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New Super Mario 3D World hands-on, gameplay

N

Net_Wrecker

Member
RagnarokX said:
I think the philosophy is "3D Platformer". It's strange how some people label platforming as "2D gameplay". This game is a 3D Platformer like most of Mario Galaxy and 3D Land instead of a 3D Adventure game like Mario 64 and Sunshine. 3D and 2D are dimensions. If you can move around in 3D the game is 3D. If you're doing platforming in 3D that's 3D platforming, not "2D gameplay in 3D space".

In my opinion it looks like what 3D Mario should have always been in the first place. It cuts a lot of the fat from the adventure style games by focusing on tight/dense challenging platforming while still retaining adventure elements in a less tedious format.
Click to expand...

It's not literally 2D, but that's the perception. When the view shifts and you get that semi-leveled camera angle, or the high almost isometric stuff, and there isn't much to do with the camera because the entire level is right there, it gives off a 2D vibe. Yes you can still move on the Z axis or whatever you want to call it, but it's not really free form platforming where camera control in a 3D environment becomes important. Like you say, it's tight, highly focused platforming challenges.

And I didn't say "2D gameplay" I said "2D Mario" which means essentially bringing the 2D series straight into 3D which is exactly what you described. Tight/dense platforming challenges with very little of the "adventuring." Yes, 3D Land and 3D World are probably more faithful translations of classic Mario to 3D than 64, Sunshine, or even Galaxy. Where the complaints come from are the people who want to see a game where you're dropped into large playgrounds and spinning the camera means looking toward another challenge and more progression is made with the 64/Sunshine/Galaxy 3rd person follow cam instead of the super controlled angles we see here. To you, 3D World looks like what 3D Mario should've been in the first place, but some other people don't want 2D and 3D Mario crossing the streams as much.

I'm buying the game and I think it looks fun, but I understand where the other side is coming from and a part of me feels the same way. For some it's too traditional. It's too much like the 2D series'. It doesn't feel as grandiose as they'd like the console followup to the Galaxy series to be. Doesn't seem like such a crazy opinion to me.
 
C

Charles Foster Kane

Rosebud
Mannny said:
What open 3D levels in galaxy are you talking about, because they were far and few between.
Click to expand...

Specially in Galaxy 2.

cyberheater said:
You have phrased it very succinctly. I really don't like that approach very much. I've seen videos of this game that gave the impression that the game is a lot more 3D-ish and I was hoping this was the norm.
Click to expand...

They are 3D, just that some have a fixed angle. There are levels where you can control it too (I think when we see the camera or wii u icon below the timer).

Net_Wrecker said:
It's not literally 2D, but that's the perception. When the view shifts and you get that semi-leveled camera angle, or the high almost isometric stuff, and there isn't much to do with the camera because the entire level is right there, it gives off a 2D vibe. Yes you can still move on the Z axis or whatever you want to call it, but it's not really free form platforming where camera control in a 3D environment becomes important. Like you say, it's tight, highly focused platforming challenges.

And I didn't say "2D gameplay" I said "2D Mario" which means essentially bringing the 2D series straight into 3D which is exactly what you described. Tight/dense platforming challenges with very little of the "adventuring." Yes, 3D Land and 3D World are probably more faithful translations of classic Mario to 3D than 64, Sunshine, or even Galaxy. Where the complaints come from are the people who want to see a game where you're dropped into large playgrounds and spinning the camera means looking toward another challenge and more progression is made with the 64/Sunshine/Galaxy 3rd person follow cam instead of the super controlled angles we see here. To you, 3D World looks like what 3D Mario should've been in the first place, but some other people don't want 2D and 3D Mario crossing the streams as much.

I'm buying the game and I think it looks fun, but I understand where the other side is coming from and a part of me feels the same way. For some it's too traditional. It's too much like the 2D series'. It doesn't feel as grandiose as they'd like the console followup to the Galaxy series to be. Doesn't seem like such a crazy opinion to me.
Click to expand...

I understand those who complain about the fixed camera sections too, it's a compromise. One less thing you have to worry about though; a free camera can get a bit cumbersome sometimes. Levels like Luigi's purple coins were harder because of the free camera.
 
