And on the subject of what he'd think of the new movie, he was also pissed about the egg chamber getting moved inside the derelict, so I imagine he wouldn't be thrilled about the premise of Prometheus...
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P R O M E T H E U S |OT| Ridley Scott goes back to Building Better Worlds
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symphonask
Member
I think he would of jumped at the chance to work on Prometheus. He's unused ideas in Alien like the silos and chambers seem to be the basis for Prometheus. He should have been the one to work with Spaihts, not Lindelof, and I imagine he would have, if he was still alive.
At least Ridley's talking to Fancher about the Blade Runner sequel.
The start of the film shows the bio/DNA weapon is deadly to the engineers and dissolves them, yet on the ship they'd been infected and something had burst from their chest. Also where was any evidence of what had burst from their chests?
The lazy end to the film with the "They have other ships!" to set up the sequel also means exactly the same accident must have happened on all the ships. That's incredibly unlikely, or that they would done nothing when it first happened.
Going back to the start we therefore have to then assume it wasn't the same bio/DNA weapon even though it looked like it, and why he killed himself anyway. The only thing I can come up with is that he was on Earth to seed it with his dissolved modified self, but this is all leaps based on very little in the film. The film does a bad job of explaining anything, just throws lots of things out there leaving you still trying to piece it all together at the end.
Other problems are the lack of motives for characters in what they do. Everyone just does things because they do, even if it doesn't make sense. The development or backstory isn't there to explain or justify it. David is the best character, but even he suffers from it. We just have to assume he's pulling an Alien again with trying to create these things just because.
Other stuff like the final scene didn't work, the holographic history records pretty but just serving as VERY convenient ways to advance the plot, Charlize Theron's character completely wasted and the "Father" line being especially bad. Obvious and pointless both at the same time.
The lazy end to the film with the "They have other ships!" to set up the sequel also means exactly the same accident must have happened on all the ships. That's incredibly unlikely, or that they would done nothing when it first happened.
Going back to the start we therefore have to then assume it wasn't the same bio/DNA weapon even though it looked like it, and why he killed himself anyway. The only thing I can come up with is that he was on Earth to seed it with his dissolved modified self, but this is all leaps based on very little in the film. The film does a bad job of explaining anything, just throws lots of things out there leaving you still trying to piece it all together at the end.
Other problems are the lack of motives for characters in what they do. Everyone just does things because they do, even if it doesn't make sense. The development or backstory isn't there to explain or justify it. David is the best character, but even he suffers from it. We just have to assume he's pulling an Alien again with trying to create these things just because.
Other stuff like the final scene didn't work, the holographic history records pretty but just serving as VERY convenient ways to advance the plot, Charlize Theron's character completely wasted and the "Father" line being especially bad. Obvious and pointless both at the same time.
I found it an incredibly beautiful film, but also an incredibly frustrating one. I think they just tried to do too much, and turned what was a beautifully simple and effective premise in Alien into a convoluted mess of mythology.
Really torn on what to think of the film actually :/
VistraNorrez
Member
People also need to give Ronald Shusett (who is still alive) credit for Alien too. He came up with the most iconic scene in the film, the chestburster. He also loved the addition of the android character thinking it was one of the best things in the film.
Is also important to remember the original Alien script had clunky dialogue. I can only imagine the reception the original Alien would've received on GAF, especially if they followed the whole production like we can nowadays. Probably pretty damn close to how Prometheus is being received.
Is also important to remember the original Alien script had clunky dialogue. I can only imagine the reception the original Alien would've received on GAF, especially if they followed the whole production like we can nowadays. Probably pretty damn close to how Prometheus is being received.
maquiladora
Member
Still going to see this tonight but very disappointed to read most of the comments saying how messy and unsatisfying it was.
Shouldn't have been hyped...
Shouldn't have been hyped...
Still going to see this tonight but very disappointed to read most of the comments saying how messy and unsatisfying it was.
Shouldn't have been hyped...
It's a great movie, visually stunning, with an excellent atmosphere and good actors.
Don't worry too much.
I can understand one can be disappointed, but it's definitely not a bad movie.
Not sure I see your point, here... Clunky dialogue isn't exactly uncommon in early drafts. If that was fixed for Alien but wasn't for Prometheus, it's only fair that the latter would be criticized.
The other sharp contrast for me is that it loses atmosphere and tension as it goes along. Unlike Alien, or Aliens for that matter, which builds it.
