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[captainnapalm]

Which bits are you struggling to accept at face value?

His history, where he comes from, his terrorist connections, his Afghan background, his true motive, his mental state, his convictions. I'm not saying it's all not true as reported, just that the nature of the media today means all this information isn't going to get thoroughly scrutinised. A trial would have at least had a better chance of presenting us with concrete facts.

 

[ComputerMKII]

Why wouldn't they use sleeping gas like the Russians did in the Nord-Ost theater?
Chances of him dying: ~50%, chances of policemen dying: 0%

Merah started shooting as soon as he knew the police was coming. Perhaps throwing gas in the wrong room could have alerted him as well?

 

[ComputerMKII]

Sarkozy just announced that every person who regularly consults websites praising terrorism would be legally punished from now on.

Edit : same thing for people who go to terrorist training camps abroad.

Edit : he wants to somehow reform French prisons so that they stop serving as terrorist indoctrination centers.

 

[ToxicAdam]

His history, where he comes from, his terrorist connections, his Afghan background, his true motive, his mental state, his convictions. I'm not saying it's all not true as reported, just that the nature of the media today means all this information isn't going to get thoroughly scrutinised. A trial would have at least had a better chance of presenting us with concrete facts.

What makes you convinced he would willingly, truthfully answer all these questions? What would be the benefit for him?

 

[archnemesis]

Sarkozy just announced that every person who regularly consults websites praising terrorism would be legally punished from now on.

What would be the crime? Do we really need even more restrictions of free speech?

Edit : same thing for people who go to terrorist training camps abroad.

This I can agree with.

 

[ComputerMKII]

Impact of the events in Toulouse on the upcoming French presidential elections:

Dr Rainbow Murray senior lecturer at London's Queen Mary University said far right candidate Marine Le Pen and incumbent president Nicolas Sarkozy will gain the most from the fallout of Mohamed Merah's deadly actions.
"I think it is going to boostt he far right but I don't think it will be sufficient for Marine Le Pen to get her through to the second round of voting. Many people voting for Le Pen in the first round will vote for Sarkozy in the second round and help him close the gap on socialist candidate Francois Hollande," Murray said.

French far right presidential candidate Marine Le Pen has called on French Muslims to "fight against fundamentalism".

Source: France 24

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

He kept stalling them, saying he'd surrender "in a couple of hours". Probably just wanted the attention.

I fear he was trying to upload his video even if by mobile.

Jesus.

What about investigating how and where did he get those arms? Submachine guns are not freely available in France. Also, apparently he was trained in Afghanistan, which means he could have some useful contacts.

I want to say via North African arms trade and possibly via Algeria. Lots of guns in the area and fairly close to France. I wonder if the UZI wasn't some foreign knock off. Lord knows Norinco must make one.

 

[SmokyDave]

His history, where he comes from, his terrorist connections, his Afghan background, his true motive, his mental state, his convictions. I'm not saying it's all not true as reported, just that the nature of the media today means all this information isn't going to get thoroughly scrutinised. A trial would have at least had a better chance of presenting us with concrete facts.

Eh, I think we know plenty about many of those things except for his terrorist connections and he wasn't about to spill them.

A trial would've been ideal, but I don't think there are any great mysteries to solve here.

 

[sflufan]

No opportunity for interrogation to discover if he was part of a larger cell is certainly a disappointment.

 

[ComputerMKII]

What would be the crime? Do we really need even more restrictions of free speech?

It wouldn't be the first time:

France court orders Copwatch site closed

The Tribunal de Grande Instance de Paris has ordered French Internet service providers to block access to Copwatch Nord Paris I-D-F, a website designed to allow civilians to post videos of alleged police misconduct, says a Jurist report.

The decision was applauded by the police union, Alliance Police Nationale (APN), which argued that the website incited violence against police. Jean-Claude Delage, secretary general of the APN, said that 'the judges have analysed the situation perfectly - this site being a threat to the integrity of the police - and made the right decision'. Opponents of Internet censorship were also quick to comment on the judgment. Jeremie Zimmermann, spokesperson for La Quadrature du Net, a Paris-based net neutrality organisation, called the order 'an obvious will by the French Government to control and censor citizens' new online public sphere'. The site was ordered to be blocked immediately.

http://www.legalbrief.co.za/article.php?story=20111019080629176

This is the result of a lawsuit started by Claude Guéant, the same government member who supervised today's raid against Mohammed Merah.

This I can agree with.

On what legal grounds could you punish someone who went abroad if he didn't actually commit any crime? Also, how would/could you obtain any proofs?

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Sarkozy just announced that every person who regularly consults websites praising terrorism would be legally punished from now on.

Edit : same thing for people who go to terrorist training camps abroad.

One is really creepy. I mean what if one goes there to troll and/or study for analysis but isn't part of the government.

