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[JesseEwiak]

You guys realize you are arguing against the policies that formed the backbone of the Democratic party pre-1990s right? Back to 1910s at least. This is what people mean when they say that Regan shifted the whole country to the right in the eighties . And this is also supposed to be one of its core principles today . It is fact that the middle class is shrinking. It is fact that wages in the US are falling. And this isn't about automation. It has been shown time and time again that as technology takes away jobs through automation it also creates them. This is about globalization.

Bad economic policies shouldn't be part of Democratic policy, no matter how long they've been part of the party (and even that is overstating it - there's always been a strong free trade faction within the DNC and trade liberalization has been going on since the end of World War II.

Look, I'm not saying remove all barriers and don't put any pressure on large multinational companies. But, I'm saying that no, manufacturing jobs aren't coming back even if Donald Trump or Bernie Sanders wins, starts a trade war with China, and he gets a supermajority in Congress.

Globalization was inevitable. What we need to help the middle class in the US is protect workers in these new service jobs, not look back to the 1950's. A cashier or a call center worker can be a well paid job with benefits just as an assembly line workers was in 1960.

 

[shadowfall]

Sanders is such a better candidate for this GE. DNC is comically and stubbornly supporting the weaker candidate no matter what, it's sad

I like Sanders but if people voted for Hillary in larger numbers then she is candidate irrespective of how polls might be advantageous to Sanders presidency. Looks like we are going to have a close election this year.

 

[LizardKing]

I can't talk about JesseEwiak but I fully understand that this is globalization.
The greatest boogeyman instigating people to vote for BS policies.
Not everything is great with globalization but it's not the great destroyer that comes with the doom of all nations.
And the Democrats pre-1990s can be wrong too, they weren't gods even back then.

I'm not saying they were gods and you are certainly entitled to disagree with them. I just don't think it would be a popular liberal position as it is not the "liberal" position to take. To see Democrats arguing this way is certainly an interesting shift.

Bad economic policies shouldn't be part of Democratic policy, no matter how long they've been part of the party (and even that is overstating it - there's always been a strong free trade faction within the DNC and trade liberalization has been going on since the end of World War II.

Look, I'm not saying remove all barriers and don't put any pressure on large multinational companies. But, I'm saying that no, manufacturing jobs aren't coming back even if Donald Trump or Bernie Sanders wins, starts a trade war with China, and he gets a supermajority in Congress.

Globalization was inevitable. What we need to help the middle class in the US is protect workers in these new service jobs, not look back to the 1950's. A cashier or a call center worker can be a well paid job with benefits just as an assembly line workers was in 1960.

I'm not only talking about those manufacturing jobs but I'm also talking about the service industry jobs. There aren't any jobs that are really safe from globalization. Why shouldn't Ford start engineering their cars in India? Call centers are already moving there. Other countries will get better at having a more skilled Workforce to do these jobs. It started with low skill positions but there's no reason it can't spread just about everywhere else.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

Hillary is bound to pick up at least some Bernie supporters as the time goes by. Of course the Bernie or bust movement is still real.

 

[ivysaur12]

You misunderstand. I know what he said during his announcement speech. I was referring to when someone said he didn't want black people counting his money as proof he was racist. That quote was 1991 I believe.

That's what I was taking about when asked why I brought up Hillary being anti gay marriage at one point.

Of course I know Trump has said some really downright nasty things, like killing the families of terrorists.

I just didn't view the thought of sending illegals back as being racist.

Outside of that, yeah I could see some things being so, but initially my concern was whether or not it had much to do with his idea on building a wall to keep illegals out.

I work with tons of republicans. Believe me, I've heard my fair share of nasty comments and not just Trump related. Many people just have a very negative view on things and I'm not sure yet if Trump is truly one of those people or if he is only playing to that crowd to get the nom.

I also see him very unrepublican like things though, like praise planned parenthood, LGBT bathroom comments, universal healthcare, etc...
He confuses me.

He says universal healthcare is good. Then says that we should repeal Obamacare. He says PP. Says that woman should get punished for abortions. Walks it back. Then kinda doesn't.

It doesn't matter if he's "just playing to a crowd". He's saying these awful things, contradicting himself to a point where we have no idea what he actually believes besides a penchant for bravado, hyper masculine bullshit, and xenophobia and racism.

