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[Dreams-Visions]

As a fellow LGBT member, all I can say is that your combative "you're with us or you're against us" approach is fucking exhausting.

With respect, we're fucking exhausted. Our friends are fucking exhausted. Our mothers and fathers are fucking exhausted. Our grandfathers and grandmothers are fucking exhausted. Our great grandmothers and great grandfathers and their mothers and fathers died fucking exhausted.

Maybe the abused, exhausted people aren't the ones that need the lecturing.

Maybe it's time to call spades spades if trying to approach them nicely isn't working. Sometimes people have to go through the pain of realizing they are part of the problem; not an ally or a "good person". Maybe some of these good christians need to be told by their pastors that they're going to hell if they can't exorcise this demon of hate for minorities and women from their hearts. People need less coddling and more sobering wakeup calls. Otherwise, these people will allow a negative peace (absence of tension) to reign instead of positive peace (presence of justice) that offers dignity, respect and opportunity for all. Absence of tension is comfortable; it means you can ignore us. The presence of Justice is what shines bright, hot lights in dark places, exposing the truth of people. That's uncomfortable. That's inconvenient. That's necessary.

 

[Loudninja]

How do people expect us to have conversations about racism when even here people dont listen to why we dont want to.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

How Do Trump Supporters See Black People? Less Evolved


Those percentages mean theres 10s on 10s of millions of White supremacists walking around who see me and mine as less evolved & worthy of subhuman treatment. Seems to me its Black folk who ought to be starting rebel militia, pro 2nd Amendment organisations, and investing in survival training.

I don't believe this. Trump supporters wouldn't believe in evolution. xD

Seriously though, uuuugh.

Spoiler

Of course, describing anyone as "less evolved" is a misunderstanding of evolution to begin with...

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

I know this is a very emotional topic for a lot of people, and that's entirely justified.
But I think it would be much more useful to try to look at this as an educational gap rather than a moral one.

If you think about it, 100-200 years ago a much larger percentage of white people, even highly enlightened ones, believed that black people were less evolved in one way or another.

These white people weren't evil or stupid, they just lived in a world that had yet to understand a lot of things and this influenced thier preconceptions and personal beliefs.

Over time many people naturally came to understand that this particular belief did not correspond with reality and they abandoned it with little to no struggle.
What was it that made them suddenly notice this discrepency where they hadn't noticed it before?

If we tried to look at the millions of individuals who went through such a process it's likely we'd find recurring pivotal experiences that helped reshape each person's world view. For example I'd wager that moving from the country into big cities where there is a much more heterogenous population was one such pivotal experience. Perhaps if these same people had stayed in their isolated rural environments nothing would have ever triggered this change of belief.

 

[Alucard725]

I think Jesse Williams' glorious BET speech had something incredibly relevant for many people in this thread, including OP

Why am I seeing all of these articles basically saying we should treat Trump supporters with kid gloves?

 

[Azerare]

Hilary getting called out for this quite something. She called them deplorable because they were.

Yes, and look where it got her election wise.

I agree with the article. People on here say they shouldn't "coddle" people but it's having an open discussion and trying to open their mind to different views.

If you don't want to put in work towards change, you shouldn't complain about it not happening. It's similar to people complaining about election results but not voting.

 

[call_kotaku]

How do people expect us to have conversations about racism when even here people dont listen to why we dont want to.

It just reminds me of social situations where you are with your white friend interacting with their other white friends:

If one of their other white friends says something offensive and you don't stand up for yourself, the other guy will go on with his life thinking it's okay because "this minority I know was okay with it".

If you do say something and the other guy gets defensive, your white friend gets annoyed at having to excuse your outburst to their friends.

If you don't say anything publicly and bring it up with your white friend in private, they'll hit you with some "you don't know Tommy, he's actually a really good guy" and act like you're on some passive aggressive shit.

If you try to calmly explain why they shouldn't say something like that while carefully implying that you aren't offended and that they don't need to get defensive, everyone else gets annoyed with you for making the conversation all about your racial agenda.

