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Bojack Horseman Season 3 |OT| Everyday It Gets a Little Easier
- Thread starter TheGreatDirector
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Started the show last weekend or so and didn't care for it too much but stuck it out based on people's recommendations. About halfway into season 2 and I'm more invested in this show than I ought to be. I honestly don't think I laughed out loud throughout the entire first season but season 2 has been funnier to me. It's good stuff.
Heckler456
Banned
There is just no fucking way that they'll redeem his character though. Right? At this point, with what happened to Sarah Lynn... He just seems so irredeemable to the point where I think actually giving this character anything but a tragic ending would seem contrived to me. Maybe that's just me, though.
Oh fuck...
What if they have him jumping off a bridge like Secretariat...?
That scene fucking killed me in season 1
That small speck falling and disappearing while the radio host quips about an idiot blocking traffic with his abandoned car.
That scene fucking killed me in season 1
That small speck falling and disappearing while the radio host quips about an idiot blocking traffic with his abandoned car.It was funny to see how often they used "What are you doing here?" line in Bojack's life which was used at Secretariat's lowest points.
Totally A afaik. Confused just because isn't common.
My prediction for season four based on a couple of things that stood out to me in season 3:
1) "People don't change because they want to change. People change because they have to change."
2) Sarah Lynn dying.
3) Bojack probably having a long-lost daughter who wants to contact him.
4) Raphael Bob-Waksberg saying in interviews that this season is the close of this "chapter" of Bojack and they want to take his character somewhere new.
My guess is that next season will be about Bojack realizing he can't keep doing this, that he's on the same doomed path of self-destruction that Sarah Lynn was, and that he has to change. They could also use his daughter wanting to know him as a driver of change as well - say she discovers that her father is an emotionally-abusive alcoholic who drives all his friends away, and Bojack (probably after first telling her to fuck off, because that's how Bojack works, making mistakes and only regretting them later) realizes he wants to be a better father figure to her. That's not to say I think the next season will be "yay Bojack's a good person now," just that he will start taking the first baby steps towards escaping his downward spiral.
2) Sarah Lynn dying.
3) Bojack probably having a long-lost daughter who wants to contact him.
4) Raphael Bob-Waksberg saying in interviews that this season is the close of this "chapter" of Bojack and they want to take his character somewhere new.
My guess is that next season will be about Bojack realizing he can't keep doing this, that he's on the same doomed path of self-destruction that Sarah Lynn was, and that he has to change. They could also use his daughter wanting to know him as a driver of change as well - say she discovers that her father is an emotionally-abusive alcoholic who drives all his friends away, and Bojack (probably after first telling her to fuck off, because that's how Bojack works, making mistakes and only regretting them later) realizes he wants to be a better father figure to her. That's not to say I think the next season will be "yay Bojack's a good person now," just that he will start taking the first baby steps towards escaping his downward spiral.
Episode 10
Did anybody else flash back on to this scene in their head when Todd was finally laying into Bojack?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YVrxFmheSc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YVrxFmheSc
NealMcCauley
Member
One of my more talkative co workers was freaking out about ep4's
. She had no idea how to process it.
almost total lack of dialogue
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
get that fetus
kill dat fetus
get that fetus
kill dat fetus
kill dat fetus
get that fetus
kill dat fetus
Are you really that hard up for a scene in which the lead kills himself? How exactly would that be satisfying?
Because I've now seen 3 seasons of him being a depressed mess that ruins everything around him, the only logical end point for him is to kill himself. I like this show because it's depressing and a bummer, so give me more depressing shit.
Zoidberg Jesus
Member
The abortion episode caught me off guard, and I laughed a bit more than I feel comfortable talking about. "Blapp blapp pew pew!" I sort of saw Sarah Lynn's death coming, but it was still hard to watch. Todd's coming out really surprised me, but looking back it makes more sense.
At the end, When Bojack started speeding up, I was saying "what the hell" out loud. I expected something like that would happen eventually, but even though it's just a show, I was getting legitimately upset by the idea of Bojack committing suicide. I'm not sure if I enjoyed the previous seasons more or less than 3, but I love the show and I'm looking forward to what happens next.