T

Tookay

Member
Game looks much more fun than it's initial unveiling, but the isometric camera feels so limiting and makes it feel... cheap. I'm not sure if that's the best word to describe how I'm feeling.
 
O

Oidisco

Member
Tookay said:
Game looks much more fun than it's initial unveiling, but the isometric camera feels so limiting and makes it feel... cheap. I'm not sure if that's the best word to describe how I'm feeling.
Click to expand...
Remember, you can control the camera if you want.
 
D

DrLazy

Member
Net_Wrecker said:
It's not literally 2D, but that's the perception. When the view shifts and you get that semi-leveled camera angle, or the high almost isometric stuff, and there isn't much to do with the camera because the entire level is right there, it gives off a 2D vibe. Yes you can still move on the Z axis or whatever you want to call it, but it's not really free form platforming where camera control in a 3D environment becomes important. Like you say, it's tight, highly focused platforming challenges.

And I didn't say "2D gameplay" I said "2D Mario" which means essentially bringing the 2D series straight into 3D which is exactly what you described. Tight/dense platforming challenges with very little of the "adventuring." Yes, 3D Land and 3D World are probably more faithful translations of classic Mario to 3D than 64, Sunshine, or even Galaxy. Where the complaints come from are the people who want to see a game where you're dropped into large playgrounds and spinning the camera means looking toward another challenge and more progression is made with the 64/Sunshine/Galaxy 3rd person follow cam instead of the super controlled angles we see here. To you, 3D World looks like what 3D Mario should've been in the first place, but some other people don't want 2D and 3D Mario crossing the streams as much.

I'm buying the game and I think it looks fun, but I understand where the other side is coming from and a part of me feels the same way. For some it's too traditional. It's too much like the 2D series'. It doesn't feel as grandiose as they'd like the console followup to the Galaxy series to be. Doesn't seem like such a crazy opinion to me.
Click to expand...

Yep. Mario 64 is still my favorite because of the "adventure" elements. Exploring was never part of the original 2D Mario, but shit if it wasn't fun in Mario 64 (sunshine too).

This game is more about multiplayer than anything. So of course it wouldn't work in a Mario 64 style world.
 
R

RagnarokX

Member
Net_Wrecker said:
It's not literally 2D, but that's the perception. When the view shifts and you get that semi-leveled camera angle, or the high almost isometric stuff, and there isn't much to do with the camera because the entire level is right there, it gives off a 2D vibe. Yes you can still move on the Z axis or whatever you want to call it, but it's not really free form platforming where camera control in a 3D environment becomes important. Like you say, it's tight, highly focused platforming challenges.

And I didn't say "2D gameplay" I said "2D Mario" which means essentially bringing the 2D series straight into 3D which is exactly what you described. Tight/dense platforming challenges with very little of the "adventuring." Yes, 3D Land and 3D World are probably more faithful translations of classic Mario to 3D than 64, Sunshine, or even Galaxy. Where the complaints come from are the people who want to see a game where you're dropped into large playgrounds and spinning the camera means looking toward another challenge and more progression is made with the 64/Sunshine/Galaxy 3rd person follow cam instead of the super controlled angles we see here. To you, 3D World looks like what 3D Mario should've been in the first place, but some other people don't want 2D and 3D Mario crossing the streams as much.

I'm buying the game and I think it looks fun, but I understand where the other side is coming from and a part of me feels the same way. For some it's too traditional. It's too much like the 2D series'. It doesn't feel as grandiose as they'd like the console followup to the Galaxy series to be. Doesn't seem like such a crazy opinion to me.
Click to expand...
2D Mario gameplay is platforming. Basically the argument you're making is that it focuses too much on platforming and not enough on adventure. The camera is not an issue; it's as/more controlable as the camera in Galaxy and adventure Mario fans didn't get upset with that game. I mean really the only 3D Mario games that focused on the type of gameplay and level design that you consider to be "3D Mario" were Mario 64 and Mario Sunshine. I think Sunshine was pretty clear that that type of design was a dead end, which is why Nintendo mostly abandoned it when they made Galaxy. Mario levels have always been better when they focus on platforming.

