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[Rocket Scientist]

...

Does your mother have health insurance right now? I understood the whole law as ''if you already have insurance, that's cool. We're only adding the possibility to have your kids on there and added things like contraception etc''. If she doesn't have insurance, then yeah it would be a different story.

 

[Manmademan]

Really guys, where can I find some raw number info for the Affordable Care Act to help understand what my dad's talking about in my last post. According to things I've found if you have under 50 employees you should be exempt from any sort of penalty and you don't have to do anything. My mom has just herself. She's self-employed, but my dad seems to think she'll be paying a $4,500 tax along with my dad's $4,000 tax for the insurance. That seems really, really high, and illogical. Would a self-employed person really be taxed/penalized that much under the law?

I really want to understand this stuff, because I'd feel kind of bad voting Obama and then having my mom close down her shop. I think I'd still vote Obama, but I'd feel a bit bad about it. Something tells me though that what he's saying is a bit off. And it's really hard to find a reputable site for this stuff. Half the things that come up seem like right wing fear blogs and stuff, and the other half feel a bit too far on the other side.

I'm not an expert, but it looks like your father doesn't understand what he's talking about, or is deliberately misleading you.

let's start with the first concern:

If obama care goes into effect this company and employees will have to pay 40% tax on what our health care program is worth. (Value)

It looks like he's talking about the excise tax on "cadillac" plans. This not only doesn't kick in until 2018, It only applies to plans with value in excess of $10,200 individually, or 27,000 for a family plan- which is roughly double the national average. Even most union plans fall well under this limit, and given that your father is only making $35,000 at an office job it's extremely unlikely his position offers one of these.

That would meqn I have to get into government plan w/deductible at a set % rate of my income. Approx $4500 per year.

There IS no "government plan." Heath Care reform is still 100% private. massive red flag here. The "deductible at set % of income" and $4500 a year cost is completely out of his ass.

Mom owning a business will have to pay the government a set rate for health care based on her income-as business

Must pay penalty or rate no matter what in order to provide health care to the people who do not have health care.

Wrong again. Small business (anything under 50 employees) is exempt from having to provide insurance. VERY small business (anything under 25, sole proprietorships) are not only exempt, but receive tax credits to ease their burden.

and finally,

Low income persons and families above the Medicaid level and up to 400% of the federal poverty level will receive federal subsidies[27] on a sliding scale if they choose to purchase insurance via an exchange (persons at 150% of the poverty level would be subsidized such that their premium cost would be of 2% of income or $50 a month for a family of 4).[28]

unless your mother is rolling in dough from her business, it looks like your family will be eligible for federal subsidies towards purchasing their own insurance on top of that. 400% of federal poverty level is about 80,000 for a family of four, 70,000 or so for a family of three.

All of this info can easily be found on the wiki page for the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.

 

[RDreamer]

Does your mother have health insurance right now? I understood the whole law as ''if you already have insurance, that's cool. We're only adding the possibility to have your kids on there and added things like contraception etc''. If she doesn't have insurance, then yeah it would be a different story.

She does, through my dad. My dad has a normal office job, and so he gets the family insurance. From what I remember from conversations with him he pays something like $250 per month I think for both of them (way lower than what he used to pay at other jobs). So that's where my mom gets her insurance right now.

What he's saying in that email is that his job would likely drop insurance all together and pay the penalty instead of any taxes from the act. That's where things get jumbled. What exactly happens to those that get dropped from their employers health insurance like that? He's saying that they'd both have to get on the "government plan," but I thought there wasn't really a government plan? I thought the exchanges were just a way to buy private insurance and stuff? I thought the "government plan" was dropped (wasn't that the public option thing?).

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

LOL, just ran across this Elizabeth Warren stuff - how do people think they would get away with this?


So where did this Native American claim start? Was she actually touted by Harvard as Native American?

She obviously felt it would help get her ahead there somehow. Disgusting. People seem to do this all the time without thinking they will be questioned. Now she says she didn't know how/why she was listed as a minority. Sure...... For nine years she was self-identified as a minority and never knew? What? Liar.