At the end, When Bojack started speeding up, I was saying "what the hell" out loud. I expected something like that would happen eventually, but even though it's just a show, I was getting legitimately upset by the idea of Bojack committing suicide. I'm not sure if I enjoyed the previous seasons more or less than 3, but I love the show and I'm looking forward to what happens next.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
toythatkills
Member
That's a somewhat disheartening take on life in general.
I don't get why so many people try to extrapolate someone's viewpoint of life from an opinion about a TV show.
Do you think I'd want Bojack to kill himself if this was real life? Do you think I'd want Khaleesi to travel to another country and murder everyone so she could take over if this was real life?
toythatkills
Member
I'm not saying you'd want BoJack to do that, but you see it as "the only logical option." That translates to real life.
(Pro-tip though, depression isn't logical.)
From a story point perspective...
(Pro-tip though, again, I'm not talking about real life people.)
I wonder if Bojack is a lot of writers reflecting on what Hollywood is, or just simply people reflecting on the worst stories they have heard from Hollywoo.
It is so damn dark when it gets super dark.
So the show I would most compare it to is Louie. And that show is not funny, at least the past seasons. It is simply dark.
Bojack manages to be funny, but when it goes dark it goes dark.
It really is an amazing show. But man it kills you when it tries to. I wonder if the writers are relating their own experiences in the writing.
It is so damn dark when it gets super dark.
So the show I would most compare it to is Louie. And that show is not funny, at least the past seasons. It is simply dark.
Bojack manages to be funny, but when it goes dark it goes dark.
It really is an amazing show. But man it kills you when it tries to. I wonder if the writers are relating their own experiences in the writing.
toythatkills
Member
But you are though, whether you mean to or not. If you literally can't see any option for someone in BoJack's position other than to kill themselves, why would your opinion differ if you weren't talking about a character on a show?
And if your opinion does differ when talking about someone in real life, then clearly you can see another option for BoJack too.
How is saying that it's a logical conclusion to his character saying it's the ONLY option? Let me ask you this, in the episode when he closed his eyes and was about to kill himself, did you think to yourself, "why is he doing this? It doesn't make any sense"? No, you understood why he would do that in that moment, it was a logical thing for someone like Bojack to do in that moment.
Sarah Lynn dying was a logical conclusion to her story arc but just because it was logical didn't mean it was the ONLY option for her. She could have not gotten off the wagon but she didn't and because she did, it was only logical that she'd OD after taking every possible drug for weeks straight.
If Bojack can redeem himself and actually change who he is, then he has more options to where his character can go, but if he continues down the road he has been on for 3 seasons, then it's completely logical for him to kill himself and it'd make for great television as well.
And I must stress, just because the way you think about characters and real people doesn't differ, doesn't mean others don't. I root for anything that gives as better television, I don't care if it's the good or bad guy, I just want more drama. I'm sure I don't have to explain how this isn't something I want in real life.
Sarah Lynn dying was a logical conclusion to her story arc but just because it was logical didn't mean it was the ONLY option for her. She could have not gotten off the wagon but she didn't and because she did, it was only logical that she'd OD after taking every possible drug for weeks straight.
If Bojack can redeem himself and actually change who he is, then he has more options to where his character can go, but if he continues down the road he has been on for 3 seasons, then it's completely logical for him to kill himself and it'd make for great television as well.
And I must stress, just because the way you think about characters and real people doesn't differ, doesn't mean others don't. I root for anything that gives as better television, I don't care if it's the good or bad guy, I just want more drama. I'm sure I don't have to explain how this isn't something I want in real life.
toythatkills
Member
You said it was the only option, not me. Well, "only logical conclusion," anyway, same thing.
I guess we'll just agree to disagree on this'un.
The things I said right before that are important to what you quoted there. If he continues to be who he is, then from a story telling point of view, he will end up killing himself.
He almost did it this season until he saw the herd, you're telling me that another season of him fucking up and destroying even more of his relationships won't make him want to kill himself even more?