 

[Mael]

I'm not saying they were gods and you are certainly entitled to disagree with them. I just don't think it would be a popular liberal position as it is not the "liberal" position to take. To see Democrats arguing this way is certainly an interesting shift.

Fuck the liberal moniker, it means jack shit in political discourse anyway.
I've seen so many shitty policies uttered with the justification of globalization I would probably be richer than Bill Gates if I got 1penny for every time I heard about them.
It's not my fault I'm allergic to BS policies.

 

[Euphoria14]

No, I did not. Post where I said anything of the sort. Once again, here is what I said:

"Saying almost all the illegal immigrants are rapists and killers is fucking racist."

No use of the word hispanic. And I explicitly said "almost all" instead of "all."

Maybe you're confusing me with another poster. Substantiate your claim about what I supposedly said.




Why is she obligated to defend the women? Why can't she make her own choice? I don't know what really happened, few do. I mean, we know he cheated on her but lots of women stay with their man (and visa versa) after cheating. Why are we attacking Hillary for this? It's her choice. It's her private life. Who fucking knows why she stayed. Even if it was for political reasons it's because the country is too sexist to support her for leaving him!!!

Damn if you do, damn if you don't. This is what women, minorities, etc have to put up with all the time. We need to not think this way.




Everyone has inconsistencies. Everyone changes their minds over time. That's fine. What's not fie is using racist rhetoric.

Trump's indicated very dangerous things. Besides language towards Hispanics, he called for the Muslim ban (also bigoted) and even talked about a database for Muslims. He also espouses sexist rhetoric for decades. He also makes fun of disabled people. He's also said he wants to restrict 1st Amendment Rights for the press. He wants to bully people that disagree with him.

And all this is before really commenting on his disastrous ideas, when he actually claims to have some.

Trump isn't a bigot because I want Hillary to win. He's a bigot because he's a fucking bigot. Let's leave it at that, shall we?



What I think is, as a Bernie supporter, you might be upset about Hilary. Which is fine. But you're using that to project onto Trump to tear Hillary down.

No one says you have to like Hillary or even vote for her. Well, I don't advocate such. But don't come in here with false equivalencies between her and Trump and not expect to have reality put in front of you. Yes, they're both flawed candidates and yeah I'm sure many people want different choices. But that doesn't detract from who Trump is.

Trump has a long line of bigoted comments. You want to attack Hillary related to Sanders, then do so by arguing real things. Don't try to make Trump look better for the sake of hurting Hillary. It's unnecessary.

My big fault is linking illegals with Hispanics because his message is regards to Mexico. Better way to phrase would be to say you said Trump said almost all Mexican illegal immigrants were bad people, which is what people heard when he made his announcement speech.

I also acknowledge Trump has said some terrible things. I've learned some new things in this thread, which is what I hope continues to happen as the election draws nearer.

What am I not though is upset Hillary beat Bernie. The American people went out to vote and made their choice and she is the one who looks to be that choice. I can't be upset with that because that is how our system is meant to work, just as if Bernie won I would hope Hillary supporters wouldn't be angry.

 

[JesseEwiak]

I'm not only talking about those manufacturing jobs but I'm also talking about the service industry jobs. There aren't any jobs that are really safe from globalization. Why shouldn't Ford start engineering their cars in India? It started with low skill positions but there's no reason it can't spread everywhere else.

Sure, and when that begins to kick in, we can start thinking about a UBI instead of telling people in the 3rd World they should live in poverty forever because we got there first. The fact we face a future where many people won't have to work is a positive, not a negative.

 

[Euphoria14]

He says universal healthcare is good. Then says that we should repeal Obamacare. He says PP. Says that woman should get punished for abortions. Walks it back. Then kinda doesn't.

It doesn't matter if he's "just playing to a crowd". He's saying these awful things, contradicting himself to a point where we have no idea what he actually believes besides a penchant for bravado, hyper masculine bullshit, and xenophobia and racism.

Which is why he confuses me. I can't really tell what he really is.

I wonder if he says something and then feels he has to backtrack or lose support from the republican base or if his backtrack is his true view.

 

[ivysaur12]

Which is why he confuses me. I can't really tell what he really is.

I wonder if he says something and then feels he has to backtrack or lose support from the republican base or if his backtrack is his true view.

Then there's no point in trusting anything he says because nothing matters to him!

 

[Black Mamba]

My big fault is linking illegals with Hispanics because his message is regards to Mexico. Better way to phrase would be to say you said Trump said almost all Mexican illegal immigrants were bad people, which is what people heard when he made his announcement speech.