The more Prometheus reveals the less effective it becomes, made worse by the lack of character development stopping you caring about them.
Rounded off by an actually funny death right at the end :/
The more Prometheus reveals the less effective it becomes, made worse by the lack of character development stopping you caring about them.
Rounded off by an actually funny death right at the end :/
Same feelings bro!
Just came home from cinema. I am kinda torn apart. Visually it is amazing. But scenario is weird. First half of the movie is like a tv serie. Goes so fast and doesnt build much excitement (at least for me), second half becomes an Alien movie totally. It felt like it was directed with 2 or more directors and Ridley havent directed whole movie.
I really don't believe that, the first half of the movie is quite calm, then shit happens, and get worse. To me, tension simply increased until the end.
Apogee may be the "abortion" though
Maybe I'm easily impressed
I don't get either tbh.
EDIT: I almost entirely agree on your last post though.
yeah, those are some really good points about the movie. Especially the ending and the "Oh, but there are more ships on this planet" buggered me a lot. That would imply that every Engineer on every ship was killed almost at the same time. And it also kinda retcons the story in Aliens. There the planet was colonized and searched through by the experts, but it was believable that they missed the ship since it was hidden. But now we have to believe that they missed several ships??? No, that was some lazy writing just to setup a sequel.
Another thing is the whole Weyland-David-Vickers relationship. Once again this is another plot point which they didn't bother to follow up on (and this won't be done in the sequel). I only saw the first trailer but I thought that Charlize Theron's character would play an important role in the movie as a Ripley-kinda charachter. But in the actual movie she did nothing at all. She makes clear that Shaw shouldn't contact the Engineers in the beginning of the movie but when they do, she does nothing to stop it. And that "I-am-your-daughter-revelation" seemed like something George Lucas would write for the Star Wars prequels.
Just like you I'm really torn about the movie. When it just ended I thought it was really good, but now that I think more about it, the movie starts to make less and less sense.
Another thing is the whole Weyland-David-Vickers relationship. Once again this is another plot point which they didn't bother to follow up on (and this won't be done in the sequel). I only saw the first trailer but I thought that Charlize Theron's character would play an important role in the movie as a Ripley-kinda charachter. But in the actual movie she did nothing at all. She makes clear that Shaw shouldn't contact the Engineers in the beginning of the movie but when they do, she does nothing to stop it. And that "I-am-your-daughter-revelation" seemed like something George Lucas would write for the Star Wars prequels.
Just like you I'm really torn about the movie. When it just ended I thought it was really good, but now that I think more about it, the movie starts to make less and less sense.
Johnlenham
Member
Nice! Just booked tickets. Im pretty much going in blind outside of one trailer as I know GAF-hype can be abit much.
I really don't believe that, the first half of the movie is quite calm, then shit happens, and get worse. To me, tension simply increased until the end.Apogee may be the "abortion" though
Maybe I'm easily impressed
For me the film lacked the sense of dread that Alien had, but it was there occasionally in the first half of the film. When things started actually being revealed it wasn't as effective for me. Less is more, the lesson of Alien I guess. The creature design was pretty bad, and the attempt at humour with the first reveal just made it worse. The final reveal was also pretty weak, and something a videogame would throw at you to be honest.
All this is compounded by how little I cared about the characters, and trying to make sense of the plot, their actions and motives. I cared at the start far more than I did as we got towards the end.
When Charlize Theron was crushed by a giant rolling horseshoe spaceship
I struggled not to laugh.
Quite a few people in the cinema did though, and this was a hardcore midnight screening crowd.
Ape Gone Insane
Member
How would a person who hadn't watched any of the Alien films find this? Would many of the complaints, barring character development and dialogue, still stand enough to detract from the experience?
StriKeVillain
Banned
Do most people with mixed feelings feel as if a Director's Cut could help fix some of the main issues?
You can pretty much understand whole story and have fun with it. IT is a standalone movie imo.
It is not a bad movie and visually it is great and entertainting.
The could maybe fix/clarify some of the holes in the plot and character's motives.
But so much is missing with character development and story progression that I doubt it can make it much more satisfying for me. If I was to rate the film as it stands I'd give it 7 out of 10, but that is basically all for the visuals which is a bit sad.
Didn't really felt the same. Once again the first real encounter didn't seemed funny to me.