 

[Zabka]

There's a lot of jargon there that seems to go a bit over my head, and doesn't really specify any solid numbers. Also, when plugging in the self-employed stuff into their thing it just says get private insurance. My dad seems to be saying that they'd both need to be on the state exchange plan. At least that's how I'm reading it anyway, since my mom is self employed she would function the same as an individual getting insurance, right?

I just really want to know where the hell he's getting the numbers. Everything seems so vague right now I don't get how he gets the $4,000 and $4,500 things. It seems to me he's saying they'd have to pay in a set % of their income, but I can't find anywhere what that actual percentage is.

The only actual rates I can find are in the high risk pool pre-existing condition things. Is that the same as what the exchanges will be? Is that what he'd be getting into?

Depends on what state you live in. Small businesses are actually getting a lot of tax credits to pay for health care.

 

[Manmademan]

She does, through my dad. My dad has a normal office job, and so he gets the family insurance. From what I remember from conversations with him he pays something like $250 per month I think for both of them (way lower than what he used to pay at other jobs). So that's where my mom gets her insurance right now.

What he's saying in that email is that his job would likely drop insurance all together and pay the penalty instead of any taxes from the act. That's where things get jumbled. What exactly happens to those that get dropped from their employers health insurance like that? He's saying that they'd both have to get on the "government plan," but I thought there wasn't really a government plan? I thought the exchanges were just a way to buy private insurance and stuff? I thought the "government plan" was dropped (wasn't that the public option thing?).

see my explanation as to why what your father is saying is BS. It's a popular conservative myth that businesses will just "drop their health care plans" and pay a $2000 penalty per employee per year rather than offer healthcare coverage.

That argument falls apart pretty quickly when you realize that health benefits, like salary, are an important part of keeping a competitive workforce happy and working for you.

 

[RDreamer]

I'm not an expert, but it looks like your father doesn't understand what he's talking about, or is deliberately misleading you.

He's not deliberately misleading me. He may be extremely right wing, but he wouldn't purposefully lead me to a wrong conclusion. He says what he believes and that's about it. If anything he must be confused, or the insurance people at his work confused him and/or mislead him. Not sure.

It looks like he's talking about the excise tax on "cadillac" plans. This not only doesn't kick in until 2018, It only applies to plans with value in excess of $10,200 individually, or 27,000 for a family plan- which is roughly double the national average. Even most union plans fall well under this limit, and given that your father is only making $35,000 at an office job it's extremely unlikely his position offers one of these.

Thanks for this info. What does the value mean? Is that a per year value average or something? I doubt he has a "cadillac" plan, though he did say it was a lot cheaper than a ton of other plans he's been on.

There IS no "government plan." Heath Care reform is still 100% private. massive red flag here. The "deductible at set % of income" and $4500 a year cost is completely out of his ass.

That's kind of what I was thinking, and that's also where I was really confused. I had thought the exchanges were private insurance things. You just had to buy separate insurance elsewhere.

Thinking about it now that cost has to be some sort of estimate given to him by the insurance people or something.

Wrong again. Small business (anything under 50 employees) is exempt from having to provide insurance. VERY small business (anything under 25, sole proprietorships) are not only exempt, but receive tax credits to ease their burden.

Yeah, again that's what I thought. It'd be fucking crazy if a self-employed person had to pay a ton of tax stuff just because they were also a business. I wouldn't think that would make it into the law at all, and that's where I was confused.

unless your mother is rolling in dough from her business, it looks like your family will be eligible for federal subsidies towards purchasing their own insurance on top of that. 400% of federal poverty level is about 80,000 for a family of four, 70,000 or so for a family of three.

No way my mom's making even near that. At an absolute max I'd put her at making $30,000, and that's because I calculated it out based on his % of income thing. If he had himself paying $4,500 and my mom paying $4,000 based on his flawed belief that puts her income at about ~$31,000 or so. Personally I'd really be surprised if it was that much at all. She doesn't charge jack shit, and I remember them making comments about their total income not being much above $50,000 per year.

see my explanation as to why what your father is saying is BS. It's a popular conservative myth that businesses will just "drop their health care plans" and pay a $2000 penalty per employee per year rather than offer healthcare coverage.

