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[Jonnyram]

A Sony rep said that in-game XMB would be coming with Firmware 2.4 as well, right? Hopefully that's still the case.

No. Wollan is NOT a Sony rep, contrary to how it may seem.

 

[Firewire]

Yes, this is particularly important on GAF. So we can catch out people who say "Uncharted was crap blah blah" and then we can check their PSN name to see if they've even played through the damn game.

Still there will be shock and horror when we realise that Kittonwy hasn't made it past Chapter 3

Kittonwy is a freak of nature when it comes to games with guns. Seriously, that little orange cat is a killing machine! :lol

 

[3rdman]

But bragging is fun when it's between friends...there's a very active competition between me and a circle of buddies and family involving that score.

The rules are unspoken but simple. No cheating. And cheating would involve games like Golden Compass. We all buy mostly the same games so it's kind of cool to race to get kills, beat levels, etc, because mostly we play together.

I don't know, I think gamerscore gets a lot of unwarranted hate.

It's certainly not the sole reason any of us play, but it is a fun little addition.

Come on now...in a Sony related thread, do you really expect someone to mention the positives of gamerscores? Hell, I bet if you go back to 2005/6, you'll find that many people here hated the idea of achievements too....until recently.

Personally, I like them in that they give you a quick deduction of someone's commitment to a particular game. When doing comparisons of games between friends, you can see the differential (560/1000 points) and it helps to gauge how you might compare with them.

 

[Firewire]

No. Wollan is NOT a Sony rep, contrary to how it may seem.

Actually wasn't it the guy who handles the firmware updates for Sony, that said 2.4 would be a major update in regards to the XMB?

 

[gofreak]

This is the exact origin of the in-game communication, 2.4, summer stuff. This was said back in March.

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/29792/Sony-hails-retail-as-PS3-hits-1m

“Our momentum will continue with the introduction of in-game communication in the summer, firmware update 2.4 and the strongest line-up of games through our third party partners and our own studios. I’d personally like to thank our trade and business partners for helping us on the start of the PS3 journey.”

Now, strictly speaking you could say that the comment doesn't definitively tie in-game communication to FW 2.4.

But it seems likely if it's coming in the summer.

And of course there's always the possibility for rescheduling.

 

[EktorPR]

Actually wasn't it the guy who handles the firmware updates for Sony, that said 2.4 would be a major update in regards to the XMB?

Yep, that included in-game communication (XMB), too.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Personally, I like them in that they give you a quick deduction of someone's commitment to a particular game.

So you can't do that by just looking out the amount of achievements someone has unlocked for a particular game? Say you look at their profile and it says 15/40 Achievements unlocked.

I can understand the point of achievements, it can possibly extend the reply value of a game by having you do a certain task that you might've not even thought of doing otherwise. But gamerscore doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[Goldrusher]

Each achievement given various gamerscore value = no true indication of struggle at all (an extra layer of BS)

IMO, the Gamerscore should be a completion percentage.
(100 * unlocked achievements / locked achievements)

A Gamerscore of 4200 could in reality be only 28%, while 3000 could be 100%.

 

[gcubed]

Actually wasn't it the guy who handles the firmware updates for Sony, that said 2.4 would be a major update in regards to the XMB?

shhh let him go... its easier to just leave him sound like an ignorant ass then to argue with him.


I'd like to know if this will import all the old stuff. Will my achievements in DMC4 auto become trophies when this hits?

 

[Wollan]

In-game-communications for 2.4 releasing in summer was said by Ray Maguire, chief UK division SCE.

 

[PistolGrip]

But bragging is fun when it's between friends...there's a very active competition between me and a circle of buddies and family involving that score.

Bragging is fun and thats what achievements provide. Gamerscore is pretty much meaningless as others have pointed out since its aggregate score across all games. Its like me adding up all the game scores from the PS3, Wii and 360 and saying one is better than the other based on that aggregate number.

 

[Bearillusion]

No. Wollan is NOT a Sony rep, contrary to how it may seem.

Just a very naughty boy?

 

[3rdman]

So you can't do that by just looking out the amount of achievements someone has unlocked for a particular game? Say you look at their profile and it says 15/40 Achievements unlocked.

I can understand the point of achievements, it can possibly extend the reply value of a game by having you do a certain task that you might've not even thought of doing otherwise. But gamerscore doesn't make any sense to me.

Well, on the 360 the achievement are not broken down in that manner...you have to scroll through the achievement to see what is locked or unlocked and there is nothing that denotes the number of achievements. It is also a somewhat needed representation of someone's playtime that can be quickly viewed via gamercards.

Come to think of it, there is a bit of irony in your argument in that you'd be fine if Sony tracked the number of achievements but only if they gave it a number value of "1".

 

[SolidSnakex]

Come to think of it, there is a bit of irony in your argument in that you'd be fine if Sony tracked the number of achievements but only if they gave it a number value of "1".

Actually I don't care at all if Sony tracks the number of achievements. I was just giving an example of why the actual scoring system wasn't needed.

