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[meddow]

UT3 on xbox 360 went from a day one to

When hell freezes over

 

[Mifune]

I've kinda always had a clue that the Epic higher-ups were a bunch of douches, and this confirms it.

Not Cliffy, I love you Cliffy.

 

[charlequin]

That's not true. It's very clear that Epic behaved lousily. The matter isn't even really the "they stole it from him" but rather... he said they did, they banned him and deleted all his post dealing with this subject matter.

That's an awful reaction, that's clear and speaks very badly for a company.

Right. This is going to be a tempest in a teacup because it's really not a very big problem, but it's definitely lousy. If the maps really are different, all it should really take is "compare them side by side when the game releases and you'll see it's not the same map." The actual approach they took just makes them look bad.

EDIT: It should be noted that quite possibly the "higher ups" don't even know about this yet; it's probably just the forum monkeys who did the deletion and banning, and most of the company would probably be off on Sunday. It's not impossible that once someone in a real leadership position hears about the story there'll be a "sorry that was fucked up" moment.

 

[Metalmurphy]

Seriously. It's a cargo boat in the middle of the fucking arctic.

Do you guys really want to tell me this guy invented cargo ships? And the Arctic?

No? Then STFU.

If the layout was EXACTLY the same, and they were ripping off his art assets, then you might have a point. But it isn't and they aren't.

NeoGAF groupthink stupidity at its best.

Cargo Boat - Check
Artic Ocean - Check
Same Background - Check
Same Bridge - Check
Some icebergs - Check
Same snow - Check
user gets banned from forums - Check
Thread gets deleted - Check

Sure... it's all just a big coincidence... :lol

 

[Proelite]

Who ever the moderator is that deleted his posts and then banned him should be demodded for taking such a harsh stance. Revert his ban, and apologize. All that's needed to be done. If he still complains about stealing stuff, then ban his ass.

 

[h3ro]

We don't know all the facts, but the Epic guys are pretty vocal on the boards. If it wasn't something serious, or was just a misunderstanding, why did they delete all the threads and ban this guy?

Its a two way street with mods, guys can put in other game property into the game because they aren't getting paid, etc (MC from Halo, Samus were skins in UTIII for PS3) but now modders expect legal rights when its their own work?

I'm interested to see how this plays out...

 

[GremlinInTheMachine]

The Epic guys seem like dicks in general so no surprise.

 

[Blueblur1]

Wow. This is the kinda shit that makes me never want to buy an Epic game again.

Ditto.

 

[Siegfried]

That's disgusting. Can't believe it's true. Rip off your own community? Disgusting

 

[MedievalManIII]

Epic Moderators: CliffyB, there's someone on the forums accusing us of stealing his map.

CliffyB: Tell him to suck it down! Design is law! No one dares to question me or my creative abilities!

<Epic Moderators ban the map maker and delete him>

Spoiler

AHAHAHATOTALLYNOTTRUEAHAHAHAHA

 

[antiloop]

I demand an official explanation. Shouldn't be too much to ask.

 

[Sciz]

I've kinda always had a clue that the Epic higher-ups were a bunch of douches, and this confirms it.

Not Cliffy, I love you Cliffy.

I miss the days when Tim Sweeney had more input into their games than just programming.

 

[harSon]

Cargo Boat - Check
Artic Ocean - Check
Same Background - Check
Same Bridge - Check
Some icebergs - Check
Same snow - Check
user gets banned from forums - Check
Thread gets deleted - Check

Sure... it's all just a big coincidence... :lol

Are we looking at the same map? :lol

 

[IzumiK]

LOL!

Taking the best of the mods alright. :lol

 

[Confidence Man]

Epic stole his "idea" :lol

Hey, I was making a knight mod for Oblivion before Bethesda announced Knights of the Nine, maybe I should complain about it.

 

[forgeforsaken]

Epic has a decent history of taking care of its community, whether it be free maps for users, or stuff like the make something unreal contest for the mod makers. For them to steal content of one of their modders seems to be very out of character. Until we see a side by side layout I'm not buying it.

 

[Uncle]

Someone will probably do an extensive comparison later on, but if it's just the setting I really don't see this as the heinous crime some seem to think it is.

 

[FoxSpirit]

We don't know all the facts, but the Epic guys are pretty vocal on the boards. If it wasn't something serious, or was just a misunderstanding, why did they delete all the threads and ban this guy?

Its a two way street with mods, guys can put in other game property into the game because they aren't getting paid, etc (MC from Halo, Samus were skins in UTIII for PS3) but now modders expect legal rights when its their own work?

I'm interested to see how this plays out...

Actually, this is only partially right. If the original copyright owner really pressed it they would have to delete their works.

RIP Chrono Trigger remake...