Like, I get it, it's hard to be a white progressive. You have to live in two worlds and you're constantly being forced to defend one from the other, but please stop pretending that defending minorities against bigotry is a case by case decision or that there's some sort of effective strategy out there which wouldn't involve me defending myself against your entire social circle.

 

[joe2187]

So what I've learned this election is that racists and sexists assholes are sensitive little easily offended snowflakes that cant take being called out on their shit, and we must be sensitive and understanding to their hate and intolerance...

what a fucking year 2016 turned out to be.

 

[Maxim726X]

How do people expect us to have conversations about racism when even here people dont listen to why we dont want to.

We're listening.

I can never understand what it's like to be black in this country. The responsibility to change the hearts and minds of people should never be, and is not now, on you. I hope that my response, and others who think similarly, don't come off as 'you should address it this way!' You have every right to to respond to racism any way you choose.

There are different paths to address it. I don't think anyone is telling you or anyone else what they should do, and if it comes off that way know that it's not my intent (and I hope others echo this).

 

[hawk2025]

Why am I seeing all of these articles basically saying we should treat Trump supporters with kid gloves?

Because they are scared shitless that, as they pivot to protect the midwest middle class through protectionism, we won't quiet down and take it.

 

[Mega]

I think a portion of the population are lost causes. These are the ones that always and forever see minorities as inferior and uncivilized, LGBT as mentally ill freaks and perverts, immigrants as violent, etc. But I also think a larger number are simply misinformed and automatically formed opinions without having to think about how they got to that point and never end up encountering the information that challenges and changes their perceptions (the Internet, smartphones and 100 TV channels doesn't automatically educates and inform you).

A friend of mine who was an otherwise nice person assumed that bi people are "confused" and transgender people were mentally ill... not like "goddamn disgusting freaks", but literally similar to someone with bipolar disorder or schizophrenia. She got that impression from her gay friends (this doesn't shock me). I explained what I knew at the time about bi/pansexual people... and in regards to trans people about the brain mismatching the body, the body dysphoria and to imagine if she woke up the next day looking like me despite knowing from all her experiences and emotions that she's a woman, etc.

Our calm, nuanced conversation changed her mind for the better and to this day she's supportive and understanding of LGBT people, and not only those who are gay and lesbian. I don't think that losing my cool and calling her an ignorant transphobic piece of shit, or something along those lines, would have been a better approach and yet that's exactly how some would have reacted, or worse before permanently shunning her. Most people are not these one-dimensional cartoon villains who hate everyone who's different. They're average people who are often willing to listen and learn.

 

[Enzom21]

We're listening.

I can never understand what it's like to be black in this country. The responsibility to change the hearts and minds of people should never be, and is not now, on you. I hope that my response, and others who think similarly, don't come off as 'you should address it this way!' You have every right to to respond to racism any way you choose.

There are different paths to address it. I don't think anyone is telling you or anyone else what they should do, and if it comes off that way know that it's not my intent (and I hope others echo this).

Uhh, no, but you could have a conversation with that nice white lady down the block that waves at you when you go for a jog, and doesn't understand why voting for Trump lumps her in the same group as the person that did that to your mom.

The OP(who has seemingly abandoned this thread... I guess he didn't like PoC telling him not to tell us what to do.) Did just that.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

So what I've learned this election is that racists and sexists assholes are sensitive little easily offended snowflakes that cant take being called out on their shit, and we must be sensitive and understanding to their hate and intolerance...

what a fucking year 2016 turned out to be.

Why is it so surprising to learn that people with an oversimplified and rigid world view aren't as emotionally mature as someone with a more flexible and open state of mind?

Do you get angry at a child for not understanding something that seems trivial to you?
And if so, do you believe getting angry at them is something that helps them understand better?

 

[Breads]

The OP(who has seemingly abandoned this thread... I guess he didn't like PoC telling him not to tell us what to do.) Did just that.

I'm going to quote this post of the OP again that came about in one of those blackface/ school insensitivity topics.

I know this might come as a shock, but the vast majority of people don't care about social justice and do not think about whether something is offensive or not. They just do what they think is fun (for right, or in this case, wrong).