If he ended up taking that route, it would be more impactful if he did turn things around and improved on how he is as a person but only to end up just as alone because he chased away everything with actual importance in his life. Only to take a spiraling crash back to who he believes is truly himself and finally takes his own life.
Otherwise this type of ending its just all on him, his crappy choices, and it feels like it absolves the people who cared about him from any fault. If he did truly change but then was completely and utterly rejected... well, it kinda speaks on how we as a society treat those in need of help and due to our own lack of action we end up causing more harm to them.
To me, that is a way more depressing ending.
They'd be a pretty good twist, too.
Like I said earlier in this thread, this show's comedy is decent but I find this show to be at it's best when it's serious and all the serious moments in this show come from Bojack's depression and seeing how he is able to fuck over people he cares about.
The sadder this show is, the better it becomes.
Season 3 impression immediately after finishing ep 12:
I kinda felt this season was redundant. The other seasons led up to satisfying conclusions, but this season climaxed at ep 10. The following episodes had the characters acting a little caricatured and rehashy. It felt like the two remaining episodes werent enough cumulative screen time to do anything interesting.
Season one had the whole switching to a psychological study thing, season 2 had bojack doing far more dubious shit than we've seen before, but in this season we just seemed to tread water. They made a point out of that kind of - but the fact that they're aware of it doesnt make it any more entertaining.
When episode 11 rolled around I was just like, "what? Theyre just pulling the drug-bender thing again"? I guess the point was that Bojack never learns but its getting stale to watch, and theres only so far this show can go on with the whole "characters saying exactly how they feel, dead-pan, as a joke" thing - it's a crutch the show seems to have when the character arcs lose direction, and it's not very good at servicing the dark drama the show is going for.
There are a few loose ends that were just unsatisfying in the way they played out, too - like the black agent lady Bojack was seeing that just ended with no remorse or real emotional reaction - they played it as a joke even with Bojack going to see her on his bender.
Sarah-Lynn's death, too! There was nothing there and Bojack just suddenly is over his drug bender and wants to do a show? The direction at the end of this season just flails in my opinion and squanders the pretty decently watchable momentum that was building up for the majority of the season.
The thing with Kelsey the Secretariat director lady felt real pointless, too. I really want to see this show change in the next season. It sounds like it might based on what the director has said. If it doesn't, I can see myself losing interest. Luckily I dug the first two seasons a lot so I have faith in the show. We'll see how it goes.
I just think the whole "poor me" thing is pretty wrung out now, and if Bojack doesnt learn soon, his sympathetic-ness will wane. The indulgent side of Bojacks sadness is beginning to out-weigh his legitimate inability to comprehend his situation and that's not fun to watch. Art needs to have an ebb and flow. Bojacks straight ebbin'
Looking at the whole season though it was watchable enough cuz I'm worn into the characters and like them. It's pretty good - I just think the ending makes the whole thing feel like there was no point to it. Episode 4 rules and I love how the entire soundtrack continues into the credits. Definitely some cool stuff happening this season.
Season one had the whole switching to a psychological study thing, season 2 had bojack doing far more dubious shit than we've seen before, but in this season we just seemed to tread water. They made a point out of that kind of - but the fact that they're aware of it doesnt make it any more entertaining.
When episode 11 rolled around I was just like, "what? Theyre just pulling the drug-bender thing again"? I guess the point was that Bojack never learns but its getting stale to watch, and theres only so far this show can go on with the whole "characters saying exactly how they feel, dead-pan, as a joke" thing - it's a crutch the show seems to have when the character arcs lose direction, and it's not very good at servicing the dark drama the show is going for.
There are a few loose ends that were just unsatisfying in the way they played out, too - like the black agent lady Bojack was seeing that just ended with no remorse or real emotional reaction - they played it as a joke even with Bojack going to see her on his bender.
Sarah-Lynn's death, too! There was nothing there and Bojack just suddenly is over his drug bender and wants to do a show? The direction at the end of this season just flails in my opinion and squanders the pretty decently watchable momentum that was building up for the majority of the season.
