Explain yourself?
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Everybody's Golf |OT| We'll miss you Hot Shots Golf
- Thread starter kdoll08
- Start date
Explain yourself?
JetSetRadio
Banned
Still haven't got any rewards apart from the daily bonus course participation and daily rival rank there.
Was placed 206/5461 (S) on another course and nothing. Could it be top 100 only or aren't there simply any rewards?
Was placed 206/5461 (S) on another course and nothing. Could it be top 100 only or aren't there simply any rewards?
The problem with what you are saying, is that just trying to get PI IS the risk you are taking. And if you don't get PI, then the ball veers left/right and you completely miss the shot.
You still have the same "risk" of the ball randomly going another direction, when hitting PI, if you're aiming at the fatter part of the green as you mention in your example. Where you aim has no affect on the randomness of where the ball goes with PI.
There is absolutely NO REASON that if you hit PI the ball doesn't go where you intended it to go. It's simply never been that way in the history of this series, and to make it now randomly do that, is a complete divergent from what us veterans are used to with this series.
Also the fact that you can only increase your control on an approach shot to the green is really stupid. They did not think this through at all when designing the leveling up system.
And why even have a backdoor stat for a club like a driver?
Just stupid stupid design decision. It's one after the other in this game.
greendublin
Member
Sorry, I know you said you like it, but I think Alpina's music sounds like bad Zelda music, the droning strings just annoy me. Green CC is obviously way too overboard for the sport. I like half the tracks from the first course (lose the electric guitar pls) and all of Klonoa or Konopka or Koopa Beach's tracks are perfect.
JetSetRadio
Banned
First set of broken clubs, 10 gems to fix and it seems to remove the flag position above your power bar, especially annoying when putting.
HOLD ON, THATS A THING???
I've hardly used my custom clubs so far.
I'lll have to figure out what the economy is before I make a decision.
I do want to have at least 2 sets. One that is all power, and one that is a combo of power and control. Not sure if I want to bother with a third set.
I will say though, the ticket system seems geared for whales only. If I wanted to throw say $5 into it once, I'd get nothing out of it except saving a day's worth gem collecting. There's no point even considering it.
I'lll have to figure out what the economy is before I make a decision.
I do want to have at least 2 sets. One that is all power, and one that is a combo of power and control. Not sure if I want to bother with a third set.
I will say though, the ticket system seems geared for whales only. If I wanted to throw say $5 into it once, I'd get nothing out of it except saving a day's worth gem collecting. There's no point even considering it.
What does triangle and circle do?
Sometimes I see people have the lighting blue effect that makes their ball move close to the hole, how do I get that?
Yes UI, loading times and presentation are just awful.
Sometimes I see people have the lighting blue effect that makes their ball move close to the hole, how do I get that?
Yes UI, loading times and presentation are just awful.
That's super backspin. You'll get that as you upgrade your backspin stat. You do it by pressing up during the power press and down while doing the impact press and get perfect impact.
Triangle increases the power of your shot 2%, Circle decreases it 2%. You use them to fine tune power if you mess it up.
DrDamn
Member
To be specific you use it instead of X as the third press when taking your shot. Can even be used on putting now that's a three press shot.
Can't you do both in one set? Eg get your 1w max power, 3w max control etc?
When you aim for the fat part of the green, the risk is negated, as the extremes still put you on the green. If you're attacking the pin next to the water, the extreme results with you putting it in the water.
I understand what you're saying and that you prefer it, but it still results in "veterans" making a mountain out of a molehill because a system in a new game behaves differently. A perfect impact can still result in a dead on shot, and the scenarios where attacking a pin can result in an out of bounds are small.
It depends on the green. And it depends on how much randomness the game decides on where it wants your club to hit the ball. It can still very easily go off the green even if you aim for the fat part. I've had a PI shot that it didn't even show the dot on the club at all, it was like an inch off the tip of it, and it resulted in a shot that I had aimed in the middle of a fat fairway to go out of bounds (or in the water, can't remember).
That is just not how golf should be. In real golf, if you hit the ball in the sweet spot, you typically have control over the shot. Now in this game, you hit it in the sweet spot, and you have random ass outcomes.
In every previous version, hitting perfect impact DID result in a dead on shot. You got rewarded for your skills. Now there is so much luck involved with the randomness that it's not rewarding you for your skills at all. I've even had shots that aren't even PI that will still result in shots going dead straight and give me the flames behind it too, which didn't happen in previous games if I remember correctly. The flames were only reserved for PI.