I also acknowledge Trump has said some terrible things. I've learned some new things in this thread, which is what I hope continues to happen as the election draws nearer.

What am I not though is upset Hillary beat Bernie. The American people went out to vote and made their choice and she is the one who looks to be that choice. I can't be upset with that because that is how our system is meant to work, just as if Bernie won I would hope Hillary supporters wouldn't be angry.

Fair enough. For the record, I would vote Sanders 100 out of 100 times over Trump.

I'd be fine if Bernie won. I don't agree with him as much and I think he has more glaring problems in terms of policy, but any qualms I have with him and any known Democrat candidate is consumed by Trump.

I personally think Trump is a bigoted buffoon incapable of understanding economic or foreign policy, incapable of understanding how government even works, and basically has 1 area of expertise due to the good fortune of being the son of someone who was an expert in said field (real estate).

We would be electing a clown.

 

[Nibiru]

Explain them away is a fun term for explaining why a current outlier poll might be an outlier. It's also fun to imagine that Trump's poll numbers will go up! For reasons?

I just think that his primary race was much tougher than Hillary's in that his own party threw everything and the kitchen sink at him while Bernie didn't even want to talk about the emails. I think she is in for a rough go vs Trump. Nothing she throws at him will come close to what he has endured vs the GoP establishment.

People talk about Hillary being in the public eye for years and being attacked for years but most people don't follow the news and haven't heard or cared about most of it. This all changes during an election and people start paying attention. He will hit her with everything no hold barred and the now attentive public will being hearing much of that stuff for the first time because Bernie was pretty nice for the most part.

Just my thoughts. Obviously none of us know anything for sure.

 

[Euphoria14]

Then there's no point in trusting anything he says because nothing matters to him!

Yes, understood, but he is also a man who works and doesn't take time off, so if he truly does intend to try and make changes to the economy, which honestly is my biggest concern, I would think he could do well? All racist garbage aside. Just strictly economics.

I just don't know where I stand yet to be honest. I want people to make more per hour and such, but how do you do that when we keep corporate tax rates so high?

I just feel like if you raise wages and keep taxes high, jobs will just continue to leave.

 

[LizardKing]

Sure, and when that begins to kick in, we can start thinking about a UBI instead of telling people in the 3rd World they should live in poverty forever because we got there first. The fact we face a future where many people won't have to work is a positive, not a negative.

Yeah sorry but I'm just not generous enough to give up my job or yours to someone in a third world country just because they are poor and I'm not. That's how I become poor while their not. Not that I want them to be poor but I'm not about to help them out of poverty at expense of my own quality of life. I don't care who got there first.

 

[tbm24]

My big fault is linking illegals with Hispanics because his message is regards to Mexico. Better way to phrase would be to say you said Trump said almost all Mexican illegal immigrants were bad people, which is what people heard when he made his announcement speech.

I also acknowledge Trump has said some terrible things. I've learned some new things in this thread, which is what I hope continues to happen as the election draws nearer.

What am I not though is upset Hillary beat Bernie. The American people went out to vote and made their choice and she is the one who looks to be that choice. I can't be upset with that because that is how our system is meant to work, just as if Bernie won I would hope Hillary supporters wouldn't be angry.

Trump, along with those who resonated with his Mexican comment , could nit differentiate mexicans from the rest of hispanics. His statement indicts us all to the same stereotype. Specifying he only mentioned Mexicans makes no difference .

 

[Euphoria14]

Fair enough. For the record, I would vote Sanders 100 out of 100 times over Trump.

I'd be fine if Bernie won. I don't agree with him as much and I think he has more glaring problems in terms of policy, but any qualms I have with him and any known Democrat candidate is consumed by Trump.

I personally think Trump is a bigoted buffoon incapable of understanding economic or foreign policy, incapable of understanding how government even works, and basically has 1 area of expertise due to the good fortune of being the son of someone who was an expert in said field (real estate).

We would be electing a clown.

What is your view on corporate tax rate? It's something like 37% right?

How does Hillary or Bernie get $15/hour while companies pay insane taxes?

My job is still is still considered small, even though it employs 300 people and it pays 37%. We just started looking to buy from vendors in Mexico because between paying great wages and great benefits, we make little profit.

We work government jobs by the way. Aerospace.