Mario Galaxy feels grandiose because space is a grandiose theme and there's not really anything higher, literally. But in terms of level design I'd say 3D World looks to be the grandest yet. The amount of stuff they've packed into the game is amazing. Did you see that bullet train level? Galaxy had the space theme but it still had a lot of empty stretches of levels.
 
N

Net_Wrecker

Member
RagnarokX said:
2D Mario gameplay is platforming. Basically the argument you're making is that it focuses too much on platforming and not enough on adventure. The camera is not an issue; it's as/more controlable as the camera in Galaxy and adventure Mario fans didn't get upset with that game. I mean really the only 3D Mario games that focused on the type of gameplay and level design that you consider to be "3D Mario" were Mario 64 and Mario Sunshine. I think Sunshine was pretty clear that that type of design was a dead end, which is why Nintendo mostly abandoned it when they made Galaxy. Mario levels have always been better when they focus on platforming.

Mario Galaxy feels grandiose because space is a grandiose theme and there's not really anything higher, literally. But in terms of level design I'd say 3D World looks to be the grandest yet. The amount of stuff they've packed into the game is amazing. Did you see that bullet train level? Galaxy had the space theme but it still had a lot of empty stretches of levels.
Click to expand...

See, here's the thing, I don't see "Adventure" and "Platforming" as mutually exclusive design. You say Galaxy is grandiose because of the theme, but there are things Nintendo could attempt with the structure and design of 3D Mario games to bring that feeling without going back to space while still keeping the tight platforming challenges. Say, for example, the game opens on what feels like the last boss fight, but you lose and Bowser tosses Mario into some prison in another dimension. From there, the entire game is set in this gigantic obviously-too-large-and-varied-to-be-a-real-prison where you're seamlessly going from level to level in a long adventure that still has all the tight structured platforming you could want, but set in really new and different environments. Environments that wrap around and through each other, and exist in the background, or on levels above and below you. Platforming that's not only tight and challenging, but where reaching the goal affects the next level you travel to in new ways aside from "You reached the star/flagpole." Hell, you could keep the same camera angles, and not a single person would complain if the structure was changed that much. It would be like some crazy mix of Mario platforming + Luigi's Mansion interconnected areas + labyrinth progression covered in Nintendo magic

But what do I know, I'm just throwing ideas out there. So yeah, I understand why you're excited for 3D World, I am too for the same reasons. It looks tight, and fun, and these new trailers are full of goodness. But I also understand people who want something less traditionally "2D Mario" in structure/presentation, and I agree with them as well. Is this making sense?
 
M

marc^o^

Nintendo's Pro Bono PR Firm
Just saw the new IGN videos.

This is Christmas on a disc. That Nintendo magic people talk about now and then.
 
T

The Lamp

Member
User33 said:
I don't know where you're getting this from. Super Mario 3D Land was the first time I ever felt underwhelmed by a 3D Mario reveal trailer.
Click to expand...

If you want to reduce it that far, sure, but this is common for Nintendo games in general.

People flipped out at the Zelda SS demo at E3, thinking it looked too derivative and plain. People are flipping out about Donkey Kong (and they will eat their crow next year, let there be no mistake about that) and people thought New Super Mario Bros. Wii was just a half-assed sequel to NSMB for the DS, when it was actually fantastic. This happens all the time.

Nintendo releases a very underwhelming reveal trailer that shows 1-3 levels AT THE MOST and maybe ONE new gameplay feature (in this case, the cat). People cry "there's no variety, the gameplay looks weak" and then the game comes out and it's like people are surprised that Nintendo's main studios know how to make video games. It's bizarre.
 
C

cube444

Member
Zeer0id said:
original7iuz9.jpg


gods
Click to expand...

Damn. Are those plush dolls for sale? They'd make excellent Christmas gifts.
 
The Hermit

The Hermit

Member
The more I see about this the more i realize how this is a game that is basically the combination of the single player of SMG with the crazyness of the multi-player of NSMW.

Btw how does MP works? Can I play with a character on the pad while someone else use the screen?
 
O

OrbitalBeard

Member
I REALLY hope this game has eight special, remixed worlds like 3D Land did.

If it does, this may end up as my favorite Mario game ever.
 