Second, if crafted properly would be fine.

 

[captainnapalm]

What makes you convinced he would willingly, truthfully answer all these questions? What would be the benefit for him?

The purpose of a trial is to arrive at the truth through presenting evidence and performing cross-examinations, whether the defendant is cooperating or not. Though most terrorists do not try and deny their actions the way regular criminals do, so he might have been fairly forthright. Oh well, we'll never know.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

No opportunity for interrogation to discover if he was part of a larger cell is certainly a disappointment.

The terrifying thing is he may not have known due to compartmentalization. People may have orders to attack after an attack, go when an oppurtunity, or if detection seems likely, all which this clown would have no knowledge about. The best terrorist cells work when the other cells have no knowledge of the other.

 

[Kinyou]

I just hope that he didn't spend those 31 hours destroying evidence.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

It wouldn't be the first time:


http://www.legalbrief.co.za/article.php?story=20111019080629176

This is the result of a lawsuit started by Claude Guéant, the same government member who supervised today's raid against Mohammed Merah.


On what legal grounds could you punish someone who went abroad if he didn't actually commit any crime? Also, how would/could you obtain any proofs?

Intent to commit terrorist crimes and providing material support to terrorist groups. It's not that abstract of an idea. Same way US citizens can't go abroad to screw children.

 

[archnemesis]

On what legal grounds could you punish someone who went abroad if he didn't actually commit any crime? Also, how would/could you obtain any proofs?

Of course you can't sentence someone without any actual proof. I guess the only way to obtain solid evidence is to try to cooperate with the authorities of countries harboring terrorist camps.

 

[captainnapalm]

Eh, I think we know plenty about many of those things except for his terrorist connections and he wasn't about to spill them.

A trial would've been ideal, but I don't think there are any great mysteries to solve here.

Quite possibly, but I like to have more sources of information than the mainstream media as a rule, or risk spending my days swallowing all manner of bullshit.

 

[Sealda]

Why wouldn't they use sleeping gas like the Russians did in the Nord-Ost theater?
Chances of him dying: ~50%, chances of policemen dying: 0%

Exactly what i was thinking. If it worked on 20 people wearing suicide belts and AK47s spread all over a theater, it sure as hell would worked in this case too.

 

[DarkKyo]

Nothing more cowardice than a human who kills with no remorse yet is too scared to be killed by another himself.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Exactly what i was thinking. If it worked on 20 people wearing suicide belts and AK47s spread all over a theater, it sure as hell would worked in this case too.

Its entirely possible France doesn't have access to some crazy stuff Russia pulled off the shelf. That gas had a lot of issues and easily go have injured other people.

 

[Zeppelin]

Its entirely possible France doesn't have access to some crazy stuff Russia pulled off the shelf. That gas had a lot of issues and easily go have injured other people.

Yeah, taking into account what a huge fuck up the theatre incident was I'd be surprised if anyone would consider using that stuff ever again.

 

[Alx]

A gas with such high risks of being lethal would (should) be labeled as chemical weapon, and thus outlawed.

 

[Kurtofan]

Sarkozy just announced that every person who regularly consults websites praising terrorism would be legally punished from now on.

Edit : same thing for people who go to terrorist training camps abroad.

Edit : he wants to somehow reform French prisons so that they stop serving as terrorist indoctrination centers.

Also praising terrorist crimes in general.

 

[Funky Papa]

Meh, I visit Stormfront for the lulz.

 

[TCRS]

real or fake?

 

[Zeppelin]

real or fake?

Fake.

http://www.programme-tv.net/news/buzz/22209-fox-news-photomontage-toulouse-buzz-photos/

 

[TCRS]

Yeah, thought so. Too obvious.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Tango down.

The world keeps on turning.

 

[leadbelly]

Also praising terrorist crimes in general.

Isn't this kind of a thought crime?

 

[Magni]

Concerning the (lack of) use of gas: they wanted Merah alive, and were afraid he'd commit suicide if he felt gas being leaked into his apartment. They only fired on him once he started to be a threat to RAID forces by firing on them (not including the first assault the previous night).

Patience is one of the many qualities looked for in RAID applicants.

I think they could have waited a bit more, but then again I'm far from an expert. He's dead and I won't cry for him.

 

[Zeppelin]

Isn't this kind of a thought crime?

Kinda. Punishing people who visits web pages praising terrorism sounds pretty fucking crazy too imo.

 

[Purkake4]

Shooting while jumping out of the window? That's some Matrix shit right there.

Also, I think all the riot shield people meant ballistics shields? That seems like a reasonable thing to bring along when you're facing submachine gun-wielding terrorists...

 

[leadbelly]

Kinda. Punishing people who visits web pages praising terrorism sounds pretty fucking crazy too imo.

