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PokéBOMB VI: Return of the Fairy (Pokémon E3 Information Summary)

Just to remind you guys: just because fairy is 2X strong against dragon doesnt mean it also isnt immune to it. Gamefreak obviously didnt go into too much detail besides confirming the new type. Thinking about it, it would be really stupid not to at least resist dragon types or else all it would take is one draco meteor and the opposing fairy type would be dead rendering the new type useless. We cannot just forget the accuracy of the pokebeach rumour.


Edit: never got the chance to gloat about being righg about fairy being real. I always said it was obvious. And major major props to pokebeach this pre gen.
 
Hey joe, i know when i asked before you gave a bullshit politician like answer but im still curious: did you think a new type was in the making?
 

Kokonoe

Banned
But Silver is absolutly terrible he doesnt even acknowledge he lost to you

False.

"…I couldn't win… I gave it everything I had… What you possess, and what I lack… I'm beginning to understand what that dragon master said to me…"
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
The gameplay is mostly polishing of existing stuff. Notice how most moves and abilities are mostly "In Generation I, in Generation II-IV, in Generation V"? For example, Sturdy in Gen V became a godsend. Even if they didn't add much, they polished the pre-existing gameplay so much that I wouldn't even touch HGSS because of the awful speed. Then there's hidden abilities, etc.

If it aint broke...

I partially agree, partially disagree. I think there is some stuff which, if not broken, is certainly not near as good as it could be. I've always been somewhat uncomfortable with IVs and natures, for example. It's somewhat jarring for the game to tell you any Pokemon could be strong, it's just a matter of how you treat it, while simultaneously making some Pokemon strictly preferable to another in the sense 31/31/31/31/31/31 is better than 0/0/0/0/0/0. Similar proposition for natures, and even Abilities. I'd prefer it if either all Pokemon species had 1 ability, or all of them manifested all of their abilities simultaneously (although that would probably be horrendously broken). Alternatively, some way to "reclass" between abilities.

I also feel that while EVs are a perfectly acceptable concept, the way the games present them are just terrible - it's utterly opaque. Having such an important concept remain totally unexplained, and have the "reverse mechanics" for EV untraining being so farfetch'd damages the inherently intuitive notion that if you train against faster enemies you will get faster.

I understand most of those concepts can't really be touched because the principle of compatability with older games has to preserved, and these systems date back to the third generation, but really I think if the time ever did come when Pokemon had the opportunity to have a clean break and redesign all the systems from the ground up, then there is an awful lot to be done.

I have a feeling Togekiss will stay Normal/Flying. No Pokémon has ever changed types, only had a type added.

In fairness, only two Pokemon have ever seen their type combination change full-stop prior to this. ;P
 

Kokonoe

Banned
He was as douchey as a rock.

You're the only person on this planet that thinks Gary is not a douche, do I have repost his quotes? He's even portrayed as a douche.

But his douchebag doesn't make sense.

Also... Gary? Hahahahah!

Sense? It's his personality. He's a brat that's egotistical and self centered.

And yes, "hahaha, everything outside of Gen V and Gen VI is pure garbage".
 
I partially agree, partially disagree. I think there is some stuff which, if not broken, is certainly not near as good as it could be. I've always been somewhat uncomfortable with IVs and natures, for example. It's somewhat jarring for the game to tell you any Pokemon could be strong, it's just a matter of how you treat it, while simultaneously making some Pokemon strictly preferable to another in the sense 31/31/31/31/31/31 is better than 0/0/0/0/0/0. Similar proposition for natures, and even Abilities. I'd prefer it if either all Pokemon species had 1 ability, or all of them manifested all of their abilities simultaneously (although that would probably be horrendously broken). Alternatively, some way to "reclass" between abilities.

I also feel that while EVs are a perfectly acceptable concept, the way the games present them are just terrible - it's utterly opaque. Having such an important concept remain totally unexplained, and have the "reverse mechanics" for EV untraining being so farfetch'd damages the inherently intuitive notion that if you train against faster enemies you will get faster.

I understand most of those concepts can't really be touched because the principle of compatability with older games has to preserved, and these systems date back to the third generation, but really I think if the time ever did come when Pokemon had the opportunity to have a clean break and redesign all the systems from the ground up, then there is an awful lot to be done.



In fairness, only two Pokemon have ever seen their type combination change full-stop prior to this. ;P

If your main problem is ev and ivs then you are in luck. According to GF and the pokbeach rumour, something is being done about both systems. Personally, i could care less about them as I never battle competitively and enjoy just the main games and post e4 content.


