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[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

What if he lied?

We'll know soon enough (assuming it's not to a place whose location died with him).

 

[Funky Papa]

What if he lied?

Happy day?

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Happy day?

Slightly less depressing day.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Islam4UK were banned and they operate under a few other names.

Essentially, we ought to just shoot Anjem Choudhary. Twice.

Fine by me.

 

[Xcellere]

lets all be in agreement, we will report anyone who deals with these files to the police, no matter who they are.
If that does not help we will beat the shit out of them, no matter who they are.

Images of the Beslan massacre were all over gore forums in 2007, pictures of dead children and all. If any good can come of the general public seeing the purported videos, it would be increased scrutiny on the radical Islamic groups in Europe. Seeing the visceral reality of this event would be much more of an incentive to increase scrutiny than just reading about it.

 

[Pacbois]

Lemonde.fr has given details about the assault, sorry for the approximative translation.

A 11h10, les hommes du Raid pénètrent dans l'appartement par la porte et les fenêtres. Ils lancent trois grenades pour faire réagir Mohamed Merah et progressent pas à pas.

@11:10, Raid enters his appartement by the door and windows. They throws 3 grenades trying to get a reaction of Merah while moving slowly.

A 11h30, ils débusquent Merah à l'aide d'une caméra, introduite dans la salle de bain où il s'était replié et restait silencieux depuis la veille. Merah, équipé d'un gilet pare-balles, sort de la salle de bains et ouvre le feu "avec une extrême violence", selon Claude Guéant. Il arrose d'une "trentaine de coups de feu" les policiers en progression, selon le procureur Molins.

@11:30, they find Merah with a camera, put inside the bathoom where Merah was hinding silently since yesterday. Merah, wearing a bulletproof vest, got out of the bathroom and starts shooting violently, according to Claude Guéant. He's spraying the policemen with "around 30 shots", according to the prosecuter.

La riposte du Raid est longue et massive: quelque 300 cartouches sont tirées au total pendant la fusillade, qui a duré cinq minutes. Un policier est blessé au pied.

Raid's retort was long and massive : around 300 rounds were shot during the 5 minute fight. A policeman was shot in the foot.

Peu après 11 h 30, Merah fonce sur les policiers à travers l'appartement. Il saute par la fenêtre en continuant à tirer avec un Colt 45. Il est retrouvé mort au sol, dehors, "touché par des snipers" positionnés au dehors. Selon le procureur de Paris, il a été atteint d'une balle dans la tête. La marque d'un tir "pour tuer", à la différence des tirs visant à "neutraliser", dans le genou par exemple.

Shortly after 11:30, Merah is running toward the policeman across the appartment. He's jumping out the window while shooting with a Colt 45. He's found dead by the ground, outiside, "hit by snipers'. According to the prosecutor, he was it in the head. This was a "killshot" rather than a "neutralizing" one, like in the knee.

 

[MasLegio]

Images of the Beslan massacre were all over gore forums in 2007, pictures of dead children and all. If any good can come of the general public seeing the purported videos, it would be increased scrutiny on the radical Islamic groups in Europe.

hopefully there will be a policy change in regards to hate groups regardless of their politics or religious views. They need to be on a more tight surveillance.
Also groups targeting indidivuals of their own faith (ia stinky Wahabists) should be put under more pressure so we can defend the civil rights we have in Europe, individual rights should always precede religious rights.

 

[coldfoot]

I saw this image on facebook, I think it's protesting how Brevik and this guy are being compared with some sort of discrimination against Muslims I think, but I don't know french...

 

[Funky Papa]

I saw this image on facebook, I think it's protesting how Brevik and this guy are being compared with some sort of discrimination against Muslims I think, but I don't know french...

Way to look too much into it. French news taking more coverage on a French newspaper is not something weird.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Way to look too much into it. French news taking more coverage on a French newspaper is not something weird.

Yeah, that's kind of the way it works in most places. I remember a joke in the movie The Paper on how foreign coverage varied if any American's died and a story getting canned because supposed victims didn't turn out to be from Long Island.

 

[Kurtofan]

I saw this image on facebook, I think it's protesting how Brevik and this guy are being compared with some sort of discrimination against Muslims I think, but I don't know french...

There's the terrorism headline for Breivik too.

