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[Jonm1010]

Hmm. I always figured that FOX would be the least accurate. I don't think I've cited them for any reason. Ever. And if I wanted to, I always used another pollster to confirm their results.

Thats interesting to me because FoxNews did seem like the driver in what was the largest confirmation(in my mind at least) of the power of echo chambers to actually convince people that falsehoods are genuinely true in their minds. To the point where even those perpetuating the echo chamber falsehoods seemingly believed them to be true based on a reliance on underlying echo chamber information. A reliance on echo chamber falsehoods to make new perceived truths in the echo chamber. Creating this fascinating case study of being able to analyze biases on a national level.

What with many in the Romney camp, FoxNews, conservative media and their panel of conservative experts like Rove that genuinely thought Romney had a decent chance based on their collections of echo chamber "facts" that kept reinforcing themselves and pushing them further down the rabbit hole.

EDIT: Beaten, somewhat.

 

[Havoc2049]

Just realized theres a universe where Trump can win all 3 of FL PA and OH and still lose the election because he loses Utah. Make it happen Mitt

Mormons are about as ultra conservative as you can get. In the booth, I have a feeling even Mitt will be voting for Trump. Mormons don't like Trump, but they sure as hell aren't voting for a liberal Democrat this fall.

 

[Euphoria14]

On trade, he is

At least this election makes it easy to tell which 15 minutes of CNN someone has watched.

And also which people are okay with supporting racist policies because they believe the guy who literally represents nothing but business/wealth is going to somehow help them.

I keep seeing this but don't understand.

Why are his policies racist? Is saying illegals should be sent back to Mexico make him racist?

Honest question because outside of that and the ban on Muslims coming into the country I'm not sure where the racism angle comes from.

He doesn't have issues with people who are here, but rather the ones who are not supposed to be. I personally don't find "if they are here illegally then they should be sent back" as racist. The same would apply if they were white.

 

[Rentahamster]

Rassmussen, Quinnipiac. Eventually there will be a poll that shows data that you don't like, and there won't be anymore reasons left anymore as to why it's not credible.

 

[ivysaur12]

Rassmussen, Quinnipiac. Eventually there will be a poll that shows data that you don't like, and there won't be anymore reasons left anymore as to why it's not credible.

Right, there might be. Maybe Trump will even win. But do you want to talk about the possibility that this poll, as it has throughout the entire primary process, has screens that show a whiter demographic than the actual vote?

 

[Aaron Strife]

I keep seeing this but don't understand.

Why are his policies racist? Is saying illegals should be sent back to Mexico make him racist?

Honest question because outside of that and the ban on Muslims coming into the country I'm not sure where the racism angle comes from.

He doesn't have issues with people who are here, but rather the ones who are not supposed to be.

Trump defended his harsh stance on illegal immigrants by saying they're all rapists and murderers. And some, he assumes, are good people. Most of the GOP holds the stance that illegal immigrants should be deported, Trump gets attention for it because he's the one who laces it all in extremely racist language.

He's also made a number of racist comments both in this campaign and in the past towards... Pretty much every racial minority you can think of. He doesn't want the blacks counting his money, he wishes he had Jews doing it instead. He made fun of Chinese polticians by doing a stereotypical Asian accent (you rike deal?). His idea of appealing to Mexicans is eating a taco bowl.

And yes the Muslim ban is super fucking discriminatory and should not just be ignored. It's technically not a race but you know exactly who he'd be targeting.

He's also made really offensive comments about women and disabled people. Really the only minority group that he seems to be ok with is the LGBT community.

 

[JesseEwiak]

. I personally don't find "if they are here illegally then they should be sent back" as racist. The same would apply if they were white.

Ignoring the fact that there is no legal way for unskilled laborers to get into the United States, Trump only brings up illegal Hispanic workers, not the well known number of illegal Irish working in New York illegally or the lots of illegal Asian's immigrants working in restaurants and in docks all over this country. Weird how that works out.

That's not even getting into the actual racist statements he's made.

 

[Euphoria14]

Trump defended his harsh stance on illegal immigrants by saying they're all rapists and murderers. And some, he assumes, are good people. Most of the GOP holds the stance that illegal immigrants should be deported, Trump gets attention for it because he's the one who laces it all in extremely racist language.

