Not according to the lore. Apparently, backspin can ruin your entire shot. Wind resistance, power, lift, all can be thrown out of the window if you use backspin.
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Everybody's Golf |OT| We'll miss you Hot Shots Golf
- Thread starter kdoll08
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Not according to the lore. Apparently, backspin can ruin your entire shot. Wind resistance, power, lift, all can be thrown out of the window if you use backspin.
Maybe it should, but it doesn't in the case of backspin. I guess I can understand that maybe the super backspin homing shot might be too easy if every PI went perfectly straight, but still it should really be more obvious and not be part of a "late game" quiz.
Latvian Hitman
Member
Honestly they've totally nerfed backspin in this game
To the point I don't use it because I'm pretty much guaranteed an off-kilter shot
How am I supposed to attack pins with precision when there's a high chance of knocking it a few yards off, even with PI
Just so counter-intuitive
To the point I don't use it because I'm pretty much guaranteed an off-kilter shot
How am I supposed to attack pins with precision when there's a high chance of knocking it a few yards off, even with PI
Just so counter-intuitive
You won't actually get any backspin with the driver, it will just give it more carry.
Not trying to say this in a condescending way, but it's clear that this is your first game in this series and you simply don't understand all of the intricacies of it yet, but will learn in due time.
You don't need to do that, unless you want to be the player with the biggest dick around.. i mean club.
No, never played the series. I imagine the leaderboards in the older games are even more ridiculous than they are in this game if people are hung up over such a small variance.
And yes, it really is a small thing that amounts to the mere possibility of it veering 10 yards to the left or right at the extreme instead of landing in the same spot every single time you play the game. Saying that it's "spray n pray" and the skill is gone is hyperbole in my mind, and making a mountain out of a molehill. If that's do or die on your shot, adjust accordingly or live with the (potential) consequences?
I'd rather not solve courses and only have to account for wind variance, having only to worry about the timing of button presses that never change to put it within a yard of where I want it. That's what it would add up to, wouldn't it? Aim for this spot on the green with your cursor, hit it XXX yards on the gauge with XXX spin, and it will hole if I time button presses.
This really is feeling more and more like "I only shot a -25, should have been a -27 if it wasn't for that time it put me in a bunker. This game is bullshit."
You clearly didn't see where it hit to bounce into the bunker. It hit the edge on the left edge of the right bunker then bounced into the bunker. It didn't hit the edge of the bunker that is cutting across the fairway. It was well past that.
And I disagree, where it landed is clearly around 20 or more yards from where the cursor was aimed.
Yes it goes higher and more carry, which is how it cleared the bunker. Again, it flat out shows that it carried 258 yards, and when I first start out, the cursor is at 264 yards. So it carried 6 yards shorter than where the cursor was. The cursor is CLEARLY more than 6 yards past the bunker. I'm not sure why you even are mentioning wind. The ball went DIRECTLY to the right, it didn't start off on the right trajectory and get caught in the wind.
Plus - did you even look at the wind speed? It is like 1mph. If you knew the mechanics of this game, you'd know how little 1mph will affect shots, let alone a driver that has the lowest shot arch of any club.
And look at the impact dot - it is on the edge of the club. WHY?
I hit under the ball to get more carry, which is how it easily cleared the bunker.
What is your point that it hasn't happened to you? Did you not see the video I posted where it's clearly happening? Or read any of the posts on this forum about it? You don't have a special version of the game.
It's clear that some of you are new to this series, and nothing is wrong with that and I'm not trying to sound condescending. You'll learn the intricacies of the mechanics in due time, but if you're seriously trying to defend that shot shouldn't have gone straight (regardless of clearing the bunker which is clearly did), then we'll agree to disagree. It's an awful design decision and hopefully they patch it if you all want this game to have any lasting chance.