 

[Manager]

The chief of Police negotiations in Sweden is very critical towards how the French police acted, saying they used an outdated technique. He says what Sweden use, developed by FBI and Scotland Yard, is better and that the old technique can make the gunman doing irrational actions.

http://translate.google.com/transla...-forhandlaren-kritisk-till-polisens-agerande/

- The tactic is not something I recognize from our operations. I would not advise an operation manager in Sweden to do what they did. I would personally say it's a bad tactic. The purpose of the hearing is to build confidence and it does not turn off the power. The police in France did could stop the person ends up in a psychosis and is very irrational, says Paul Hansson.

- My advice would be to give him opportunities to make sound, rational decision. Give him to eat and drink, for example, says Paul Hansson.

Basically, he's critical towards how they turned off power and water instantly. Thoughts?

Of course we could never know if a different technique would give a different outcome, but it's not good if they still use old:ish techniques.

 

[Alx]

He's jumping out the window while shooting with a Colt 45. He's found dead by the ground, outside, "hit by snipers'. According to the prosecutor, he was hit in the head. This was a "killshot" rather than a "neutralizing" one, like in the knee.

Wow. Not my thing to comment positively on the death of a man, but sniping a running target in the head must be a difficult shot.

 

[ComputerMKII]

The chief of Police negotiations in Sweden is very critical towards how the French police acted, saying they used an outdated technique. He says what Sweden use, developed by FBI and Scotland Yard, is better and that the old technique can make the gunman doing irrational actions.

Basically, he's critical towards how they turned off power and water instantly. Thoughts?

Of course we could never know if a different technique would give a different outcome, but it's not good if they still use techniques.

How do you want to negociate with someone who says 'actually, guys, I'm not going to surrender, I will die fighting'?

RAID is like the national football team: 60 million potential spectators, all of whom having a definite opinion on their tactics.

 

[Manager]

How do you want to negociate with someone who says 'actually, guys, I'm not going to surrender, I will die fighting'?

Yet, they tried to negotiate with him (for 30 hours).

I read that the police set off explosions and sounds just to keep him awake as soon as possible, to wear him out. It's the direct opposite of the FBI tactic, where you make him comfortable with food and supplies.

Obviously I'm not expert (I can't tell from the pixels), and maybe the French acted by other means that the Swede can't understand.

 

[Forsete]

Sweden has not faced anything like this though. Perhaps the Norrmalmstorg robbery is the closest thing which happened in 1973.

That went on for 6 days. It ended with the police gassing the place and later storming it. One policeman was hurt after being shot in the hand and face.

Oh I just remembered the West German Embassy siege in 1975 "Lägg ut, lägg ut!".
And that didn't end well at all.
Baron von Mirbach - Hostage, murdered.
Hillegaart - Hostage, murdered.
Siegfried Hausner - Terrorist, died of wounds after an explosion.

 

[Kinyou]

Maybe it's good that he died. You know, this way some other nut wont get the idea of taking hostages to see him freed.

 

[ComputerMKII]

Prosecutor Francois Molins had the grim task of watching Mohammed Merah's recordings.
In one, he is seen holding a gun to a victim's head and saying: 'You killed my brothers, I kill you.'
It came as Jund al-Khilafah, an Al-Qaeda splinter group, claimed responsibility for Merah's crimes in an online statement.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...natic-Mohammed-Merah-suspected-killing-7.html

 

[squidyj]

Getting him alive stopped being an objective once the police started getting fired at. Merah was given a chance to surrender, he didn't take it.

Pretty stupid to think that he would, looking at his behaviour through the killings.

 

[Antakken]

Maybe it's good that he died. You know, this way some other nut wont get the idea of taking hostages to see him freed.

He is now a Shaheed, a martyr. That is also why they wanted him alive.

The way he died will motivate thousands of djihadists, not repulse them.

 

[Misfits]

Islam4UK were banned and they operate under a few other names.

Essentially, we ought to just shoot Anjem Choudhary. Twice.

I fully agree. A wretched and despicable excuse of a human being. I loathe the bastard. A cancer on the world. Iwish nothing but bad things for him. Fucker.

 

[Choke on the Magic]

He is now a Shaheed, a martyr. That is also why they wanted him alive.

The way he died will motivate thousands of djihadists, not repulse them.

Sad that dying while being apprehended for killing children can equate martyrdom for some people.

 

[kruis]

He is now a Shaheed, a martyr. That is also why they wanted him alive.

The way he died will motivate thousands of djihadists, not repulse them.

Really? Djihadists aspire to kill children? Innocent people?

 

[Skeyser]

Really? Djihadists aspire to kill children? Innocent people?

You think people killed in terrorism attacks are not innocents most of the time?

 

[kruis]

You think people killed in terrorism attacks are not innocents most of the time?

