Hmm maybe so. The death of Sarah Lynn was just too much man.
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Bojack Horseman Season 4 |OT| Fuck Man, What Else Is There To Say
- Thread starter TheGreatDirector
- Start date
Hmm maybe so. The death of Sarah Lynn was just too much man.
Gentleman Jack
Member
It really was, watching him panic inside and out between episode 6 and when he opens up his coffee cabinet is watching it all crash down on his psyche and he literally can't take it.
This is true it definitely left a dark stain on his mind, as it should have. Yeah I think he was even watching her in his old tv show right before the coffee incident if I recall correctly.
blame space
Banned
does anyone know what time it is dot com
Gentleman Jack
Member
Someone remind me which episode has the 'slow children' gag. I can't stop thinking about it.
PixelatedBookake
Junior Member
I have mixed feelings about Bojack's mother. That's definitely the point and all, but I really (Episode 11 Spoilers)
don't blame Bojack for what he did. His parents were his blueprint and him getting rid of his mom in that home was a good move for him all things considered.
Just finishedthe season. I gotta proccess my overall feelings but I really liked it especially all the different things they did to frame(?) some of the episodes
Episode 2 and 11 probably rank among the best in the series cause of how they're told.
the flashback/present stuff in 2 and 11. PCs great great granddaughter's story, the internal narration.
Murder. She Wrote
Member
lowkey though the alliteration running gag gets me everytime
PixelatedBookake
Junior Member
Same here. It's a dumb joke but it never fails to make me chuckle.
Astral Dog
Member
Yeah This season wasn't about resolving Bojack again.it mostly focused on other characters and the ending was a clear setup for
Diane and Peanutbutter breakup
Velocity:Design:Comfort
Banned
Some questions cause I feel like I maybe missed some stuff?
How has Diane and Mr. PB's relationship degraded so much so fast after it seems kind of like it was on an upwards trajectory?
Did I miss a scene that had some closure to Princess Caroline and Mousethrew Broderick or something? He just disappears.
And Bojack tells his mom to picture her in that house eating ice cream and then does just leave her there right?
Did I miss a scene that had some closure to Princess Caroline and Mousethrew Broderick or something? He just disappears.
And Bojack tells his mom to picture her in that house eating ice cream and then does just leave her there right?
Simpsons was printing money for a network that badly needed it. Netflix and the creators will probably see eye to eye on ending it, and that's all decided contractually. They don't seem keen into pressuring talent into doing something they don't want to do. If anything, they want to free them up to do something new. Bojack will always be there to revisit on-demand. As a subscription service, they don't need to constantly pump out the same content the same way a network does. I don't see the show overstaying its welcome. If anything, it might end a bit too early.
Crazy to imagine how deep the pool of Netflix shows and movies will be a few years from now with the way they are spending money.
Mr. PB doesn't understand what makes Diane happy. She doesn't either. He is bad at relationships, she is figuring out one doesn't automatically make her happy like she thought it would.
She ended things with him.
I also never laughed at the PB for governor stuff. It was rather blunt and low-hanging fruit.
I also felt weird about it when they have Allison Brie doing Oriential blackface, but simultaneously like to posture about what is the moral high ground and throw strawmen up everywhere. Like what was up with that bit with "let's ban guns or make women feel safe" -> "ban guns" -> "I guess America hates women more than they like guns?". Was that supposed to be poignant social commentary? Was it supposed to be funny? Maybe this show "Hates Asian voice actors more than they care about social equality?" Like they want the credit for portraying a character of asian descent but who gives a shit about actually creating roles for minorities?
The only thing that impressed me about this season was how they gave a much clearer portrayal of what the characters are going through. Seeing how BoJack
deals with his internal struggle, his constant voice belittling him, and it's origins with his mother and his mother's family.
portraying what it might be like with Alzheimers or dementia.
1.
it was never super-great to begin with. diane's too smart for mr. peanutbutter and mr. peanutbutter is too optimistic and carefree for diane. the way i see their relationship, mr. peanutbutter seems to be someone diane likes having around because he likes to like things and likes it when he's liked, which makes it easy for her because it's low-conflict. mr. peanutbutter likes diane because he latches onto things and people he likes.
2
princess caroline broke up with ralph in episode 9. same episode as her miscarriage and when she fired judah.
3.
yep. he follows through on locking her away from the world so she wouldn't damage another person, but he doesn't follow through on telling her off like he thought he would once she recognized him.
my question is
how did a demented old woman poison hollyhock? i thought it was beatrice asking for the coffee, and wouldn't someone like the nurse or bojack need to buy it?
Velocity:Design:Comfort
Banned
Yeah,
but I don't know how much I find P.C. just completely cutting out Stilton to be realistic. But I guess the point is that these characters do stuff that is destructive and irrational.
About Diane, definitely. According to the wikipedia she was with Mr. PB for like 10 years at this point and I guess the marriage makes things worse and not better.
About Diane, definitely. According to the wikipedia she was with Mr. PB for like 10 years at this point and I guess the marriage makes things worse and not better.