The thing with Kelsey the Secretariat director lady felt real pointless, too. I really want to see this show change in the next season. It sounds like it might based on what the director has said. If it doesn't, I can see myself losing interest. Luckily I dug the first two seasons a lot so I have faith in the show. We'll see how it goes.
I just think the whole "poor me" thing is pretty wrung out now, and if Bojack doesnt learn soon, his sympathetic-ness will wane. The indulgent side of Bojacks sadness is beginning to out-weigh his legitimate inability to comprehend his situation and that's not fun to watch. Art needs to have an ebb and flow. Bojacks straight ebbin'
Looking at the whole season though it was watchable enough cuz I'm worn into the characters and like them. It's pretty good - I just think the ending makes the whole thing feel like there was no point to it. Episode 4 rules and I love how the entire soundtrack continues into the credits. Definitely some cool stuff happening this season.
Belgian Dude
Member
Just finished the season and...wow.. I don't know whether I liked this Season more than 2, but there's two things this season did incredibly well that immediately jumped into my mind.
Can't wait for Season 4, the only thing I didn't like about the finale was how
1. How the intro changed. Seeing every one of Bojack's friends disappear one by one was a punch in the gut, episode by episode.
2. The "fuck". Not only this was the first usage from one of the main characters, but it was also the first one that talked about Bojack as a whole. Not only his need for closure, not only his mistakes, not specific situations, but him, as a whole, and that hit fucking hard.
2. The "fuck". Not only this was the first usage from one of the main characters, but it was also the first one that talked about Bojack as a whole. Not only his need for closure, not only his mistakes, not specific situations, but him, as a whole, and that hit fucking hard.
I was legitimately upset by that scene but I was probably more legitimately upset in Episode 10. After arguing with Diane, he drives the Tesla back into the pool, momentarily looks at the bubbles, and realizes which way is up. But instead of swimming up, like Ana did... he just gives in. It was so much to soak in at once but that scene, particularly since it contrasted with him stumbling into the pool in the window, was downright one of the strongest 20 or so seconds of the show.
Can't wait for Season 4, the only thing I didn't like about the finale was how
they wrote off Todd's money. While Todd always did the things he did with no rhyme or reason (and no consideration for budget) not only it seemed like it could add an interesting dynamic, but it's the kind of bait-and-switch that really puts me off. The fact that it was used as a meta joke doesn't help either.
E: (if it turns out he did it on purpose and/or Season 4 brings Emily's share into focus, then my worries are gone, haha
E: (if it turns out he did it on purpose and/or Season 4 brings Emily's share into focus, then my worries are gone, haha
aygomyownroad
Member
Beautiful series. The last few endings were brutal to watch in typical Bojack style.
I hope we get a new series as there is a lot to answer for.
I think I felt worse for the breakup between Bojack and
than any other character.
Damn it I want a happy ending!
I hope we get a new series as there is a lot to answer for.
I think I felt worse for the breakup between Bojack and
princess Carolyn
Damn it I want a happy ending!
OniBarubary
Banned
Depends on what you mean. As far as on GAF, I dunno, I didn't post in OT 1 and 2.
As far as critically or through reviews, no, it's getting about the same rave reviews and coverage.
As far as through discussion online, if it seems like it, there could be a number of reasons for this.
1. When season 2 hit the impression from Season 1 was still good but not great due to it only finding it's feet in the 2nd half. So when 2 hit and people were blown away it made a much larger impacy. A great season following a great season gets less reaction then a great one following an okay or good one.
2. This season as a whole has stand-out episodes but it is much more focused on an emotional quagmire and sustaining the general theme and story across the entire season. As a result it has less "amazing" episodes or quotables or awesome scenes (not to say it doesn't have those cause it sure as fuck does) and more consistency and strength when taken as an entire season and storyline.
3. It's possible that a lot of people feel it's not as good. I don't think so, but I could see people thinking that Season 2 pretty much couldn't be topped as far as fucked up moments go. I thought the comedy was actually the best it's been this season so that made it stronger to me.
4. I dunno. A blurbity bloo.
As far as critically or through reviews, no, it's getting about the same rave reviews and coverage.