But what bothered me was how dumb everyone act in this movie. Especially in this scene...They take no precaution for anything, this is really isn't credible imo.
I also agree that motives of almost everyone is unclear, but it didn't strike me while seeing the movie.
In the end of the day, I believe some things should have been more subtle, and others should have been explained more. A longer film could have helped, but it is possible to do better with 1h50m.
It is still a great movie that I really enjoyed, and I would recommend it to anyone who like SF. I'll probably see it again in BD.
As for the end, well it wasn't funny to me but that may very well be just me.
What's even the point of having her escape only to be crushed a minute later...
True. Sums up her whole time in the film though, one of the strongest characters but actually had no point at all apart from saying father. She was completely wasted as a character.
VistraNorrez
Member
I wasn't clear, it wasn't really fixed by the final draft. Read the Hill and Giler script, the guys who supposedly fixed the dialogue, it's pretty awkward.
But besides that, there seems to be this praise for O'Bannon (who does deserve a lot for Alien) and how Prometheus would've been better if he worked on it. If you think Scott is out of touch with Prometheus, a film made because he wanted it, I don't know how O'Bannon could do any better when it's an idea he never expressed interest in (I could be wrong here).
But clunky dialogue is about as shallow as film criticism gets anyway. It's just a really easy thing to say because there really is no measure. There are lots of reasons why dialogue is written the way it is and then acted the way it is. It's very easy to shoot a scene and and have what might sound strange to one person and not another. But we know for a fact Ridley let's the actors play around with dialogue and characters so they get it right. Ash's dialogue is very clunky, but that's all down to his character and the way Holm played it. It's perfect for the film. Brett, too, has a strange inflection to his speech that still makes me unsure if he is dumb or just playing dumb.
Having not scene Prometheus I don't know what people are really complaining about, but it seems strange to go into this film comparing how a group of Scientists talk and interact to a group of Miners. Prometheus is a ship filled with Ashes, who have their own sort of vernacular from being such an insular group. I'll find out in about a week whether it works for me or not, but I'm not going to go into the film with expectations for or against anything and certainly not the dialogue.
And here is another bad Alien review, from the New York Times, focusing on the characters:
Good god, does that sound awful and like an attack anyone could make about a great many horror films (and could probably be transplanted into any Prometheus review). Yet how many of us now adore these characters in Alien? I know I do and it's because I've seen Alien so many times and embraced all the little quirks the characters have.
Just from my experience with Alien, and how my opinion has evolved from when I first saw it all those years ago, I'm in no way allowing myself to form a full opinion on Prometheus until I've scene it a few times. I'm fully expecting to sour on things that seemed cool at first and to flip on things that rubbed me the wrong way.
Souldriver
Member
I'm agreeing with all the criticisms here. I would want to see it again, but to get my questions answered. And that won't happen.
Some thoughts....
Feel free to correct me, or give your own interpretations on these things. I want to figure out some kind of coherent story, since the movie itself doesn't do it, which is frustrating.
Oh, and lastly: my biggest gripe remains that we don't get a single clue why
I hope the sequel gives us answers to this, or this story will be "mysterious for the sake of being mysterious", in other words: a letdown.
Some thoughts....
- About the "there are other ships" and how it implies all engineers also died on the other ships... I didn't think that was a stretch. I assumed that -since they placed the biological WMD's on a planet not their own for their own safety-, the engineers also pretty much arrived on the planet to pick up their cargo, and then they were greeted by the aliens/virus/whatever. So they walked into a boobytrap, in every ship that's stationed there, and they didn't get to flee in time. Or some did flee in time but with lots of people being left behind, since the ship they came with (like, say, the one we see piercing the sky in the first 5 minutes of the movie) is nowhere to be found.
- About the very first scene of the movie. I actually thought the engineer killing himself on earth is showing how humanity started on earth. You know, the engineer is decomposed till the level of DNA, and humans and engineers share the same DNA. Why the drinking of the black goo though, is a bit confusing. Because we see it as a virus in the movie. But I assume the goo also spawned the snakes, facehuggers and aliens, so I'm just getting it is powerful stuff that regenerates, mutates and develops very fast. Something even the engineers hadn't anticipated.