 

[Orbis Tabula]

Yes, understood, but he is also a man who works and doesn't take time off, so if he truly does intend to try and make changes to the economy, which honestly is my biggest concern, I would think he could do well? All racist garbage aside. Just strictly economics.

I just don't know where I stand yet to be honest. I want people to make more per hour and such, but how do you do that when we keep corporate tax rates so high?

I just feel like if you raise wages and keep taxes high, jobs will just continue to leave.

But do you really believe that all we need to fix the economy is "working hard and not taking time off"? Like, do you think the reason we have economic issues is simply no one has tried hard enough to fix them?

 

[Mael]

Yes, understood, but he is also a man who works and doesn't take time off, so if he truly does intend to try and make changes to the economy, which honestly is my biggest concern, I would think he could do well? All racist garbage aside. Just strictly economics.

I just don't know where I stand yet to be honest. I want people to make more per hour and such, but how do you do that when we keep corporate tax rates so high?

I just feel like if you raise wages and keep taxes high, jobs will just continue to leave.

Oh man, have I a luxurious bridge to sell you!
It's the best, biggest, classiest of bridges.

 

[Euphoria14]

But do you really believe that all we need to fix the economy is "working hard and not taking time off"? Like, do you think the reason we have economic issues is simply no one has tried hard enough to fix them?

No, but I think we have way too high corporate tax rates.

 

[Mael]

No, but I think we have way too high corporate tax rates.

then do as the GOP elites tell you to do : Move to a 'better' place.

What is your view on corporate tax rate? It's something like 37% right?

How does Hillary or Bernie get $15/hour while companies pay insane taxes?

My job is still is still considered small, even though it employs 300 people and it pays 37%. We just started looking to buy from vendors in Mexico because between paying great wages and great benefits, we make little profit.

We work government jobs by the way. Aerospace.

You won't be able to work with vendors in Mexico if Trump is president because you'll end up buying stuffs that US companies could do, so considering his positions you should expect to pay higher taxes if you do that.

 

[Euphoria14]

Oh man, have I a luxurious bridge to sell you!
It's the best, biggest, classiest of bridges.

Then please explain how Hillary fixes it.

Okay, you raise wages. Now what?

I see higher wages but reduced hours. Higher wages but still high taxes of 37%.

Doesn't stop companies from leaving the U.S. and sure doesn't entice them to stay.

How does she fix that? This is my issue.

My job is okay for the most part because it runs on government programs but my parents aren't so lucky and neither is my sister.

 

[Euphoria14]

then do as the GOP elites tell you to do : Move to a 'better' place.


You won't be able to work with vendors in Mexico if Trump is president because you'll end up buying stuffs that US companies could do, so considering his positions you should expect to pay higher taxes if you do that.

Is Trump keeping US corporate tax rates at 37%?

If the answer is no then that fixes the issue since my CEO clearly states that as being a big reason for us going to Mexican vendors on some of our programs. Hard to try and grow and start new programs when you pay 37% tax rate.

Wages grow, our subcontractors prices grow.

 

[Black Mamba]

What is your view on corporate tax rate? It's something like 37% right?

How does Hillary or Bernie get $15/hour while companies pay insane taxes?

My job is still is still considered small, even though it employs 300 people and it pays 37%. We just started looking to buy from vendors in Mexico because between paying great wages and great benefits, we make little profit.

We work government jobs by the way. Aerospace.

Our average effective tax rate is 27.1% compared with 27.7% for the other 30 OECD countries, according to CRS. Profitable corporations paid U.S. income taxes amounting to just 12.6% of worldwide income in 2010, according to the Government Accountability Office.

I'm fine with lowering the corporate tax code, which isn't very useful and very few companies actually pay the high tax rates.

But remember, these are taxes on profits so this is after everyone is paid and such. When a company leaves overseas it's not because their taxes are too high. They'd leave even if their taxes were $0. They're looking for cheaper labor mostly to increase their profits.

Hell, if the company is a US based company, they're legally obligated to still pay taxes here.

Of course, decoupling Health Insurance from employers would help.


Also remember that these $15/hr jobs or minimum wage jobs (FWIW I don't support going to $15 everyone right away) are jobs that can't be moved. Their service jobs like a McDonalds register worker. And these companies that have such jobs often make a ton (of course small restaurants are an exception and different rules generally apply).

Anyway, I don't see how this is a pressing issue. Hillary wants to ensure multinational corps pay more taxes. Trump wants to lower it significantly. That's about it.

