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[Jobiensis]

I don't think that's true at all. You ask for money because you don't have enough of your own funds to pay, not because you don't feel like using your own money for the thing you did that you know is wrong.

How broke does he have to be then? Should he sell his car? If the trip was planned, should he cancel and lose the deposit. Should he not buy new clothes? Should he drain his 401k?

I'm not completely disagreeing with you, but there really isn't enough known to start lynching him yet.

Edit:

Tampering with evidence ≠ destroying evidence.

Still is questionable, he just didn't completely comply with the court order.

 

[squatingyeti]

If he used his own money to fund a vacation to South America (which isn't cheap) then he shouldn't have been asking for donations.

This line of thinking is just as bad as the previous "he fled!!" "oh, well maybe he's just on vacation, but he's still terrible and awful!!"

Defending yourself against a massive company is an expensive endeavor. If people are willing to help you foot that bill because they fear the precedent that could be set, why is it not okay to ask? What says you have to spend yourself into ruin before you ask people to help? He did spend money from his own pocket before ever asking. People donated and covered a large amount of the bill. So now, it's apparently not cool if you have some money to relax with all the stress he probably faces.

 

[Eccocid]

i wish i had skills to hack a console now i would travel around the world for free

 

[Curufinwe]

I'm not a legal expert, but how much further will this "frustration" has to go before it turns into contempt of court?

Depends on the judge.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

This line of thinking is just as bad as the previous "he fled!!" "oh, well maybe he's just on vacation, but he's still terrible and awful!!"

Defending yourself against a massive company is an expensive endeavor. If people are willing to help you foot that bill because they fear the precedent that could be set, why is it not okay to ask? What says you have to spend yourself into ruin before you ask people to help? He did spend money from his own pocket before ever asking. People donated and covered a large amount of the bill. So now, it's apparently not cool if you have some money to relax with all the stress he probably faces.

Nobody is saying he has to spend himself into ruin... just that he probably shouldn't be keeping a rainy day fund like this.

 

[Curufinwe]

Defending yourself against a massive company is an expensive endeavor. If people are willing to help you foot that bill because they fear the precedent that could be set, why is it not okay to ask? What says you have to spend yourself into ruin before you ask people to help? He did spend money from his own pocket before ever asking. People donated and covered a large amount of the bill. So now, it's apparently not cool if you have some money to relax with all the stress he probably faces.

What's not cool is altering the hard drives so that the third party vendor cannot image them, and then saying that you can't give them the components you removed because you just happen to be on holiday in South America.

 

[ViolentP]

Laughing my ass off at each and every one who donated money to this fuckwit.

I could go to a garage sale right now and spend $20 on a Babysitter's Club book collection and it would still be a wiser investment.

 

[Nairume]

Nobody is saying he has to spend himself into ruin... just that he probably shouldn't be keeping a rainy day fund like this.

We don't even know what fund is supporting this trip to begin with. Any speculation on the subject is kind of silly at this point because it is going to descend into petty fanboy squabbles.

 

[chubigans]

Amazing title change. Bwahaha XD

 

[Zee-Row]

Geohot may be a brilliant hacker but his common sense skills are that of a 10 year old.

 

[jorma]

Laughing my ass off at each and every one who donated money to this fuckwit.

The gaf reactions to this makes me wish i did donate.

 

[Jobiensis]

Geohot may be a brilliant hacker but his common sense skills are that of a 10 year old.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves, I've seen plenty of ten year olds display better common sense.

 

[Mama Robotnik]

So just to break down the events:

-Geohot's tampered with the hard drives.

-Geohot's travelled to South America for a holiday, with no evidence that he's "fled" as per the thread title, or that he used legal defense fund money to pay for said holiday. No evidence at all.

Are these the main developments?

If so, then why do most of the comments in this thread seem to act like there is some conclusive concrete evidence that he's absconded with the money and defrauded his donors?

 

[BuggyDClown]

Why even give up the HDD. I would have just used a strong fuckin magnet the second they found out about it.

 

[Canova]

hahahahahaha....title change

cheers from the beach, suckas

 

[Cyborg]

Amazing title change. Bwahaha XD

Indeed hahah....This is what you get when you support illegale stuff. Donate money and the guy goes on a vacation

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

We don't even know what fund is supporting this trip to begin with. Any speculation on the subject is kind of silly at this point because it is going to descend into petty fanboy squabbles.