It sounds like you may need to learn some intricacies of the mechanics from people who are able to view the series with fresh eyes, purbeast. The mechanic has changed, adjust accordingly.
greendublin
Member
Your shot should have cleared and been nowhere near slipping into the bunker. Unfortunately, it's another example of this happening with super backspin. It just seems like the design choice was to make backspin more risk/reward so you don't use it every shot. From there, you have decide on your own whether that was a good or bad decision. If you find it bad, let Clap Hanz know. Surely JP players are doing so.
Yup, another perfect example of this stupid design decision, but your video also shows me another bug.
If you look at my video, I am a left handed golfer. And I hit it off the tip of my club. And my guy pulls the shot, which as you know if you're a golfer, is flat out wrong. I noticed this as soon as I played the game and was like 'uh if it hits off the tip of the club, the ball is going to be like a push/slice.
In your video, your hit it off the hozzle and your guy pulls the shot, which is correct behavior. So even that is inconsistent.
The way they have it implemented is if it hits off the tip of the club, it goes right. If it goes off the hozzle, it goes left. And that is wrong, depending on if you're left handed or right handed.
So maybe there is hope that they just have some kinks they need to work out and can fix the PI bullshit.
I know it's changed, for the worse. I've already learned it. That's what this whole discussion is about. And it's going to ruin the game in a competitive sense unless they fix it.
You can't really "adjust" for randomness like that either. It's more like "deal with it" than adjust to it. Adjusting would mean you alter something to counter it and act accordingly. That's simply not possible since it is 100% random.
I wonder if having such low backspin stats on the driver (which even having a backspin stat on a driver is one of the dumbest design decisions as well) has anything to do with it.
Like not trying to clear a bunker by a few yards with Super Backspin off the tee?
Except that if I did it 10 times, it would probably be fine 50% of the time or more - who knows though it's all random.
Yeah let's play a HSG game where you can't take risks or try skill shots for fear of some dumb ass random impact due to the new "feature" some of you guys love.
And trying to clear a bunker like that is far from even a risky shot. That is like HSG 101 basic shit here.
As mentioned, if they don't fix it, this game will have a very short life span because there will be no competitive scene.
The saddest part is that we can't even go back and play OOB because they took the servers offline a while back.
For one thing, it makes homing shots totally luck-based
I've played the games since EG2 (2000) so these new RNG systems seem to have been ushered in to add some artificial bullshit difficulty to keep the game from being too easy (it's already piss easy)
Yet, this is a pure arcade golf game, and the gameplay and mechanic systems have always historically been top bloody notch
However when you have said RNG creeping its way into pretty much every round, it really mars what is essentially a superb gameplay experience
Bottom line, it is punishing you at random for having good skill
greendublin
Member
I feel like we're running around in circles on these topics...
If I were designing this game, and wanted to increase risk/reward of backspin, the sway risk would only apply if you attempted backspin and failed to hit PI. It would increase risk without punishing perfection at random.
Also, as discussed, we used to weigh both clubs and characters' strengths and weaknesses in how greater distance, etc. may make impact precision more difficult. That appears to be gone, or far more transparent on how it affects your net results. Clubs used to tighten impact zones much more strongly. Other shot types were removed, which is annoying but I've adjusted. Unlocking courses is too slow, story characters are generic and ugly, Grinding specific stats on every club is annoying. The custom club madness is irritating and forces you to do non-golf nonsense daily to keep up with scores online (which is now impossible with world servers).
I feel like I just listed so many negatives, but I still enjoy the game like crazy. I'm sure most of you do too, as you're likely still playing and talking about it here. The "story" progression is fun (wish it had been in previous games with those characters) and who doesn't love the quiz-man and his music? It's hilarious to hop around in courses and see what crazy creations people are golfing with, and just mess around for a bit. I love my crazy character, Mr. Beakman. Hearing a coin pop while in an online course, L3ing out of your shot to investigate for gems is sadly a really exciting feeling. There's a lot of good stuff that is new to this one.