He's also made a number of racist comments both in this campaign and in the past towards... Pretty much every racial minority you can think of. He doesn't want the blacks counting his money, he wishes he had Jews doing it instead. He made fun of Chinese polticians by doing a stereotypical Asian accent (you rike deal?). His idea of appealing to Mexicans is eating a taco bowl.

And yes the Muslim ban is super fucking discriminatory and should not just be ignored. It's technically not a race but you know exactly who he'd be targeting.

As I said I wasn't fully aware. This "doesn't want the blacks counting his money and wishes Jews would do it instead" is news to me. Never heard that one before.

Still, if we go in the past to find these things we can easily go back and find racist remarks Hillary said and also how she did not support gay marriage, etc... Only to flip flop when it gets her votes.

Neither is perfect and likely liars through and through, but only one has a bad history in foreign policy that downright scares me. Trump has the history of being a tireless worker who doesn't take vacations and I couldn't give two shits how he feels personally about people. I just want someone who will do his job and not screw it up. In that regard Hillary has some big blemishes and a no fly zone in Syria is a big red flag for me. She's downright looking for trouble. She is a warhawk.

Wish Bernie had done better.

 

[Rentahamster]

Right, there might be. Maybe Trump will even win. But do you want to talk about the possibility that this poll, as it has throughout the entire primary process, has screens that show a whiter demographic than the actual vote?

Fair or not, that gives me flashbacks to the whole unskewed polls kerfuffle. My point is that if one is serious about thwarting a Trump win in November, one shouldn't assume his loss is a forgone conclusion, and thus view the present through that lens. In general. This is just one thing of many.

 

[Euphoria14]

Ignoring the fact that there is no legal way for unskilled laborers to get into the United States, Trump only brings up illegal Hispanic workers, not the well known number of illegal Irish working in New York illegally or the lots of illegal Asian's immigrants working in restaurants and in docks all over this country. Weird how that works out.

That's not even getting into the actual racist statements he's made.

Why would Trump, or anyone for that matter talk about Irish workers in New York when talking about a border with Mexico?

Irish come from Mexico?

 

[Black Mamba]

Why would Trump, or anyone for that matter talk about Irish workers in New York when talking about a border with Mexico?

Irish come from Mexico?

because we have more illegal immigration from people NOT crossing the Mexican border, perhaps?

 

[excelsiorlef]

Being pro-life and wanting to ban abortion are two separate things.

'Don't like abortions, don't get one'. Has he actually said he would look for justices that would ban abortion?

He called for women who had abortions to be jailed.

He made Ted fucking Cruz look compassionate

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

Only thing I take from the polls is, 15% or so of people havent decided. Which is actually good for trump, as he does the pivot bullshit that ironically shows him to just be another politician, after spending a year of being the "straight talker".

 

[JesseEwiak]

Why would Trump, or anyone for that matter talk about Irish workers in New York when talking about a border with Mexico?

Irish come from Mexico?

Because the issue is supposed to be about how illegal immigration drives down wages and costs taxpayers money, not where those people are coming from.

 

[Punchy4486]

Still, if we go in the past to find these things we can easily go back and find racist remarks Hillary said and also how she did not support gay marriage, etc... Only to flip flop when it gets her votes.

To be fair, Hillary's "flip-flops" on some of these things are over decades and changed along with society. A lot of people had different views on gay marriage twenty years ago.

Most of Donald's flip-flops are within 24 hours, and sometimes he flop-flips back and forth multiple times that week.

 

[Aaron Strife]

As I said I wasn't fully aware. This "doesn't want the blacks counting his money and wishes Jews would do it instead" is news to me. Never heard that one before.

Still, if we go in the past to find these things we can easily go back and find racist remarks Hillary said and also how she did not support gay marriage, etc... Only to flip flop when it gets her votes.

Neither is perfect and likely liars through and through, but only one has a bad history in foreign policy that downright scares me. Trump has the history of being a tireless worker who doesn't take vacations and I couldn't give two shits how he feels personally about people. I just want someone who will do his job and not screw it up. In that regard Hillary has some big blemishes and a no fly zone in Syria is a big red flag for me. She's downright looking for trouble. She is a warhawk.

Wish Bernie had done better.