The media, and forums like this, tend to hyper focus on these issues, making them seem much more popular than they are, while the rest of the world ignores them.

I does not surprise me at all that we keep seeing examples like this.

Note: I do not condone the behavior, just trying to bring light to the reason you keep seeing it happen.

They don't actually care. They just want to stifle the annoying progressive speak that offends their fragile sensibilities so. They don't condone it tho so its k fam

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I'm going to quote this post of the OP again that came about in one of those blackface/ school insensitivity topics.


They don't actually care. They just want to stifle the annoying progressive speak that offends their fragile sensibilities so. They don't condone it tho so its k fam

No surprise.

 

[joe2187]

Why is it so surprising to learn that people with an oversimplified and rigid world view aren't as emotionally mature as someone with a more flexible and open state of mind?

Do you get angry at a child for not understanding something that seems trivial to you?
And if so, do you believe getting angry at them is something that helps them understand better?

You can teach a child and maybe they will learn.

These are not children, these are adults, they're already set in their ways.

just read any twitter comments, any Youtube comments any newstory comments.

Trying to reach and teach these people doesnt work, no matter what way you approach them, civil or otherwise it really doesn't matter. They already have their beliefs, and the only way to teach them is to be with them face to face. You can try and have a discussion, but then others will dogpile, add unconstructive arguments and just break down any and all discussion.

Reaching out a hand through the internet is a futile gesture, the internet itself is a toxic mess. It's missing the key factor in bringing unity, actually coming together.

 

[Snowybreak]

Look.

See? Now you're reading this, but I'll keep it short for you.

The current situation with racism, sexism and homophobia is so fucking complex that boiling it down with a scientific study will not show the scope of the problem.

People here who are getting angry are getting angry because they've been dealing with this their entire lives and when some fuck comes over and tells them to maybe talk to these people who say fucked up things about their very being, they're gonna be pissed. Not because they feel themselves so morally superior, but because the people who have been racist/sexist/homophobic towards them have influenced their very worldview and the idea of having to deal with anyone that might be prejudiced against them is understandably repugnant to them.

Remember, these things haven't just existed over the past couple years, they go back hundreds, if not thousands, of years.

So when some study tells them that the things they've been angry about for generations should be solved peacefully and on a personal level, there is gonna be some fucking lashing out.

The people who are so deep though? Lost causes. Only cure for them is... Well... Not something nice.

 

[Silver Arrows]

I'm going to quote this post of the OP again that came about in one of those blackface/ school insensitivity topics.



They don't actually care. They just want to stifle the annoying progressive speak that offends their fragile sensibilities so. They don't condone it tho so its k fam

That is pretty much the OP in a nutshell.

"Shut up about your plight, minorities, I don't care and I don't wanna hear it" is essentially what it is being boiled down to.

 

[Maxim726X]

The OP(who has seemingly abandoned this thread... I guess he didn't like PoC telling him not to tell us what to do.) Did just that.

I can't speak for him, and it's sad that people still lack the empathy to realize that it's easy for white liberals to tell people what they should and should not be doing.

I'll continue to have these conversations with friends and family members... Some of which have at least questioned their beliefs. Hopefully, more will do the same.

 

[Enzom21]

I'm going to quote this post of the OP again that came about in one of those blackface/ school insensitivity topics.



They don't actually care. They just want to stifle the annoying progressive speak that offends their fragile sensibilities so. They don't condone it tho so its k fam

But of course that is what the OP is. His absence from the thread makes sense now.

fam

Lol, Pie and beans wasn't as slick as he thought he was with that coded language bullshit.

 

[Air]

I haven't kept up with this thread. Why exactly is it 13 pages? The point of the article seems pretty reasonable/ obvious

 

[Enzom21]

I haven't kept up with this thread. Why exactly is it 13 pages? The point of the article seems pretty reasonable/ obvious

White people telling PoC to surrender their humanity so they can make racists their allies.

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

I think one thing needs to be brought up about this study.

It only affects individual bigotry. The bigger stuff? This shit is ineffective. Slow and ineffective.

No movement made progress soley using the tactic in this article. None.