Of course. It's just sick to think there are people who'll feel inspired by such bloodshed.

 

[Captain Tuttle]

He is now a Shaheed, a martyr. That is also why they wanted him alive.

The way he died will motivate thousands of djihadists, not repulse them.

Yep. He'll be remembered as a hero to many.

Terrible.

 

[Choke on the Magic]

Really? Djihadists aspire to kill children? Innocent people?

Serious question?

 

[ComputerMKII]

French Muslims Whine About Toulouse Massacre “Backlash”

By Debbie Schlussel

Definition of “arrogance”: whenever Muslims are the perpetrators (which is usually), they are always the “victims.”

Muslims around the world are more alike than ignorant Americans would like to believe. Americans want to think that only Muslims in France–like Mohammed Merah–would massacre Jews, despite evidence that there are plenty of Nidal Malik Hassans and Faisal Shahzads in our midst on U.S. soil. But, in fact, Muslims around the world are exactly the same, regardless of the fiction of borders and different cultures. And they whine equally wherever they are, whenever they are the perpetrators of horrific crimes against humanity. While in America, there is HAMASCAIR, everywhere else in the world there are Muslim grievance theater stars just like ‘em. And, instead of mourning the victims of their fellow co-religionists, they are shrieking about some fictional backlash that sadly never happens. And so it goes today in France, where Muslims are NOT mourning the murdered Jews–three of whom were kids 8 and under. Instead, Muslims are asking us to drink their fine whine about “exploitation” of Muslims. It’s nauseating. And laughably predictable.

Check out today’s main headline in Le Monde, the major French newspaper (at which my cousin is a reporter):

Les musulmans redoutent que l’identité du tueur ne soit exploitée contre eux

Depuis mercredi, la plupart des représentants des institutions musulmanes tentent de décourager toute tentation “d’amalgame”.

I speak French, and here’s the translation:

The Muslims fear that the identity of the killer will be exploited against them

Since Wednesday, most representatives of Muslim institutions try to discourage any temptation to associate/mix (the killer with Islam).

Uh-huh, four people are dead because of Islam and its tenets of jihad, and they are worried only about other people “exploiting” the Muslim identity of the terrorist. Um, what other religion urged people to engage in jihad, to take the lives of others because they are infidels. Sorry, French Musulmans, but Islam was this guy’s identity. Islam is THE reason that Mohammed Merah killed several Frenchmen in cold blood. This ain’t guilt by association. It’s an association of the guilty. The 1.8 billion guilty who embrace this and cheer it on, who do absolutely nothing to stop it, who go along, who know this is a basic part of their religion. It ain’t Jews or Catholics or Hindus doing this stuff. It’s Muslims. Period.

The Muslim whining–rather than the far more appropriate contrition–after one of their many co-religionists murders many others is a standard in their playbook. And it’s arrogance. But we give them the green light to behave this way as we bend over every which way for this group of cultists who historically foment mass murder on Western soil (and everywhere else).

No words of sorrow–not even larmes de la crocodile [crocodile tears]–from these selfish bastards over the murders of Rabbi Yonatan Sandler, Gabriel Sandler, Aryeh Sandler, and Miriam Monsonego (though they’d be lying through their teeth if they expressed sorrow). They know that since they now dominate France, they no longer even have to put up an act.

http://www.debbieschlussel.com/48287/french-muslims-whine-about-toulouse-massacre-backlash/

Interesting point.

 

[Kinyou]

I remember O'Reilly talking about how it's wrong to call the Oslo guy a Christian.
It's just natural that you'd worry about what this might mean for you, it doesn't mean that you're just thinking about yourself and forgetting about the victims.
The message I'm getting here is that they are saying that they don't support this son of a bitch in any way.

 

[Antakken]

Yep. He'll be remembered as a hero to many.

Terrible.

Not a hero, a martyr. There's quite a difference between these 2 ideas for the Muslims.

Terrible yes, though i don't consider Merah as a hard true, dedicated, convinced mujahid. He was just a low life thug from a french small neighborhood, who has been taken care of by "so called" salafist while in jail....

 

[ComputerMKII]

Here's a fresh, two-part debate:

France shootings: Homegrown terrorism takes centre stage

Twice, the alleged shooter in Toulouse went to Afghanistan. François Picard’s panel examines what we know about 24-year old Mohammed Merah and asks whether he was “self-radicalized” as the state prosecutor claims or acting on behalf of Al-Qaeda.