- About the very first scene of the movie. I actually thought the engineer killing himself on earth is showing how humanity started on earth. You know, the engineer is decomposed till the level of DNA, and humans and engineers share the same DNA. Why the drinking of the black goo though, is a bit confusing. Because we see it as a virus in the movie. But I assume the goo also spawned the snakes, facehuggers and aliens, so I'm just getting it is powerful stuff that regenerates, mutates and develops very fast. Something even the engineers hadn't anticipated.
Feel free to correct me, or give your own interpretations on these things. I want to figure out some kind of coherent story, since the movie itself doesn't do it, which is frustrating.
Oh, and lastly: my biggest gripe remains that we don't get a single clue why
the engineers first create us, and then want to kill us. When the last engineer is awakened, this should be to most powerful scene of the movie, but it is ruined by (1) the old dude being present with his unnecessary story line, and (2) the engineer turning into a raging madman killing every human immediately. I mean, he shouldn't have a tea party with the humans, but having him do or say something mysteriously yet giving us a clue on his intentions, before he starts killing humans, would be much more satisfactory. I actually thought that when shaw started interrupting the old dude and asking existential questions to the engineer, the engineer would divert his attention to her and give her some answer. But that didn't happen. I had hope that maybe when David started talking in the engineers own language, that then perhaps we'd get something decent out of it. But nope: slasher movie ahoy!
Gibson said that. The dip in hype has been corrected.
Ape Gone Insane
Member
That's good to hear. Would you recommend giving Alien a watch now? I plan to watch the films at some stage but I can give Alien a watch now and maybe squeeze in Aliens or I can watch them after Prometheus. Going to see the film in 7 hours.
THE-Pink-Dagger
Member
About your spoiler with the Engineer
I wanted more of that scene too, but I think it's the point, it's ambiguous, because at first, he's very calm, and seems to understand David, but then Weyland starts asking all kinds of things, and then on top of all that, Eli is asking him questions too. I think he pretty much doesnt give a shit, or something else, God knows what David told him, and now that I think of it, David says at one point that everyone would like to see their father dead or something, maybe he told the Engineer to rip his head off and kill Weyland with it But more seriously, he's awoken against his will, if he was the only one left and in cryo sleep, there's a reason for it. Is he supposed to be a guardian of the cargo?! Or is he sleeping, waiting for the arrival of his fellow buddies. Could be logical for him to be pissed off, being awoken when he is supposed to have been resting her for thousands of years. Plus, once he destroys everybody, it's like he's back on course, he goes straight to start the ship and leave, the guy does what he is supposed to do.
But more seriously, he's awoken against his will, if he was the only one left and in cryo sleep, there's a reason for it. Is he supposed to be a guardian of the cargo?! Or is he sleeping, waiting for the arrival of his fellow buddies. Could be logical for him to be pissed off, being awoken when he is supposed to have been resting her for thousands of years. Plus, once he destroys everybody, it's like he's back on course, he goes straight to start the ship and leave, the guy does what he is supposed to do.I think this will be answered in the sequel, and Shaw wonders the exact same thing at the end, she wants to know.
I love this mystery, and am sure I'll pick up on some clues when seeing it again on Sunday.
The Elite
BOSS
This gives me faith.
kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
I saw Prometheus last night and I agree with the criticism: the movie looks absolutely gorgeous, but it falls apart because of the muddled writing. Too many characters without a point, too many events that make little sense, too many characters who act like headless chickens. Ultimately all you'll remember from the movie are the visuals, one extraordinary scene and a sense of disappointment after all the prerelease hype.
BuckRobotron
Member
Picked up Alien and Aliens on bluray as I'd always intended to, but for only $10 each at Best Buy but with the bonus of each having $10 movie cash toward Prometheus to cover a couple of tickets. At this point regarding Prometheus, I'm looking forward to something visually spectacular yet with lowered expectations otherwise. Maybe we'll be pleasantly surprised next week.
Also looking forward to watching the Alien bluray this weekend. Have watched the dvd version frequently over the years and the film really holds up well.
Also looking forward to watching the Alien bluray this weekend. Have watched the dvd version frequently over the years and the film really holds up well.
Kubricks Ghost
Member
Just walked out shaking my head. Disappointed. Visually great, but 3D makes it look dull, so I will watch again in 2D. Some of the dialogue from characters was awful. Fassbender is fantastic and noomi has her moments. Liked parts of the score. 6/10.
I haven't seen the film yet, but I'm pretty sure it's been stated that..