That argument falls apart pretty quickly when you realize that health benefits, like salary, are an important part of keeping a competitive workforce happy and working for you.

Overall it's probably a myth, but I doubt my dad would fabricate this meeting. He's really right wing as hell, but he doesn't make shit up. If he says it then he found it somewhere or heard it. I'll believe him at that. So is it possible the health insurance people or his company's HR is just trying to scare them with the "we might possibly drop you guys" shit?

 

[Aaron Strife]

Obama's leading Romney by 8 points in Virginia, 51-43. His approval is also 50-46. This is the biggest lead he's had there since Bin Laden's death (where he led by 11).

If Romney's losing VA, he's losing the White House. And PD's losing a bet.

On top of that, if Cantor were Romney's VP, Obama would actually lead by 12.

 

[Hawkian]

What's PD's wager?

 

[Tim-E]

Obama's leading Romney by 8 points in Virginia, 51-43. His approval is also 50-46. This is the biggest lead he's had there since Bin Laden's death (where he led by 11).

If Romney's losing VA, he's losing the White House. And PD's losing a bet.

On top of that, if Cantor were Romney's VP, Obama would actually lead by 12.

I'm starting to think of Virginia as being "lean Obama" instead of the "toss-up" I've been thinking of it as over the last few months. Let's hope this holds up.

 

[mckmas8808]

Yup when you are for and against everything you are never wrong LOL

And you are never right.

 

[Manmademan]

He's not deliberately misleading me. He may be extremely right wing, but he wouldn't purposefully lead me to a wrong conclusion. He says what he believes and that's about it. If anything he must be confused, or the insurance people at his work confused him and/or mislead him. Not sure.

you yourself admit your father is "extremely right wing." Sometimes people believe what they want to believe, and hear what they want to hear. Someone who is "very right wing" has likely heard all kinds of misinformation about the plan from cable news, pundits, friends, local representatives with an interest in overturning the law, so it's unlikely that this meeting is his only source of information. I'm not calling your father a liar- far from it- but again people tend to tune into information that agrees with what they want to hear, or already "know", and tune out anything that conflicts with it.

Thanks for this info. What does the value mean? Is that a per year value average or something? I doubt he has a "cadillac" plan, though he did say it was a lot cheaper than a ton of other plans he's been on.

Again, not an expert but value is usually calculated based on the dollar amount his employer is contributing towards the cost of the plan. To exceed the $27,000 family plan "limit" (since you mentioned you guys are on a family plan) for cadillac plans, your father's employer would have to be contributing an amount nearly EQUAL to what they're paying him in salary for health care, and 9 times higher than what he himself is contributing per month. This is way, WAY higher than is typical. He can get concrete information from his job on exactly what his plan is worth, so I'd ask him to do that and start your conversation there. Given that he was way, way off on everything else, i don't expect this to pan out.

Thinking about it now that cost has to be some sort of estimate given to him by the insurance people or something.

unlikely, since insurance is something that varies from person to person and company to company, and the exchanges aren't even set up yet. Any hard figures like this aren't an "estimate", they're a fabrication. I doubt this 'meeting' brought them up at all- again, given the amount of misinformation in the email.

Overall it's probably a myth, but I doubt my dad would fabricate this meeting. He's really right wing as hell, but he doesn't make shit up. If he says it then he found it somewhere or heard it. I'll believe him at that. So is it possible the health insurance people or his company's HR is just trying to scare them with the "we might possibly drop you guys" shit?

Again- not saying he's a liar, but he probably took whatever he heard in the meeting, and combined it with what he "knew" from other sources- and there are a LOT of sources with blatant misinformation about the healthcare law.

 

[Hawkian]

Listening to Rush bitch about the Correspondent's Dinner...

"It's supposed to be a night off. In recent years it hasn't been a night off. It's Democrats continuing to be who they are. That's why I don't go."

Oh yeah... that's why, old chap

 

[Escape Goat]

The governor of the people ladies and gentlemen. Is there anybody else remotely viable as a running mate for Romney realistically speaking?

(CBS News) New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie on Monday reiterated his claim that he has no interest in serving as Mitt Romney's running mate in the presidential election, but he said he could be convinced otherwise.