Obama was willing to lower the rate if the GOP was willing to close tax loopholes. I'm sure Hillary would do the same. That's good enough for me.

 

[Black Mamba]

Corporations are not leaving the US because of taxes.

They're leaving because of the costs of labor which includes the cost of healthcare...

 

[Euphoria14]

I'm fine with lowering the corporate tax code, which isn't very useful and very few companies actually pay the high tax rates.

But remember, these are taxes on profits so this is after everyone is paid and such. When a company leaves overseas it's not because their taxes are too high. They'd leave even if their taxes were $0. They're looking for cheaper labor mostly to increase their profits.

Hell, if the company is a US based company, they're legally obligated to still pay taxes here.

Of course, decoupling Health Insurance from employers would help.


Also remember that these $15/hr jobs or minimum wage jobs (FWIW I don't support going to $15 everyone right away) are jobs that can't be moved. Their service jobs like a McDonalds register worker. And these companies that have such jobs often make a ton (of course small restaurants are an exception and different rules generally apply).

Anyway, I don't see how this is a pressing issue. Hillary wants to ensure multinational corps pay more taxes. Trump wants to lower it significantly. That's about it.

Obama was willing to lower the rate if the GOP was willing to close tax loopholes. I'm sure Hillary would do the same. That's good enough for me.

That's news to me. Wasn't aware he tax was on profits only. That helps a bit.

Still think it would help though if the tax rate dropped since what we pay would help us pay our vendors, which is our current issue. Just got promoted to a position that requires material to come in and seeing cash flow holding it up sucks. Not taking millions either, just $100k or so...

We are a ~$100M/year revenue company if that makes any difference.

 

[Mael]

Then please explain how Hillary fixes it.

Okay, you raise wages. Now what?

I see higher wages but reduced hours. Higher wages but still high taxes of 37%.

Doesn't stop companies from leaving the U.S. and sure doesn't entice them to stay.

How does she fix that? This is my issue.

My job is okay for the most part because it runs on government programs but my parents aren't so lucky and neither is my sister.

I'm not talking about Clinton here.
I'm talking about the GOP and Donald Trump.
I don't believe for 1 second that no one is able to give you answers on Hillary's program though.
I can tell you this however :
You can make incentives that make sure government contracts have more strings attached to them than what is already there.
You post however shows something very important that I don't see often (and I think we had this discussion earlier...) it's a complicated topic that you can't solve with easy answers.
States can already mandate that you don't work with offshore contractors to perform a contract for them.
I'll add that not all companies can survive without outsourcing their operation, they won't be competitive anyway.
To make a metaphor, you're not going to bring back tanneries with tariff or any other shitty policies politicians want to sell you.

Is Trump keeping US corporate tax rates at 37%?

If the answer is no then that fixes the issue since my CEO clearly states that as being a big reason for us going to Mexican vendors on some of our programs. Hard to try and grow and start new programs when you pay 37% tax rate.

Wages grow, our subcontractors prices grow.

Trump doesn't give a shit about corporate tax, he doesn't even have a plan to govern and doesn't want to bother with that until he has won the election.
Considering who he is surrounding himself with I wouldn't rule out an increase in taxes.

 

[btrboyev]

And so are the American people, apparently?

Not really...I don't think ability would be winning if all the primaries were open.

 

[Euphoria14]

I'm not talking about Clinton here.
I'm talking about the GOP and Donald Trump.
I don't believe for 1 second that no one is able to give you answers on Hillary's program though.
I can tell you this however :
You can make incentives that make sure government contracts have more strings attached to them than what is already there.
You post however shows something very important that I don't see often (and I think we had this discussion earlier...) it's a complicated topic that you can't solve with easy answers.
States can already mandate that you don't work with offshore contractors to perform a contract for them.
I'll add that not all companies can survive without outsourcing their operation, they won't be competitive anyway.
To make a metaphor, you're not going to bring back tanneries with tariff or any other shitty policies politicians want to sell you.


Trump doesn't give a shit about corporate tax, he doesn't even have a plan to govern and doesn't want to bother with that until he has won the election.
Considering who he is surrounding himself with I wouldn't rule out an increase in taxes.

I don't believe tariffs will solve our problems either. I'm just trying to figure out, between now and November, who will do best to fix domestic issues here in the U.S.

I personally don't think Obama did a bad job, but I can only go by what I see.