It just strikes me as highly unlikely, given his utterly childish behavior at every turn, that Geohot is funding this little trip in any way that could be considered responsible.

 

[Ozzykamikaze]

How broke does he have to be then? Should he sell his car? If the trip was planned, should he cancel and lose the deposit. Should he not buy new clothes? Should he drain his 401k?

I'm not completely disagreeing with you, but there really isn't enough known to start lynching him yet.

I guess I'd use what I learned in my one business law class: Almost everything in the law is looked at within a certain degree of reason. You broke the law and now you're paying for it. Nobody is asking you to stop eating, but flying to South wherever is a luxury, not a necessity. I didn't even do anything wrong and nobody is freeing up my cash to take trips. If you guys could just go ahead and pay my bills, I could probably afford to go on vacation too.

Although, I am a New Jersey resident with less money than I'd like to have and I think I rewired something once, maybe... Halp guys!

 

[Nairume]

So just to break down the events:

-Geohot's tampered with the hard drives.

-Geohot's travelled to South America for a holiday, with no evidence that he's "fled" as per the thread title, or that he used legal defense fund money to pay for said holiday.

Aren't these the main developments?

If so, then why do most of the comments in this thread seem to act like there is some conclusive concrete evidence that he's absconded with the money and defrauded his donors?

Because the record of the Green Bay Sonys is at stake.

 

[Speevy]

So just to break down the events:

-Geohot's tampered with the hard drives.

-Geohot's travelled to South America for a holiday, with no evidence that he's "fled" as per the thread title, or that he used legal defense fund money to pay for said holiday. No evidence at all.

Are these the main developments?

If so, then why do most of the comments in this thread seem to act like there is some conclusive concrete evidence that he's absconded with the money and defrauded his donors?

Although you're absolutely right that no one should attack you for this, you probably shouldn't defend this guy anymore.

He's smelling like crap right about now.

 

[NullPointer]

Man, this whole case and everything related to it is pure batshit nuttery.

Get David Fincher to clear up his schedule. He'll need the free time to make his sequel, 'The Playstation Network'.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

If so, then why do most of the comments in this thread seem to act like there is some conclusive concrete evidence that he's absconded with the money and defrauded his donors?

Because it fits him.

 

[MrPliskin]

Why even give up the HDD. I would have just used a strong fuckin magnet the second they found out about it.

To further sway the judges decision? Brilliant.

 

[IchigoSharingan]

They probably need the originals for legal reasons. They don't want to compromise their position by slapping on replacements.

Oh it's more than that. Geohot did something dirty by specifically removing the controller card. The investigation team would need to develop a backdoor key to get around the encryption due to the removal of the card. It's possible, but they would basically have to hack the HDD to do it. Opal's standard has its own vulnerabilities.

If I understand it right, even if they put in a replacement part, it wouldn't work. They wouldn't be able to access the encrypted data.

Knowing Geo, he probably set up multiple partitions each with its own key. The encryption points are very deliberate. It'd be different if it were software only encryption, but I'm guessing there's a software chip. I could be wrong.

 

[tokkun]

Defending yourself against a massive company is an expensive endeavor. If people are willing to help you foot that bill because they fear the precedent that could be set, why is it not okay to ask? What says you have to spend yourself into ruin before you ask people to help? He did spend money from his own pocket before ever asking. People donated and covered a large amount of the bill. So now, it's apparently not cool if you have some money to relax with all the stress he probably faces.

Sounds awfully reminiscent of the arguments used by the banks who gave huge bonuses to their executives after the government bail-out.

As soon as you put your hand out asking for charity, you should expect people to be pissed off if you start flashing money a couple months later. This is common sense.

 

[SapientWolf]

This line of thinking is just as bad as the previous "he fled!!" "oh, well maybe he's just on vacation, but he's still terrible and awful!!"

Defending yourself against a massive company is an expensive endeavor. If people are willing to help you foot that bill because they fear the precedent that could be set, why is it not okay to ask? What says you have to spend yourself into ruin before you ask people to help? He did spend money from his own pocket before ever asking. People donated and covered a large amount of the bill. So now, it's apparently not cool if you have some money to relax with all the stress he probably faces.

Well, you have a point. The American legal system is pretty stressful, especially when you're being prosecuted by it. No wonder he wanted to get away from it all.

 

[Dizzy]

Lol at people trying to defend him in order to feel like their donation meant something. Can't you just realize that regardless of what you think about the case, geohot himself is a scumbag?

