Zoe
Member
That's what worries me. You would think (hope) that the feds are on top of any group efforts that are brewing, but how do you catch the lone wolf who does everything by the book?
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San Bernardino shooting: Attacker pledged allegiance to ISIS, officials say
- Thread starter Omiee
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That's what worries me. You would think (hope) that the feds are on top of any group efforts that are brewing, but how do you catch the lone wolf who does everything by the book?
Big Green Anus
Member
This honestly made me feel nauseous. Besides bombing Isis locations, is there anything America can do to stop them?
This is fucking lunacy. I think even GOP voters should be pissed.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
I'm obviously joking.
You're probably right. Jesus, this is gonna get messy.
FTFY
There is nothing stopping anyone from doing this. I have a 12 gauge shotgun with 5 round capacity and a 9mm with 19 round capacity and 3 magazines for it, there is literally nothing stopping me from loading them up and going anywhere public and opening fire. (other than the fact that i'm A) not crazy, B) value my life and freedom and C) value other peoples lives in addition to mine.)
you can find out how to make bombs online from household products pretty easily as well.
If it's true - well, anyone can perform an attack independently and say it was 'for' ISIS, without any actual prior contact with them. I'm sure ISIS encourages that in fact. On the official ISIS side, of course, it means they don't necessarily know about every attack that might be credited to them before it happens.
In a nutshell - I guess this is completely possible when you are dealing with an ideology rather than a singular group or nation.
I would expect a certain amount of 'isolated' attackers who are really just imbalanced or who would carry out a shooting anyway to credit it for ISIS simply to be associated with something bigger than themselves.
Washington before Rome, huh. At least they're ambitious.
There was already a thread about this, and how it was "suspected" terrorists.
valkillmore
Member
No it is not.
'Engage' means to 'occupy, attract or involve someone's attention or interest.' That's exactly what she did by posting to the Facebook account. It's obviously attracted a WHOLE LOT of attention.
Here is the news from BBC:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-35006404
It states in the article that they were 'self-radicalized,' but if it's an ideology, what does that matter? You do a terrorist act, and pledge support to ISIS on Facebook or any other public forum, guess what, you're ISIS. That's how we should be treating it.
Cosmonaut X
Member
"Engaging with ISIS" being posting something apparently pledging allegiance who-knows-where on Facebook isn't "being in contact" though.
I'd be more concerned about the talk above of them meeting people of interest in SA while they were there, as that points more seriously toward interactions with extremists.
However, there's clearly still a lot to be turned over, and I think it's safer to look at the current law enforcement line - self-radicalised sympathisers - as being most plausible until something more official comes out.
No, I don't agree. I think you have to draw a distinction between ISIS as most of us understand it (pretty much a barbaric religious state scattered across sections of the Middle East with local power) people like the attackers in Paris (in contact with ISIS/associated with ISIS but homegrown in many ways) and the couple here (no obvious contact with ISIS, but clearly inspired by them as others have been inspired by Al Qaeda etc. etc. and apparently acting alone on their own timetable).
I don't say this to try and minimise the dangers from any of these groups, but because it's important to make the distinction as it determines how best to deal with them. The way you deal with the threat from ISIS is different from how you deal with the threat from people potentially inspired by them, which is different from how you protect against people being actively recruited etc. etc.
Future PhaZe
Member
So he didn't seem to have the personal finances to purchase his warchest for the massacre
which points to a financier of some sort
which points to a financier of some sort
We don't know if they were in touch with ISIS members. We have a report stating that the wife pledged allegiance to the group. When Obama is talking about ISIS, he's talking about the actual organization - not people who commit atrocities in the name of the organization who have no legitimate contact with them.
RPGCrazied
Member
Wish we could just get rid of facebook and twitter, that would hurt them with trying to recruiting others.
Calamari41
41 > 38
How is the list compiled?
You'd think these companies would report these individuals to Governments to arrest their asses as being members of terror groups.
Religion > all, which is goddamn scary
I personally see no solution other than Muslims conquering the ideology from within.
captainnapalm
Member
So according to that Fox News article he was still getting into arguments with co-workers, defending Islam as a religion of peace, two weeks ago.
What a terrible idea. You restrict the freedom of the common people, while the terrorists just use any of the other thousand possiblities to communicate. Messenger, online mmorpgs, coded phone calls and sms, Google+
Exactly. The fact that they were radicalized lone wolves makes it much worse.
freenudemacusers
Member
Finally, someone will use google+
valkillmore
Member
We are in a moment of history where it seems things are so new and so unknown/unpredictable that acts like this don't need to meet 'traditional criteria' for being deemed an 'official ISIS attack.' There only needs to be one smoking gun. If this was simply a workplace grievance, or 'domestic terrorism' as some have speculated, why even bother posting on a pro-ISIS Facebook group in the first place? It stinks to high heaven of conspiracy.