Well, my question includes that also. It just seems like simply believing terrorism is justified is a crime now.

Of course I'm not condoning the practice of terrorism, but a crime for believing it is okay? I don't know about that.

I don't really know the details though.

 

[keuja]

This picture really got me. It's from the funeral of one of the three soldiers believed to have been killed by the same guy. That is his pregnant girlfriend on the right side.

So sad

Apparently he had some Molotov cocktails, a bullet proof vest under a djellaba and a pot full of ammunition. When he left the bathroom, he continuously shot at the RAID team until he jumped off the windows and was hit by bullets.

 

[Kinyou]

Yeah, taking into account what a huge fuck up the theatre incident was I'd be surprised if anyone would consider using that stuff ever again.

Afaik could have been lots of people been saved if they had been applied some simple first aid and had put them into the recovery position

 

[Feature]

video with the sound of gunshots:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuoLlEVgfoM

firefight starts at 1:20

 

[ComputerMKII]

The police said they killed Merah with a headshot while in legitimate defense.

 

[Goldrusher]

One is really creepy. I mean what if one goes there to troll

I'm sure you won't be thrown under the guillotine for merely being a visitor or even a member.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Afaik could have been lots of people been saved if they had been applied some simple first aid and had put them into the recovery position

Wasn't an issue that they had to have an Anti-Toxin administrered and the Russian's didn't have enough on hand, just told medics to start injected it, and/or the anti-toxin just didn't work well anyway.

I'm sure you won't be thrown under the guillotine for merely being a visitor or even a member.

Who knows, I mean England banned a group and membership in said group despite it not being a criminal organization (not discounting it was a vile bunch of ignorant shits)

 

[Goldrusher]

Who knows, I mean England banned a group and membership in said group despite it not being a criminal organization (not discounting it was a vile bunch of ignorant shits)

Why are you not naming that group ?

 

[ComputerMKII]

In a press conference moments ago prosecutor Francois Molins said gunman Mohamed Merah told police he had recorded his three deadly shootings and had uploaded the videos to the web, but authorities did not know where they were located online.

More reaction from French far right leader Marine Le Pen via Reuters news agency:

"The government is scared," said Le Pen, who took the reins of France's anti-immigrant National Front party from her father Jean-Marie Le Pen last year.

"I've been saying this for 10 years. Entire districts are in the hands of Islamic fundamentalists and I say it again today the danger is underestimated," she told France Info radio.

"The reality dawning on the French people is that social and civil peace has been bought in a number of districts and that price is the development of (fundamentalist) networks," she said, estimating there were thousands of Islamic militants in France."

http://www.france24.com/en/20120322...unman-mohamed-refuses-surrender-france-police

 

[el retorno]

http://www.france24.com/en/20120322...unman-mohamed-refuses-surrender-france-police

He had plenty of time :/

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Why are you not naming that group ?

Was typing quickly on my phone, also figured most recalled the name. It's Muslim's Against (the?) Crusaders.

In a press conference moments ago prosecutor Francois Molins said gunman Mohamed Merah told police he had recorded his three deadly shootings and had uploaded the videos to the web, but authorities did not know where they were located online.

Fucking hell.

 

[Funky Papa]

http://www.france24.com/en/20120322...unman-mohamed-refuses-surrender-france-police

Well, I damn fucking hope nobody gets a hold on them besides the authorities. The last thing I need to see are shock gifs of little kids getting killed.

 

[SmokyDave]

Was typing quickly on my phone, also figured most recalled the name. It's Muslim's Against (the?) Crusaders.

Islam4UK were banned and they operate under a few other names.

Essentially, we ought to just shoot Anjem Choudhary. Twice.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Well, I damn fucking hope nobody gets a hold on them besides the authorities. The last thing I need to see are shock gifs of little kids getting killed.

Once on the internet, always on the internet. <sigh> I guess the best hope was that it was to a private account only he had access or knowledge too, but that's being optimistic.

Islam4UK were banned and they operate under a few other names.

Essentially, we ought to just shoot Anjem Choudhary. Twice.

Thanks.

 

[MasLegio]

lets all be in agreement, we will report anyone who deals with these files to the police, no matter who they are.
If that does not help we will beat the shit out of them, no matter who they are.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

lets all be in agreement, we will report anyone who deals with these files to the police, no matter who they are.
If that does not help we will beat the shit out of them, no matter who they are.

I like the idea of a good old shit kicking for a fall back.

 

[retrow]

lets all be in agreement, we will report anyone who deals with these files to the police, no matter who they are.
If that does not help we will beat the shit out of them, no matter who they are.

I'm in for the first part.

 

[ComputerMKII]

Well, I damn fucking hope nobody gets a hold on them besides the authorities. The last thing I need to see are shock gifs of little kids getting killed.

What if he lied?