When I started my job and my daughter was born, I paid $38/week for family medical coverage. Since Obamacare it has raised yearly and now I pay $89.50/week. Many will say "that's good now days", but it isn't "good" compared to what it used to cost.

Very little has worked to my benefit in the last 8 years even though my hard work has paid off and I went from living in my parents home to now owning my own home. Yea I make more, but I also pay much more than I used to in 2008.

I just feel as though I could have been so much better off for the amount we now make. I used to think a $88-$100k/year household meant easy living but it really doesn't, not on Long Island.

I live in Sound Beach. That's like the poor area. My roads are thin and rarely paved. It's as though we are a long forgotten town.

 

[And_Gignac]

Sanders is the better candidate. He is well liked and trusted (not FULL ON HATED like Clinton, polls dont lie) and can take votes away from Trump. Democrats are fucking it up badly!

 

[SirClinksAlot]

Sanders is the better candidate. He is well liked and trusted (not FULL ON HATED like Clinton, polls dont lie) and can take votes away from Trump. Democrats are fucking it up badly!

Oh you. Bernie is as establishment as it goes. Rich dude who hasn't accomplished shit. Seriously, he is a rich asshole who hasnt fucking done SHIT.

 

[Redd]

My big fault is linking illegals with Hispanics because his message is regards to Mexico. Better way to phrase would be to say you said Trump said almost all Mexican illegal immigrants were bad people, which is what people heard when he made his announcement speech.

I also acknowledge Trump has said some terrible things. I've learned some new things in this thread, which is what I hope continues to happen as the election draws nearer.

What am I not though is upset Hillary beat Bernie. The American people went out to vote and made their choice and she is the one who looks to be that choice. I can't be upset with that because that is how our system is meant to work, just as if Bernie won I would hope Hillary supporters wouldn't be angry.

I voted Bernie in Virginia. Sad to see him lose but I'm definitely voting Hillary in November because it's either her, Trump and until recently Cruz. Not a hard decision to make.

 

[border]

Sanders is the better candidate. He is well liked and trusted (not FULL ON HATED like Clinton, polls dont lie) and can take votes away from Trump. Democrats are fucking it up badly!

Sad!

 

[Mael]

I don't believe tariffs will solve our problems either. I'm just trying to figure out, between now and November, who will do best to fix domestic issues here in the U.S.

I personally don't think Obama did a bad job, but I can only go by what I see.

When I started my job and my daughter was born, I paid $38/week for family medical coverage. Since Obamacare it has raised yearly and now I pay $89.50/week. Many will say "that's good now days", but it isn't "good" compared to what it used to cost.

Very little has worked to my benefit in the last 8 years even though my hard work has paid off and I went from living in my parents home to now owning my own home. Yea I make more, but I also pay much more than I used to in 2008.

I just feel as though I could have been so much better off for the amount we now make. I used to think a $88-$100k/year household meant easy living but it really doesn't, not on Long Island.

I live in Sound Beach. That's like the poor area. My roads are thin and rarely paved. It's as though we are a long forgotten town.

If we're honest about the current situation, it could have been better if the Dems didn't shit the bed in 2010. But that's water under the bridge, at this point the most critical point is the local elections.
Vote for whoever you want as long as they're not pushing for throwing your job to the river.
I'd say considering your line of work Trump and Sanders are the most likely to put you in a worse position.
1 has no idea what he's doing and the other is running with small government idiots that would cut the program giving you your job like no tomorrow :/
Both are bad for the economy that's for sure.

About the infrastructure, that's on the local levels.
Fire the idiots running the local governments and put people that know their shits.

Spoiler

I know it's actually harder than that but seriously States and lower levels are absurdly shit on infrastructure it's not even funny.

Sanders is the better candidate. He is well liked and trusted (not FULL ON HATED like Clinton, polls dont lie) and can take votes away from Trump. Democrats are fucking it up badly!

Actually Trump is more likely to siphon Sanders voters than the reverse.
They're both running on empty promises, one is however unapologetically open about his BS.

 

[GnawtyDog]

Too early. Conventions haven't even happened.

Trump does have a chance. Hillary is not as strong as she was in 08 in my pov.

 

[johnny956]

Exponentially jacking up the prices of essential goods screws them even worse. You've made things more expensive with no way to offset those price increases.

Look at the tariffs on tires and see how 'well' that worked for the consumer