Hillary supported gay rights up to gay marriage. And then she moved left on that too. Did the 40% of the country that went from opposing gay marriage to supporting it also just do it to pander for votes?

She's also apologized for some of the racially-tinged comments she's made in the past. You think Trump has? Every stupid comment he's ever made he's doubled down on.

Trump is the only one talking about ground wars and increasing the size of the military. Clinton isn't perfect obviously but goddamn do you really have to stretch things to make it seem like Trump is any better, if not significantly worse.

Bernie is not an angel, Hillary is not the devil, and Trump is a xenophobic, sexist racist pile of shit with dangerous policies. "I don't care what he thinks about people" is not a logical stance when that informs much of his platform. You are looking for reasons to hate Hillary while trying to justify that Trump might not be so bad by ignoring everything about him.

 

[thestopsign]

Mormons are about as ultra conservative as you can get. In the booth, I have a feeling even Mitt will be voting for Trump. Mormons don't like Trump, but they sure as hell aren't voting for a liberal Democrat this fall.

This is the most anecdotal thing ever, but the one Mormon family I know (this includes 5 sons of voting age) are all voting for Hillary. The one closest to me in age constantly pleads on Facebook for no one to vote for Trump. They are not as straight laced as most Mormon's possibly. Of course all of them went to BYU though.

 

[ivysaur12]

Fair or not, that gives me flashbacks to the whole unskewed polls kerfuffle. My point is that if one is serious about thwarting a Trump win in November, one shouldn't assume his loss is a forgone conclusion, and thus view the present through that lens. In general. This is just one thing of many.

The whole point of the Unskewed debacle is that the Unskewed guy was trying to say that the polling aggregate was wrong because of voter ID. It was going against the conventional wisdom, saying that Rasmussen was right.

Here, there is a poll that goes against the conventional polling aggregate, and people are pointing out that this is because the poll show shows a whiter electorate than any other polling operation. Maybe the electorate will be whiter, but QPac has also been pretty bad this cycle in the primary, and this is against the general consensus, so I don't think that's a fair comparison at all.

 

[Euphoria14]

because we have more illegal immigration from people NOT crossing the Mexican border, perhaps?

Yes, but you can't use that as a realistic goal during a primary.

People are looking at his stuff as racism when it's just him playing to the crowd. You think his primary focus is "put down all but the white man"? I hope people don't think that.

This thought of "Mexico bringing illegal workers who take Americas jobs" isn't a new thought in the U.S. It made sense for him to use it. It's not the first time the border came up in an election year.

 

[Mael]

We'd have less stuff but it would be quality, American-made stuff.

Seriously though, we can't have our cake and eat it too. We can't keep buying all this cheap stuff forever with no consequence.

That is the most hilarious comment I've seen all day.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Yes, but you can't use that as a realistic goal during a primary.

People are looking at his stuff as racism when it's just him playing to the crowd. You think his primary focus is "put down all but the white man"? I hope people don't think that.

This thought of "Mexico bringing illegal workers who take Americas jobs" isn't a new thought in the U.S. It made sense for him to use it. It's not the first time the border came up in an election year.

Glad you're ok with Trump pandering to racist assholes but not with Hillary moving further left on issues she was already left on.

 

[ivysaur12]

Yes, but you can't use that as a realistic goal during a primary.

People are looking at his stuff as racism when it's just him playing to the crowd. You think his primary focus is "put down all but the white man"? I hope people don't think that.

This thought of "Mexico bringing illegal workers who take Americas jobs" isn't a new thought in the U.S. It made sense for him to use it. It's not the first time the border came up in an election year.

"They're not sending their best people, they're sending their rapists, their murderers" is not saying that these are people taking our jobs, but that you need to be scared of every Mexican person because they're not good people. They're rapists and murderers.

 

[Black Mamba]

Yes, but you can't use that as a realistic goal during a primary.

People are looking at his stuff as racism when it's just him playing to the crowd. You think his primary focus is "put down all but the white man"? I hope people don't think that.

This thought of "Mexico bringing illegal workers who take Americas jobs" isn't a new thought in the U.S. It made sense for him to use it. It's not the first time the border came up in an election year.

Saying almost all the illegal immigrants are rapists and killers is fucking racist.

Full stop.

Don't defend it.