Guests:

Elaine Cobbe, CBS news
Hall Gardner, International Politics Professor, American University of Paris
Sébastien Baer, journalist, France Info
Peter Neumann, Security Studies Professor, King's College
Alain Lamballe, Former Military Attaché to India and Pakistan
Georja Calvin-Smith, Journalist, France 24
Christopher Moore, journalist, France24

Part 1: http://www.france24.com/en/2012032-debate-part-1-shooting-terrorist-police-jewish-community
Part 2: http://www.france24.com/en/www.fran...-2-shooting-terrorist-police-jewish-community

 

[G.O.O.]

I'm amazed at the father of one of the victims, saying that the death of the murderer was a failure and offering condolences to his mother.

 

[marathonfool]

http://www.debbieschlussel.com/48287/french-muslims-whine-about-toulouse-massacre-backlash/

Interesting point.

Your attempts to smear an entire group of people is transparent, trite, and fairly uninteresting.

 

[squidyj]

I'm amazed at the father of one of the victims, saying that the death of the murderer was a failure and offering condolences to his mother.

He's a good man and an example to all. What happened to his family was a tragedy but I hope they have the strength to persevere.

Debbie Schlussel on the other hand. I'd never heard her name before but for me it will now forever be firmly associated with crazy bitch, right next to Ann Coulter.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Debbie Schlussel on the other hand. I'd never heard her name before but for me it will now forever be firmly associated with crazy bitch.

You have no idea.

 

[squidyj]

You have no idea.

I started doing google searches and I think that may have been a mistake


aaand... I read her comments on Utoya. I'm done.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

I started doing google searches and I think that may have been a mistake


aaand... I read her comments on Utoya. I'm done.

Told ya.

That Utoya shit was sickening.

 

[Misfits]

Maybe I missed it, but why does that Debbie woman say there are only 4 dead? Isn't the total 7 or do the others not count cause they were Arabian?

 

[ComputerMKII]

Your attempts to smear an entire group of people is transparent, trite, and fairly uninteresting.

Please don't pretend to know what's in my head. I don't speak or write in innuendos so there's no point in being condescending, for it will not offend me.

 

[squidyj]

Maybe I missed it, but why does that Debbie woman say there are only 4 dead? Isn't the total 7 or do the others not count cause they were Arabian?

I'm leaning towards the latter.

Please don't pretend to know what's in my head. I don't speak or write in innuendos so there's no point in being condescending, for it will not offend me.

When's our next teacher rape thread dude? haven't had one in a while, you slippin?

 

[bigboss370]

I saw this image on facebook, I think it's protesting how Brevik and this guy are being compared with some sort of discrimination against Muslims I think, but I don't know french...

yeah i saw this on facebook too, i think the point is that one guy killed way more people and was labeled a psycho murderer while the other guy killed significantly less people but was labeled by his religion association.

 

[Misfits]

Please don't pretend to know what's in my head. I don't speak or write in innuendos so there's no point in being condescending, for it will not offend me.

I don't understand what the interesting point she is making. Can you fill me in.

 

[marathonfool]

Please don't pretend to know what's in my head. I don't speak or write in innuendos so there's no point in being condescending, for it will not offend me.

I don't care to know what's in you head. Trust me.

 

[ComputerMKII]

When's our next teacher rape thread dude? haven't had one in a while, you slippin?

What does this have to do with the current topic? If you have questions about that, I'd rather you sent me a PM.

 

[G.O.O.]

Daily Kos: Can´t feel sorry for Utøya victims, says Debbie Schlussel

 

[goomba]

yeah i saw this on facebook too, i think the point is that one guy killed way more people and was labeled a psycho murderer while the other guy killed significantly less people but was labeled by his religion association.

Indeed. Especially BS as Anders proclaims himself to be "100% Christian"

 

[ComputerMKII]

I don't understand what the interesting point she is making. Can you fill me in.

There seem to be different expectations as to how the muslim community should react about the shootings and I haven't seen it discussed in other news or opinion articles.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

There seem to be different expectations as to how the muslim community should react about the shootings and I haven't seen it discussed in other news or opinion articles.

No one outside of Stormfront cares for Debbie's views on Muslims.

Don't bring that vile bullshit here.

 

[Choke on the Magic]

Indeed. Especially BS as Anders proclaims himself to be "100% Christian"

1 Christian radical compared to countless Islamic radicals may have a lot to do with that.
It doesn't make it more right, but you have to see that there's a much bigger problem within the Islamic community.

 

[Foxy Fox 39]

Something like 800 meters, it's a few streets away from here.

geez...

So how did he die? They shot him or was it a grenade?