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[Gospel]

Lets just say I don't even being a mod today.

I don't it.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

IBM Microprocessors to Power the New Wii U System from Nintendo

ARMONK, N.Y., June 7, 2011 /PRNewswire/ -- IBM (NYSE: IBM) today announced that it will provide the microprocessors that will serve as the heart of the new Wii U™ system from Nintendo. Unveiled today at the E3 trade show, Nintendo plans for its new console to hit store shelves in 2012.

The all-new, Power-based microprocessor will pack some of IBM's most advanced technology into an energy-saving silicon package that will power Nintendo's brand new entertainment experience for consumers worldwide. IBM's unique embedded DRAM, for example, is capable of feeding the multi-core processor large chunks of data to make for a smooth entertainment experience.

IBM plans to produce millions of chips for Nintendo featuring IBM Silicon on Insulator (SOI) technology at 45 nanometers (45 billionths of a meter). The custom-designed chips will be made at IBM's state-of-the-art 300mm semiconductor development and manufacturing facility in East Fishkill, N.Y.

The relationship between IBM and Nintendo dates to May 1999, when IBM was selected to design and manufacture the central microprocessor for the Nintendo GameCube™ system. Since 2006, IBM has shipped more than 90 million chips for Nintendo Wii systems.

"IBM has been a terrific partner for many years. We truly value IBM's commitment to support Nintendo in delivering an entirely new kind of gaming and entertainment experience for consumers around the world," said Genyo Takeda, Senior Managing Director, Integrated Research and Development, at Nintendo Co., Ltd.

"We're very proud to have delivered to Nintendo consistent technology advancements for three generations of entertainment consoles," said Elmer Corbin, director, IBM's custom chip business. "Our relationship with Nintendo underscores our unique position in the industry -- how we work together with clients to help them leverage IBM technology, intellectual property and research to drive innovation into their own core products."

Built on the open, scalable Power Architecture base, IBM custom processors exploit the performance and power advantages of proven silicon-on-insulator (SOI) technology. The inherent advantages of the technology make it a superior choice for performance-driven applications that demand exceptional, power-efficient processing capability – from entertainment consoles to supercomputers.

 

[PigSpeakers]

Oh, Brain_Stew has spoken. Sounds good. I'm satisfied.

 

[Raistlin]

EDRAM on the CPU, not GPU.

Which has what to do with AA?

I think the fact that they got Epic to make a tech demo for the system is rather telling about what kind of architecture is in the WiiU.

Not really, all that says is it most likely supports a shader model roughly equivalent to DX9 (and even then, we don't know that - there weren't a ton of shader effects that I noted but I only saw part of the conference - will watch it tonight).

The bigger concern is moving forward. Obviously this is Nintendo's next generation console. They aren't planning on another one to combat the next PS and Xbox. They will likely be sporting GPU architectures that are found in DX12 parts. If not, certainly DX11. In a few years, DX9 support in games will be going away or at least it will be relegated to half-assed compatibility.

I suspect middleware providers will do their best to keep development relatively easy for supporting both paths, but it would still provide problems ... and certainly some games will simply not be viable at all in terms of a straight on ports.

There are still concerns - but obviously we'll have to wait and see until more info is released.

 

[gofreak]

You're right, it isn't. Sorry. Basically, Power7 is twice as powerful as a Core i7 per transistor at the same clockspeed. We don't know how many transistors this thing has, and we don't know how it's clocked, so that's all I have.

Well, at least that's something to go on.

If you were to be naive and look at core i7 numbers on geekbench around the 3Ghz mark, and normalise them for 3 cores and multiply by 2 (if power7 is twice as fast in the general case)...for 3 cores you might wind up with a geekbench score of 13-14k.

A Cell PPE, similar to Xenon's cores, gets around 1k IIRC on geekbench. Xenon's PPEs are supposed to be slightly better. Multiply by 3, and maybe our 3-core power7 is 4-5x faster?

Cell is a much more difficult point of comparison though. Its power is in the SPUs which for optimised workloads can give you a lot better performance than a PPE.

/very-naive-and-paper-based-but-at-least-its-something

 

[AceBandage]

Not really, all that says is it most likely supports a shader model roughly equivalent to DX9 (and even then, we don't know that - there weren't a ton of shader effects that I noted but I only saw part of the conference - will watch it tonight).