It's a different planet from the one in Aliens. Aliens is LV-426, but the one in Prometheus is LV-223. I dunno if it's explicitly stated, but given that they're similarly named, I can see people being confused as a result.
Angry Fork
Member
You guys really killed my hype, I hope it's just gaf being gaf and I end up loving it anyway.
Just back from it. I'll write my thoughts/loose review on it completely in spoiler text but happy to delete it all or move to a spoiler thread if there is one. For those who don't want to read the review; if Alien is a 4/4 for me, and Aliens is a 3/4, this is most likely a 3. Really enjoyed it. Will address things in the review, but it has a lot of flaws yet it doesn't stop it being very good. It's incredibly ambitious on one had but suffers from Hollywoodization on the other hand. Throws a lot of things together that don't really work completely, but what does is interesting and done very well. I would much rather a blockbuster swing for the fences and not quite hit it out of the park and not even try to do something interesting.
It looks incredible. Every vista, landscape, sweeping planet shot, the set design, monster designs, costumes, the spaceship itself... all fantastic. I think where Scott has improved over his career tenfold is visually (it's part of a bit of criticism that I'll address later on).
I think before the film, I was expecting it to be incredible and then all the reviews came out dulling my hype. I'm glad they did because I enjoyed it more for that. I think a problem for the film is that it is inevitably going to be compared to Alien, and maybe you could argue that if they didn't want this to happen then they should have left out all Alien references. But it's leaning on one of the best films of its genre for inspiration; if you're looking for a monster, why not have one as incredible as the Alien instead of creating a new one? I'm glad that it keeps those links to the old films.
The acting isn't awful for me, it goes from mediocre to great. Fassbender and Elba are the stand outs but they've got completely different methods of acting. Whereas I think Fassbender is the type to study acting and use method and watch a ton of films - which help his performance, he's magnificent - , Elba just has natural charisma and it's great to see him perform it. Rapace starts off pretty shaky but is great in the second half. I thought Theron was good apart from when she initiates the sexy time with Elba because it just seems out of character. Fifield and Millburn were fine, they served their purpose. Marshall-Green wasn't great but he wasn't bad.
I think it's a very Lovecraftian film; the caesarean scene was incredibly tense, and the giant facehugger at the end was well realised. If the Lovecraftian aspect is the origin of the Giger alien then that's good for me, it seems a good link from one iconic monster to another.
I don't necessarily understand the criticism in Empire's review of the Engineers being nothing but giant humanoid figures. It seems pretty obvious that if they engineered us they'd have to me. I think it's a bit of a shame that the intrigue and mystery of the Space Jockey has been given away but for that to be held up as a question that we'd all love to know for years and years, it seemed inevitable it was going to disappoint people. It didn't disappoint me, it seemed natural; as did the fact there is going to be a sequel. Again, those clamouring for answers to questions for ages did get some, and will get some more. I'm glad there's going to be another one.
Negatives for me, starting with the Engineers is that it didn't talk and seemed like a primitive creature moments after David said it was an advanced life form. This is part of the dumbing down for mainstream audiences that I think is a criticism of Scott's work. He's gone from being a hugely ambitious director that is really trying to prove a point on Alien to one that I think was just able to let his visual style steer the movie through. He does a fine job on that side, but I think he could have been tighter with things like this and it's apparent he doesn't care as much. The Engineer shouldn't have been a big dumb fuck, he should have been as intelligent as those he created, even if he did speak in a foreign language.
The music was incredibly overbearing and intrusive at times; it was great in the caesarean scene and that with the Engineer but when every moment of reflection and talking there's a grand score in the background, it's not as impressive. Again I think this is Scott not 'directing' as well as he used to. Alien seems like a film where he wanted control of everything, but in this he's allowed a bombastic conductor and editor to come in and plank music everywhere because I don't think he cares as much.
The script was unnecessary at times; the two co-pilots should have been dialogue-free entities for the main part, being there to relay orders and say affirmative, instead of lending them some sort of faux character development. There's a few moments where they're doing the scans of the DNA and they're saying 'insert the mumbo jama into the falalal' and 'turn up the fastasfafa and recalibrate the momfus' etc etc, and then they cut to the DNA overlapping. It would have been more natural if Ford (who isn't a very good actor btw) done her job and we were shown the DNA overlapping, leaving the audience to work it out for themselves. Two of my favourite parts were the opening sequence with the DNA in the water and David in the pilot chamber and the holograms, because it allowed me to work out what was going on instead of being spoonfed. Whether the extraneous dialogue was Lindelof's or Spaihts' work I don't care, but Ridley should have seen to that, and he would have 30 years ago.