 

[phosphor112]

The evidence is the data, not the physical harddrive.

It would be tampering with evidence in the same way that, if you had to supply a briefcase full of papers to the DA, but did not give them the key combination to open the lock. They'd have to spend an extra step opening the lock.

Yeah, he's fucking with Sony. That's kind of childish. It's not evidence tampering.

So it's the blood, not the glove with the blood that's the evidence.

Sorry, had to throw in that silly comparison.

Seriously though, when you buy a HDD it comes with a controller card. When you buy a mobo, it comes with capacitors. You can buy both a controller card and capacitors separately, but both of those are part of a product as a whole.

Not a problem.
http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/OS-Enhancements/UXTheme-MultiPatcher.shtml

GeoHot released a patch that allowed programs to be installed on PS3. The legal issue isn't modifying copyrighted files, it's potentially removing protection mechanisms.

DMCA.

Do you have the request for evidence order handy? I'd love to give it a read.

You can look it up yourself instead of making everyone else do the work for you.

No, it does not

Lmao, he either used HIS money or the DONATION money. It's one or the other. I'm sure he didn't win a trip to Argentina from Price is Right.

Owning a copyright is not the same as owning outright. I own the specific copy of the firmware on my PS3 and can change it however I want, I just cant make copy's and distribute them, even if they are modified. The DMCA made modification for the purpose of bypassing copyright protection illegal back when this type of protection was inside DVD players and on disk media. Any other modification is still legal, if geohot released a patch to the PS3 firmware that did anything but bypass its copyright protection Sony couldn't do a thing. Nowadays the same protection is used to lock out many legitimate uses, but as long as its also used to stop piracy it cant be touched. Companies are hiding behind the DMCA to take away rights so the law needs to be changed or interpreted differently.

If he did it for personal use, he would be fine. I'm fine with people doing what they want in private, and I'm sure most companies don't care either, the thing is when it goes public. I still dont see why people don't fight the guys that are doing the MOST harm right now... It's guys like EA and Activision. Guys getting banned from playing their SINGLE player games? Really? At least Sony doesn't brick your console, they just don't let you get on their network... FFS, Sony even lets you update your console after you get banned, games that need online verification? Nope. Not at all. Can't start it up, can't update it.

 

[AppleSmack]

Sony is going to have some trouble proving he tampered with it AFTER the courts ordered him to give it up.

 

[squatingyeti]

Indeed hahah....This is what you get when you support illegale stuff. Donate money and the guy goes on a vacation

I supported hacking of phones too. Fuck, I should have known better because that was illegal as well when I was supporting it!

 

[JWong]

So just to break down the events:

-Geohot's tampered with the hard drives.

-Geohot's travelled to South America for a holiday, with no evidence that he's "fled" as per the thread title, or that he used legal defense fund money to pay for said holiday. No evidence at all.

Are these the main developments?

If so, then why do most of the comments in this thread seem to act like there is some conclusive concrete evidence that he's absconded with the money and defrauded his donors?

Can you prove, at the time of the donation, that he was guaranteeing the money was being used for the lawsuit?

I seriously doubt that.

 

[Mama Robotnik]

Although you're absolutely right that no one should attack you for this, you probably shouldn't defend this guy anymore.

He's smelling like crap right about now.

I'm trying not to defend Geohot, as I've said before, he's thoroughly unlikeable. I donated because I was offended by what Sony is trying to do to the industry, and their campaign to prise away consumer rights. I saw an opportunity and I took it, and for that I have no regrets.

As I've said many times, its a shame that someone so unlikeable (regardless if this recent story has any merit) is the figurehead of the homebrew and hacking community in this case.

 

[Melchiah]

Still is questionable, he just didn't completely comply with the court order.

In case you missed my edit.

http://criminal-law.lawyers.com/ask...A-Crime-Is-Tampering-With-EvidenceU-6856.html

Tampering with evidence is a serious crime that involves the alteration, destruction, concealment or falsifying of physical evidence.

And another.

http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/crime-penalties/federal/Tampering-with-evidence.htm

Tampering with evidence is the knowing and intentional physical manipulation, altering or destruction or falsification of evidence relevant to a criminal case or investigation. It is important to note that tampering is not the accidental destruction or modification of evidence, it is only if the individual had reason to believe the material or item was part of an investigation.

