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[TheExodu5]

Wait...$20 for just one weekend of MLG? Seems a tad high. $10 I could swallow, but $20 is asking a lot when I can get a full GSL season for less than that.

What finals are people talking about this weekend? I figured the GSL finals would end up outside of bar hours...or are they much later?

 

[Corran Horn]

Wait...$20 for just one weekend of MLG? Seems a tad high. $10 I could swallow, but $20 is asking a lot when I can get a full GSL season for less than that.

What finals are people talking about this weekend? I figured the GSL finals would end up outside of bar hours...or are they much later?

gsl finals are next week. Semi finals happened 2 nights ago. I think he was talking about MLG finals barcraft which happens this weekend.


Assembly is going on right now with great players too, free too
http://www.sc2match.com/news/twitch-assembly-nochat/

 

[Aaron]

Watching Assembly off and on. Players are good enough for as much as I'm watching.

 

[Zzoram]

MLG Winter Arena finals are this Sunday during daytime hours. That's what we're going to barcraft.

 

[Zzoram]

Teamliquid Page

MLG Winter Arena - Player List:

MLG Providence '11 Top 8
Leenock, Naniwa, DongRaeGu, Mvp, Huk

, MC, Haypro, Idra
European OQ Top 8
Violet, Ret, Thorzain, Pomi, Socke, Sjow, Grubby, Merz
Korea/Taiwan OQ Top 8
Nestea, Parting, Losira, MarineKing, Oz, STC, Ganzi, San
North American OQ Top 8
Drewbie

, Ddoro

, Sheth, SaSe, Axslav, Artist, Minigun, DDE

Toronto, Victory Cafe, 4pm-10pm, Feb.26th, BARCRAFT:

Going:
Zzoram

Pandaman

scogoth

mcrae

TheNiX

Spl1nter

Maybe:
hoverX

Meet at this Tim Hortons at 3pm.

 

[strafer]

I'm posting this in here because well, the background speaks for itself.

TB's new look.

>.<

 

[Corran Horn]

Watching foreign sc2 players is kinda hard after alot of gsl.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Watching foreign sc2 players is kinda hard after alot of gsl.

I can barely even watch Code A anymore, much less foreigners. GSL's new format has really made Code S incredible.

 

[Deadman]

http://uk.gamespot.com/features/the-state-of-esports-2012-6350990/

Slasher wrote an article about esports for gamespot. Gaf is briefly mentioned.

 

[perryfarrell]

I like TB's new look, to be honest. He looks sharper now.

Watched a little Assembly ASUS Rog today, getting ready to watch MLG. Not sure which tourney has the best players. Assembly has Stephano, arguably the best foreigner. MLG has more top-notch Koreans. Personally I most enjoy foreigners facing or upsetting Koreans... I hope they can put up a fight at MLG. GO GO GO!

 

[J2d]

Yeessss, suck it sweden!

FU!

..but really what did I miss?

edit: Jinro? who cares about him anymore it's all about... I can't find the energy to root for a single swede anymore =/

 

[Corran Horn]

Wow moon did nothing today lol

 

[Tacitus_]

FU!

..but really what did I miss?

edit: Jinro? who cares about him anymore it's all about... I can't find the energy to root for a single swede anymore =/

It is my national duty to root for a finn over a swede.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I'm guessing all Jinro does is spend his 4th place money from GSL partying, he hasn't done a single thing since

 

[Vaporak]

Polt with more than 1300 gas, no ghosts.

 

[Q8D3vil]

watching tournament in the morning, protoss rolling terran due late game imbalance.
go out and come back again and the same thing is happening.

lol balance.

 

[Vaporak]

Polt with more than 1300 gas, no ghosts.

watching tournament in the morning, protoss rolling terran due late game imbalance.
go out and come back again and the same thing is happening.

lol balance.

Yup, balance. Never change Q8D3vil

 

[Holden]

CLEARLY TERRANS HAVEN'T WON ENOUGH TOURNAMENTS.

 

[Jeff-DSA]

Uh, it's painfully obvious that Terran is at a horrible disadvantage in the late game. With the worst spellcaster and the least options, Terran has to hope that the opponent makes a bad mistake to win. They need to bring back the old EMP range, because High Templar is insanely overpowered against Terran right now.

Mech isn't an option in TvP, and with Ghosts being neutered with a tiny EMP radius, Storms just crush the bio.

 

[Deadman]

At this rate soon terran wont have an above 50% win rate for the first time ever. What a joke game.