"I really have no interest in being vice president, but if Gov. Romney called and asked me to sit down and talk to him about it, I'd listen because I think you owe the nominee, your party that level of respect -- and who knows what he's going to say?" Christie told students at a New Jersey high school, the New Jersey Star-Ledger reports. "He might be able to convince me, he's a convincing guy."

Still, Christie jokingly added, "Do I really look like the vice presidential type? Sitting behind him at the state of the union? I don't really think that's me."

The brash Republican governor -- the first Republican elected to lead New Jersey in 12 years -- is often listed as a potential running mate for Romney.

On "CBS This Morning" Tuesday, Romney said he had no hints to give as to whom his running mate may be.

"I've got nothing for you," he said, noting that his trusted adviser Beth Myers is handling the VP vetting process. "If I do things right, no one's going to hear anything until I make an announcement," he said. "And I don't even know when that's going to be."

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Hmmm my dad just sent me this email on Obamacare and the effects it would have on where he works and my mom's business. Besides the obvious grammar issues, is there anything he's wrong about here? For info sake my mom owns a beauty salon, so that's the Shop he's talking about. She has no employees at all. And from what I understand she really doesn't make much at all. I don't know the exact numbers, though. My dad has a normal office job and, I think, makes about ~$35,000 if I remember correctly. So those are the numbers that I know. Here's what he says:

I don't know where he is getting the numbers from or the 40% tax. As far as I am aware, there was a tax being planned for Cadillac insurance plans, which was actually then lowered from the 40%. Most normal insurance plans don't quality for it and a Cadillac plan was defined as being 8000$ or more PER PERSON each year. Unions were against it for high risk jobs do exceed that amount and it was lowered.

Additionally, I don't believe any of that goes into effect without the exchanges being in place. So, if nothing else he and your Mom's business should be able to get cheap insurance from the exchange.

Edit: I just got an email response from Ezra Klein :

No. There's no provision like that anywhere in the law.

My specific question to him was, is there anything that requires payment of a 40% tax on the health insurance value.

If I had to say, your Dad's company is using HCR as a ruse to drop insurance coverage. Won't be the first time. Last year, our company was told insurance premiums were going up because of HCR before even the things they mentioned went into effect.

 

[Manmademan]

The governor of the people ladies and gentlemen. Is there anybody else remotely viable as a running mate for Romney realistically speaking?

Christie doesn't even chart as far as viable candidates go. He can't help carry new jersey no matter what he does.

The two names that are generally at the top of the list are Rubio (though i doubt this will happen, especially if Romney keeps polling as poorly as he does) and Rob Portman, junior senator from Ohio.

 

[RDreamer]

Again, not an expert but value is usually calculated based on the dollar amount his employer is contributing towards the cost of the plan. To exceed the $27,000 family plan "limit" (since you mentioned you guys are on a family plan) for cadillac plans, your father's employer would have to be contributing an amount nearly EQUAL to what they're paying him in salary for health care, and 9 times higher than what he himself is contributing per month. This is way, WAY higher than is typical. He can get concrete information from his job on exactly what his plan is worth, so I'd ask him to do that and start your conversation there. Given that he was way, way off on everything else, i don't expect this to pan out.

I'd assume they're on a family plan. I'm not on their plan, since I live with my wife. I'm not entirely sure if my sister is on their plan or not, though. I don't think so, but I could be wrong. That does seem like a crazy amount for his employer to be giving out.

unlikely, since insurance is something that varies from person to person and company to company, and the exchanges aren't even set up yet. Any hard figures like this aren't an "estimate", they're a fabrication. I doubt this 'meeting' brought them up at all- again, given the amount of misinformation in the email.

What exactly are these exchanges? Aren't the exchanges just private insurances competing to get your money? Isn't it just like some database you can hook into and get insurance through whatever insurance you want, or is it something different?

 

[Aaron Strife]

What's PD's wager?

Avatar bet. With Puddles I think?

I'm starting to think of Virginia as being "lean Obama" instead of the "toss-up" I've been thinking of it as over the last few months. Let's hope this holds up.