 

[darkwing]

Why even give up the HDD. I would have just used a strong fuckin magnet the second they found out about it.

fry it in the microwave to be sure

 

[Zoe]

Sony is going to have some trouble proving he tampered with it AFTER the courts ordered him to give it up.

So he removed the hardware components before he was ordered to do turn it over?

That's odd. Why would somebody do that? It'd render it completely unusable.

 

[Nairume]

So he removed the hardware components before he was ordered to do turn it over?

That's odd. Why would somebody do that? It'd render it completely unusable.

You know how the movies show people flushing their weed down the toilet when they hear the cops coming? That.

 

[chubigans]

Man, I can already see the GAF threads several years in the future.

"Now wait just a damn minute. How do we know that Hotz didn't defensively stab that hooker 27 times and threw her in the back of his Ford Focus that they found in the bottom of the river today? Maybe she had a gun!"

 

[Melchiah]

-Geohot's travelled to South America for a holiday, with no evidence that he's "fled" as per the thread title, or that he used legal defense fund money to pay for said holiday. No evidence at all.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=26665956&postcount=476

In light of Hotz’s failure to comply with his discovery obligations and the still outstanding third party jurisdictional discovery, SCEA proposed a two-week extension of all briefing and hearing deadlines relating to Hotz’s Motion to Dismiss. Bricker Decl., ¶5, Exh. D. Hotz refused, stating that SCEA would have its discovery by the time of the hearing. Id. He completely ignored the fact that SCEA’s opposition deadline was approaching. Hotz also rejected outright SCEA’s second attempt to arrange for an inspection of his PS3 Systems and tried to evade his court-ordered deposition, stating that it was unnecessary. Id.

Despite Judge Spero’s orders, Hotz continues to frustrate all attempts to complete jurisdictional discovery. In yet another attempt to avoid his deposition and a limited inspection of his impounded hard drives, on March 17, 2011, Hotz filed a motion for protective order on issues already decided by Judge Spero. (Docket No. 100.) On the same day, TIG discovered that prior to delivery, Hotz had removed integral components from his impounded hard drives, rendering them completely non-functional. Bricker Decl., ¶21, Exh. S. When SCEA echoed TIG’s request that the components of the hard drives be delivered immediately, Hotz’s counsel responded that Hotz was in South America.Id

 

[lupinko]

Man, this is seriously golden material right here.

 

[phosphor112]

I can only imagine how manufacturing companies can make every controller card different, by the billions. That is amazing.

It's not TIG's fucking duty to make the hard drives work, it's Geo's LEGAL OBLIGATION to give them the evidence in question IN ITS ENTIRETY. Get it through your head. If I bought a fucking HDD from newegg and they sent me fucking HD plates, I'd be fucking pissed, because that isn't what I ordered.

 

[AppleSmack]

So he removed the hardware components before he was ordered to do turn it over?

That's odd. Why would somebody do that? It'd render it completely unusable.

Maybe he knew that the courts were going to ask for them? Whatever the reason, they can't charge him for tampering with evidence if they were tampered with before the courts requested them.

 

[Jobiensis]

DMCA.

Duh? That's implied in the post you quoted.

...

Removing the controller board is not concealment. It's plainly obvious. I'm not saying GeoHot is in the right, but he is in more danger of a contempt charge than anything else.

 

[TommyT]

So just to break down the events:

-Geohot's tampered with the hard drives.

-Geohot's travelled to South America for a holiday, with no evidence that he's "fled" as per the thread title, or that he used legal defense fund money to pay for said holiday. No evidence at all.

Are these the main developments?

If so, then why do most of the comments in this thread seem to act like there is some conclusive concrete evidence that he's absconded with the money and defrauded his donors?

"...When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."

 

[Curufinwe]

Sony is going to have some trouble proving he tampered with it AFTER the courts ordered him to give it up.

Doesn't matter. The judge ordered Hotz to comply with the impoundment procedure recommended by The Intelligence Group (“TIG”), and he hasn't done so.

 

[BuggyDClown]

To further sway the judges decision? Brilliant.

No, I'm just thinking if before the whole thing became a whole big mess why not just stop, destroy the HDDs, out in new ones and call it a day. How could they ever prove anything different.

If you do it asap before you are ordered to give anything to the courts how can you get in trouble or proven otherwise.

 

[lifa-cobex]

So just to break down the events:

-Geohot's tampered with the hard drives.