Randomness is just not something that skilled people like. People who have more skill and put in more time SHOULD have an advantage. Now that's not really the case necessarily due to randomness. It's clear that they have dumbed down this game. And I'm pretty confident that if they don't fix this issue, the online community is not going to be around very long.
Fluffhead14
Member
lol that's ridiculous. why even have a thing called PI if it behaves in a completely random way?
say you're playing CoD and you're sniping - guy is dead in your sights, you take the shot and your bullet randomly flies right through no fault of your own.
or some fighting game that requires a complex combo. you perform it right and it just doesn't work.
that works for you?
the argument that you should just "shoot to the fat part of the green" is absolute BS and i'm honestly wondering how far you've advanced in this game, because if you are seriously trying to go for impressive scores in this game on the tougher courses, you need to take some risks, and as it stands you can play a perfect shot that puts in you in a bunker, water, OB, etc. not really sure how it's even an argument- this system is broken- but this is GAF.
say you're playing CoD and you're sniping - guy is dead in your sights, you take the shot and your bullet randomly flies right through no fault of your own.
or some fighting game that requires a complex combo. you perform it right and it just doesn't work.
that works for you?
the argument that you should just "shoot to the fat part of the green" is absolute BS and i'm honestly wondering how far you've advanced in this game, because if you are seriously trying to go for impressive scores in this game on the tougher courses, you need to take some risks, and as it stands you can play a perfect shot that puts in you in a bunker, water, OB, etc. not really sure how it's even an argument- this system is broken- but this is GAF.
Exactly. I've only unlocked the first 3 or 4 courses so I haven't gotten to the hard ones yet.
But as an example of a previous game, you literally wouldn't be able to play Crown Links in OOB with this randomness. You'd be getting bogey after bogey with this randomness because there is a lot of precision and risky shots you HAVE to take in order to get good scores on those courses, and if you don't make those shots, you are going to be shooting 1-3 more strokes on that hole due to the course design.
In this game, you simply couldn't even try because even with PI and correct calculations, the ball can randomly be pushed/pulled and cause you to go 20 yards the wrong direction.
And you are also correct about comparing it to fighting games. I play fighting games pretty competitively (not as much now because Capcom ruined SF5 online, but that's for another thread) but if there was this kind of randomness in those games, they simply wouldn't be played at a competitive level. And that's going to be the case with this, which is going to cause the community to die off very quickly unless they fix it.
Whether you play the game competitively or as a more casual fan, it doesn't really matter because the competitive scene is what keeps the communities thriving and gives them longevity.
Latvian Hitman
Member
I have to disagree- I don't think this is making a mountain out of a molehill. Not having full control over what part of the club face makes contact with the ball is not a good thing, IMO. That's something you have 100% control over in golf.
PI should be PI, period. If you're playing aggressive, and you aimed your shot correctly- accounting for distance, elevation, wind, lie, slope, etc.- and you hit with PI, you should be rewarded for taking that risk, jus the same as you should be penalized if you fail to properly account for any of the prior elements or if you miss your swing on the bottom, even by a tiny amount.
To have a purely random mechanic sitting in between you and the result of your shot makes no sense to me, and it's simply bad for the game.
Radical Edward
Member
In real golf you can hit the sweet spot all you want and push or pull the shot much further off course.
Has anyone posted o bid yet of the ball going 20 yards off course. It's always the difference of 5-10 feet for me when a PI hits the toe or heel
Fluffhead14
Member
Does ClapHanz have anyone from North America taking feedback? I can't read the Japanese tweets. Just wondering if there has been any dialogue about the issue.
The video I posted earlier shows it going at least 20 yards to the right. Look where I initially line up and aim and look at how far that bunker is to the right of where I'm aiming.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5ux2BVVClY
And this is with 11 control + pinhole clubs that were grade 2 I believe, so it adds 6 more to control. It hits off the tip of the club head. Also note that I did super backspin, which apparently causes this to happen more often, which again is a terrible design decision.
I just don't see how anyone can justify this as being a good feature for this game.
Fluffhead14
Member
perfect example. you should be dead center middle of the fairway instead of deep in a bunker.
Well, we're clearly not going to agree on this, and the hyperbole is getting a little out of control.
People who have more "skill" (button press timing) have an advantage, the shots are just not solvable to where you can put it exactly where you want every time if you're timing it perfectly. I'm not sure how you think that is a part of "real golf". If anything, your inability to land it on a stamp from the tee puts it closer to a sim.
You say there is "NO REASON" why they would not have a perfect impact go exactly where you want it every time, when the design reasons why have been covered.