 

[Wollan]

Come to think of it, there is a bit of irony in your argument in that you'd be fine if Sony tracked the number of achievements but only if they gave it a number value of "1".

In the way he suggests, it would be much closer to the truth while not being a 'scientific result'. Gamerscore adds a random number value ontop of that again which totally distorts it.

 

[ThePeter]

I was just thinking about this the other day, GamerScore is dumb. It seems like it's made for shovelware.

 

[Haunted]

Fuck 2D Trophies and give me GAMES you morons.

Yes. and fixed.

 

[3rdman]

IMO, the Gamerscore should be a completion percentage.
(100 * unlocked achievements / locked achievements)

A Gamerscore of 4200 could in reality be only 28%, while 3000 could be 100%.

That would be VERY frustrating because nobody would ever get to 100% and the counter argument is that you could be at 100% and only own one game.

 

[levious]

Well, on the 360 the achievement are not broken down in that manner...you have to scroll through the achievement to see what is locked or unlocked and there is nothing that denotes the number of achievements.

isn't it that way when you compare games?

 

[methane47]

June 2009 amirite?

 

[Firewire]

When most of my friends still had their 360's they would always get into arguments about Gamerscore's. It always came down to an argument of how someone got such a score and accusations of how that person cheated to get the score.

 

[badcrumble]

This is the exact origin of the in-game communication, 2.4, summer stuff. This was said back in March.

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/29792/Sony-hails-retail-as-PS3-hits-1m



Now, strictly speaking you could say that the comment doesn't definitively tie in-game communication to FW 2.4.

But it seems likely if it's coming in the summer.

And of course there's always the possibility for rescheduling.

True, there's a bit of wiggle room there. But I think it's pretty undeniable that in-game communication (if it includes friends list, message reading, and message sending) only needs an interface redraw to become in-game XMB. Heck, if Sony felt like it I'm sure they could redraw + animate that interface right now to look like the XMB without the friends list stuff (just needs icons), since all it'd need is a limited list of system settings and a more context-sensitive game/dvd/blu-ray/display/whatever options menu. I can understand waiting for in-game messaging to debut an XMB-based redesign of said menu for in-game interface consistency, but I really would be surprised if they bring us in-game messaging without also redrawing the interface in the same firmware update.

 

[Azrael]

The problem with Gamer Score is its completely arbitrary nature. Getting 5 points from Final Fantasy XI is tougher than getting 1,000 points from most games. And Gamer Score encourages devs to dumb down achievements so Gamer Score whores will rent/buy their games just to jack up their scores.

 

[The Jer]

I like acheivments but gamer score is incredibly stupid imo.

agreed.


achievements = good

gamerscore = bad

 

[The Jer]

Would you get trophies for games you already finished if they added trophies later or would you have to play it again.?

or would you simply have to turn the game on to receive the trophies you had earned?

Also, I hope a lot of older games support this feature.

 

[3rdman]

In the way he suggests, it would be much closer to the truth while not being a 'scientific result'. Gamerscore adds a random number value ontop of that again which totally distorts it.

It is not random...It's a number determined by the developers and as such, it becomes a way of communication from dev to player. It helps them communicate to the player what they would consider worth pursuing or what they would consider a "complete experience". Some achievements are ridiculous and should have "lesser value" than say beating the game. For you, all achievements are identical and that there would be no difference between them.

By the way, could you repost that awesome drawing of yours? You know, the one where the PS3 car easily beats the 360 to the finish line? Totally awesome!

 

[Firewire]

or would you simply have to turn the game on to receive the trophies you had earned?

Also, I hope a lot of older games support this feature.

Well games that already had Accomplishments (DMC4) or trophies (Uncharted) and I think Ratchet & Clank already had that info tied to you're hard drive, so they would automatically show up after the firmware update. Games from the past would have to receive an update most likely to tie things in to the hard drive.

 

[3rdman]

The problem with Gamer Score is its completely arbitrary nature. Getting 5 points from Final Fantasy XI is tougher than getting 1,000 points from most games. And Gamer Score encourages devs to dumb down achievements so Gamer Score whores will rent/buy their games just to jack up their scores.

Not all games are the same...Achievements in Crackdown and GTA are worth doing. Devs that "dumb down" don't play on my machine so it's not much of a concern for me...but I understand your point and it's well taken.

MS would have to be stricter in their approval process to include this. Also, this is a first iteration...it WILL get better over time. Sony has a chance to implement something better here...they've been slow to respond this entire gen so we'll see if they can pull it off, but they need to get more basic features before they can worry about this unimportant stuff.

 

[Kittonwy]

Source: http://www.psu.com/Rumor--PlayStation-trophies-to-hit-in-June-News--a0003642-p0.php



Fingers crossed.

Wherez my in-game xmb?

 

[tha_con]

Actually wasn't it the guy who handles the firmware updates for Sony, that said 2.4 would be a major update in regards to the XMB?

Well, that major update to the XMB could very well just be the addition of viewable Trophies in the XMB...

 

[Azrael]

It is not random...It's a number determined by the developers and as such, it becomes a way of communication from dev to player.