I can't help but compare it to Alien in what it does right and does wrong, because personally it was a joy for me to see that we're going to see another one, that the aliens are just as dangerous as they were 30 years ago, that the mystery of the one on LV-426 is intact, that they're biological weapons but have they been created or are they natural, what the purpose of destroying Earth is... and of course, linking back again to the criticism of them being humanoid beings, what looks like the Alien Queen pops out at the end. Mix of giant humanoid and giant facehugger, giant Alien. Loved that part, but it would be nice to see that be that and that alien just live its life and make its eggs or whatever or die alone on the planet and the Prometheus sequel address the question at the end rather than rely as much on Alien. I think it did a great job of taking its own properties and Alien's to set up what is hopefully a more independant sequel.
I'd definitely agree there was problems with it. I don't really know why the Engineer's head exploded, nor am I clear exactly on the nature of the biological weapons, whether the Alien itself is natural to the planet or created by the Engineers, and whether the Aliens factor into the destruction of Earth by chance or were they part of the plan all along?
I think it's down to Scott that it isn't as good as it could have been because he's become lazy and won't have cared much about anything but the look I think.
It's very ambitious though and I can only commend it for that: I like that the theme of the film is a little about expectations. They even have a conversation about it. That crew goes to the stars to find God. What they find instead is a military base, and what they thought was "God" turns out to be a soldier. This is a disturbing aspect of the film for me - what if we were made for no real purpose other than because someone could? The end of the film is about Shaw still holding onto her faith and going down the rabbit hole. Yes there are questions, but I think there will always be questions.
As for answers the final shot tells you a lot. Space Jockeys and humans share the same DNA. They create humans on Earth, and use the planet as a test site. Much like mice and humans share a lot of similarities. The terraforming comments are also a hint...in Alien the creatures changed their surroundings. Maybe you send that goo down, you create an Alien, it takes out population while also terraforming the place for the Jockeys.
There are clues there, and while I wish the film wasn't quite so open ended, I do think it answers stuff.
I think before the film, I was expecting it to be incredible and then all the reviews came out dulling my hype. I'm glad they did because I enjoyed it more for that. I think a problem for the film is that it is inevitably going to be compared to Alien, and maybe you could argue that if they didn't want this to happen then they should have left out all Alien references. But it's leaning on one of the best films of its genre for inspiration; if you're looking for a monster, why not have one as incredible as the Alien instead of creating a new one? I'm glad that it keeps those links to the old films.
The acting isn't awful for me, it goes from mediocre to great. Fassbender and Elba are the stand outs but they've got completely different methods of acting. Whereas I think Fassbender is the type to study acting and use method and watch a ton of films - which help his performance, he's magnificent - , Elba just has natural charisma and it's great to see him perform it. Rapace starts off pretty shaky but is great in the second half. I thought Theron was good apart from when she initiates the sexy time with Elba because it just seems out of character. Fifield and Millburn were fine, they served their purpose. Marshall-Green wasn't great but he wasn't bad.
I think it's a very Lovecraftian film; the caesarean scene was incredibly tense, and the giant facehugger at the end was well realised. If the Lovecraftian aspect is the origin of the Giger alien then that's good for me, it seems a good link from one iconic monster to another.
I don't necessarily understand the criticism in Empire's review of the Engineers being nothing but giant humanoid figures. It seems pretty obvious that if they engineered us they'd have to me. I think it's a bit of a shame that the intrigue and mystery of the Space Jockey has been given away but for that to be held up as a question that we'd all love to know for years and years, it seemed inevitable it was going to disappoint people. It didn't disappoint me, it seemed natural; as did the fact there is going to be a sequel. Again, those clamouring for answers to questions for ages did get some, and will get some more. I'm glad there's going to be another one.
Negatives for me, starting with the Engineers is that it didn't talk and seemed like a primitive creature moments after David said it was an advanced life form. This is part of the dumbing down for mainstream audiences that I think is a criticism of Scott's work. He's gone from being a hugely ambitious director that is really trying to prove a point on Alien to one that I think was just able to let his visual style steer the movie through. He does a fine job on that side, but I think he could have been tighter with things like this and it's apparent he doesn't care as much. The Engineer shouldn't have been a big dumb fuck, he should have been as intelligent as those he created, even if he did speak in a foreign language.