 

[nynt9]

You can teach a child and maybe they will learn.

These are not children, these are adults, they're already set in their ways.

just read any twitter comments, any Youtube comments any newstory comments.

Trying to reach and teach these people doesnt work, no matter what way you approach them, civil or otherwise it really doesn't matter. They already have their beliefs, and the only way to teach them is to be with them face to face. You can try and have a discussion, but then others will dogpile, add unconstructive arguments and just break down any and all discussion.

Reaching out a hand through the internet is a futile gesture, the internet itself is a toxic mess. It's missing the key factor in bringing unity, actually coming together.

While I do agree with parts of the article, this is a good point. I don't think this would work online. You need to be in person with them. Which limits the applicability of this obviously.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

White people telling PoC to surrender their humanity so they can make racists their allies.

fair trade. our humanity has never been regarded as all that valuable anyway, tbqh.

I think one thing needs to be brought up about this study.

It only affects individual bigotry. The bigger stuff? This shit is ineffective. Slow and ineffective.

No movement made progress soley using the tactic in this article. None.

Stop that. Think of their sensibilities, egos and fragility.

 

[Alucard725]

Because they are scared shitless that, as they pivot to protect the midwest middle class through protectionism, we won't quiet down and take it.

It didn't have to be this way but here we are. You're damn right we won't take. I'm hoping we won't.

 

[The Shadow]

This has absolutely been my experience in dealing with my friends and family.

Mine as well. I've actually been able to soften and even change people's minds. I'm not always successful, and have nearly gotten into fist fights over what I thought were racist remarks, but outside of a few stubborn lost causes, I think it's probably the best way to change people's minds.

If you want to change people's minds anyway. There's a funny MEME picture of a celebrating dude that says, "When someone tells me to 'calm down' and my anxiety is cured." It kind of reminds me of this situation. Calling a racist guy a racist isn't going to ignite some kind of miraculous insight in their mind that what they're saying or doing is bad. You literally have to explain it to people who have believed things a certain way for a long time.

I've had to explain how "reverse racism" was the dumbest load of shit to people, because they simply don't get it. Sometimes it works and they understand, sometimes they don't.

 

[Kinyou]

I'm going to quote this post of the OP again that came about in one of those blackface/ school insensitivity topics.



They don't actually care. They just want to stifle the annoying progressive speak that offends their fragile sensibilities so. They don't condone it tho so its k fam

What's so wrong about what he's saying? It's arguably true that the karge majority of people don't care about these issues very much or else they would have been fixed by now. But he himself condemns it. He isnt telling anyone to stop complaining or anything like that

 

[Somnid]

An observation from the black student/teacher thread:

I think it's interesting that many people in disagreement have responded with a flippant statements and setting up strawmen: "coddling racists", "fragile snowflakes", "Ah, so this guy hurling racial slurs apparently can't be called racist. Got it." There is a prime lack of awareness in these statements and completely illustrative that the point did not hit the mark with that person because they are engaging in groundless and emotionally charged counters designed to shut down the conversation or create unpleasant background noise to drown it out. Even in our little bubble of meta-level arguments, it's not having an substantial effect on the outcome, but it gives us the opportunity to explore. I'm curious to hear from the other side, when you actually think about it, what prompted the post? Who was it to benefit? Yourself? Did it work? I'm not fishing for answers, I'm just curious about the appeal and maybe promote reflection since it's nothing I'd think about without a prompt.

 

[mckmas8808]

Been arguing the same since the end of the election.

This isn't the way to change things. It only makes people back into a corner and hunker down.

Is it on the oppressed to find ways to stop the oppressor from being rude, cruel, and demeaning?

 

[Inspector Jones]

You can teach a child and maybe they will learn.

These are not children, these are adults, they're already set in their ways.

just read any twitter comments, any Youtube comments any newstory comments.

Trying to reach and teach these people doesnt work, no matter what way you approach them, civil or otherwise it really doesn't matter. They already have their beliefs, and the only way to teach them is to be with them face to face. You can try and have a discussion, but then others will dogpile, add unconstructive arguments and just break down any and all discussion.