In the hierarchy of swing states, I'd actually give VA to Obama before Ohio or Florida. The "New South" strategy has merit and states like VA, NC, SC, GA, TX etc. will probably play hugely into future Democratic wins, as midwestern states like PA, WI and IA drift away from them.

Similar to the Reagan/Bush years, there will probably be a point where Democrats romp the electoral college consistently until the new swing states even themselves out.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Christie would be a bad pick for VP. He would completely upstage Romney, and I could see him "going rogue" in terms of going off script, especially if the campaign starts going poorly. He's also smart enough to know that Romney could lose badly

He'll stay in NJ, build his resume, and then dominate in 2016 (if Obama wins)

 

[Manmademan]

I'd assume they're on a family plan. I'm not on their plan, since I live with my wife. I'm not entirely sure if my sister is on their plan or not, though. I don't think so, but I could be wrong. That does seem like a crazy amount for his employer to be giving out.

Any insurance plan that covers more than the individual is a "family" plan. So yes, he's on one. It's not only a "crazy amount" it's completely implausible. Again, that 27,000 limit was raised to where it is due to union objections. Even high risk jobs like say, welding and construction don't hit this limit. edit: and it occurs to me that even in the unlikely situation that he has one of these, dropping down to a plan under this limit for a company is trivial- private business switches insurance providers and/or negotiates to lower costs constantly- it's part of what your HR department is for, after all.

What exactly are these exchanges? Aren't the exchanges just private insurances competing to get your money? Isn't it just like some database you can hook into and get insurance through whatever insurance you want, or is it something different?

Not exactly. the exchanges would be a set of state regulated (but privately owned/run) healthcare plans that individuals could choose from. These exchanges could be single state, or multi-state. Unfortunately any concrete details on plan cost or who is even participating aren't available yet, since the exchanges won't be set up until 2014. Even insurance companies couldn't tell you, since the states themselves havent decided the criteria for what qualifies yet, or if they will be part of a single or multistate exchange. This is why I said any concrete numbers aren't an estimate, but a fabrication.

 

[Escape Goat]

Christie doesn't even chart as far as viable candidates go. He can't help carry new jersey no matter what he does.

The two names that are generally at the top of the list are Rubio (though i doubt this will happen, especially if Romney keeps polling as poorly as he does) and Rob Portman, junior senator from Ohio.

Ah, I am vaguely aware of Rubio. But I've never heard of Portman. I guess I wouldn't since hes a junior senator from Ohio.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Now Romney is saying his 07 comment was that he criticized Obama's naive decision to tell everyone that he would attack inside of Pakistan. He also argued Biden held a similar position during the primary (which is true).

 

[Manmademan]

Ah, I am vaguely aware of Rubio. But I've never heard of Portman. I guess I wouldn't since hes a junior senator from Ohio.

Rubio's name has been flying around constantly for months. Part of the base desperately wants him since:

1.) He's a young, and charismatic senator
2.) He's from Florida, a "must win" swing state for Romney
3.) He's hispanic, and the GOP desperately needs to make inroads here

Unfortunately:

1.)He's perhaps a bit TOO new. If he accepts the VP pick, he'll have roughly a year and a half in as a senator before abandoning the job to run for VP- or about half the experience Obama did before his presidential run. If Romney's polling was higher and Obama was vulnerable (as Bush was) i could see this as a possibility, but Rubio is much, MUCH better off sitting this one out and running as a candidate for 2016 if that's where his aspirations are.

2.)Unfortunately for the GOP, the interests of cuban americans do not precisely dovetail with the rest of hispanic-americans, particularly on the immigration issue. Cubans automatically gain citizenship when they come here, unlike the rest of hispanic immigrants and have ALWAYS voted heavily republican. Nominating Rubio isn't really going to do a hell of a lot for hispanic popularity, and indeed some polls have shown obama gaining larger leads in Florida with rubio on the ticket, instead of vice versa.

 

[DasRaven]

Romney may have also made the same call one year ago, but only the President can go to Afghanistan to sign a strategic partnership agreement with Karzai on the anniversary.

https://twitter.com/#!/natlsecuritycnn/statuses/197400684319084545

As usual, there are no coincidences in electoral politics.