Edit: i dont get your IV complaint though. I mean thats nature for you. Have you ever heard of genetic potential? Like i can lift and eat big but my body type and genetics will never allow me to be big like say dwayne johnson. He was born with an inherently higher attack stat. Just like i can train to run fast but usian bolt was just born with a higher speed stat. Weak pokemon can become strong through the ev system but yeah...genetic potential is a very real thing.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
I think the laughter at Gary was because there is no Gary in the game per se, that's the name of the character from the anime. The character from the game upon which Gary is based is named Green in Japan and Blue elsewhere.
 
I think the laughter at Gary was because there is no Gary in the game per se, that's the name of the character from the anime. The character from the game upon which Gary is based is named Green in Japan and Blue elsewhere.

It's still pretty annoying considering everyone knows who you're talking about whether you say "Blue/Green" or "Gary." People who correct it are just being persnickety.

Also, can we not start another Gen war? Let's just agree that every generation has its ups and downs and even the old, glitchy ones were brilliant for their time.
 

Neiteio

Member
Question about Jigglypuff, Marill and Gardevoir being Normal/Fairy, Water/Fairy and Psychic/Fairy, respectively... Do these re-typings apply to their evos/pre-evos, as well?
 

Zeroth

Member
I have a feeling Togekiss will stay Normal/Flying. No Pokémon has ever changed types, only had a type added.

It will be interesting to see how GF will handle some pokemons. Togekiss is a perfect example of a pokemon that is already pretty competent with its type, and that getting some bulk against dragons could make some serious damage

Question about Jigglypuff, Marill and Gardevoir being Normal/Fairy, Water/Fairy and Psychic/Fairy, respectively... Do these re-typings apply to their evos/pre-evos, as well?

No one knows, but I would imagine so, except maybe for Gardevoir if they decide to make the evolution line only get a secondary typing on its final evo.
 
Question about Jigglypuff, Marill and Gardevoir being Normal/Fairy, Water/Fairy and Psychic/Fairy, respectively... Do these re-typings apply to their evos/pre-evos, as well?
There's a real good chance of that being the case - however, we'd need to see them to be 100% sure.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
If your main problem is ev and ivs then you are in luck. According to GF and the pokbeach rumour, something is being done about both systems. Personally, i could care less about them as I never battle competitively and enjoy just the main games and post e4 content.

Even with the main games, I think there's a lot that could be done. For example, the fact the Gyms are still type-based is a bizarre anachronism. Back in Red and Blue it made pretty good sense because they were actually very cleverly designed to push you towards certain objectives. If you didn't go Bulbasaur/Squirtle, then the only Pokemon which had moves at early levels that weren't NVE on Brock's Pokemon was Butterfree (Confusion). Everyone else (Rattata/Pidgey/Spearow/both Nidorans/the Weedle line/Pikachu) were pretty much stuffed, so having Brock be specifically Rock type provided an incentive to spread beyond your initial line-up.

Similarly, once you reached Misty, if you hadn't already caught a Pikachu you'd have no access to Electric types because it wasn't possible to get back to Viridian until acquiring Cut. In doing so, the game forces you to thoroughly explore Route 24, where you could find Oddish/Bellsprout. Lt. Surge forces you to explore Diglett's Tunnel, because the only Ground types you can have encountered so far are Sandshrew, which doesn't learn any damaging Ground type moves, and Geodude, which doesn't until level 31, at which point you'll be long past Lt. Surge.

Pretty much all of the other gym leaders in RBY function in the same way. The types have been quite carefully selected to push you out of your comfort zone and teach you lessons. It's no co-incidence that Fire types and Erika's gym become available at approximately the same time, or Ghost types and Sabrina. However, after RBY this just stops being the case. GSC's gym leader line-up doesn't have any real gameplay reason to be the types they are, they're just the left-over types from RBY. The only purpose they serve now is making the game easier, because you just need a Pokemon of the one type that can sweep them, which there's a high chance you'll already have (as opposed to RBY, where the order the leaders were in mandated you hunt around).

This has gotten even worse over the generations, because now Pokemon have much, much wider movesets and you don't really even need to be that specific about your Pokemon choices. It used to be Pokemon would pretty much only learn moves of their own type or Normal type naturally, and anything else was by TM. Now pretty much all Pokemon have strong moveset variety which means most Pokemon can handle most situations with some careful selections, degrading the importance of gym leaders being single-typed even further. As it currently stands, single-typed gym leaders are one of the most disappointing features of Pokemon games. Particularly in Yellow, the combination of high levels and limited availability of tools made gym leaders really quite difficult. Now? Meh.