It's random and arbitrary. There is no consistent correlation across games between how difficult an achievement is to obtain and how many points it is worth. You have games that the average player will obtain 1000 points from from a single playthrough over one weekend, and games like Ridge Racer VI that are extremely difficult to obtain points from. I played Final Fantasy XI for two years and didn't meet the requirements to unlock a single point from that game.

 

[krypt0nian]

I was really behind the whole achievement thing at first, but have since lost interest. I know its expected at this point, but I almost wish they would focus on something else.

 

[tha_con]

In the end, the Gamerscore system boils down to whoever can buy / rent the most games, as it is very easy to run through a game on normal setting in a few days and dig out 400 achievement points.

Even then, games like Avatar: The Air Bender remove even more of the 'importance' of Gamerscores.

Trophies will be no different.

 

[Tom Penny]

Well if I had any games to buy these trophies might come in handy.

 

[Firewire]

Well if I had any games to buy these trophies might come in handy.

Seriously, are we back to this BS?

 

[Fafalada]

Wherez my in-game xmb?

Good things come to those that wait.

 

[TONX]

Actually wasn't it the guy who handles the firmware updates for Sony, that said 2.4 would be a major update in regards to the XMB?

Didn't Shane on the latest 1UP yours hint at 2.4 being pretty significant?

 

[Firewire]

Didn't Shane on the latest 1UP yours hint at 2.4 being pretty significant?

Yeah I think you're right, I'm pretty sure he mentioned that as well.

 

[3rdman]

It's random and arbitrary. There is no consistent correlation across games between how difficult an achievement is to obtain and how many points it is worth. You have games that the average player will obtain 1000 points from from a single playthrough over one weekend, and games like Ridge Racer VI that are extremely difficult to obtain points from. I played Final Fantasy XI for two years and didn't meet the requirements to unlock a single point from that game.

Ouch! I certainly understand your frustration, but that is the exception to the rule and it's more of an indictment of the developer than anyone else. If you never received any gamerpoints, then you never unlocked an achievement for that game and that is something that should be blamed on the developer. Two years and no points??? Wow!

As I eluded to earlier, this system is still kinda new...some developers (I'm looking at you, Square/Namco) haven't figured out how to properly implement them and I think MS should do more to set guidelines, but its far too early to denounce it before it has a chance to mature.

 

[tha_con]

Well if I had a PS3 these trophies might come in handy.

I agree.

 

[nofi]

Well if I had a thumb for a penis these trophies might come in handy.

Too true.

 

[tha_con]

LOL @ nofi. Awesome. :lol

The great thing about the Gamerscore system is that it works wonders for the industry and game sales. It almost becomes an 'incentive' for developers to implement easy achievement points into their game so it see's greater sales / rentals.

There really is no reward for a developer to make challenging achievement points, at all. I don't expect trophies to be any different.

 

[nofi]

LOL @ nofi. Awesome. :lol

The great thing about the Gamerscore system is that it works wonders for the industry and game sales. It almost becomes an 'incentive' for developers to implement easy achievement points into their game so it see's greater sales / rentals.

There really is no reward for a developer to make challenging achievement points, at all. I don't expect trophies to be any different.

I remember my first ever Achievement - on Condemned. Ahh. I do hope Sony can come up with something at least half as good.

 

[Thrakier]

I cared for Achievements in the beginning and now I don't give a shit to be honest. I don't know why it turned out that way. But it's not bad to have them and some nice 3D throphies for home would be cool, this really could be a motivation for me. Wait and see.

 

[AndyD]

To people complaining about 2d trophies. If home 3d trophies is all we got, then complainers would say they have to go to Home to see their trophies. This will likely be a list style quick XMB access version, with a full modeled 3D version in Home.

 

[JB1981]

Good things come to those that wait.

We've been waiting for a pretty long frucking time!

 

[Firewire]

I cared for Achievements in the beginning and now I don't give a shit to be honest. I don't know why it turned out that way. But it's not bad to have them and some nice 3D throphies for home would be cool, this really could be a motivation for me. Wait and see.

I don't care about scores or accomplishments/achievements really, but I think the trophies could be kind of cool.

 

[Kill Your Masters]

It's random and arbitrary. There is no consistent correlation across games between how difficult an achievement is to obtain and how many points it is worth. You have games that the average player will obtain 1000 points from from a single playthrough over one weekend, and games like Ridge Racer VI that are extremely difficult to obtain points from. I played Final Fantasy XI for two years and didn't meet the requirements to unlock a single point from that game.

Will the Trophies be any different? More consistent? Maybe you will have 20 hard earned Trophies, but another person 20 easy earned trophies. Sounds like 3d Gamerscore to me...

Or am I missing the point here? (since this thread became a Gamerscore vs. Trophies battle)

 

[Tom Penny]

I agree.

So I don't have a PS3 , Uncharted, MLB the Show, Ratchet and GTA IV. Ok...if that makes you feel better. That's not alot of games and all there is left this year is MGS4, LBP and R2.

 

[Vaxadrin]

Is there a way to get these trophies to show up on my gamercard?