 

[TheThunder]

Nice Coca is back on SlayerS roster for Code A qualifiers

Hope he streams more now.

Great, now I can go back to giving a crap about Slayers besides Boxer.

Cant decide if i should get the mlg ppv or not. What is everyone else doing?

F5 the Liqubedia page will be my method of watching

 

[-COOLIO-]

speaking of late game tvp i just read the post on the blizz forums that explained the problem to me succinctly:

My thoughts on tvp late game.. (as in maxed both sides 3-3)
The problem with super late game tvp isnt just chargelots, its that terran has no good gas dump in tvp whereas protoss has ht/archon and collosus. That and mass chrono boosted WGs reinforcing way faster than terran can, and a near non existent defenders advantage compared to TvT and TvZ for T.
All of the terran units are already super mineral heavy so hellions don't really help. If protoss is only making chargelots obviously just mmm should beat that.

Maybe terrans should actually start taking scvs off gas after 3-3 is done or something, haven't really seen this at pro level yet but I don't see why not.
Even korean pro terran float tons of gas in late game tvp because ravens will just get feedbacked and have short range, siege tanks suck in tvp, thors are slow compared to hydras off creep and bcs without upgrades suck, they will also all have terrible upgrades compared to protoss if you were going bio. Mass Medivacs become more useless as the game goes on as Protoss attack damage actually scales throughout the game via archons and collosus gaining more than +2 / +3 damage per attack upgrade when they already do splash damage.

This creates a situation where terran will often be spending all his minerals but cannot seem to trade cost effectively / keep up with protoss after engagements because protoss can spend all his gas on ht/archon and collosus which are both great high dps splash gas dumps. The counter to HT/archon and collosus are Ghosts and vikings so terran builds them but unfortunately their mineral to gas ratios are 2:1, so back to the same problem not enough mins or not enough uses for gas.

A stock pile of gas for protoss can be used to instantly warp in mass ht into archon after a major battle(if you were going mass collosus before this is pretty much the most ridiculous instant tech switch in the game considering you only need a single templar archives to do this and terran has to have been building viking to counter, which will be relatively useless vs the archons). A stock pile of gas for terran is pretty much useless. Nukes have been attempted to be used in pro games but often just simply don't do enough damage to justify the cost considering how often the ghost dies and the nuke won't even go off making it a 300 mineral 200 gas loss.

I'm not saying the MU is imbalanced as a whole but rather explaining why terran should not typically win in lategame 200/200 situations where both sides are stock piling money because it's like terran can only effectively spend one resource compared to protoss having two available to him. The way to avoid this situation is playing well during your timings when bio is still really strong and protoss is still teching up / expanding and has not built up a bank. Using stim timing/ medivac timing / upgrade timings to do as much damage as you can before protoss has 3+ base up and running . Basically making the most of the period where your gas income is actually incredibly useful.

Unfortunately this creates a situation where games are likely determined long before they are over to any keen observer who notices the terran has not done significant damage during his timings due to either making a mistake or protoss just playing well. This often leads to a slow death for the terran where the protoss just turtles and the terran finds it impossible to engage but knows he has to as every second of gas and chrono boost/WG stock piling means less chance for him to win as the chronoboosted reinforcing warp ins will be too strong. It also makes the MU very boring imo.

It also makes the MU reliant on map balance.
If the third is hard to defend and drops are easily done (shakuras) then the macro game will favor T. If the third is easy to defend and the map has long rush distance and/or is hard to drop (cloud kingdom,entombed valley)the macro game favors P..

I also don't know why people have to insist that super lategame tvp is winnable even if protoss doesn't make a huge error. It's like insisting there's a way terran can win vs a zerg in late game that he let drone to 80 drones max hive army and full larvae stock before putting any pressure on if he just plays right. The difference between pressure in TvZ and TvP is tvp pressure almost completely revolves around protoss missing a forcefield which is map based and frustrating for both sides. Hopefully the MU improves in HOTS.

 

[Hazaro]

Late game TvP sucks because bio is not greatly viable late game.
Durrrrrrr

Tanks are good, but then you have to deal with warp ins and the mobility of blink stalkers.
Ravens are good. Banshees are good.

It needs more time for people to figure out, not balance changes.

 

[-COOLIO-]

Late game TvP sucks because bio is not greatly viable late game.
Durrrrrrr

Tanks are good, but then you have to deal with warp ins and the mobility of blink stalkers.
Ravens are good. Banshees are good.