Reaching out a hand through the internet is a futile gesture, the internet itself is a toxic mess. It's missing the key factor in bringing unity, actually coming together.

Certain people are lost causes, they are so ingrained in their thinking there is no reaching out to them, but I don't think confronting them head on isn't going to help either. If you're man enough to call them out as racist, then congrats on having the courage to do the right thing and I commend anyone who does so, but I'm not looking to waste my time on them and risk either being berated or possibly risk physical violence with someone like that on a human garbage. Calling a racist a racist isn't going to make them suddenly change their minds and care about their fellow man regardless of the color of their skin or differing beliefs and most likely will just upset them because they're practically neanderthals. I do not have a solution for these people, well no peaceful one anyway. It sucks that poc and other minorities have to live in fear of them, but the sad truth is they exist and until they die they're going to be causing misery and pain the rest of their existence because most of them are at least smart enough to conceal it unless they are among like minded individuals.

There are some people out there who have wrong ideas/beliefs that can be reached through civil discussion though; They could be just misinformed, maybe they don't follow the news or lead a sheltered life, or any number of possibilities. These are the people who can be won over if shown and challenged to think about things, they just need someone to show them the way or remind them to be mindful that not everyone's life is the same as theirs. And these people don't need to be yelled at and accused of being racist if they possess the ability to change because that requires an open mind, which usually goes hand in hand with possessing intelligence. At least more then the stereotypical racist moron. If after discussing with them they still cling to a belief that you find racist, then that's the point where I'd end with, "Okay, but that's racist as shit".

 

[The Shadow]

Is it on the oppressed to find ways to stop the oppressor from being rude, cruel, and demeaning?

Who else? Seriously, aside from the oppressed, who else is going to give a shit? Do we rely on a system that's predominantly white? People to just wake up one day and realize what they're doing? Jesus to decent from heaven?

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

Who else? Seriously, aside from the oppressed, who else is going to give a shit? Do we rely on a system that's predominantly white? People to just wake up one day and realize what they're doing? Jesus to decent from heaven?

yep

 

[joe2187]

Who else? Seriously, aside from the oppressed, who else is going to give a shit? Do we rely on a system that's predominantly white? People to just wake up one day and realize what they're doing? Jesus to decent from heaven?

What if jesus is a black guy tho?

 

[mckmas8808]

Certain people are lost causes, they are so ingrained in their thinking there is no reaching out to them, but I don't think confronting them head on isn't going to help either. If you're man enough to call them out as racist, then congrats on having the courage to do the right thing and I commend anyone who does so, but I'm not looking to waste my time on them and risk either being berated or possibly risk physical violence with someone like that on a human garbage. Calling a racist a racist isn't going to make them suddenly change their minds and care about their fellow man regardless of the color of their skin or differing beliefs and most likely will just upset them because they're practically neanderthals. I do not have a solution for these people, well no peaceful one anyway. It sucks that poc and other minorities have to live in fear of them, but the sad truth is they exist and until they die they're going to be causing misery and pain the rest of their existence because most of them are at least smart enough to conceal it unless they are among like minded individuals.

There are some people out there who have wrong ideas/beliefs that can be reached through civil discussion though; They could be just misinformed, maybe they don't follow the news or lead a sheltered life, or any number of possibilities. These are the people who can be won over if shown and challenged to think about things, they just need someone to show them the way or remind them to be mindful that not everyone's life is the same as theirs. And these people don't need to be yelled at and accused of being racist if they possess the ability to change because that requires an open mind, which usually goes hand in hand with possessing intelligence. At least more then the stereotypical racist moron. If after discussing with them they still cling to a belief that you find racist, then that's the point where I'd end with, "Okay, but that's racist as shit".

Not a terrible response, but sometimes you have to keep in mind that many of us black people have had those conversations with possible "racist" people and seen that it hasn't changed any minds.

So after dealing with this year after year, it becomes easier and less stressful to start writing people off after hearing certain "trigger" words.

Who else? Seriously, aside from the oppressed, who else is going to give a shit? Do we rely on a system that's predominantly white? People to just wake up one day and realize what they're doing? Jesus to decent from heaven?