 

[Tamanon]

Christie vs Biden would be absolutely hilarious though.

 

[Suikoguy]

Christie would be a bad pick for VP. He would completely upstage Romney, and I could see him "going rogue" in terms of going off script, especially if the campaign starts going poorly. He's also smart enough to know that Romney could lose badly

He'll stay in NJ, build his resume, and then dominate in 2016 (if Obama wins)

Who would not?
Maybe Wilson from Castaway?

Eh, maybe not...

 

[Aaron Strife]

Obama's meeting with Karzai tonight and will address the nation at 7:30? Wonder what it could be? End of the war?

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Now Romney is saying his 07 comment was that he criticized Obama's naive decision to tell everyone that he would attack inside of Pakistan. He also argued Biden held a similar position during the primary (which is true).

LOL, but fits into his election strategy of not giving any specifics...

His team also has been saying that Obama shouldn't talk about the consequences of an attack on Iran.

 

[DasRaven]

Obama's meeting with Karzai tonight and will address the nation at 7:30? Wonder what it could be? End of the war?

Probably turnover of ground ops to Afghan military and (I hope) an even faster withdrawal schedule. Whatever it is, Romney loses another news cycle.

 

[The Librarian]

Romney may have also made the same call one year ago, but only the President can go to Afghanistan to sign a strategic partnership agreement with Karzai on the anniversary.

https://twitter.com/#!/natlsecuritycnn/statuses/197400684319084545

As usual, there are no coincidences in electoral politics.

Obama's meeting with Karzai tonight and will address the nation at 7:30? Wonder what it could be? End of the war?

Yeah, I'm wondering what this is all about. It looks to be a huge announcement which is going to make Romney look weak in the knees.

 

[Arde5643]

LOL, but fits into his election strategy of not giving any specifics...

Just like how inequality in wealth should be discussed in closed doors. Oh Romney....

 

[Invisible_Insane]

Obama's meeting with Karzai tonight and will address the nation at 7:30? Wonder what it could be? End of the war?

Whatever it is, I would prepare to be underwhelmed.

 

[DasRaven]

Yeah, I'm wondering what this is all about. It looks to be a huge announcement which is going to make Romney look weak in the knees.

President Obama seems to be mindful of the strength and importance of the primetime national address.
I'd love for it to be an announcement of al-Zawahiri's demise just for the Bolton/Rumsfeld lulz.

 

[Tim-E]

Obama putting another great foreign policy notch in his belt by withdrawing from Afghanistan before scheduled would be delicious. It not only would continue to get the left excited moving forward, but it would go over nicely with independents, as well. Maybe I shouldn't get too excited, but it's an election year and I wouldn't be too surprised.

 

[DasRaven]

Romney campaign #FAIL

Openly gay Romney spokesperson Richard Grenell resigns after Conservative outrage and thorough web scrubbing.
http://www.businessinsider.com/richard-grenell-gay-mitt-romney-spokesman-resigns-2012-5

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

Now Romney is saying his 07 comment was that he criticized Obama's naive decision to tell everyone that he would attack inside of Pakistan. He also argued Biden held a similar position during the primary (which is true).

Hillary also held the same basic opinion as Romney and Biden.

 

[markatisu]

Romney campaign #FAIL

Openly gay Romney spokesperson Richard Grenell resigns after Conservative outrage and thorough web scrubbing.
http://www.businessinsider.com/richard-grenell-gay-mitt-romney-spokesman-resigns-2012-5

Obama should hammer the shit out of Romney for this, what was his fallacy being gay??

 

[DasRaven]

Obama putting another great foreign policy notch in his belt by withdrawing from Afghanistan before scheduled would be delicious. It not only would continue to get the left excited moving forward, but it would go over nicely with independents, as well. Maybe I shouldn't get too excited, but it's an election year and I wouldn't be too surprised.

I think it is almost certainly a codified status of forces agreement. Then, just as with Iraq,
it'll become a countdown to the end rather than a neverending morass as most people now see it.

That helps Karzai, Obama, morale both here at home and among those who serve.
There's no downside besides having to hear Sen. McCain whine more for a few days.

 

[Tim-E]

I wonder just exactly how much hatred John McCain has for Obama.