The bigger concern is moving forward. Obviously this is Nintendo's next generation console. They aren't planning on another one to combat the next PS and Xbox. They will likely be sporting GPU architectures that are found in DX12 parts. If not, certainly DX11. In a few years, DX9 support in games will be going away or at least it will be relegated to half-assed compatibility.

I suspect middleware providers will do their best to keep development relatively easy for supporting both paths, but it would still provide problems ... and certainly some games will simply not be viable at all in terms of a straight on ports.

There are still concerns - but obviously we'll have to wait and see until more info is released.

It's using DX10.1 equivalent at the VERY least. No way it's using DX9.

 

[Mr_Brit]

It's disappointing that they're going for 45nm. If the rumours are true about them using an R700 GPU then this means they'll be using 40nm for the GPU which probably means something like a 4850. That coupled with an impressive CPU means the system will be bottlenecked by the GPU quite badly(assuming they put enough RAM and at a high enough speed there).

Had Nintendo launched at 28nm instead, they could have put in a much better GPU, think something more along 6850 power which would be a significant step above a 4850(around 2x as fast).

 

[CassSept]

Wii (volume LxWxH): 75.6 in2
WiiU: (volume LxWxH) 128.5 in2
360 S: (volume LxWxH): 360 in2

360 is also on 45nm. Expecting this to destroy 360/PS3 in power is just silly.

SOMEONE GET THESE COMPUTERS THEY USED TO LAND A MAN ON THE MOON STAT, THEY MUST OUTPUT 4320P GRAPHICS WITH 128AA AT LEAST

 

[antonz]

Yeah at the very least it will have Shaders Model 4.1 while at the most PS4/Xbox720 would have 5.1. Right now PS3/360 have Shaders 3.0

 

[ZealousD]

It's kinda funny that they're touting the Watson connection.

That was more of a software and storage accomplishment than it was a processing one.

 

[Fou-Lu]

I'm seriously impressed that Nintendo is using a Power7, can't wait to hear any info on the GPU.

 

[Raistlin]

It's using DX10.1 equivalent at the VERY least. No way it's using DX9.

How do you know this? Similar statements could have been made for prior Nintendo consoles ... and they turned out wrong.

Regardless, there are some features in DX11 that are pretty important - and without, could make ports pretty problematic. HW-accelerated Tesselation comes to mind. If (when) its usage becomes considered the norm, back-porting will certainly involve a fair amount of work.

Yeah at the very least it will have Shaders Model 4.1 while at the most PS4/Xbox720 would have 5.1. Right now PS3/360 have Shaders 3.0

Certainly I hope so. I'm simply saying history at least brings up some questions. I mean, explain Wii.

 

[mr_nothin]

Thread is moving fast ... who said anything about lots of EDRAM? There's GPU info?

CPU, not GPU...

Whoops
Read it too fast

 

[AceBandage]

How do you know this? Similar statements could have been made for prior Nintendo consoles ... and they turned out wrong.

Regardless, there are some features in DX11 that are pretty important - and without, could make ports pretty problematic. HW-accelerated Tesselation comes to mind. If (when) its usage becomes considered the norm, back-porting will certainly involve a fair amount of work.

I'm basing this on the fact that all signs point to it using a R700 (likely a 4850) which is DX10.1.

 

[antonz]

I'm seriously impressed that Nintendo is using a Power7, can't wait to hear any info on the GPU.

Honestly Nintendo really had no choice if keeping Out of Order execution was a priority to them. Power6 did not offer it and Power5 is far too old.

 

[Mr_Brit]

How do you know this? Similar statements could have been made for prior Nintendo consoles ... and they turned out wrong.

Regardless, there are some features in DX11 that are pretty important - and without, could make ports pretty problematic. HW-accelerated Tesselation comes to mind. If (when) its usage becomes considered the norm, back-porting will certainly involve a fair amount of work.





Certainly I hope so. I'm simply saying history at least brings up some questions. I mean, explain Wii.

They would have to be using a GPU older than the one in 360 for it to be DX9 spec so they're clearly at a minimum at DX10 spec if not DX10.1 or DX11.

 

[Jin34]

It's disappointing that they're going for 45nm. If the rumours are true about them using an R700 GPU then this means they'll be using 40nm for the GPU which probably means something like a 4850. That coupled with an impressive CPU means the system will be bottlenecked by the GPU quite badly(assuming they put enough RAM and at a high enough speed there).