V

ViewtifulJC

Banned
Net_Wrecker said:
See, here's the thing, I don't see "Adventure" and "Platforming" as mutually exclusive design. You say Galaxy is grandiose because of the theme, but there are things Nintendo could attempt with the structure and design of 3D Mario games to bring that feeling without going back to space while still keeping the tight platforming challenges. Say, for example, the game opens on what feels like the last boss fight, but you lose and Bowser tosses Mario into some prison in another dimension. From there, the entire game is set in this gigantic obviously-too-large-and-varied-to-be-a-real-prison where you're seamlessly going from level to level in a long adventure that still has all the tight structured platforming you could want, but set in really new and different environments. Environments that wrap around and through each other, and exist in the background, or on levels above and below you. Platforming that's not only tight and challenging, but where reaching the goal affects the next level you travel to in new ways aside from "You reached the star/flagpole." Hell, you could keep the same camera angles, and not a single person would complain if the structure was changed that much. It would be like some crazy mix of Mario platforming + Luigi's Mansion interconnected areas + labyrinth progression covered in Nintendo magic

But what do I know, I'm just throwing ideas out there. So yeah, I understand why you're excited for 3D World, I am too for the same reasons. It looks tight, and fun, and these new trailers are full of goodness. But I also understand people who want something less traditionally "2D Mario" in structure/presentation, and I agree with them as well. Is this making sense?
Click to expand...

I think that does make sense, something that builds on the scale of Mario 64/Sunshine's sandboxes, but with lots of discrete dense challenges throughout.

Funny, I think Skyward Sword tried something like this, to mixed success. The 3D Zeldas have always had rather dull overworlds, even the vaunted OoT. They tried to combat that in SS but making the "underworld" like a playspace, filled with enemies, puzzles, traversal challenges, and the like. I think that was a great idea. They kinda ***_******'d the execution though. The segmented design and linearity of the adventure made it feel more like a level select("Now you're in the green zone, now you're in the red zone, now here's the brown zone") instead of a big world you're exploring that all connected together. Also, the overworld just stinks. Separating the exploration between the two just made those floating islands more barren, and half the time the treasure wasn't even worth the effort(which would be minimized if you just GOT it through exploration in the underworld ala LttP or whatever). I would have loved to see them expand on that with more "zones", no separate overworlds, and interconnect them like Banjo-Tooie(which is secretly a Metroid game, much to the chagrin of many B-K fans).

I'm not sure how feasible this would be for a new 3D Mario game, but if they wanted to go in a new direction after this, I think that kind of idea sounds interesting. Something that still delivers the tight, compact platforming 2D Mario has with the expanded scale and scope of 64/Sunshine.
 
M

Mango The Magician

Banned
Just 29 days to go....Just 29 days to go....Just 29 days to go....Just 29 days to go....Just 29 days to go....I hope the levels are longer than 3D lands. You could complete some of those in like a minute.
 
B

Boy Wander

Member
ElectricKaibutsu said:
I was in the doubting camp. That's why there's now an edible crow in my avatar.
Click to expand...

When people get their hands on this game, there should definitely be a thread where people go back and post their original reveal GAF posts versus their current thoughts. It would be as if everyone on GAF had split personalities.
 
Dr. Buni

Dr. Buni

Member
Okay Nintendo, you convinced me to buy one of your consoles AGAIN. I hope you're glad.

PS: The music in the first level in the video is incredible!
 
B

Busaiku

Member
Oh wow, never noticed the character portraits until now.
Have they been doing this in the New Super Mario Bros games and I just haven't noticed..?
 
P

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Multiplayer looks completely illegible in those new vids, so I can sorta understand why the sudden refocus on single player videos after E3.

2 concurrent players seems like the absolute limit to understandable gameplay in modern Mario's.
 
D

Dion Blaster

Member
Kureransu said:
I've been thinking with the levels remind me of (besides 3d land in a sense) and it dawned on me. The way the levels are laid out reminds me of the Bowser (castle) levels from the 3d Marios prior. Am I the only one who feels this way?
Click to expand...

I agree. And those were the best levels in Mario 64. Which is saying something since all the levels were great.
 
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