-Geohot's travelled to South America for a holiday, with no evidence that he's "fled" as per the thread title, or that he used legal defense fund money to pay for said holiday. No evidence at all.

Are these the main developments?

I would say so.

However just because he might not have used HIS money, He asked the community for cash.

 

[Nairume]

Man, I can already see the GAF threads several years in the future.

"Now wait just a damn minute. How do we know that Hotz didn't defensively stab that hooker 27 times and threw her in the back of his Ford Focus that they found in the bottom of the river today? Maybe she had a gun!"

Okay, you guys are officially getting silly now.

 

[TOAO_Cyrus]

If he did it for personal use, he would be fine. I'm fine with people doing what they want in private, and I'm sure most companies don't care either, the thing is when it goes public. I still dont see why people don't fight the guys that are doing the MOST harm right now... It's guys like EA and Activision. Guys getting banned from playing their SINGLE player games? Really? At least Sony doesn't brick your console, they just don't let you get on their network... FFS, Sony even lets you update your console after you get banned, games that need online verification? Nope. Not at all. Can't start it up, can't update it.

Its perfectly legal to release the means to modify software and thats the way it should be. If that was not the case then making mods for games would be illegal, unless specifically allowed in the license agreement. Like I said before the only way to get in hot water is to break copyright protection but companies are using 'copyright protection' to lock down whole systems and thats not right.

 

[Angry Fork]

I'd honestly like to know why people have so much hate for this guy?

The only concern is that parts of what he did allowed hackers to get into multiplayer games and therefore cheat and so on, but this has already been resolved via patches for various games and firmware patches as well, so why do people have so much animosity towards him still?

What difference does it make to you what people do with their machines? As long as it doesn't affect your console/experience then it should be his own business what he does. Like I said before this is different if it brings cheaters online but that kind of stuff has been resolved already which means you shouldn't really feel any hate towards him, unless you're still reeling from the cheating you experienced in black ops a month ago or whatever it may be.

There's the idea that he asked for donations which could annoy people because of this South America trip (which could also just as well be a family trip that he didn't have to pay for, but let's ignore this and assume he paid for it), but again, unless you donated yourself, why would you feel any rage towards this? It doesn't affect you at all. There's people in here calling him a criminal, pirate, etc. you have no proof of any of this. Like someone else said this is a civil case, whether it should be legal or not to mod your own system is up for debate but I think most people would agree it should be okay as long as it's not to the detriment of other people's gaming experiences (mainly online). Everyone loved the iphone jailbreaking but for some reason everyone is taking the piss out of him for doing the same to PS3 which has much more potential and cool stuff you can do. This dude opened the doors for people to update their consoles as they see fit, so other hackers can do the job that Sony should be doing instead (when it comes to firmware updates and new features and so on).

If you're a hardcore Sony fanboy you can be angry because Sony could've lost money on potential sales due to pirating (or other 3rd parties in general), but I thought Gaf was beyond that kind of stuff. Let it be known I have a launch PS3 and I haven't put homebrew on my PS3. I've bought all of my games (30+) and the majority of them day one buys. I had a slight interest in jailbreaking only because the backup loader would be a great feature to reduce the risk of drive problems and being able to play without switching discs, maybe being able to have aim/emulators on the console and so on. Most of this stuff I could do on my PC already though so I didn't go to lengths to jailbreak my PS3, especially since it was still in experimental stages. Anyway the point is I have no stake in this. I didn't donate and even though PS3 is my main console of choice I see no reason why you should blindly defend Sony in this. It makes no difference to me and it shouldn't to you either, so in the end i'm left perplexed as to how people can call for his lynching and act like he's this scum scoundrel, bottom of the barrel etc. I know people love hyperbole but it's gotten pretty ridiculous because you can tell a lot of people actually mean it.

 

[C Jones]

I'm trying not to defend Geohot, as I've said before, he's thoroughly unlikeable. I donated because I was offended by what Sony is trying to do to the industry, and their campaign to prise away consumer rights. I saw an opportunity and I took it, and for that I have no regrets.

As I've said many times, its a shame that someone so unlikeable (regardless if this recent story has any merit) is the figurehead of the homebrew and hacking community in this case.

Alright, so you are doing it for the cause and not the individual. But in the end you still have to believe in this person enough to think they will actually do the right thing with the money. Do you still believe that he's trustworthy/responsible enough not to screw people over? What made you believe he was responsible enough in the first place?

I'm not attacking you; legit questions.