Great point and question. So if it is on us, then it's also hard to read someone say "you are in charge with changing racist people's minds but you can't do this or do that." It's like fighting with one hand behind your back.

 

[The Shadow]

What if jesus is a black guy tho?

Black or white, Jesus ain't coming back.

Great point and question. So if it is on us, then it's also hard to read someone say "you are in charge with changing racist people's minds but you can't do this or do that." It's like fighting with one hand behind your back.

I totally 100% understand.

My point is that something's got to give. When you have one side shouting "Nigger!" and the other "Racist!" it's just back and forth with no end in sight. Well, I take it back. The racist guys have megaphones and rifles now. I was trying to make an analogy, but now that I think about it, a lot of racist white guys literally do have megaphones and rifles.

If you're that angry, that mad that you don't want to sit down, talk, and try to get some racist dude to understand, I'm perfectly fine with that. PoC have all the reason to be angry. Uneducated white guys have their reasons to be angry, but blame their problems on the wrong people, so yeah, I'm always going to side with the angry black guy, even if deep down I think they both should sit down and have a talk.

PoC don't "owe" anything to racists. I just think it's mutually beneficial to at least give it a shot, to talk instead of scream and dismiss. Lots of people are going to be stubborn and angry anyway, but if you can convince just one guy to accept PoC and LGBT, I think it's worth it.

 

[Jarate]

Nobody is saying that you shouldn't call a spade a spade, and the goal isn't going to be a surefire way of converting everyone out of racist ideals. Racism is something that is inherently a human flaw. We love to section ourselves off with people we are comfortable with

The issue people are failing to understand is that a lot of racism is more ignorance then anything. People live in incredibly segregated societies where they have no chance to even interact with minorities in any way. Ignorance is not evil, ignorance can be helped by teaching. I have actively done these things in the real world, and yes, I will never change 100% of people, but I know for certain that by not patronizing them and by bringing points that are logical that I can change a few peoples viewpoints.

The goal isn't to wear kiddie gloves, these discussions in fact have to have an air of maturity, as a sign of maturity is empathy, but to not be as abrasive as people currently are. Abrasiveness doesn't lead to people getting together and understanding each other. Abrasiveness leads to more segregation of ideas

And this isn't on the onus of POCs and minorities, in fact, part of the message should be empathy for those who feel disenfranchised. There is a huge issue though with people who are white, cis, and other majorities being as abrasive as humanly possible for the sole purpose of making themselves feel better. We in fact should have the onus of making sure people don't fuck this up even more as we are the bridge in a segregated society.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

I'm going to quote this post of the OP again that came about in one of those blackface/ school insensitivity topics.



They don't actually care. They just want to stifle the annoying progressive speak that offends their fragile sensibilities so. They don't condone it tho so its k fam

There it is. This isn't about the research, it's just another person on the Internet who found a link to validate their simple thoughts, so now they can use minorities' struggles as a weapon against their own self-advocacy.

 

[Violet_0]

Is it on the oppressed to find ways to stop the oppressor from being rude, cruel, and demeaning?

it shouldn't be, but on the other hand the oppressor has no real incentive to change their behavior either other than basic decency, humanity and empathy, all of which they are clearly lacking. The question is if treating them differently would have any effect at all, of which I'm doubtful at least in many cases

 

[Breads]

What's so wrong about what he's saying? It's arguably true that the karge majority of people don't care about these issues very much or else they would have been fixed by now. But he himself condemns it. He isnt telling anyone to stop complaining or anything like that

I am wary of Astro turf/ concern troll/ tone policing tactics that are being used to normalize this kind of bullshit. Especially now when people are using me as a prop, telling me that it's my fault... that I lost the election for us because I didn't value bigots over my own dignity. It's very easy to get your point across while navigating around the red flags but this person in particular has caught my attention before and I no longer give them the benefit of the doubt.

As for the substance of the quote itself I believe we all are aware of how the status quo works. Beyond that I don't get what the point of it is if I take it at face value. That's why I have an alternate interpretation instead.

