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Pope Francis warns that education on transgender subjects is "against nature"

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Pope warns of 'ideological colonization' in transgender teachings - CNN
https://apple.news/A4UfSWMxqR0KXrU5Tc68dlw

On a return flight to Rome at the end of a three-day trip to Georgia and Azerbaijan, the Pope recounted a meeting with a French father whose young son wanted to be a girl after reading about it in a textbook.

"This is against nature," he said. "It is one thing when someone has this tendency ... and it is another matter to teach this in school."

"To change the mentality — I call this ideological colonization," the Pope said.

The Pope said he still spends time with transgender people, leading them closer to God.

In August, the Pope called the teaching of gender identity theory "terrible."

"Today, in schools they are teaching this to children — to children! — that everyone can choose their gender," Pope Francis said.
Click to expand...
 
L

LegendofLex

Member
To change the mentality — I call this ideological colonization
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I'm Catholic, but it's reeeeeal silly to hear the leader of one of the world's most widely exported religions talk about ideological colonization like it's a bad thing.

Not to mention that he doesn't even understand the concept:

Today, in schools they are teaching this to children — to children! — that everyone can choose their gender
Click to expand...
 
S

StarCreator

Member
"Today, in schools they are teaching this to children — to children! — that everyone can choose their gender," Pope Francis said.
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Like the last time this came up, this reads as ambiguous to me. He's right in that no one chooses their gender identity - no one rational would choose to be transgender, after all. It just is.
 
K

Kayhan

Member
Pro tip: NeoGAF will always be leagues ahead on the Progressiveness Scale of a guy who heads a major old religious institution.
 
G

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
HylianHistorian said:
No one chooses this. Disappointing but not surprising to hear the Pope say this.
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I'm not sure he even understands the difference between biological sex and gender identity. The choice to perform surgery - for example - is to him the 'choice to change' rather than something that comes from an internal state that already exists.

People will express disappointment in Francis, but he's really little different to his predecessors on this stuff. The Catholic Church's understanding of human nature is in some respects light years in the past.
 
G

gutter_trash

Banned
life finds a way

there are gay animals in the animal kingdom, probably there are transgender animals too



the Pope has to peddle his religious Conservatism, just ignore him
 
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StarCreator said:
Like the last time this came up, this reads as ambiguous to me. He's right in that no one chooses their gender identity - no one rational would choose to be transgender, after all. It just is.
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In full context, he's saying it is wrong for people to be taught about this because he says it will convince kids to change gender. And "against nature." That's some ignorant bullshit.
 
S

SaganIsGOAT

Junior Member
But you don't just choose your gender Pope. God damn I can't believe people think it is that simple :/

Choose your sexuality
Choose your gender

Are we ever going to show everyone these aren't choices?
 
S

Seventy70

Member
gofreak said:
I'm not sure he even understands the difference between biological sex and gender identity. The choice to perform surgery - for example - is to him the 'choice to change' rather than something that comes from an internal state that already exists.

People will express disappointment in Francis, but he's really little different to his predecessors on this stuff. The Catholic Church's understanding of human nature is in some respects light years in the past.
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Sure, I guess people can be disappointed. I do think this pope deserves some credit though. It feels like he's actually trying to understand rather than just repeating things he's heard. He can differ on the conclusions he comes to, but at least he gives it a shot. And above all, he isn't being hateful. I bet you could sit down with him and have a level headed discussion on this. That to me makes him cool.
 
D

DragonSworne

Banned
What is the big deal if someone decides to switch sex to match their gender? What harm does it cause you? Why does the Pope give a shit? Why does anyone even make it their business to pry into other people's Matter?
 
P

petethepanda

Member
The Vatican has an excellent marketing team that does some great work lately, but it's good to have a reminder once in a while of "oh, right, he's the Pope."
 
S

Slayven

Member
I don't know why people keep getting fooled by "Cool Pope", dude is the same as what came before him or else he wouldn't have gotten the job
 
D

DeaconKnowledge

Member
Let's just take out a few words in the title of the OP:

Pope Francis warns that education on transgender subjects is "against nature"
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Pope Francis warns that education is "against nature"
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The subject is largely irrelevant to me. When you make an argument like this you've already lost.
 
JeTmAn81

JeTmAn81

Member
DragonSworne said:
What is the big deal if someone decides to switch sex to match their gender? What harm does it cause you? Why does the Pope give a shit? Why does anyone even make it their business to pry into other people's Matter?
Click to expand...

Hormones and body-altering surgery aren't harmless. It makes sense to be concerned for someone who is harming themselves.
 
L

Lumination

'enry 'ollins
Given that I think he's had good things to say about the topic in the past, I think there's a little confusion on both sides.