Gym leaders should become far more like Frontier Brains, in that rather than being built around a type, their team is built around executing a particular strategy.

Sorry, that was a rather focused post around a single example, but there are many more ways in which the main game content is due for some big changes too.
 

clemenx

Banned
Question about Jigglypuff, Marill and Gardevoir being Normal/Fairy, Water/Fairy and Psychic/Fairy, respectively... Do these re-typings apply to their evos/pre-evos, as well?

I'd assume that's going to be the case.

In Gardevoir's case, I can see Ralts and Kirlia staying Physic and Gallade Staying Physic/Fighting.
 

Qurupeke

Member
Btw, it seems like Normal is taking a boost as well... Normal with Fire and Electric and of course a plethora of Normal/Fairy.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Edit: i dont get your IV complaint though. I mean thats nature for you. Have you ever heard of genetic potential? Like i can lift and eat big but my body type and genetics will never allow me to be big like say dwayne johnson. He was born with an inherently higher attack stat. Just like i can train to run fast but usian bolt was just born with a higher speed stat. Weak pokemon can become strong through the ev system but yeah...genetic potential is a very real thing.

Oh, I'm not saying it's unrealistic. I'm saying that a) some Pokemon are inherently better than others due to IVs, b) the game says there is no inherent difference between Pokemon, and differences only result from how well you treat them/friendship. It's a massive clash. Either admit that some Pokemon are better than others or drop the mechanic which blatantly contradicts the ethos of your series. Having both is just meh.
 

Zeroth

Member
Even with the main games, I think there's a lot that could be done. For example, the fact the Gyms are still type-based is a bizarre anachronism. Back in Red and Blue it made pretty good sense because they were actually very cleverly designed to push you towards certain objectives. If you didn't go Bulbasaur/Squirtle, then the only Pokemon which had moves at early levels that weren't NVE on Brock's Pokemon was Butterfree (Confusion). Everyone else (Rattata/Pidgey/Spearow/both Nidorans/the Weedle line/Pikachu) were pretty much stuffed, so having Brock be specifically Rock type provided an incentive to spread beyond your initial line-up.

Similarly, once you reached Misty, if you hadn't already caught a Pikachu you'd have no access to Electric types because it wasn't possible to get back to Viridian until acquiring Cut. In doing so, the game forces you to thoroughly explore Route 24, where you could find Oddish/Bellsprout. Lt. Surge forces you to explore Diglett's Tunnel, because the only Ground types you can have encountered so far are Sandshrew, which doesn't learn any damaging Ground type moves, and Geodude, which doesn't until level 31, at which point you'll be long past Lt. Surge.

Pretty much all of the other gym leaders in RBY function in the same way. The types have been quite carefully selected to push you out of your comfort zone and teach you lessons. However, after RBY this just stops being the case. GSC's gym leader line-up doesn't have any real gameplay reason to be the types they are, they're just the left-over types from RBY. The only purpose they serve now is making the game easier, because you just need a Pokemon of the one type that can sweep them, which there's a high chance you'll already have (as opposed to RBY, where the order the leaders were in mandated you hunt around).

This has gotten even worse over the generations, because now Pokemon have much, much wider movesets and you don't really even need to be that specific about your Pokemon choices. It used to be Pokemon would pretty much only learn moves of their own type or Normal type naturally, and anything else was by TM. Now pretty much all Pokemon have strong moveset variety which means most Pokemon can handle most situations with some careful selections, degrading the importance of gym leaders being single-typed even further. As it currently stands, single-typed gym leaders are one of the most disappointing features of Pokemon games. Particularly in Yellow, the combination of high levels and limited availability of tools made gym leaders really quite difficult. Now? Meh.

Gym leaders should become far more like Frontier Brains, in that rather than being built around a type, their team is built around executing a particular strategy.

Sorry, that was a rather focused post around a single example, but there are many more ways in which the main game content is due for some big changes too.

I guess legacy plays a big part on it. I think it was neat how in Gen 3 you had a gym that focused in double battles to make them more unique, but you are right, the increase of types in pokemons movepools made gym battles much easier, but I feel gym leaders still need something to make them stand apart to each other, and in a sense, having them build around a specific type helps that.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Question about Jigglypuff, Marill and Gardevoir being Normal/Fairy, Water/Fairy and Psychic/Fairy, respectively... Do these re-typings apply to their evos/pre-evos, as well?