 

[Inspector Jones]

Not a terrible response, but sometimes you have to keep in mind that many of us black people have had those conversations with possible "racist" people and seen that it hasn't changed any minds.

So after dealing with this year after year, it becomes easier and less stressful to start writing people off after hearing certain "trigger" words.

No, I realize that. I don't think any black people should be forced to take that risk on themselves to try and start a civil conversation with someone who says something racist/ignorant hoping they might be an okay reasonable person. I don't hear people say racist shit often because I don't hang out with racist people, but when I do hear something that's even slightly questionable, I'll ring in and be like, "Uhmm. What did you just say?".

EDIT: And of course it can be extremely hard to tell who is a lost cause and who might just be misinformed because as mentioned before because the really bigoted people usually have some sense of self awareness and don't just start hating on people unprompted.

On the same hand, I just think that minorities should know that their white allies don't want to deal with lost causes anymore then they do. Which I'm not saying you or anyone else in this thread has said that. I really wish there was a solution for dealing with them effectively.

 

[Frozenprince]

Great so we've established white "allies" aren't gonna do shit and it's just our burden. Cool. Thanks at least for that.

And I'm not going to bother responding to a long winded pay that basically called me intellectually a child, it's insulting to dismiss me because I'm angry. Good and God damn right I'm angry and you can fuck right off for telling me not to be angry and dismissive and combative. News flash. To me, this isn't somer thought experiment or intellectual guessing game. This shit is my LIFE. I'm so sorry you're tired of liberals saying you're not liberal enough. I'm sorry you still all very clearly DO NOT UNDERSTAND or anger. I'm sorry that you feel marginalized. I'm not sorry for talking the way I do and I'm not sorry for being angry.

Why is that so hard to get into people's heads? Why is it so god damn hard to understand WHY we are angry.

It's because y'all can dress it however you want. You don't give a fuck about us if it means you have to sacrifice with the rest of us.

 

[theignoramus]

it shouldn't be, but on the other hand the oppressor has no real incentive to change their behavior either other than basic decency, humanity and empathy, all of which they are clearly lacking. The question is if treating them differently would have any effect at all, of which I'm doubtful at least in many cases

It doesnt have any effect. The answer shouldve been definitive after MLK got assassinated. That man bent over backwards to appeal to the "better angels" of White supremacy & what he got for his efforts was a campaign of FBI harassment, then a bullet.
White supremacists dont care about fairness or empathy, they care about domination and maintaining a racial hierarchy. You can work with people that want separate & equal, White supremacists dont want that & never have, they want separate and lesser than for everyone else.

 

[Par Score]

Yo, get ready for the next 4 years of Dems and Liberals pushing this stuff so they can lay the ground for throwing minorities (further) under the bus at the next election.

Gotta pander to those Trump supporter's Genuine Concerns.

 

[EloquentM]

This is generally the direction a lot of research leans to in regards to criticism. People don't do well when you're critical of them. It's better to help them understand the behavior that you want them to do instead of saying don't do this, or you're a this. A lot of people have a no bullshit attitude though and this method is hard to push. Sometimes you just want to tell people "you're a fuckwit"

 

[Ms.Galaxy]

Yo, get ready for the next 4 years of Dems and Liberals pushing this stuff so they can lay the ground for throwing minorities (further) under the bus at the next election.

Gotta pander to those Trump supporter's Genuine Concerns.

Getting that same feeling, and it's starting to bother me. A lot of this thread made me open my eyes that our "allies" aren't going to do anything.

You know, being an ally doesn't just mean accepting us, it means fighting with and for us. I know it's easy for you to say, "I support x rights" and pat yourself on the back, but that's not enough and it's time for you to start carrying your own weight here or stop actually saying you're an ally.

Because saying "I support criminal justice reform to stop the corruption of police against the black community" and "Black lives do matter", and then complaining about them marching in the streets in protest, blocking off roads, literally the only way they can have their voices heard, isn't helping. Instead of understanding them, you will incite hypotheticals and Nana Ruthing, you will state that MLK wouldn't do this, when in fact he did, you will tell them that they should do it in the sidewalks so people can just ignore them. Basically, I support you, but I'm not going to put in the effort, and don't try to inconvenience me.