It needs more time for people to figure out, not balance changes.

in tvp:

tanks suck, ravens suck, banshees suck.

the raven thing is really perplexing. what are you suppose to do with the raven? pdd a mile away is all i can think of.

imo, the best fix is the battle hellion and thors without energy. in other words, hots. but i dont really wanna buy it if its anything close to $60

 

[Mairu]

I'm going to be super bored today and tomorrow so I ended up buying a Winter Arena pass ;|

 

[Corran Horn]

I'm going to be super bored today and tomorrow so I ended up buying a Winter Arena pass ;|

 

[Spl1nter]

Late game TvP sucks because bio is not greatly viable late game.
Durrrrrrr

Tanks are good, but then you have to deal with warp ins and the mobility of blink stalkers.
Ravens are good. Banshees are good.

It needs more time for people to figure out, not balance changes.

No they are not in late gaming. They have an extremely long build time, slow move speed and extremely expensive abilities with short range. Ravens are the worst

Spoiler

and most expensive

spell casters in the game, and its not even close.

 

[Corran Horn]

One thing that sucks about tournaments...no fucking streams to watch during the down time...Supernova and Sleep are streaming...and some BW/Dota stuff lol

 

[cdyhybrid]

-play Terran
-float thousands of gas late game
-refuse to make gas heavy units late game
-assume imbalance

 

[Keikaku]

Just bought my MLG Winter Arena pass. Pumped to see MVP and Nestea play. Also more Idra and possibly Naniwa oddity.

EDIT: And now I wait for TheNix to show up for help.

 

[(._.)]

Wait...$20 for just one weekend of MLG? Seems a tad high. $10 I could swallow, but $20 is asking a lot when I can get a full GSL season for less than that.

What finals are people talking about this weekend? I figured the GSL finals would end up outside of bar hours...or are they much later?

$20 isn't that much. It's the max imo. Seeing as this is a tournament in our time zones we will actually be able to enjoy all of it live in HD.

I'm ready. I got a pass... I think... sites laggy as fuck and I'm not sure how the stream will work. I'm logged on on twitch.tv and it says I purchased the subscription even though the payment page never went through yesterday.

 

[Hazaro]

in tvp:

tanks suck, ravens suck, banshees suck.

the raven thing is really perplexing. what are you suppose to do with the raven? pdd a mile away is all i can think of.

imo, the best fix is the battle hellion and thors without energy. in other words, hots. but i dont really wanna buy it if its anything close to $60

Dismiss those units and you tell me battle hellion and mega thor is the answer? Come on son.

No they are not in late gaming. They have an extremely long build time, slow move speed and extremely expensive abilities with short range. Ravens are the worst

Spoiler

and most expensive

spell casters in the game, and its not even close.

I was thinking of constant production through out the game and keeping them alive similar to vessels. You continually engage with PDD mid game, then use auto turrets late game like shitty forcefields to gain a better position, maybe use PDD along with bio mobility to force drops that normally could not happen.

 

[-COOLIO-]

-play Terran
-float thousands of gas late game
-refuse to make gas heavy units late game
-assume imbalance

the gas units suck in tvp

thors suck - ht
reapers suck - they just suck
bcs with no upgrades suck - ht/blink
banshees suck - ht
ravens suck - ht
tanks suck - blink/zealots

 

[-COOLIO-]

Dismiss those units and you tell me battle hellion and mega thor is the answer? Come on son.

I was thinking of constant production through out the game and keeping them alive similar to vessels. You continually engage with PDD mid game, then use auto turrets late game like shitty forcefields to gain a better position, maybe use PDD along with bio mobility to force drops that normally could not happen.

mega thor? no, warhounds would be amazing though (thats what i meant about thors without energy). picture it. battle hellion for tanking and killing the zealots and the warhounds doing bonus damage to the stalkers/immortals without taking shit from hts. whooooooo!

if mega thor has that aoe attack the odin had then that would be an awesome zealot slaughter machine too

 

[cdyhybrid]

the gas units suck in tvp

thors suck - ht
reapers suck - they just suck
bcs with no upgrades suck - ht/blink
banshees suck - ht
ravens suck - ht
tanks suck - blink/zealots

Have you actually put an honest effort into trying them? Or are you just assuming based on "on-paper" factors?

 

[Aylinato]

I enjoy people trying to say HT (a unit that only has two abilites, can't count archon thats a different units) is imbalanced against terran because you take some damage because of feedback.


Have you ever gone mass HT against mass thor? lolololol

 

[hamchan]

As a Terran player I'm not going to scream imbalance yet. I'll give it some time before QQing like other races have in the past and hopefully someone will figure out a new strat for the Terran late game. It just feels really bad that we've been nerfed so much by Blizzard in every patch. It's like every time the Terrans figured out a new strategy to start dominating, Blizzard immediately assumed imbalance instead of letting other races figure out their own counter strat.