Had Nintendo launched at 28nm instead, they could have put in a much better GPU, think something more along 6850 power which would be a significant step above a 4850(around 2x as fast).

I'm unfamiliar with IBM's fabs, but as far as TSMC goes there is no way they could have gone with 28nm.

 

[Kenka]

technically, we still have no proof that the Wii U will indeed sport a Power 7 chip, right ?

I hope it does of course

I just wonder how much this thing will cost. Also : I'd like to know why Nintendo went the 45nm route while 32nm would make more sense since it is more mainstream now. We can reasonably expect a 32nm process to be less expensive than a 45nm one, right ?

 

[AndresON777]

Sony DF galvanized.

Any chance of an April '12 release?

 

[Raistlin]

I'm basing this on the fact that all signs point to it using a R700 (likely a 4850) which is DX10.1.

Meh. Well, technically ATI did have their own tessellation solution in that series - it just doesn't work under DX11. So I suppose devs could always redesign for that. It might be easier than redesigning a game to not use it at all. Given how underutilized it was, we have to hope ATI actually wraps a decent API around it for the SDK.

 

[Windu]

45nm and not 35nm? weird.

 

[squicken]

EA guy just said Wii U BF3 would be "competitive" with visuals of PS3/360. When pressed further whether that meant better or worse, he said "too early to tell"

That it's not a slam dunk is telling as to the power of the WiiU. Lower your expectations

 

[Net_Wrecker]

EA guy on GTTV Live just said the Wii U is "a next gen console" and "has a lot of horsepower" when talking about bring the Frostbite 2.0 engine to it. Take that as you will.

 

[Mr_Brit]

I'm unfamiliar with IBM's fabs, but as far as TSMC goes there is no way they could have gone with 28nm.

Why? TSMC have already started 28nm production and this thing is coming out in the second half of 2012, that's more than enough time to manufacture millions of 28nm chips. I can't see any reasons for Nintendo not going for 28nm.

 

[AceBandage]

EA guy just said Wii U BF3 would be "competitive" with visuals of PS3/360.

EA guy on GTTV Live just said the Wii U is "a next gen console" and "has a lot of horsepower" when talking about bring the Frostbite 2.0 engine to it. Take that as you will.

Behold. The power of selective hearing. Two completely different answers from the same source.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

It's kinda funny that they're touting the Watson connection.

That was more of a software and storage accomplishment than it was a processing one.

Yeah because Watson is only, you know, A SUPERCOMPUTER..... What a terrible comparison to make for a home console...

 

[Net_Wrecker]

Behold. The power of selective hearing. Two completely different answers from the same source.

He said both.

 

[Foxy Fox 39]

Behold. The power of selective hearing. Two completely different answers from the same source.

This is Neogaf dude.

 

[squicken]

Behold. The power of selective hearing. Two completely different answers from the same source.

You are a committed fan. After he said "next gen console" he said "it's an HD console". By next gen he meant like PS3/360

 

[Prez]

Behold. The power of selective hearing. Two completely different answers from the same source.

You're saying a generational leap wouldn't be competitive with PS360 graphics?

 

[AceBandage]

He said both.

Then he's trolling, because that's a complete contradiction.

 

[Prez]

Then he's trolling, because that's a complete contradiction.

It's really not...

 

[Net_Wrecker]

Then he's trolling, because that's a complete contradiction.

It's obvious Nintendo told devs to keep their mouths shut about specs so maybe he's just having a hard time deciding what to say.

 

[BocoDragon]

It occurs to me that this thing will NOT play Cube games.

 

[Varjet]

EA guy on GTTV Live just said the Wii U is "a next gen console" and "has a lot of horsepower" when talking about bring the Frostbite 2.0 engine to it. Take that as you will.

Is that "next gen" as in "this gen"?

 

[Raistlin]

They would have to be using a GPU older than the one in 360 for it to be DX9 spec so they're clearly at a minimum at DX10 spec if not DX10.1 or DX11.

Disregarding the rumors, what I'm pointing out is who's to say they even go with a traditional PC-based GPU?

Look at Wii, 3DS, etc. Nintendo has a history of fixed-function 3D pipelines. Admittedly UE3 being demoed does point towards at least some level of programmable shaders. I'm simply of the opinion to not assume anything when it comes to Nintendo architectures.