I agree insofar as I agree "it's pretty dissonant for such a political and strongly left-leaning show to cast a white woman as a Vietnamese character" and "that guns/women storyline was kind of nonsense and dumb", but I also think it's a little too much to act like "the show cast a white woman as an Asian character therefore it can never try to take moral positions or act like it has any kind of high ground on anything ever."
yeah but how did beatrice get them? she's got dementia and hollyhock talks about being secretly poisoned so it was definitely beatrice that did it
Beatrice has body image issues from a childhood of being fat shamed by her dad, even though she wasn't fat. It was probably just get own supply of Chub B Gone she had when she was still at the nursing home to keep her weight down.
Gentleman Jack
Member
Things Diane endured this season:
Watching her husband destroy California's budget
watching her husband's 2 ex-wives come in and ruin her personal space
Watching her husband turn into the type of politician and man she's always hated, the empty smile willing to back anything and not compromise on anything from fracking to a ski race he wasn't qualified to run to gun control because he's more suggestible by said ex-wife than his now-actual-wife, causing a series of dismissals of her concerns of the damage it was doing to their household.
Having that don't-back-down attidude result in at least one murder in her house as well as its total destruction.
not having anybody to talk to because her husband is constantly walking away from her stress and objections to his gubernatorial run. Part of this is on her for being in denial about the value of "being supportive" for no good reason. Things are clearly bad when she has to reach out to Bojack's answering machine 50 times because she doesn't feel like she has any friends in her life, including the man she married.
Having her sex life turn into angry bouts of angry fight/yell/angry fight/yell without addressing the underlying problems in their respect for each other
It's pretty damn clear that Diane was unhappy with the bigger-picture parts of her life, and the brief moments of romance weren't making up for Mr. PB's inability to connect with her emotionally. This has actually been happening since season 1 when he first proposed to her and turned it into a reality show taping.
Yeah it was good. Can't even remember her name anymore but I was watching with the subtitles and rewatched some of those scenes a lot to catch what was being said. Was great
EDIT:
Just had another thought that "FHBA" is such a stupid and hilarious concept
Sibersk Esto
Banned
For some reason the lemons and sugar all over the inside of Bojack's fridge in episode 11 is one of my favorite little details.
MugiwaraCole
Member
The episode where we hear Bojack's self-destructive thoughts, the deterioration of Diane and PB's marriage, and the moment in Beatrice's imagination where she and her husband are fighting while young Bojack sits awkwardly on the couch were extremely fucking triggering, holy shit.
I don't blame you, everybody's relationship is different. I can imagine it would be very hard for me if
my mom or dad were as abusive as Bojack's was to her
Worst season easily IMO, specially after how strong the last one was. Not that is bad, mind you, but the writing just wasn't that good, specially with some stuff dragging for too long without any pay off (the clowdentist venture comes to mind).
But, hell. Episode 6 hit me more than anything else in the show, and I still can't deal with it, and 11 hits pretty hard if you ever took care of someone with Alzheimer's.
But, hell. Episode 6 hit me more than anything else in the show, and I still can't deal with it, and 11 hits pretty hard if you ever took care of someone with Alzheimer's.
That was my primary criticism as well. There are only 12 episodes in a season and an inordinate amount of time was spent on side characters and their storylines. I'm talking specifically about the Peanutbutter bits and his run for governor as well as the Princess Caroline scenes.
The episode with Jessica Biel highlighted my problems with the season. Bojack was shunted into a side room while Caroline had her adventure and Peanutbutter's political crap just went on and on.
enoki
Member
That entire flashback was powerful and difficult to watch. It was a great dive into Beatrice's psyche, and there was a lot of really great symbolism in the background. I haven't felt such a pit in my stomach watching animation since Moral Orel.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
It felt like most of the B plots just didn't go anywhere, or at the very least weren't interesting enough to spend so much time on them. All the Bojack and Princess Caroline stuff was aces but man, Diane and Mr Peanutbutter had so much superfluous stuff around it.
And Todd, jesus. He feels like an obligation at this point.
And Todd, jesus. He feels like an obligation at this point.
i guess that makes sense if she already had it.
and man, joseph sugarman is the show's original monster. the way he's presented is that he isn't damaged himself, but his privilege gives him a toxic viewpoint that poisons everything in his family. matthew broderick was amazing - i actually didn't know it was him.
Belgian Dude
Member
Just saw someone mention that on the ending scene
Bojack's ringtone wasn't the Horsin' Around theme anymore. Was the Season Finale the first time that was a thing or was that some subtle growth I just completely missed?
Fancyarcher
Member
Watching Bojack season 4. I'm on episode eight right now, and it's great. I really liked the underground episode, and I'm also really digging the Mr. Peanutbutter running for office subplot too.
Yup, I was watching the show the other day, and they brought her up, and I realized just how much her demise affected my viewing of the show. Damn!
Yup, I was watching the show the other day, and they brought her up, and I realized just how much her demise affected my viewing of the show. Damn!
RespectThySole
Member
Finally done with the season. Stray takes:
Todd untethered from Bojack is the funniest he has ever been in the entire series. He's really the tonic the show needs to not be overbearing with the frequent personal tragedies of the rest of the cast.