It's the same with manga fan translations, this is only tolerated but occasionally the copyright holders have sent out C&Ds and the project had to be stoppped.

There are a couple of reasons why companies don't actively enforce their copyright in the modding community but if they feel that a mod would somehow really hurt them they will take action. Like Blizzard calling a stop on a far developed Starcraft recreation mod... for Command&Conquer Generals. You may guess the reason ;-)

 

[FoxSpirit]

Epic has a decent history of taking care of its community, whether it be free maps for users, or stuff like the make something unreal contest for the mod makers. For them to steal content of one of their modders seems to be very out of character. Until we see a side by side layout I'm not buying it.

Yeah, that is SO weird. I'm still waiting for their explanation as to this. And wait I will.

 

[gkryhewy]

No matter what they put in the 360 version, NOTHING will be exclusive to the 360 version of this game.

Been stated already, but this is utterly irrelevant to the topic at hand, and a blatant troll.

 

[Metalmurphy]

Are we looking at the same map? :lol

You do realize boats have "bridges" right?

 

[Sporty]

They don't buy the modders work, they purchase the talent behind the mod.

The Quake Mod Team Fortress says Hi.

 

[jeffbax]

Just like how Counter-Strike was developed.

The game publisher/developer owns all rights about your mod.

I think you are incorrect.

The mod developer owns all the assets that they create, they just cannot charge for it while using the retail game as the engine. If they purchased a license for UE3, then they could do a for-profit stand alone version. The Red Orchestra team I believe won an engine license with the Make Something Unreal contest.

11. Editor and End-user Mods.

(a) The Software includes an editor and associated tools and utilities (the "UnrealEd"). UnrealEd is a really cool feature which allows you to modify the Software or to construct new variations for use with it. These modifications and variations can be both playable and non-playable. UnrealEd is NOT shareware. You may not freely distribute it to any BBS, CD, floppy or any other media. You may not sell it or repackage it for sale.

(b) Using UnrealEd, you may create modifications or enhancements to the Software, including the construction of new levels (collectively referred to as "Mods"), subject to the following restrictions:

i. Your Mods must only work with the full, registered copy of the Software, not independently or with any other software.

ii. Your Mods must not contain modifications to any executable file(s).

iii. Your Mods must not contain any libelous, defamatory, or other illegal material, material that is scandalous or invades the rights of privacy or publicity of any third party, nor may your Mods contain, or be used in conjunction with, any trademarks, copyright-protected work, or other recognizable property of third parties, nor may your Mods be used by you, or anyone else, for any commercial exploitation including, but not limited to: (a) advertising or marketing for a company, product or service.

iv. Your Mods shall not be supported by Atari, Epic or any of such parties' affiliates and subsidiaries, and if distributed pursuant to this license your Mods must include a statement to such effect.

v. Your Mods must be distributed solely for free, period. Neither you, nor any other person or party, may sell them to anyone, commercially exploit them in any way, or charge anyone for receiving or using them without prior written consent from Epic Games Inc. You may, exchange them at no charge among other end-users and distribute them to others over the Internet, on magazine cover disks, or otherwise for free.

vi. The prohibitions and restrictions in this section apply to anyone in possession of the Software or any of your Mods.

In no way does Epic own what you create, and this complaint the map maker is far fetched IMO. Its not like maps are created instantly and both could have been in production at the same time. The layout is not the same, and there have been other tanker levels in games before.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

The Quake Mod Team Fortress says Hi.

Your wording makes me :lol :lol

 

[Eid]

That makes me feel better about pirating UT3.

 

[zaccheus]

can someone post some pics of the original vs the epic one?

First that IGN interview, now this disaster.

uh oh Epic. this hasn't been a good day for them so far.



fixed

what interview?

 

[Zezboob]

That's not true. It's very clear that Epic behaved lousily. The matter isn't even really the "they stole it from him" but rather... he said they did, they banned him and deleted all his post dealing with this subject matter.

I agree that deleting the thread was too much and suspicious.

But if the guy was bitching continually or insulting, the ban is deserved, specially if they didn't rip his map.

It's better to wait Epic answer IMO.

 

[Guy Legend]

That makes me feel better about pirating UT3.

Oh dear...

 

[PataHikari]

You do not own or have the rights to anything you mod for any game, all rights are given up in the EULA.

So I'm hardly surprised. They probably banned him because he was being a jerk about it.

First off, I'd debate whether EULA's actually mean anything and I doubt they would be upheld in a court of law.. but anyways, that's another thing.

They banned him because they didn't want this getting out, obviously.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

That makes me feel better about pirating UT3.

Run!!!!!!

And to stay on topic, this better be for a good reason. I'd give EPIC the benefit here unless something else springs up.