This is exactly my line of thinking. There should be NO DISTINCTION. Oh, she only posted on Facebook ISIS group, she's not actually a 'member of ISIS.' Like they have to pay fucking union dues or some stupid shit.
Because it's important. It's both terrible, but you have to consider the difference to make meaningful precautions. People being inspired by ISIS make it more difficult for the law and authorities and more dangerous for citizens.
TarpitCarnivore
Member
One rep who voted against it said that there are innocent people who end up on terror lists, so it'd be wrong to deny them their right. I'm not joking.
Anton Sugar
Member
Considering they got the number of attackers wrong, yeah, this clearly wasn't a "sponsored by ISIS" attack.
OG_Original Gamer
Member
It also seemed personal, they limited the attack to just one location inside the regional center. Most terrorist attacks aren't that focused. The Muslim community at this point have to become more vigilant and report things they see or hear.
That's what we do...we order and categorize and sub-categorize to make our arguments valid. Nuance is king!
krackerjack
Member
The thing with fear is that it knows no race. Where as Hillary embraces immigration and voices her support for the black community, that might only go so far when it comes to fear. Trump saying we are going to deport the whole lot and not let anybody else in while bombing the hell out of their country makes people feel like their safety is going to be greatly upped. Trump's rhetoric on basically not taking any chances with people that have a name that might sound "different" is now valid to fearful people after the names and context came out around the sadness in California.
A couple questions:
1) if I remember correctly, Tashfeen is of Saudi ethnicity and from Pakistan with a Pakistani passport. My original impression of many Saudis in Afghanistan & Pakistan is that many would have gone over during either the 80s as fighters against the Soviets or in the 00s as fighters against the Americans. In either case, they often had a Taliban or Al Qaeda tie. I imagine even those who were not directly involved in the war would have gotten involved in their ex-pat community. Was Tashfeen born in Pakistan to Saudis that left for Pakistan, or did she move there and for what purpose? How many Saudis actually move to Pakistan without nefarious intent?
2) During the visa process, would someone need to remove a niqab? Even then, wouldn't any intelligence on a female jihadi wearing a niqab basically have no info on what she looked like? I imagine women frequently involved in terrorist circles would be practically unidentifiable unless agents specifically had their fingerprints on hand.
1) if I remember correctly, Tashfeen is of Saudi ethnicity and from Pakistan with a Pakistani passport. My original impression of many Saudis in Afghanistan & Pakistan is that many would have gone over during either the 80s as fighters against the Soviets or in the 00s as fighters against the Americans. In either case, they often had a Taliban or Al Qaeda tie. I imagine even those who were not directly involved in the war would have gotten involved in their ex-pat community. Was Tashfeen born in Pakistan to Saudis that left for Pakistan, or did she move there and for what purpose? How many Saudis actually move to Pakistan without nefarious intent?
2) During the visa process, would someone need to remove a niqab? Even then, wouldn't any intelligence on a female jihadi wearing a niqab basically have no info on what she looked like? I imagine women frequently involved in terrorist circles would be practically unidentifiable unless agents specifically had their fingerprints on hand.
Being ordered directly by ISIS would officially make this a terrorist attack by the organization on US soil. This would have political ramifications, which is what most posters are interested in with this distinction. Being "radicalized" by ISIS isn't enough to change the status of this being "home grown/Domestic" terrorism.
Anton Sugar
Member
Because there's a difference between how you approach solving "a terrorist cell has infiltrated the US and is carrying out attacks" vs "American citizens sympathized with ISIS and carried out an attack."
I believe I read that Syed made $70,000/year.
what are you referring to that they wouldn't be able to buy with that kind of money? I'm not aware of what else they had besides some guns and homemade explosives.
Calamari41
41 > 38
Honestly, everyone is going to have to become more vigilant. As was posted earlier, one of his co-workers said that it seemed like he had married a terrorist due to his behavioral changes after he came back from Saudi Arabia. And one of the neighbors noticed a sudden influx of young men coming and going from the apartment at all hours of the night. Things that could be reported, even if on their face they wouldn't be a cause for direct action from the authorities.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
Oh, there's another solution. No one wants to do it, but it may come to it.
benjipwns
Banned
Please, elaborate.
valkillmore
Member
I'd love to know what this is you're speaking of.
bonesmccoy
Banned
The textbook response? Identify the main promulgators of the ideology, cripple them economically, and counter them militarily.
Basically what the West did, with mixed results until the 80s, when it battled communism.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
So you realize the chance of either happening is so comically low that it is barely worth talking about?
DragonSworne
Banned
Go to war against Saudi Arabia most likely.
benjipwns
Banned
Look, we just convert all billion Muslims to Christianity.
Veritigo_X
Member
I think most Christians would be cool with this. Probably not what he was talking about.
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