 

[massoluk]

Fair or not, that gives me flashbacks to the whole unskewed polls kerfuffle. My point is that if one is serious about thwarting a Trump win in November, one shouldn't assume his loss is a forgone conclusion, and thus view the present through that lens. In general. This is just one thing of many.

Unskewed poll is actually similar to Quinnipiac this season in a way. Over-representation of certain group compare to actual votes.

 

[Euphoria14]

To be fair, Hillary's "flip-flops" on some of these things are over decades and changed along with society. A lot of people had different views on gay marriage twenty years ago.

Most of Donald's flip-flops are within 24 hours, and sometimes he flop-flips back and forth multiple times that week.

Exactly. They all flip flop. Who knows what their real views are?

They each play to their bases and that's it. Doesnt mean it truly defines them.

 

[Rentahamster]

The whole point of the Unskewed debacle is that the Unskewed guy was trying to say that the polling aggregate was wrong because of voter ID. It was going against the conventional wisdom, saying that Rasmussen was right.

Here, there is a poll that goes against the conventional polling aggregate, and people are pointing out that this is because the poll show shows a whiter electorate than any other polling operation. Maybe the electorate will be whiter, but QPac has also been pretty bad this cycle in the primary, and this is against the general consensus, so I don't think that's a fair comparison at all.

Which is why I already conceded that it probably isn't in my previous post. I'm using it as a foothold for the general point of "don't get cocky kid".

 

[kirblar]

Mormons are about as ultra conservative as you can get. In the booth, I have a feeling even Mitt will be voting for Trump. Mormons don't like Trump, but they sure as hell aren't voting for a liberal Democrat this fall.

Mormons are sensitive to attacks on "the other", because they're considered that by a large number of evangelicals. Of all the parts of the GOP coalition, they "get it" the most.

 

[ivysaur12]

Which is why I already conceded that it probably isn't in my previous post. I'm using it as a foothold for the general point of "don't get cocky kid".

At this point, if feels as if there are more liberals screaming "Don't Be Cocky!" than liberals who are actually cocky.

 

[Euphoria14]

Saying almost all the illegal immigrants are rapists and killers is fucking racist.

Full stop.

Don't defend it.

And Hillary wants to go to war with almost all of the world and wants constant regime changes and placing no fly zones which will only lead to potential war.

Only one of those options puts this country in danger.


Also called black kids super predators and said she does not support gay marriage.

She also defended a man who took advantage of women. I don't care if it was her husband.

She's no saint herself.


Trump is hated for his words. Hillary is hated for her actions.

 

[SirClinksAlot]

Yep. Been saying for months the US left is marching blindly towards doom for no reason than they stubbornly decided their candidate years ago.

Bernie would get trounced by Trump.

 

[JesseEwiak]

And Hillary wants to go to war with almost all of the world and wants constant regime changes and placing no fly zones which will only lead to potential war.

Only one of those options puts this country in danger.


Also called black kids super predators and said she does not support gay marriage.

She also defended a man who took advantage of women. I don't care if it was her husband.

She's no saint herself.

Yup, Hillary is the devil. She's literally basically Hitler, except worse. There's nothing good about her at all.

 

[Mael]

And Hillary wants to go to war with almost all of the world and wants constant regime changes and placing no fly zones which will only lead to potential war.

Only one of those options puts this country in danger.

You could at least namedrop Libya because once again we all know that it's the sole fault of the war general of imperialism Hillary Clinton!

Also called black kids super predators and said she does not support gay marriage.

She also defended a man who took advantage of women. I don't care if it was her husband.

She's no saint herself.

Be careful you nearly called her a thug.

 

[Aaron Strife]

And Hillary wants to go to war with almost all of the world and wants constant regime changes and placing no fly zones which will only lead to potential war.

Only one of those options puts this country in danger.


Also called black kids super predators and said she does not support gay marriage.

She also defended a man who took advantage of women. I don't care if it was her husband.

She's no saint herself.


Trump is hated for his words. Hillary is hated for her actions.

I understand everything now.

 

[Euphoria14]

Yup, Hillary is the devil. She's literally basically Hitler, except worse. There's nothing good about her at all.

Nice job twisting my words.

My point is only that neither candidate is perfect. They both have big flaws.

One viewed as racist. One viewed as a war monger and liar.