Ultimately, while it's still very fun, I think we all just wished it were as good as it could have been and that's what we're doing here. Competiting online in OOB and WI was so, so engaging and I think it's what I miss most in this iteration. Maybe graded tournaments will help that, limiting clubs and leveling the playing field. Until then, I'm going to keep playing. Still need to unlock course 5.
Latvian Hitman
Member
They really weren't. The advanced courses were much harder in previous games, and I really believe the shot meter was less forgiving. You definitely had less pink area on the more advanced clubs than you do in this iteration.
United Forest from HSG4, Crown Links from OOB, or Legacy of Golf Links from World Invitational. Purchase or find a buddy with any of those games and "solve" one of those courses for me. Let me know when complete. I could mention quite a few more.
Previous games were oozing with the risk/reward failure/punishment paradigm without any of this stuff. CH has dumbed down the courses, dumbed down the clubs (and, IMO- the shot meter) and reduced the skill gap in favor of dice rolls. I don't like it. I'm never going to like it.
jellies_two
Member
Homing hole in ones?
I don't have as much problem with backspin for irons.
If the wind is variable or the ball isnt lying where it's 100% or there is slope (that you can't convert to an exact effect) there is already an RNG or something that amounts to the same thing so I dont think this extra sway penalty for backspin with 1W is a big deal.
I can agree with you on leveling the playing field by limiting clubs. Mentioned it in the thread earlier, actually. The scores are ridiculous in this game, influenced heavily by how far you can hit it. I hope this happens.
I can even see an argument for reducing the potential sway distance on PI, but I don't think "perfection is perfection" is great for longevity and competition for people outside of the top fraction of a percent. I'm sure you've all played the older games for hundreds of hours and disagree, but that's my opinion. I also hope this "fix" happens, if only for purbeast's sanity...haha.
greendublin
Member
Yeah, I think in previous games your concern was addressed by graded tournaments, and that's what we're missing currently. You'd only play against the top players in an occasional GF tournament, which wouldn't affect rank. It feels like they blue shelled backspin unnecessarily. Personally, I don't think backspin sway is as big a dealbreaker as some have made it. I just use backspin a bit less and I've only noticed once or twice a sway into water or bunker on PI. The biggest issues I see right now are grinding clubs and lack of graded tourneys.
I also wonder wtf decides where you hit the ball as far as the impact spot on the club. I don't think control has to do with it because I think control just makes the white cone smaller. I would think that cone and where the impact hits on the club are independent of eachother though but who knows.
Another one just happened...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTnKgfPfyWc
Note where it hits the ball on the club tip. So what, we aren't supposed to try and use backspin on approach shots with irons either?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTnKgfPfyWc
Note where it hits the ball on the club tip. So what, we aren't supposed to try and use backspin on approach shots with irons either?
greendublin
Member
Brutal. You got blue shelled. I like the little SBS spurt as it slowly descends toward the abyss. At least the music was delightful.
I think you should start keeping stats on your PI sway.
At least you didn't fall out of bounds!
I just gave up using backspin. Too risky. Of course that leaves me with tons of longer putts since I can't stick it close anymore.
Let me boldly ignore everything I know about this game and what I've discussed this morning, attack the pin by putting my cursor on the edge of a cliff with super backspin, then complain when it doesn't land exactly where I said it should.
Congrats? I've had my share of this discussion, haha.
Latvian Hitman
Member
Ugh. That's an ugly one. CH needs to address this.
My suggestions:
- This needs to be tied to control rating. If you hit with PI and have control maxed for that club, you should not have to worry about RNG affecting your shot.
- Any club set that adds addt'l power beyond standard should involve a serious hit to accuracy on the shot meter. All clubs need to be tuned to address this. You wanna' go deep? Cool. Better not miss on the bottom, breh.
- The next couple DLC courses need to be much tougher than what's in the game now.
- Graded tournaments and "G" rankings need to return, obviously.
jellies_two
Member
I don't even know what's wrong with the shot as it landed where he aimed despite the shot dot on the left being off center.