The music was incredibly overbearing and intrusive at times; it was great in the caesarean scene and that with the Engineer but when every moment of reflection and talking there's a grand score in the background, it's not as impressive. Again I think this is Scott not 'directing' as well as he used to. Alien seems like a film where he wanted control of everything, but in this he's allowed a bombastic conductor and editor to come in and plank music everywhere because I don't think he cares as much.
The script was unnecessary at times; the two co-pilots should have been dialogue-free entities for the main part, being there to relay orders and say affirmative, instead of lending them some sort of faux character development. There's a few moments where they're doing the scans of the DNA and they're saying 'insert the mumbo jama into the falalal' and 'turn up the fastasfafa and recalibrate the momfus' etc etc, and then they cut to the DNA overlapping. It would have been more natural if Ford (who isn't a very good actor btw) done her job and we were shown the DNA overlapping, leaving the audience to work it out for themselves. Two of my favourite parts were the opening sequence with the DNA in the water and David in the pilot chamber and the holograms, because it allowed me to work out what was going on instead of being spoonfed. Whether the extraneous dialogue was Lindelof's or Spaihts' work I don't care, but Ridley should have seen to that, and he would have 30 years ago.
I can't help but compare it to Alien in what it does right and does wrong, because personally it was a joy for me to see that we're going to see another one, that the aliens are just as dangerous as they were 30 years ago, that the mystery of the one on LV-426 is intact, that they're biological weapons but have they been created or are they natural, what the purpose of destroying Earth is... and of course, linking back again to the criticism of them being humanoid beings, what looks like the Alien Queen pops out at the end. Mix of giant humanoid and giant facehugger, giant Alien. Loved that part, but it would be nice to see that be that and that alien just live its life and make its eggs or whatever or die alone on the planet and the Prometheus sequel address the question at the end rather than rely as much on Alien. I think it did a great job of taking its own properties and Alien's to set up what is hopefully a more independant sequel.
I'd definitely agree there was problems with it. I don't really know why the Engineer's head exploded, nor am I clear exactly on the nature of the biological weapons, whether the Alien itself is natural to the planet or created by the Engineers, and whether the Aliens factor into the destruction of Earth by chance or were they part of the plan all along?
I think it's down to Scott that it isn't as good as it could have been because he's become lazy and won't have cared much about anything but the look I think.
It's very ambitious though and I can only commend it for that: I like that the theme of the film is a little about expectations. They even have a conversation about it. That crew goes to the stars to find God. What they find instead is a military base, and what they thought was "God" turns out to be a soldier. This is a disturbing aspect of the film for me - what if we were made for no real purpose other than because someone could? The end of the film is about Shaw still holding onto her faith and going down the rabbit hole. Yes there are questions, but I think there will always be questions.
As for answers the final shot tells you a lot. Space Jockeys and humans share the same DNA. They create humans on Earth, and use the planet as a test site. Much like mice and humans share a lot of similarities. The terraforming comments are also a hint...in Alien the creatures changed their surroundings. Maybe you send that goo down, you create an Alien, it takes out population while also terraforming the place for the Jockeys.
There are clues there, and while I wish the film wasn't quite so open ended, I do think it answers stuff.
maquiladora
Member
9.0/10 from 1,443 users on IMDB (But thats IMDB...)
85% fresh on RT with 27 reviews.
63% on Metacritic but thats only based on 5 reviews.
Hmm well yes it shows his DNA being destroyed and then new cells being formed. Something went wrong with the engineers' plan, and this is the only part of the movie that kind of hints at what might have happened.
It's possible this one engineer had a morality attack, and sacrificed himself?
It's possible this one engineer had a morality attack, and sacrificed himself?
Insane Metal
Gold Member
I'm that it's been holding up nicely.
Rottentomatoes still at 85% with average score at 7.0. From the feedback our fellow gaffers have been bringing us, sounds reasonable.
Well, 85% of approval and a score of 7 sounds good for me.
And after all I don't care so much about the critics, I'm gonna watch it and judge by myself.
Rottentomatoes still at 85% with average score at 7.0. From the feedback our fellow gaffers have been bringing us, sounds reasonable.
Well, 85% of approval and a score of 7 sounds good for me.