 

[tanod]

My guess: Former Epic employee took an early version of the map that Epic is now putting out in a finished form and is whining because he wants credit for work he did at a company he no longer works for.

/completely unsubstantiated speculation

 

[NeonBlade]

Oh Dear Clifford.

 

[Big-E]

If Epic does take mods from others and sells them then a whole lot of trouble will be going down. If this is true and continues, Epic can probably kiss making another UT game goodbye.

 

[Metalmurphy]

My guess: Former Epic employee took an early version of the map that Epic is now putting out in a finished form and is whining because he wants credit for work he did at a company he no longer works for.

/completely unsubstantiated speculation

And they ban him only 1 month after the map is released?

Coincidently after he complained about this?

:lol

 

[Struct09]

Speaking of mods...

That makes me feel better about pirating UT3.

Eid
Banned
(Today, 04:25 PM)

That was fast, well done!

Anyways, hopefully Epic comes out and makes an official statement. They're not looking too good today.

 

[Justin Bailey]

I bet he's a Denis Dyack plant.

 

[Grayman]

My guess: Former Epic employee took an early version of the map that Epic is now putting out in a finished form and is whining because he wants credit for work he did at a company he no longer works for.

/completely unsubstantiated speculation

Would someone who worked there actually go about it in that way, on their forum?

 

[Uncle]

You do realize boats have "bridges" right?

Which seem pretty similar on cargo ships. Like the ones in these. Not identical, but similar. But I'm with you on the snow. They definitely stole snow from this dude.

 

[a Master Ninja]

Eid
Banned
(Today, 04:25 PM)
0.09 posts per day:lol

 

[sangreal]

First off, I'd debate whether EULA's actually mean anything and I doubt they would be upheld in a court of law.. but anyways, that's another thing.

They banned him because they didn't want this getting out, obviously.

Off-Topic, but EULAs have been consistently held up in court

(With the exception of specific clauses like banning reviews)

 

[sangreal]

Cargo Boat - Check
Artic Ocean - Check
Same Background - Check
Same Bridge - Check
Some icebergs - Check
Same snow - Check
user gets banned from forums - Check
Thread gets deleted - Check

Sure... it's all just a big coincidence... :lol

I don't see most of those in the few seconds of video from the OP, but almost everything listed is what you would expect from a boat in the arctic. Maybe they stole the concept of cargo ship in the arctic from this developer, or maybe they are deadliest catch addicts, who knows. Its not like originality has ever been Epic's strong suit.

 

[Darkpen]

What the fuck. Wow.

Fail, Epic, FAIL!

What the fuck.

Guess I'm never paying for a new product by Epic, ever.

 

[PataHikari]

Off-Topic, but EULAs have been consistently held up in court

(With the exception of specific clauses like banning reviews)

I have never heard once of a EULA being upheald in a court.

And you are the first person to ever mention it. Like, ever, in all my experience with discussing them.

Show me the case where an EULA has been held up as a binding contract.

 

[a Master Ninja]

I think we are being just a bit reactionary here.

 

[WickedLaharl]

epic moderators and employees deleting a complaint thread and banning users is nothing new even if the complaint was/is legit.

as for them stealing his map? i'll have to wait for a decent comparison before making a judgment call.

 

[boo7z]

Database error
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Please try the following:
Load the page again by clicking the Refresh button in your web browser.
Open the utforums.epicgames.com home page, then try to open another page.
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We apologise for any inconvenience.

That didn't take long. EL O EL :lol

 

[CurseoftheGods]

Wow. Fuck Epic.

 

[FoxSpirit]

That didn't take long. EL O EL :lol

Actually... the whole forums are down. I think that's a good excuse

 

[charlequin]

Off-Topic, but EULAs have been consistently held up in court

There's ambiguous and contradictory caselaw on printed EULAs (like those included on a card with a piece of purchased software.) The caselaw on clickthrough licenses is stronger but by no means definitive.

However, the legality of EULAs isn't actually important to determine to any of the issues about this situation.

The piece bolded by jeffbax is just Epic asserting their right as co-owner of a derivative work to prevent distribution except under the terms of their choosing -- that is, if you create a mod that requires the game to play, it's co-owned by you and Epic and they can prevent you from distributing that version for money.

The mythical (since, as we see upthread, it doesn't exist in at least UT2k4's EULA) "we own your work" clause would be invalid even if EULAs in general are legitimate, because you cannot contractually sign away your automatic reciept of copyright control for artistic works you create except by accepting contractual employment and creating works-for-hire in the context thereof.

Show me the case where an EULA has been held up as a binding contract.

Unsurprisingly, Wikipedia has a decent rundown on their legal status in the US.

 

[NeonBlade]

The backlash felt over the net, is causing reverbs at Epic, even at a small level. The whole site is indeed down, atleast for me.