Yeah, you're not our allies. We've been at this for years, some of us since the day we were born. To tell us that maybe we should try to reach out to these people who will call us subhuman and treat us subhuman, to talk with them so they can understand, is rich, it's really fucking rich. As if we haven't tried that strategy before. They don't care, they won't listen to us, because a lot of them already made up their mind and see us less than them. Our words mean little to them.

 

[mckmas8808]

This is generally the direction a lot of research leans to in regards to criticism. People don't do well when you're critical of them. It's better to help them understand the behavior that you want them to do instead of saying don't do this, or you're a this. A lot of people have a no bullshit attitude though and this method is hard to push. Sometimes you just want to tell people "you're a fuckwit"

Or sometimes you get tired of trying to help people "understand". You'll only open the eyes of 1 or 2 out of 10 racist people. At some point the burden becomes to heavy for minorities.

It's like asking a woman to explain to a rapist why she should be able to wear a sexy dress and not get raped. At some point some body has got to tell the potential rapist that it's HIS fault that he has the urge to rape a pretty lady in a sexy dress.

Her not calling him a rapist or rapist sympathizer isn't going to change him. This is because at some point (and lets be honest here) he was told or heard that raping women is wrong. He knows better or at least should know better.

 

[hawk2025]

Getting that same feeling, and it's starting to bother me. A lot of this thread made me open my eyes that our "allies" aren't going to do anything.

You know, being an ally doesn't just mean accepting us, it means fighting with and for us. I know it's easy for you to say, "I support x rights" and pat yourself on the back, but that's not enough and it's time for you to start carrying your own weight here or stop actually saying you're an ally.

Because saying "I support criminal justice reform to stop the corruption of police against the black community" and "Black lives do matter", and then complaining about them marching in the streets in protest, blocking off roads, literally the only way they can have their voices heard, isn't helping. Instead of understanding them, you will incite hypotheticals and Nana Ruthing, you will state that MLK wouldn't do this, when in fact he did, you will tell them that they should do it in the sidewalks so people can just ignore them. Basically, I support you, but I'm not going to put in the effort, and don't try to inconvenience me.

Yeah, you're not our allies.

This, this, and this.

Allies are tested in trying times, not when the coalition is winning.

You may not see it this way now, but you guys are telling us to sit down, behave, and wait for our turn to come back around again.

That's not going to happen.

 

[EloquentM]

Or sometimes you get tired of trying to help people "understand". You'll only open the eyes of 1 or 2 out of 10 racist people. At some point the burden becomes to heavy for minorities.

It's like asking a woman to explain to a rapist why she should be able to wear a sexy dress and not get raped. At some point some body has got to tell the potential rapist that it's HIS fault that he has the urge to rape a pretty lady in a sexy dress.

Her not calling him a rapist or rapist sympathizer isn't going to change him. This is because at some point (and lets be honest here) he was told or heard that raping women is wrong. He knows better or at least should know better.

i agree which is why I don't tell white people what to think anymore. I feel completely misunderstood time and time again in regards to race relations with whites and even other monorities. I was simply pointing out what research suggests in order to get people to understand different viewpoints. Literally treating people like children without patronizing them is how people understand what they're doing wrong. It sucks but that's what research suggests, and I personally don't think that's the answer.

 

[The Shadow]

Her not calling him a rapist or rapist sympathizer isn't going to change him. This is because at some point (and lets be honest here) he was told or heard that raping women is wrong. He knows better or at least should know better.

Should know better, right? But what if you grew up in an environment where everyone around you told you Mexicans took your dad's job? Or that muslims were responsible for all the evil and conflict in the middle east? Or that black people live in ghettos because they're lazy and have too many babies?

When you've grown up in an environment where that's common sense, that's how the world *is*, can you expect them to just wake up and realize what they're doing is wrong?


We know better, because we live and work side by side with white people, and black people, and muslims, and Mexicans, and LBGT, but would we know better if we didn't?