And after all I don't care so much about the critics, I'm gonna watch it and judge by myself.
Yup, same here. Most movies that GAF tend to criticise for reasons I don't understand, I end up enjoying the movie anyway.
Question about the entire main plot set-up:
What the hell was the point behind the cave paintings? Why would the Engineers want to invite them to the facility/planet where they created the virus? Aren't the ships supposed to go attack earth? Did they already know they were going to kill off humans those hundreds of thousands of years ago when they left those star maps?
But what was the ship there for? I assumed it dropped him off so he could create the planet? I might be completely wrong and you right, it's certainly an interesting theory.
Got me there. Just a bit of a lazy way of getting them there I think. I suppose it could be argued that they kept in contact at first with early civilisations and lorded over them. I don't think they meant to destroy humans, I'd assume something went wrong. An Alien base under the Earth's surface or something?
Souldriver
Member
That's my take on it as well.
Since the engineers created humans in their own image, using their own DNA, I just read the first sequence as one of the creators coming to the planet earth to create human life. How? By sacrificing himself so that he decomposes in the water, spreading his DNA.
The drinking of the black goo though is kinda confusing, since that is supposed to be "a bad thing" throughout the movie. When the main dude got a drop of that black goo in his drink, he starts to die and show the same symptons as the engineer on earth did. And it turns out Shaw even gets pregnant with an alien....
...So.... the engineer drinks black goo that's infected with the alien virus so that he dies and spreads humanity on earth...? That... doesn't make much sense. Because then aliens would be on earth too, in every human...
Anyway, the black goo really isn't explained well. I assume it had multiple purposes. So it was used to create humanity... but would also be used to kill humanity...? And it mutated and spawned aliens that eventually killed the engineers as well?
My mind is full of fuck.
The drinking of the black goo though is kinda confusing, since that is supposed to be "a bad thing" throughout the movie. When the main dude got a drop of that black goo in his drink, he starts to die and show the same symptons as the engineer on earth did. And it turns out Shaw even gets pregnant with an alien....
...So.... the engineer drinks black goo that's infected with the alien virus so that he dies and spreads humanity on earth...? That... doesn't make much sense. Because then aliens would be on earth too, in every human...
Anyway, the black goo really isn't explained well. I assume it had multiple purposes. So it was used to create humanity... but would also be used to kill humanity...? And it mutated and spawned aliens that eventually killed the engineers as well?
My mind is full of fuck.
It was only Shaw's assumption that it is an invitation. And she was looking for an excuse to go find them anyway. The idea of ancients depicting the origins of the beings they worshipped through cave paintings is straightforward enough.
I just got back from this, and whilst I loved it for the mostpart, I have some niggling questions:
So, the Engineers came to Earth, created humans (which may or may not be depicted in the opening scene), and then fucked off to LV-223 to create/farm/store a shitload of lethal alien goo that they plan on using to kill us (for reasons that aren't made apparent in this movie). And they did this by burying their ships under ground, where they were all killed by their own alien goo? Am I missing something?
Why wasn't the film set on LV-426 so that the Engineer pilot/mysterious pilot from the first film tied in properly? Instead I'm left wondering how an Alien (Xenomorph, the first of which appears at the end of this film, on this planet) can burst from the stomach of an Engineer over on LV-426, as depicted in the first film. Although I did mark out when the pilot chair came out the floor.
Again, if the origins of the Aliens was a giant, human born face hugger raping an Engineer, how was there an image of one on the wall in the goo containment chamber?
Why wasn't the film set on LV-426 so that the Engineer pilot/mysterious pilot from the first film tied in properly? Instead I'm left wondering how an Alien (Xenomorph, the first of which appears at the end of this film, on this planet) can burst from the stomach of an Engineer over on LV-426, as depicted in the first film. Although I did mark out when the pilot chair came out the floor.
Again, if the origins of the Aliens was a giant, human born face hugger raping an Engineer, how was there an image of one on the wall in the goo containment chamber?
Old humans could not have known these stars and planets unless the Engineers told them. Why did the Engineers tell them where they built their WMD facilities? Why did they even have them there in the first place, I thought they still liked humans? Originally I thought, maybe their home planet is in the same constellation, but that can't be right because Shaw and David definitely aren't flying to just a neighbouring planet in the ending.
I can accept the fact that in the past the five planets had been illustrated to the ancients for whatever reason, literally or otherwise
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