I'm pretty sure Azumarill will be part fairy, no reason for it not to be. Talk about a hard counter to SS Kingdra. Not only does it wall it completely, but it has a super effective move against it. It would certainly cut into the power of a rain dance team.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
I guess legacy plays a big part on it. I think it was neat how in Gen 3 you had a gym that focused in double battles to make them more unique, but you are right, the increase of types in pokemons movepools made gym battles much easier, but I feel gym leaders still need something to make them stand apart to each other, and in a sense, having them build around a specific type helps that.

That's why I think building them around a strategy could be equally viable in terms of differentiating them. Having a Speed Gym, Offense Gym, Defense Gym, Attrition Gym, etc. And yeah, Tate & Liza (although only Emerald) were one of the better gym leaders since Gen 1 in terms of forcing you to adapt to different tools. I can't say I'm a massive fan of double battles, but I appreciated having to change how I approached the situation instead of just steam-rollering it like I had with everyone else.
 

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Hmm... someone should've asked if Vs. Seeker or something similar is returning. It was the best form of rematch.

False.

"…I couldn't win… I gave it everything I had… What you possess, and what I lack… I'm beginning to understand what that dragon master said to me…"

That was after he was compelled by the power of friendship (tm). Essentially he only developed at the final fight instead of the gradual course you see towards Cheren (which is then later relished for BW2).

Sense? It's his personality. He's a brat that's egotistical and self centered.

And yes, "hahaha, everything outside of Gen V and Gen VI is pure garbage".

His self-centeredness and inflated ego doesn't make sense at all if you have kicked him plenty of times. Hell, he doesn't even change after you become champion.

And I was laughing at the fact that you call him Gary, not Blue or Green. I'm not a gen-isolationist, FYI. I actually recognize the merits later gens give.

I partially agree, partially disagree. I think there is some stuff which, if not broken, is certainly not near as good as it could be. I've always been somewhat uncomfortable with IVs and natures, for example. It's somewhat jarring for the game to tell you any Pokemon could be strong, it's just a matter of how you treat it, while simultaneously making some Pokemon strictly preferable to another in the sense 31/31/31/31/31/31 is better than 0/0/0/0/0/0. Similar proposition for natures, and even Abilities. I'd prefer it if either all Pokemon species had 1 ability, or all of them manifested all of their abilities simultaneously (although that would probably be horrendously broken). Alternatively, some way to "reclass" between abilities.

I also feel that while EVs are a perfectly acceptable concept, the way the games present them are just terrible - it's utterly opaque. Having such an important concept remain totally unexplained, and have the "reverse mechanics" for EV untraining being so farfetch'd damages the inherently intuitive notion that if you train against faster enemies you will get faster.

I understand most of those concepts can't really be touched because the principle of compatability with older games has to preserved, and these systems date back to the third generation, but really I think if the time ever did come when Pokemon had the opportunity to have a clean break and redesign all the systems from the ground up, then there is an awful lot to be done.

In fairness, only two Pokemon have ever seen their type combination change full-stop prior to this. ;P

Mind you, I also think EVs are kinda wonky, but they seem to be understanding on the difficulty in utilizing them into players and know that the players are savvy about them... so there is hope.
 

Neiteio

Member
No one knows, but I would imagine so, except maybe for Gardevoir if they decide to make the evolution line only get a secondary typing on its final evo.

I'd assume that's going to be the case.

In Gardevoir's case, I can see Ralts and Kirlia staying Physic and Gallade Staying Physic/Fighting.
That makes perfect sense, actually, since as Clemenx noted, Psychic/Fairy Gardevoir creates dual-type symmetry with Psychic/Fighting Gallade. In which case, their shared pre-evos, Ralts and Kirlia, will probably remain plain ol' Psychic -- and that's fine.

I'm really excited about old Pokemon being "refreshed" with the Fairy-type. I'm confident that between the old Pokemon getting Fairy-typed, and all of the new Fairy-type Pokemon, we'll have plenty of specimens to represent this new type, not a dearth like we had with Dark and Steel back in GSC. (That's why Gen III was so great -- it took the two new types introduced in Gen II, and added an abundance of specimens using them)
 

Keyouta

Junior Member
Dang, the framerate during attacks is so bad.