Also why no complaining about the 97-100% rng which is also not controllable?
Dude, he aimed for the cliff side to account for the SW wind, but the RNG sway (was a slice from a PI) kept him in the same spot. Do you take notice of the bottom left indicator at all?
I've exhausted all discussion about this topic now. Guess we'll see if they address it, most likely not
Hopefully see some of you lads / laddettes in the graded tourneys when they come!
The point is you "perfectly" lobbed underneath the ball with a driver and hit an uneven part of the ground. Your timing may be good but the settup and decision was not good for that particular shot and the game didn't let you off. The shot you tried to take (super backspin) is for irons mainly.
Don't blame the game. I have been around since the PS1 and every iteration has a slight adaption to it but nothing major. That's the case for this version as well
greendublin
Member
Shot was definitely attacking the pin (and about a half grid marker too far right imo), but that's hot shots...maybe that's why they changed the name... to go with the new Mario Kart features.
Given we cannot change the backspin sway penalty, maybe sidespin would be more advisable on an approach like this.
Ignoring what you know about the game may help since you clearly don't know much about the game or it's mechanics.
I guess you also ignored the wind and also ignored the fact it hit off the tip of the club on perfect impact.
But keep on keeping.
jellies_two
Member
The wind at 2.7m and 45 degrees (not a side wind) and not a drive, but a short shot, was way over compensated for in aiming.
Especially given the slope to the right off the green.
Yeah I am still learning the wind/box ratio to move it. In OOB with Gloria it was pretty much 1 to 1.5 boxes per MPH depending on the club. I was also taking into the green because I'm pretty sure it was sloping towards the hole once a few feet inside the fringe.
The wind would've carried him to the left toward the hole, but his impact sent it right and negated the wind.
Yes. When you're aware of the potential to sway to the right, it's an assessed risk. I'm actually surprised he didn't fall off the cliff.
You do realize that the wind will carry a SW shot more than a driver ... right? Because from your comment it doesn't sound like you understand this.
You'd never have a concrete awareness of swaying to the right, as it is RNG, so it could have easily swayed to the left. It's potluck
He way overshot his aim for that relatively gentle wind...he also underpowered it, and gave it backspin so the ball launched higher and spent more time losing power to the wind.
I get that the RNG can hurt shots, but this video is not a case example. He made bad choices.
Latvian Hitman
Member
But the RNG could have just as easily flung him the other direction, seeing him land just as far left of the hole. On a short approach shot. With perfect impact.
Veterans of the series are simply never going to like this. This is Bungie putting random bullet spread in Halo Reach.
Aim further left and have your potential be "I landed on the green and can putt for birdie" instead of "If this thing sways right, I might be out of bounds...but if not...it might hole baby!"
Maybe you don't like it, but that's my approach. Use some risk management, assess and play accordingly.
What's your guys excuse for this one?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVc85Ppeqkc
Also it's pretty dumb how my 4i goes farther than my 3i as you can see lol.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVc85Ppeqkc
Also it's pretty dumb how my 4i goes farther than my 3i as you can see lol.
The result is "okay" when you're aware of how the game plays and decide to do it anyway because my Hot Shots on PS2.
What term would you like to use? You obviously know we're all talking about the same thing, so I'm not sure why you want to argue semantics beyond being frustrated that not everyone agrees with you...eesh.
...same, haha.
Latvian Hitman
Member
Risk management from the previous seven games: "OK- this green's super fast and sloping majorly from left to right. I'm going to go for it on this approach, but I'd better aim left of the hole, use some sidespin and hit with PI or I could roll off the green altogether."
Risk management from this game: "Well, the green's flat and slow, and I'd like to go for it on this approach, but I could hit it perfect on bottom and wind up going in either direction. Or, I could miss on bottom, and it might go right to the stick. Hell, it doesn't really matter how I hit it. Fuck it. I'll just hit it and see what happens."
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