attempt to understand the systems in the game, I'll admit they didn't teach you any of them correctly, but you simply didn't play around enough with the game.
No, because not being disguised makes them lose their shit in a second, being disguised gives you a few seconds on expert to get away from their line of sight. Crouching behind something or running away where they lose their sight line doesn't make them any more suspicious, take advantage of that.
I honestly think you didn't explore or attempt to understand the systems in the game, I'll admit they didn't teach you any of them correctly, but you simply didn't play around enough with the game.
I was just about to ask what the point of a disguise is if you still have to sneak around.
Well obviously there is no objective "good game," so everything is opinion. So yeah, to Derrick, it means it's a bad game. The game you wanted might be a bad game to somebody else.
It's been a while but didn't you have to so the same thing in Blood Money? I seem to remember that you could get spotted even in dusguises.
No, in Blood Money if you're dressed as a cop you're basically the president of the United States. Having the wrong weapon type equipped or headbutting someone in front of somebody will make the AI actually give a damn.
I agree that developer should have given more lax detection criteria when it comes to disguise. People finding out who you are way too much fast. But then again if it is too lax, then game will be fundamentally broken because it becomes too easy.
I hope if next installment of hitman comes they can find the right balance. Because otherwise it is very fun game.
Also, you don't have to sneak around when you are in the right disguise. Give in some example:
When you are dressed as wrestler.
When you are dressed as a clerk (and in here it's bad idea to dress up as a cop since there are more cop than others)
When you dressed as a chef.
Just pops in my mind.
AgentOtaku
Member
Watching that Combat Diary, yeah that's the first thing that popped in my mind lol
Honestly at first I was put off because, I don't know, I had this idea that the character simply wasn't that. Then I got over it. It's a damn videogame that honestly looks enjoyable and hey, I appreciate the female lead.
The areas you can access while sneaking with a disguise is more far reaching than just suit only. You have no way to break rising attention with the suit aside from breaking line of sight.
Hitman 2 is much more similar, only they don't really indicate when the AI is about to see through and flip out on you.
Blood Money disgisues were effective win mode. Game was super easy with the leniency.
Raitosaito
Member
I feel like we are just gaming the game basically with an incomplete design choice or broken design choice. (I'll never know, I ain't Eidos)
You worked around an incompetent AI base with mechanics that fools it. Just because we didn't do the same thing it means we are incompetent and didn't explore enough of the games mechanics.
Playing through Hitman Absolution, what I can say is that the game never felt like the developers were making changes because they wanted to turn the game into some casual mush. The developers seemed that they really wanted to make the series their own, and tried to make it more than just a random series of sandbox levels connected by a very loose (and terrible) plot.
A shame some of their changes were bad, and the AI is inconsistent enough that you couldn't rely on the game to not screw you over. Also the checkpoint system was stupid as hell, and must of been put in there due to engine limitations because holy crap that system cannot be appealing to anybody.
And I'm feeling a bit torn that Eidos Montreal is handling the next Hitman game. On one hand I'm relieved that it's going to a team of people that proved they can handle open world environments. On the other hand, it feels like Absolution is the way it is because it was the team's first crack at the franchise. And there were signs of a great game in Absolution. If they ever do another Hitman game and fixed some of their flaws, it could be pretty awesome.
A shame some of their changes were bad, and the AI is inconsistent enough that you couldn't rely on the game to not screw you over. Also the checkpoint system was stupid as hell, and must of been put in there due to engine limitations because holy crap that system cannot be appealing to anybody.
And I'm feeling a bit torn that Eidos Montreal is handling the next Hitman game. On one hand I'm relieved that it's going to a team of people that proved they can handle open world environments. On the other hand, it feels like Absolution is the way it is because it was the team's first crack at the franchise. And there were signs of a great game in Absolution. If they ever do another Hitman game and fixed some of their flaws, it could be pretty awesome.
I don't know what to say, I understood the AI's limits and potential and used that to my advantage. Sounds like a competent game to me. You can do the same thing in Dark Souls, and one of the designer's said that was neat/purposeful.
I discovered how to play the game by not approaching it with one mindset, I kept an open mind and figured out neat ways to play the game. I guess that's a flaw now.
Are you talking about Absolution specifically? Because this honestly works towards any hitman game, blood money especially.
You can throw infinite coins in Blood Money and lure targets to places they would otherwise never go to. It is stupid as everloving fuck, but it's possible. AI manipulation has always been a big part of the series.
That may be the worst review I've ever read, on any website or magazine. So many blatantly wrong criticisms that I could feel my brain cells dying as I read them. The main one is the same horrible and lame criticism the Fallout 3 defenders on this board throw out, the "world is too boring to explore" reason, because they can't find another one without making stuff up like that reviewer did.
At least just about everyone in the comments section seemed as equally baffled as I was.
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
Are reviews expected to go live at midnight (PST) like usual?
I remember when I played Bioshock 1 I got the plasmid that would make a Big Daddy protect the player, I used it and then got into a fight with another Big Daddy. The Big Daddy protecting me started to fight the other Big Daddy and I watched the two punch each other till one of them died.
I then killed the remaining Big Daddy who had almost no health left and got loot from both Big Daddy's.
I've heard people say they'll go live at 7am PST. Not sure if that's true, though.
I think it was tomorrow morning 7PST or something.
On one hand, silently killing an enemy guard in a loud dance club and then having a random guard two disconnected rooms away be alerted (and only him alerted) baffles me.
On the other hand, I sure loved walking up to a guard when I'm wearing his buddy's outfit and he's all "wait, who are yo-" and I end his sentence with a ball peen hammer to the cerebral cortex.
On the other hand, I sure loved walking up to a guard when I'm wearing his buddy's outfit and he's all "wait, who are yo-" and I end his sentence with a ball peen hammer to the cerebral cortex.
Raitosaito
Member
All the other hitman games it make sense in context of the level design. (Though I was never a big hitman fan anyways.)
Absolution has a lot of levels made in vein of Splinter Cell so the way we are manipulating the AI where if you avoid them before detection they just walk away just seems like you know that's not how it was meant to be played.
You can be absolutely right, maybe they are following in the design philosophy of the previous games.
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