For some reason the trailers seem to show bad framerate, but the individually uploaded battle scenes look nice and smooth. I don't think the framerate will be like that in the actual game.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Am I the only one who wants Normal/Fairy Snorlax? The guy is begging for the renewed relevance that being able to fuck with the dragons would give him.
 

Andrefpvs

Member
In fairness, only two Pokemon have ever seen their type combination change full-stop prior to this. ;P

Obviously I was including Gardevoir, Jigglypuff and Marill in the equation. None of these had a type mutated. So we currently stand as 5vs0.
 

Andrefpvs

Member
Even with the main games, I think there's a lot that could be done. For example, the fact the Gyms are still type-based is a bizarre anachronism. Back in Red and Blue it made pretty good sense because they were actually very cleverly designed to push you towards certain objectives. If you didn't go Bulbasaur/Squirtle, then the only Pokemon which had moves at early levels that weren't NVE on Brock's Pokemon was Butterfree (Confusion). Everyone else (Rattata/Pidgey/Spearow/both Nidorans/the Weedle line/Pikachu) were pretty much stuffed, so having Brock be specifically Rock type provided an incentive to spread beyond your initial line-up.

Similarly, once you reached Misty, if you hadn't already caught a Pikachu you'd have no access to Electric types because it wasn't possible to get back to Viridian until acquiring Cut. In doing so, the game forces you to thoroughly explore Route 24, where you could find Oddish/Bellsprout. Lt. Surge forces you to explore Diglett's Tunnel, because the only Ground types you can have encountered so far are Sandshrew, which doesn't learn any damaging Ground type moves, and Geodude, which doesn't until level 31, at which point you'll be long past Lt. Surge.

Pretty much all of the other gym leaders in RBY function in the same way. The types have been quite carefully selected to push you out of your comfort zone and teach you lessons. It's no co-incidence that Fire types and Erika's gym become available at approximately the same time, or Ghost types and Sabrina. However, after RBY this just stops being the case. GSC's gym leader line-up doesn't have any real gameplay reason to be the types they are, they're just the left-over types from RBY. The only purpose they serve now is making the game easier, because you just need a Pokemon of the one type that can sweep them, which there's a high chance you'll already have (as opposed to RBY, where the order the leaders were in mandated you hunt around).

This has gotten even worse over the generations, because now Pokemon have much, much wider movesets and you don't really even need to be that specific about your Pokemon choices. It used to be Pokemon would pretty much only learn moves of their own type or Normal type naturally, and anything else was by TM. Now pretty much all Pokemon have strong moveset variety which means most Pokemon can handle most situations with some careful selections, degrading the importance of gym leaders being single-typed even further. As it currently stands, single-typed gym leaders are one of the most disappointing features of Pokemon games. Particularly in Yellow, the combination of high levels and limited availability of tools made gym leaders really quite difficult. Now? Meh.

Gym leaders should become far more like Frontier Brains, in that rather than being built around a type, their team is built around executing a particular strategy.

Sorry, that was a rather focused post around a single example, but there are many more ways in which the main game content is due for some big changes too.

This was actually pretty interesting to read. I never thought about it this way.
 

PK Gaming

Member
ESGwdWF.png


I really hope those designs end up being usable in the actual game, instead of being a representation of your character to other players, because they're really good / varied.
 

Berordn

Member
ESGwdWF.png


I really hope those designs end up being usable in the actual game, instead of being a representation of your character to other players, because they're really good / varied.

Considering two of the designs there look like the designs selectable at the start of the game, that might be the first peek at customization.
 

ash_ag

Member
ESGwdWF.png


I really hope those designs end up being usable in the actual game, instead of being a representation of your character to other players, because they're really good / varied.

Indeed. What's interesting (if maybe a bit of a blasphemy :p) is that you can even remove the cap! I hope retro costumes will be available and that it'll be possible to mix things around.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
This was actually pretty interesting to read. I never thought about it this way.

Thanks! :3 I occasionally toy around with hacking the GBA Pokemon games from time to time, so I like to think I've noticed a few interesting elements of the Pokemon series game design.
 
I don't need a rival that isn't my friend, but someone who's serious about competing. Say, Megaman and Protoman in Battle Network. That'd be cool.
 
I'm loving the new Pokemon, but something feels really off about the lion cub. Probably because it looks like some sort of trippy bear monster. Needs more lion cuteness.
 

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Watch as said lion cub evolves into a fire maned creature like Berial from DMC4 or a Manticore.

Wow you're fucking rude.

I was laughing at the fact that he uses anime reference, silly. Everyone knows that's silly.
 
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