 

[Particle Physicist]

LOL, just ran across this Elizabeth Warren stuff - how do people think they would get away with this?



So where did this Native American claim start? Was she actually touted by Harvard as Native American?

Not as bad as Rubio's bullshit. It sounds like after scouring tons of material, they found one thing that had her mention it. Rubio, on the other hand, constantly touted how his family was persecuted by Castro. Both things are pretty stupid though.

 

[Invisible_Insane]

Obama putting another great foreign policy notch in his belt by withdrawing from Afghanistan before scheduled would be delicious. It not only would continue to get the left excited moving forward, but it would go over nicely with independents, as well. Maybe I shouldn't get too excited, but it's an election year and I wouldn't be too surprised.

Even if an immediate exit is the most sensible thing to do, I suspect that the media filter will keep it from being viewed as unambiguously positive, particularly if disgruntled elements of the national security apparatus choose to start complaining about it in public. I would be thrilled if he decided to withdraw now, but given that it's a 180° reversal from current policy, I really doubt that'll be the announcement.

Romney campaign #FAIL

Openly gay Romney spokesperson Richard Grenell resigns after Conservative outrage and thorough web scrubbing.
http://www.businessinsider.com/richard-grenell-gay-mitt-romney-spokesman-resigns-2012-5

That guy was gay? Holy shit.

 

[Manmademan]

I wonder just exactly how much hatred John McCain has for Obama.

Obama specifically? I can't see why he'd have any. If it hadn't been Obama, it would have been Clinton, or Richardson, or Dodd, or Biden...

McCain would have lost to literally ANY democrat running in 2008. It would have taken either a miracle or a massive scandal (i.e. Edwards) for that race to turn out any other way.

 

[Particle Physicist]

Now Romney is saying his 07 comment was that he criticized Obama's naive decision to tell everyone that he would attack inside of Pakistan. He also argued Biden held a similar position during the primary (which is true).

There is a reason why Biden is a VP and not a P. Is he really comparing himself to the VP who disagreed with the guy that beat him? lol

 

[RustyNails]

Seriously did no one watch Piers Morgan yesterday? I thought fans of Jon Stewart/Bill Maher/Reality would've been all over this. It was brutal.

 

[Chichikov]

Seriously did no one watch Piers Morgan yesterday? I thought fans of Jon Stewart/Bill Maher/Reality would've been all over this. It was brutal.

I watched his show once and I hated that cunt so much that I vowed to never watch again.
You sure you're not over-selling that bit?

 

[Invisible_Insane]

Seriously did no one watch Piers Morgan yesterday? I thought fans of Jon Stewart/Bill Maher/Reality would've been all over this. It was brutal.

Something pretty spectacular would have to have happened to make me watch Piers Morgan.

 

[Tim-E]

With the constant slew of pictures of Americans being disrespectful to Afghan prisoners and bodies, in addition to the news of Koran burnings and American soldiers gunning down innocent people, it makes sense for us to leave ASAP. The NYT says that part of the agreement is to provide aid to Afghanistan for a while after we leave, and I think that's the best option. The Afghan government may need help, but after this nonstop barrage of controveries I don't think the Afghan people really welcome us there.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

It would be a brilliant move, puts Romney in a box against. Does he still advocate for a war that majority of Americans want to end including Republicans?

 

[Tim-E]

Even though it would be an insanely popular move, Romney would probably try to use it as something that proves that Obama and the democrats are weak and don't want to be in a constant state of war like it's a bad thing.


Edit:
Seems like this is another issue Romney can't make his mind up on:

Mitt Romney, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, has criticized the president for publicly announcing a date for withdrawal, saying that would allow the Taliban to simply wait out the United States. Mr. Romney has said he would make a decision on when to pull out troops based on the judgment of his generals, though at other times, he has endorsed bringing them home as soon as possible.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/02/w...l-on-unannounced-visit.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

 

[RustyNails]

Im not overselling. It was really intense. I'm on android but heres the link http://www.mediaite.com/tv/piers-mo...over-obamas-campaigning-on-bin-laden-success/

Goldberg was destroyed. Its good journalism.