"This is against nature," he said. "It is one thing when someone has this tendency ... and it is another matter to teach this in school."
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This says to me that he is ok with transgender people, but he (erroneously) thinks that schools are encouraging young children to decide on their gender identity as if this were a "decision" to be made.

Considering his track record on other social issues, I'm willing to give him the benefit the doubt and say that this is more of a statement out of ignorance for gender identity and the role that schools play in that education rather than malice.
 
B

Bay Maximus

Banned
I mean, did people expect the Pope to be the next Keith Olbermann or something? His understanding of the world will always be saddled by the Bible. It comes with the job.
 
G

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Seventy70 said:
Sure, I guess people can be disappointed. I do think this pope deserves some credit though. It feels like he's actually trying to understand rather than just repeating things he's heard.
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On some levels he is, but on others he is just caving to fundamentalist pressures it seems. Trying to play to both sides of the crowd? I don't know... but he can't have it both ways.

This article has some context:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/worl...2814988?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

France’s education minister Najat Vallaud-Belkacem has reacted angrily to remarks by Pope Francis regarding the alleged teaching of “gender theory” in French schools.


...

“The pope seems convinced that French teachers spend their time teaching children that one can change one’s sex,” the minister continued. “This is totally unfounded. He is the victim of a massive disinformation campaign led by the fundamentalists of the Lejeune foundation, Vigivender and others… I advise the pope to meet French teachers and discuss it with them, to look at the school manuals himself…”

The French curriculum teaches that “it’s important to understand that one gender is not superior to the other,” Ms Vallaud-Belkacem said. The education ministry was fighting harrassment and violence against women. “Is it written that equality between men and women means one can change sex? Obviously not.”
...

Ms Vallaud-Belkacem was supported by teachers’ unions and even the conservative presidential candidate Nathalie Kosciusko-Morizet, who told Europe 1 radio station that the pope had “jumped to conclusions”.

Ms Kosciusko-Morizet is the mother of two boys, aged 7 and 11. “I study the school manuals closely,” she said. “I have never found anything resembling gender theory and I have never heard anything resembling it coming out of their school.”
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He has a habit of doing this...talking out of both sides of his mouth depending on his audience.
 
M

Man Called Aerodynamics

Member
petethepanda said:
The Vatican has an excellent marketing team that does some great work lately, but it's good to have a reminder once in a while of "oh, right, he's the Pope."
Click to expand...

I see it the opposite way... The Pope and the church at large remain backwards on some subjects and will remain that way for the foreseeable future, but when they do make progressive strides that deserves to be celebrated.
 
D

Dougald

Member
"Today, in schools they are teaching this to children — to children! — that everyone can choose their gender," Pope Francis said.
Click to expand...

Isn't the whole point about being transgender that you can't choose it?

Just like I can want to be gay all I like but it still doesn't make me so.
 
G

GamingOblivion

Banned
StarCreator said:
Like the last time this came up, this reads as ambiguous to me. He's right in that no one chooses their gender identity - no one rational would choose to be transgender, after all. It just is.
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I mean, but that's not the point he's making. He's just showing his completely misunderstanding of what being trans actually is.
 
B

Beartruck

Member
While this is dissapointing, the catholic church is one of the most conservative organizations in the world. I guess the best we can hope for is he keeps pushing the bar forward and maybe the next pope wont be as shitty to transgender people.
 
Astral Dog

Astral Dog

Member
were talking the other day on the kitchen and i got very upset about this, but frankly i havent heard much of this specific theme before. my family (specially my sister. who is slightly more pro gay ) said this education was stupid and idiotic.
But i never really got her point of view, i understand there is going to be serious problems implementing such system and some things will (need( be changed or ignored , but it can be only for good right? i believe at the very least gender awareness has to be teached to show the children not everything is black and white,because what we have right now is not working much, at least on my country
 
L

LucidMomentum

Member
I mean in theory the decadence of the Vatican goes against the teachings of the bible, and the practice of monogamy (or celibacy, for that matter) is "against nature."

So eh.
 
A

Amalthea

Banned
I wish the Vatican would one day pay for their nearly 2000 years of crimes against humanity. Fucking hypocritical proto-Mafia.
 
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JeTmAn81 said:
Hormones and body-altering surgery aren't harmless. It makes sense to be concerned for someone who is harming themselves.
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"harming themselves"???

Transgender people are harming themselves if they choose hormone treatments or reassignment surgery?
 
F

Felix Lighter

Member
The only reason Pope Francis is considered progressive in any way compared to popes that came before him, is that he's not as focused on the bigoted beliefs of the Catholic church. That doesn't mean his views are not inline with the church on those matters, however.
 
N

Neoriceisgood

Member
"Today, in schools they are teaching this to children — to children! — that everyone can choose their gender, those fucking cucks." Pope Francis said.
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Yeah that's not too surprising to hear, a lot of the positive stuff he's said has always been seemingly exaggerated from what I remember.
 
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