LukasTaves
Member
And didn't they said "this is for the LoL players" or something like that?
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Microsoft Surface Book : A laptop being made - $1499, Oct 26th
- Thread starter wachie
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And didn't they said "this is for the LoL players" or something like that?
http://www.microsoftstore.com/store...-Signature-Edition-Laptop/productID.320751100
What does everyone think...
someone may have full access to a surface book at a microsoft store
https://www.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/3p91kt/microsoft_store_allowed_me_to_sign_in_as_an/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/3p91kt/microsoft_store_allowed_me_to_sign_in_as_an/
I'm an architecture major. None of the work i do on my laptop is made any more efficient from touchscreens or a stylus and the notes i take are mostly drawn via pencil and paper. Touchscreens are still nowhere near the drawing precision afforded by that combo. Mouse and keyboard remains the most efficient input for programs like autocad and revit. So for me, the touchscreen and stylus don't offer good value.
One could argue a normal consumer wouldn't look at the ultrabook segment in general if bang for the buck raw performance is their goal. The category has never been about that. It started with the Sony VAIO as an exercise in cost-no-object miniaturization. Apple later popularized the segment with the MacBook Air by shifting the goal from raw performance in said form-factor to battery life coupled with good performance. That shift was made possible by commodity chipsets from Intel with low TDP but reasonable performance.
As Intel continued to gain ground against ARM in terms of performance per watt, it opened up more and more competition in the segment without completely breaking the bank since a ton of custom processing wasn't necessary. So at this point, differentiation has shifted to mainly being about materials quality, etc. since basically everyone can make similar offerings in terms of chipsets, RAM, SSD, etc. That of course means there still is a high end to the segment though.
Enter the Surface Book. MS is placing this at the top of the segment in cost due to fit and finish, but also because they brought back some of the Sony VAIO energy going custom to eek out the most they can in performance as well as with form-factor, while still maintaining battery life. Given the performance for the price, it appears that they are clearly taking less margin than Apple given how it compares with similar MacBooks.
So while the Surface Book may not be the best bang for the buck in the segment as a whole, it is when comparing Apples to Apples (no pun intended). It betters its direct peers. Of course quite obviously most people aren't looking to that portion of the segment when buying. It's not meant to cater to everyone ... it is quite obviously a luxury device in terms of fit and finish. But it is also the most performant of those devices.
And this isn't sold as a gaming device either. It is meant for the same audience as the MacBook Pros ... but looks to offer better performance for the price. For the people that actually utilize their MacBook Pros for production, that certainly can be a selling point.
For the MacBook Pro users that only purchase it because it is a 'premium' device in general, obviously that differentiation won't be a deciding factor.
None at this size / weight / battery life. The fact they went with a custom GPU makes it obvious they weren't skimping, just the opposite. They are striving for the best performance while maintaining their form factor requirements.
neogaffer1
Banned
i currently have a 765M, i do modern games just fine.
dampflokfreund
Banned
According to reddit users (https://www.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/3p4ht6/analysis_of_surface_book_gpu/)
these are the specs of the GPU:
384 pipelines, 40GB/s bus width, 64bit bus, 954Mhz core clock
extremly weak and dissappointing if you ask me. 64 Bit Bus and 384 pipelines is a no-go, and yes even for that small form factor.
There is only one thing that has to be cooled in the basement, there should be place for atleast an 960M. My Ultrabook (799 in 2014) which is also extremly thin has an 850M and its much stronger. That's just sad.
For me, the Surface Book died.
these are the specs of the GPU:
384 pipelines, 40GB/s bus width, 64bit bus, 954Mhz core clock
extremly weak and dissappointing if you ask me. 64 Bit Bus and 384 pipelines is a no-go, and yes even for that small form factor.
There is only one thing that has to be cooled in the basement, there should be place for atleast an 960M. My Ultrabook (799 in 2014) which is also extremly thin has an 850M and its much stronger. That's just sad.
For me, the Surface Book died.
neogaffer1
Banned
have you used a touchscreen with a digitizer for a stylus? as somone who has used one, it's a huge gamechanger. i'm not talking about those terrible stylii for the iPad and the like, i'm talking about the active stylii that work alongside a pen and touch digitizer in the touchscreen itself.
old, see further up this page
I have, and it's still nowhere near as precise or easy to use as good old pencil and paper. It's a whole different skill set. I'm interested in it as a method, but it's not a priority. Nor would it be as useful to me as honing my mechanical drawing competency. Taking notes using a digitizer would also not benefit my handwriting. There's a disconnect from the feel of a pen on a screen versus the friction of graphite on paper.
neogaffer1
Banned
i guess we'd have to just diagree then. i hate having to carry around notebook and pencils--i'm always running out of lead, they take up room in my backpack, etc, and one of the joys in high school was having a convertible tablet that had pen and touch (even if that tablet was a pos). And it just has more functionality too--when I need to insert something into previously taken notes, I can't do that with pen and paper, at least not neatly. With OneNote, I can just use one of the many tools it has to create space where there wasn't before. When the prof makes a diagram or graph on the board, I have to quickly sketch it out on paper and it ends up looking real bad. With OneNote, I can take a pic with my phone and just insert it into my document, or I can even just find another version of the picture on Google and paste it in on the fly.When I'm given a handout to markup in class, I'd have to hope that I don't lose the sheet I'm writing on or that when I put it in my backpack it falls out of a folder or the notebook I've tucked it in and gets all crumpled up. With OneNote,
it's always there for me in the cloud. I understand you may not find a pen and touch digitizer too important for your use, but I'm someone who regrets everyday not having it in my current laptop, and I've convinced quite a few other people on how useful this stuff is.