 

[Mr_Brit]

Behold. The power of selective hearing. Two completely different answers from the same source.

I think he means next gen as in PS3/360 next gen.

 

[AceBandage]

It's obvious Nintendo told devs to keep their mouths shut about specs so maybe he's just having a hard time deciding what to say.

That's the only thing I can think of. "Competitive" implies slightly below or on par with.
But "Lots of Horse Power" and "Next gen" implies far above.

I think he means next gen as in PS3/360 next gen.

6 years in and publisher still use this bullshit.
It is not next gen anymore, people.

 

[Mr_Brit]

Disregarding the rumors, what I'm pointing out is who's to say they even go with a traditional PC-based GPU?

Look at Wii, 3DS, etc. Nintendo has a history of fixed-function 3D pipelines. Admittedly UE3 being demoed does point towards at least some level of programmable shaders. I'm simply of the opinion to not assume anything when it comes to Nintendo architectures.

Oh come on, there is like a 99% chance this thing is using a programmable GPU from most likely AMD or it could be nvidia, the chances of anything else are so slim as to be negligible.

 

[Mr_Brit]

That's the only thing I can think of. "Competitive" implies slightly below or on par with.
But "Lots of Horse Power" and "Next gen" implies far above.




6 years in and publisher still use this bullshit.
It is not next gen anymore, people.

He's just trying to sell its graphical power to uninformed people and using 360/PS3 as a bar is easiest and for a long time 360/PS3 were known as the only next gen consoles.

 

[antonz]

Oh come on, there is like a 99% chance this thing is using a programmable GPU from most likely AMD or it could be nvidia, the chances of anything else are so slim as to be negligible.

Yep. The fact Mark Rein is happy on twitter means its a GPU they can use and be happy with

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

This slow trickle blows... When can we reasonably expect a full blown spec sheet?

 

[Net_Wrecker]

Is that "next gen" as in "this gen"?

IDK, he was being kind of vague just like everyone else.

That's the only thing I can think of. "Competitive" implies slightly below or on par with.
But "Lots of Horse Power" and "Next gen" implies far above.


6 years in and publisher still use this bullshit.
It is not next gen anymore, people.

Hard to tell what he meant, but "next Gen" at this point should mean the Wii U/PS4/Xbox 720 generation which SHOULD be more powerful than what we have now.

 

[AceBandage]

This slow trickle blows... When can we reasonably expect a full blown spec sheet?

A week after the system launches.

 

[Raistlin]

Oh come on, there is like a 99% chance this thing is using a programmable GPU from most likely AMD or it could be nvidia, the chances of anything else are so slim as to be negligible.

That's what people said about Wii.


Regardless my issue isn't whether it will be programmable, it's what shader model it will be based on. More to the point, what impact that will have on 3rd party developers moving forward. My concern is they will be lttp, and have a GPU that puts them behind ... again, and in some ways repeat the issues they've had with 3rd party support ... again.

 

[Daschysta]

Or... You know EA is still trying to sell the game to the fanbases of the xbox and ps3. It makes not sense for HIM to pimp that one consoles version make the other two obsolete...

 

[obonicus]

If the CPU is indeed a Power7 design then there's no two ways around it, its CPU is a genuine generational leap. Given that, it would be very bizarre if the GPU is not also significant leap forward, the GCN was incredibly well balanced.

C'mon. It being based on POWER7 is almost meaningless in terms of telling us anything about the actual performance. Especially since it'll probably be a custom chip. Faster than what we have, sure, but that's a given so far.

 

[Snakeyes]

If this is truly powered by a POWER7 derivative and a 4850-ish GPU... how come the French rumors said that the system would be "just a notch" above the 360? It should logically be miles above it unless Nintendo gimped the original designs beyond recognition.

 

[Woffls]

It's obvious Nintendo told devs to keep their mouths shut about specs so maybe he's just having a hard time deciding what to say.

This. Everyone I've seen discuss it has been evasive and ambiguous with their responses. I think Nintendo want to keep the discussion away from specifications, and have people just judge the hardware on the visuals it provides.

We can't read too much into this until someone makes a blatant slip, or we get a ton of stuff from the roundtables.

 

[140.85]

When you develop for all consoles like EA does, you try not to step on anyone's toes.