 

[Havoc2049]

This is the most anecdotal thing ever, but the one Mormon family I know (this includes 5 sons of voting age) are all voting for Hillary. The one closest to me in age constantly pleads on Facebook for no one to vote for Trump. They are not as straight laced as most Mormon's possibly. Of course all of them went to BYU though.

Mormons voted to the right of Trump in the primaries. For people to think they would do a complete 180 and vote to the left of Trump in a GE is wishful thinking. Mormons are also very politically active and don't sit out elections.

 

[Euphoria14]

You could at least namedrop Libya because once again we all know that it's the sole fault of the war general of imperialism Hillary Clinton!



Be careful you nearly called her a thug.

It's not all her fault, but the things she supported tend to fall on the wrong side of history.

And how did I almost call her a thug? I'm just stating what perceived a flaws are. This is why the two are close in many polls.

 

[JesseEwiak]

Nice job twisting my words.

My point is only that neither candidate is perfect. They both have big flaws.

One viewed as racist. One viewed as a war monger and liar.

She's viewed as that by the right, who thinks any Democrat is illegitimate and by the far left, who think every Democrat is a corporate shill who is standing in the way of the glorious revolution.

Trump actually is a racist. Hillary is a hawkish liberal.

 

[Cipherr]

And how did I almost call her a thug? I'm just stating what perceived a flaws are. This is why the two are close in many polls.

They aren't close in many polls.

 

[Euphoria14]

I understand everything now.

So explain. Please.

Ive got this feeling I am about to be hit with a label of some sort.

 

[ivysaur12]

Bernie Sanders supported a traditional marriage proclamation as Mayor of Burlington. He said he wouldn't support an LGBT nondiscrimination ordinance. He told the Vermont legislator not to pass marriage equality in 2006 because it was too divisive.

It sucks to always be on the wrong side of history!

 

[Aaron Strife]

Nice job twisting my words.

My point is only that neither candidate is perfect. They both have big flaws.

One viewed as racist. One viewed as a war monger and liar.

Was Bernie a liar when he told the Vermont legislature not to legalize gay marriage only to support it three years later? Or his constant twisting into knots on gun control.

Was he a warmonger when he supported regime change in Libya?

 

[JesseEwiak]

So explain. Please.

Ive got this feeling I am about to be hit with a label of some sort.

How do you feel about political correctness?

 

[Euphoria14]

They aren't close in many polls.

OP shows polls with close results does it not?

 

[ivysaur12]

OP shows polls with close results does it not?

That's why we using polling aggregates, where Clinton holds a 6-8 point lead nationally.

 

[Mael]

It's not all her fault, but the things she supported tend to fall on the wrong side of history.

tutututut don't go blaming anyone else for Libya it's clearly her (and only her) fault.
If it wasn't for her Libya would not be in the quagmire it is so really the blame goes fully on her.
Don't try to walk back on that, it's her fault and that's it.

And how did I almost call her a thug? I'm just stating what perceived a flaws are. This is why the two are close in many polls.

There was so much dog whistle in your post I went to the usual conclusion.

 

[Euphoria14]

That's why we using polling aggregates, where Clinton holds a 6-8 point lead nationally.

And what's the margin of error?

 

[Rentahamster]

At this point, if feels as if there are more liberals screaming "Don't Be Cocky!" than liberals who are actually cocky.

Maybe. I'm just speaking anecdotally here.

But anectodally speaking, I'm seeing too much of "we got this in the bag!", and not enough "hold on, we might have a problem here".

 

[ivysaur12]

And what's the margin of error?

Polling aggregates don't have margins of errors because they're aggregates, not individual polls. That's not how margins of error work.

Maybe. I'm just speaking anecdotally here.

But anectodally speaking, I'm seeing too much of "we got this in the bag!", and not enough "hold on, we might have a problem here".

You can simultaneously believe that Trump needs to be taken VERY seriously while also believe that Hillary is the heavy favorite at this point in the election. Because both of those things are true.

 

[Mael]

Was he a warmonger when he supported regime change in Libya?

Don't you fucking put that on anyone other than Clinton!
He clearly fell for Clinton's lies like everyone else!

 

[Aaron Strife]

So explain. Please.

Ive got this feeling I am about to be hit with a label of some sort.

I dunno, would you count being grossly misinformed, ignorant and stubborn as a label?