How are you measuring that? The dGPU model is more expensive than the 13" MBP. You're getting better GPU performance yes, but you're also paying for it.
neogaffer1
Banned
the dGPU model is $600 cheaper than the 15" rMBP with dGPU, which is about where you'd expect a 13" rMBP with dGPU to be price wise, if it existed.
In addition to a 45W, quad core i7 and a faster GPU, the 15" MBP with a dGPU has 16GB of RAM and a 512GB SSD. Not really a fair comparison in terms of price.
One year old iPad, actually.
Zantetsuken
Member
The price is such a big hurdle for me, otherwise I would jump all over it. It would be great to have for school.
What improvement is the Pascal architecture supposed to bring?
I'm going to wait for the Euler processors, or perhaps the Noether series, myself.
Which SB comes with an Iris? The only Surface model I see with it is the i7 version of the SP4.
It doesn't, which is a shame. Maybe second gen they'll include them.
EatinOlives
Member
Went to the MS store today to demo the Surface Book...aaaand it's not there. I ask someone and they're like "yeah we have 1 demo unit and it's in the back while we do maintenance on it". I'm thinking really? MS ships ONE per store? And it needs "'maintenance"? While I go look at the Pro 4 at least five more people come into the store, ask to see the Book, and get turned away. I come back nearly 2 hours later, about 20 minutes to close, and they're still like "still not ready lol whoops".
What the fuck, Microsoft. You claim to compete with the MacBook Pro and then you send ONE unit per store, then shoo the weekend crowd away because it's so unstable you have to do maintenance/updates for hours? Get your shit together guys, you can't afford to be this sloppy.
What the fuck, Microsoft. You claim to compete with the MacBook Pro and then you send ONE unit per store, then shoo the weekend crowd away because it's so unstable you have to do maintenance/updates for hours? Get your shit together guys, you can't afford to be this sloppy.
neogaffer1
Banned
the thing doesn't come out for over a week? plus the one near me isn't getting them until wednesday, so they're still sending them out.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
I'm almost certain they will. the gains are going to be significant. Not just im power but in reduced temps.
Secondly, I'm almost confident that there will be a 15-inch Surfacebook. And then we can talk 960m-level performance. Which will be a lot more in 12-24 months.
Guys need to chill. This is a first gen product. Lay low for a generation or two. Let the product do its thing, get its feet wet and then everything will be great.
biggersmaller
Banned
Played around with the Surface Book at the Microsoft Store today. The adding/removing of the tablet from the keyboard base is a cool process, and all the mechanics making it work seemed very solid. The magnesium build materials feel cheaper than expected - though that just may be a matter of personal preference towards heavier metals. Overall it's a cool design, though the gap and overall thickness of the device is not ideal.
As someone who values how a laptop looks sitting on the coffee table over raw performance, I would not choose this over an MacBook Air, but I would never talk anyone out of buying one.
As someone who values how a laptop looks sitting on the coffee table over raw performance, I would not choose this over an MacBook Air, but I would never talk anyone out of buying one.
It would seem our note taking styles differ in the extreme. A digitizer would look vastly different using the same motions.
Back to the laptop, I'll agree it's a great all-in-one solution, but maintain it doesn't target people who have power or gaming as one of their higher priorities. A console gamer looking to get into PC gaming would get an incredible desktop setup that is well future proofed for the price of the Surface Book.
EatinOlives
Member
It's just not a good look to advertise that they have the Surface Book for demoing, then you come in and they're all "jk it's in the back you can't see it because reasons". That doesn't do anything to dispel the "Microsoft can't compete with ultra sleek and fashionable tech" mentality a good portion of the mainstream holds (I don't hold it because I have an SP2 and love it to death, just speaking in general terms). They shout from the rooftops it's ultra sleek and modern but then they turn around and go "wait wait gimme a few hours it's acting up". I mean I'll demo it whenever, not the end of the world, but if they want to compete in the space they need to bring their A game top to bottom.
I'd rather they all wait until the Book launches to ensure demo units are 1) plentiful 2) up and running when they say they're up and running.
Haha dude your notetaking style is easily accommodated since the first Surface Pro and previous high quality digitizer equipped devices. You need to try one out for a decent period of time, it's no gimmick.
None of what you're doing would be troubled by an active digitizer. If you're basing your experience off of what people are trying to do with their iPads that don't have an active digitizer, then it's totally inaccurate.
not really. with the right software you can get realistic looking and feeling strokes.
done in manga studio 5.