As far as through discussion online, if it seems like it, there could be a number of reasons for this.
1. When season 2 hit the impression from Season 1 was still good but not great due to it only finding it's feet in the 2nd half. So when 2 hit and people were blown away it made a much larger impacy. A great season following a great season gets less reaction then a great one following an okay or good one.
2. This season as a whole has stand-out episodes but it is much more focused on an emotional quagmire and sustaining the general theme and story across the entire season. As a result it has less "amazing" episodes or quotables or awesome scenes (not to say it doesn't have those cause it sure as fuck does) and more consistency and strength when taken as an entire season and storyline.
3. It's possible that a lot of people feel it's not as good. I don't think so, but I could see people thinking that Season 2 pretty much couldn't be topped as far as fucked up moments go. I thought the comedy was actually the best it's been this season so that made it stronger to me.
4. I dunno. A blurbity bloo.
toythatkills
Member
I've said this before but I think the problem with this season is that it did the same thing Season One did - it starts off as one thing, not really knowing what it is, and then takes a long time to actually get to the point of the series, or the feel of the series, rather. You could lose so much of the first half of this season without really losing much of BoJack's demise, as it were. It's all quite throwaway, especially stuff like episode four which people are saying is amazing but it's pretty crap really, looking back. It's just "different" and "unique" which is nice and everything but that doesn't automatically make it incredible. I don't feel like I got anything out of that episode whatsoever as a viewer, in the context of the season.
Season Two worked so well because it was in your face from the very start, it knew what it was and where it was going and it hit you immediately. The last few minutes of the first episode of that series are probably the most brutal in the whole of this show.
Season Two worked so well because it was in your face from the very start, it knew what it was and where it was going and it hit you immediately. The last few minutes of the first episode of that series are probably the most brutal in the whole of this show.
OniBarubary
Banned
Uh...I'd argue, pretty strongly, that Season 3 knows exactly what it's doing from the start. Season 3 is the most consistent season in tone and intent of them all.
Gnome Scat
Member
Wow, didn't think they'd be able to top the last season but they did. Maybe I'll give season 2 a rematch just to make sure. Anyways, it'll be interesting to see the show take a new direction next season.
Daria Morgendorffer
Member
I actually thought Season 3 was the most coherent seaosn by far, everything felt right and like the writers had the perfect idea of what to do
Baron von Loathsome
Member
The new season was great, not much to complain about.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
You have a very weird idea of "Great Television".
A dude killing himself after three - now four - seasons of struggling with depression is not great television. That's just depressing as fuck. Suicide is not noble. Jesus.
Anyhow. We're not going to come to any sort of passive agreement to disagree on this, so I'll just drop it.
You didn't have to make this post to drop it, you know.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Nope, that was my fault.
Langdon Alger
Banned
Bojack won't be happy no matter what he accomplishes. He sabotages himself. He keeps abusing everyone around him. It's all the same stuff from season 1 recycled over and over again, but it doesn't have any impact anymore. The whole show just sounds like some writer making bad self-analysis at this point. It's just masturbation. The characters just tell you their problems. Show, don't tell? It doesn't work as a drama or a comedy anymore. It's just...completely uninteresting. I should have bailed after the first season.
Randy Monk
Member
I read this in Bojacks voice and I totally agree that you should have bailed after the first season. Totally.
One comedy thing that I absolutely love for some reason and that Bojack does,is to always use a full title for something or someone when talking about it/them.
Like "Character Actress Margot Martindale" or "Hollywoo's Stars and Celebrities: What do they know? Do they know things? Let's find out!" every single time.
It just gets me.
It's like "The wee baby Sheamus" in Archer.
Like "Character Actress Margot Martindale" or "Hollywoo's Stars and Celebrities: What do they know? Do they know things? Let's find out!" every single time.
It just gets me.
It's like "The wee baby Sheamus" in Archer.
toythatkills
Member
What did he accomplish in this season? Everything went wrong and it was somewhat out of his control. PC screwed up a chance for him to make something of his career due to her own rivalries/ambitions, and he didn't get nominated not because of anything he did or didn't do, it just happened.
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