I fully expected the season to end with Beatrice dying. What I did not expect was for the sympathy for her upbringing to thematically tie together the season about the many ways people have at their disposal to hurt and permanently scar each other, from her disintegrating family to the crushing disappointment of what happens when she tries to do better than a broken home only to land in one of her own. Her desperate plea to Beatrice just ended me.
I'm not into Princess Carolyn's arc this season. I saw the markers for her relationship getting rocky, but thepayoff and her turning into a mini-Bojack for a while was a bit too straightforward. I expected more swerves, particularly from Judah or Rabbitowitz or Stilton. I'm not sure I really enjoyed the relatively conventional payoff to Carolyn's fall into despair and I hope the next season makes more with her life of clinging on while clawing back up from every downturn.miscarriage
I'm very relieved that the Peanutbutter/Diane dynamic got to play out with zero interference from Bojack this season, it makes the hits more raw and less the result of misunderstanding. Diane's pain is more real when it has more to do with how much she finally accepts her understanding of her situation than being misled into worse behavior by a bad influence. When Mr. Peanutbutter finally speaks his mind instead of being an aloof catchphrase, the realest of shit goes down.
I thought episode 6 is where I'd get my soul torn out because things felt like they were winding down from there, but 11&12 just ripped me apart. Instead of living in Bojack's mind for 24 minutes we live inside Beatrice, and how her story connects to Hollyhock's gives that final linegot me allI've never had a brother
Season 3 felt like a lot of catharsis, between Todd finally shedding the iron weight of Bojack's sins on his life and the restaurant fight between Princess Carolyn and Bojack. Season 4 was far more introspective, as the cast assesses their own personal damage and tries to answer where happiness is actually going to come from, even if there's no direct replies for most of them. Todd's message is a truly affirmative one, even if it's as hilarious as everyone in a restaurant wearing his clothes or as true to life as him connecting with and learning about his sexuality. I don't feel like I'm being conned into cheering for him, Forrest Gump style. I genuinely want his character to develop into the one example of carefree joy this show has.
That line in episode 12 got me too.
Casting someone white as Diane bothered me a lot when I first picked up this show, almost made me drop it altogether because it just felt wrong. It still does, to a much lesser extent, three seasons later so it's a bit of a black spot on the show - I'm sure everyone on the team feels the same way too. With that said, they've demonstrated through casting-choices in consequent seasons that they do care and are trying to do better so it's not such a big deal for me anymore, certainly not enough to undermine whatever political or social commentary they want to make. If they were to recast her today, I have no doubt they'd do it right.
Finished the season. 4=3>2>1
Episode 11 destroyed me, it did not hit as hard as season 3's ep11, but still so fucked up. Then episode 12 gave me some hope, made me feel better. I mean, even Bojack is becoming a better person/horse.
This season doesn't put all the focus on Bojack, and I welcome it. I like other characters, especially Todd and PC, and their plot in this season is awesome. I don't really care about Mr.PB and Diane's marriage tho...
Episode 2, 7,9,11 are my favourite.
Episode 11 destroyed me, it did not hit as hard as season 3's ep11, but still so fucked up. Then episode 12 gave me some hope, made me feel better. I mean, even Bojack is becoming a better person/horse.
This season doesn't put all the focus on Bojack, and I welcome it. I like other characters, especially Todd and PC, and their plot in this season is awesome. I don't really care about Mr.PB and Diane's marriage tho...
Episode 2, 7,9,11 are my favourite.
Berserker976
Member
I disagree with this. Casting voice roles has a long history of racial switcheroos, it's not anything-"face", it's just people being cast for their voices and/or fame. There are Asians in Bojack cast as white people, cast as Asians, cast as animals. I don't think this is anything new, or harmful.
That said, I'm also all for more representation in voice actor roles, diversity makes for a stronger industry. I think it would have been great if they had gotten someone of Vietnamese descent to voice Diane, but it's not some "black mark" on the show that they didn't. And to assert that somehow this disables them from making any sort of social or moral commentary is ridiculous.
PixelatedBookake
Junior Member
I was surprised I could still like Bojack after last season but he's hard to hate
Chiaroscuro
Member
I don't know. I mean, he really looked a poisoned monster (Matthew Brodick did him?), but I am sure if we get another memory lane trip down to his childhood we may see different things. That is one of the points of the show for me: we all are bond to our fathers sins, but to grow up we have to make free of them. It is really hard, but it is kind of an infinite chain. Bojack did not realize it yet, as he left his mother again.
Oh man now his line of "Man those fish do not want to get into those cans" makes a whole lot more sense.
Just finished the S4EP12, and I gotta say this is probably my favorite season so far in the show. I was worrying it might stagnate a little by now but for me it only got better.
Favorite episode was 6, with 11 and 9 being very strong runner-ups.
Lots of real moments, lots of sad moments, but man the humor on point and did again a good job to offset it.
PS: That final scene
, I admit.
Favorite episode was 6, with 11 and 9 being very strong runner-ups.
Lots of real moments, lots of sad moments, but man the humor on point and did again a good job to offset it.
PS: That final scene
did make me shed some happy tears
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