I have a Note 3 with an S-pen that I've been fooling around with for quite some time. It's a neat experience, but doesn't replace the fidelity of pencil/paper especially during lectures that go at a pretty fast pace.
quoting since it was at the bottom of the page
PSY・S;182146029 said:not really. with the right software you can get realistic looking and feeling strokes.
done in manga studio 5.
Thanks for the Samsung S pen example, but keep in mind that's with the tiny not ergonomic stylus, and it's a phone.
The whole point of the Sp4 is that with the advances made and the new pen nibs, the feeling of friction is much better. Go to a store and try it.
Also of course it's not going to literally replicate how a pencil feels on paper, but you adapt and realize there's no degradation, and you gain so much convenience, and save paper.
EDIT: an example of another advantage is quickly inserting geometrically perfect shapes like circles/lines for technical drawing if you don't need to rush and do it manually. Again, you need time to get used it to it.
Really can't judge it by the S pen. Had a SP1, now SP3, can't wait to try the SP4 inking experience and see how it's improved. Having all notes in OneNote is amazing as a student, more people need to get on the digital pen bandwagon, especially students.
I just had a professor earlier this quarter insist we handwrite notes and not just type on our computers because studies show that with handwriting you learn better, which for the record I agree with, so I told her I could handwrite digitally and she was cool with it. Meanwhile everyone stuffed away their Macs/laptops and had to go with paper.
Taking notes on the Surface Pro is better than notebook paper:
- Page sizes are unlimited.
- Switch colors and stroke sizes in seconds.
- Create lines and shapes for accurate graphs.
- Stroke erasing is far quicker (and absolute) compared to standard erasing on paper.
- Undo and redo.
- Copy and paste strokes.
The only drawback was that I could get carried away with using a single page, and would have a gigantic page of notes that went all over, which had more to do with my organization during that particular lecture than anything.
Having said that, I am a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to writing, and the SP3 has this weird jitter that irritates me beyond reason. I tested the SP4 at the MS store and had the same issue, but it seems most don't mind it.
Alright, I'll try it out this week at a Best Buy. I'll report back with impressions. Regardless of how well it impresses me though, I'll always choose mechanical over digital notes. My major demands it. Were I in almost anything else, like business or chemistry or engineering, the digitizer would be an absolute godsend.
PSY・S;182094651 said:
That guy delivered, somewhat.
Results here:
http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/442289
Results show only the integrated GPU used?
neogaffer1
Banned
might be due to nvidia optimus. way it works it makes most applications think you only have the integrated graphics and not a dedicated GPU.
edit: yeah i ran it on my machine and it skipped over my dGPU because of optimus
Honestly, I have such a bad experience with that shit
I honestly shouldn't have to wait for reviews and user impressions before thinking if I want this device or not. Obviously MS were keeping mom on the dGPU for a reason
Plus you automatically have your notes in an easily stored, easily distributed, clean digital form.
One of the reasons I want a Surface Book is to be able to easily write/draw stuff in class I can hand to my students afterwards. I have sometimes taken photos of the whiteboard after writing to it, but it takes concentration to remember to take them, and extra work to find the photos afterward, label and post them somewhere.
I currently have a Macbook Air 13" (i5/8GB/256GB) from 2 years ago. I'm a s student so I take notes with it, but I also work on heavy photo-video editing (Adobe softwares, sometimes Final Cut) and play some video games. It does the job but I feel limited. I think I'll change, or at least buy another laptop next year, for faster editing-rendering and to play games. I was looking into the MBPR 13" but the difference isn't that big compared to a MBA. The 15" seems to fit better my needs, especially the high-end model. The bigger screen is a +, even if I have an external monitor when I'm at home. But the Surfacebook is interesting too. I don't own a tablet or anything but a touchscreen that can do tablet could be interesting. I don't really like Windows though, I don't use Microsoft products (other than my pro email but that wasn't my choice). Their support is good on iOS (I have an iPhone) but I feel like at home with OS X and its ergonomics.
The MBPR are at the middle-end of their cycle and Microsoft seems to be ahead of Apple in terms of innovation, so I don't think we'll see a big improvement to the MBPR until 2 years.
TD;LR : Next year I wonder if the hardware capacities of the SurfaceBook will make me change my MacbookAir (and most importantly OS X) for a Microsoft product rather than a MacbookPro 15"/13",
The MBPR are at the middle-end of their cycle and Microsoft seems to be ahead of Apple in terms of innovation, so I don't think we'll see a big improvement to the MBPR until 2 years.
TD;LR : Next year I wonder if the hardware capacities of the SurfaceBook will make me change my MacbookAir (and most importantly OS X) for a Microsoft product rather than a MacbookPro 15"/13",
mili2110
Member
I have the same MBA 13" and a Desktop PC with Windows 10. I kind of like it more than OS X(El Captian) and I've been a Mac User for almost 10 years. But I can't tell you how Windows 10 is on a Laptop, since Trackpads on Windows Laptops have usually been garbage.
dampflokfreund
Banned
I benchmarked my Ultrabook (799€, 2014) too for comparison:
http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/442993
Why the hell is the CPU in my book better? It's older and the Surface Book one has higher clock speed.
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