 

[Vaporak]

the gas units suck in tvp

thors suck - ht
reapers suck - they just suck
bcs with no upgrades suck - ht/blink
banshees suck - ht
ravens suck - ht
tanks suck - blink/zealots

HT's suck - Ghosts. That didn't stop Protoss from practicing for a year and using them anyways did it? Less QQ more practice.

 

[Jeff-DSA]

I enjoy people trying to say HT (a unit that only has two abilites, can't count archon thats a different units) is imbalanced against terran because you take some damage because of feedback.

You definitely can count Archons. Ghosts and Infestors don't get to change into a killing machine when their energy runs out. Storm is the best AoE spell right now, and feedback is brutally efficient (better than snipe by far after the nerf) against any units that use energy.

 

[-COOLIO-]

Have you actually put an honest effort into trying them? Or are you just assuming based on "on-paper" factors?

ive tried tank, banshees, and thors against zealot heavy armies with no success. but what really makes this an issue is that players far better than me struggle with it too. check out the tl/blizz forums and youll hear the same stuff there.

 

[-COOLIO-]

HT's suck - Ghosts. That didn't stop Protoss from practicing for a year and using them anyways did it? Less QQ more practice.

hts merk ghosts too. its so easy to defend your hts with minimal effort. but its a black ops mission for the ghosts to emp them before or during an engagement

 

[-COOLIO-]

I enjoy people trying to say HT (a unit that only has two abilites, can't count archon thats a different units) is imbalanced against terran because you take some damage because of feedback.


Have you ever gone mass HT against mass thor? lolololol

you just need 1 feeback per 300/200 unit to quarter or even half its hp

 

[Keikaku]

Watching Sheth play in FPV against Demuslim for a practice game at MLG. Pretty sick.

 

[Aylinato]

you just need 1 feeback per 300/200 unit to quarter or even half its hp

LOL no. good try though

You definitely can count Archons. Ghosts and Infestors don't get to change into a killing machine when their energy runs out. Storm is the best AoE spell right now, and feedback is brutally efficient (better than snipe by far after the nerf) against any units that use energy.

Ghosts don't attack on their own? Terran saying infestors are not OP but HTs are, what is this?

Can you move when a storm is thrown down? yes? then it's not the best spell. feedback is efficient when you, terran, sit on you're ass and not micro all game. (lol thinking feedback counters BCs and thors, u guys r too full of bullshit.

 

[xmShake]

Have you actually put an honest effort into trying them? Or are you just assuming based on "on-paper" factors?

I've tried all of them and I can assure you they're shit.

 

[Mairu]

Idra looks like hes dying on the mlg stream

 

[-COOLIO-]

LOL no. good try though





Ghosts don't attack on their own? Terran saying infestors are not OP but HTs are, what is this?

Can you move when a storm is thrown down? yes? then it's not the best spell. feedback is efficient when you, terran, sit on you're ass and not micro all game. (lol thinking feedback counters BCs and thors, u guys r too full of bullshit.

full on counter? no, but the ht is a staple of the toss army you can count on for pretty much every situation (a standard toss will almost always use them). a 100-200 damage (on average) feedback plus stalker fire melts thors pretty quickly. just saying this unit blah blah blah its pointless at this point. tvp is what people are talking about right now, players far better than you and i. no answer is going to be as simple as:

unit x

 

[(._.)]

The production value on this is pretty damn good. 1080p stream looks incredible.

 

[Jeff-DSA]

LOL no. good try though





Ghosts don't attack on their own? Terran saying infestors are not OP but HTs are, what is this?

Can you move when a storm is thrown down? yes? then it's not the best spell. feedback is efficient when you, terran, sit on you're ass and not micro all game. (lol thinking feedback counters BCs and thors, u guys r too full of bullshit.

Storm is broken because it does more than force Terran to micro. While microing out of a storm, you can either pull your bio back and leave your Vikings to get hammered by the storm or Stalkers, or you can try and pull both back and NOTHING is attacking while Protoss just keeps marching forward. As you keep pulling units back to get away from storms, you take constant losses and you deal no damage. The radius on storm is simply too big.

Infestors do suck, but I think they've nerfed them down to an acceptable level. I'll always hate the root effect from fungal, but once an Infestor is out of energy it's a pretty awful unit for quite a while.

 

[(._.)]

can't hear shit :[