I'm Rank 7, level 13-15 I think? Have scored -20 a few times on 18-hole, and have gone 9-hole courses without ever scoring less than a birdie. Is that good enough for you to have a valid opinion? Haha.
"Skill" in this game accounts for more than button timing. It's risk/reward management as well.
Having shots be perfectly solvable with Perfect Impact would be bad for the game as well, especially for the leaderboards. I'm hitting Perfect Impact 30-40% of the time, and I don't even bother trying for it on putts. I imagine it's much higher for top players. I can't imagine how the leaderboards and online games would look if everyone could put it exactly where they want it on command. Sounds really sterile, and something only the top sliver of players are yearning for.
Higher level regular clubs are a prize for winning tournaments. Just continue on the ranked tournaments to get better ones.
Custom clubs are a prize for defeating the last match play of rank 6. They are upgraded with gems and you upgrade them from the dude with the van in the home area(he doesn't appear until after you unlock custom clubs).
Okay, clearly there's a huge disconnect here. This video really is a perfect example.
Say you hit that shot dead straight. You're still hitting a driver that will require the ball to bounce to reach your target on the HUD. There's a bunker before that target. Even if you do hit it dead straight, your ball is going to bounce into the bunker.
Risk/reward management is another "skill" to work on. You're putting the bunker well in play, and you don't have to.
The carry was almost 260 yards. More then enough to clear the part of the bunker that goes into the fairway.
It wasn't a carry problem. The club sway is what caused that.
I agree we won't agree, but we can agree to disagree.
The 2nd paragraph there, that's not true. It wasn't bad for the game in any of the previous titles and it wouldn't be bad for this. I remember playing OOB a lot online and making it to G0 and you constantly saw the same people at the top of the leaderboards because they were the most skilled at the game, and they deserved to be there.
I'm still pretty confident that if they don't patch this that this game is going to die very quickly because all of the people are are actually good at this game are going to get frustrated with the randomness (as we've already seen 2 weeks into the games life) and it's going to just cause people to stop playing the game.
And don't get it mistaken either - if it worked like previous titles, it is not like you hit PI and the ball lands 100% where your cursor was. That cursor is doing nothing other than showing you a straight line from where the ball is that is X yards away. It's not factoring anything into the actual golf shot calculations such as wind, height differential, lie of the ball, the landscape you are going to land on, what kind of spin you put on, etc.
We're not saying that you hit PI and it should go where the cursor it pointed 100% of the time. We're saying if you were hitting the ball in a vacuum and the terrain was flat, no wind, etc, that the ball WOULD land pretty much right where your cursor is. However in the actual game, that ideal vacuum situation isn't a realistic scenario. There is still alot of skill/math involved in where you want to aim that cursor.
So is the absolute fastest way to rank up playing tournaments in serious mode? Any other way I can speed things up because holy shit am I getting tired of the first golf course.
You unlock courses way, way, way too slowly in this game. I think the actual golfing is pretty great, but my god I don't want to play the first course 20 times before going someplace new.
You unlock courses way, way, way too slowly in this game. I think the actual golfing is pretty great, but my god I don't want to play the first course 20 times before going someplace new.
Huh? That's not true at all. It clearly went past the part of the bunker that wasn't running parallel to the fairway.
Look at my cursor before I add power. It's 264 yards. And then look at the carry yardage of the shot. It's 258 yards. The furthest part of that bunker that it cleared is probably around the 245-250yd distance.
It cleared that bunker with ease. I also put super backspin on it which makes the ball have more carry.
Okay, I'd never take the shot, but let's say it does clear the bunker by mere feet with "Super Backspin" by your math. Now account for the mechanics of the game putting sway on that shot, and for shots with backspin.
I'd say the risk is inherent to the shot in this game and "real golf", but you want the risk to be inherent to the timing of button presses. All to be able to take a club off your approach shot? If I'm maybe clearing a bunker by a few yards if I shoot perfection, I'll just lay up in front of the bunker.
We're clearly of different minds here when it comes to the risk and rewards of shots in golf games. That shot is clearly designed around it.
Radical Edward
Member
Sorry, but that's not 20yards from the yellow box on your overhead can especially considering the reason you entered the Bunker was because you caught the part of the sand which extends into the fairway.
It was because your ball didn't carry as far as you needed it to and didn't account for where the trap extends into the fairway when you lined up your shot. It has to bounce to get to where you aimed and if you look at the blue marker your ball was on target to get within a few feet of that.
How many did it take you to reach the green? I'm sure it would have been the same if you hit the sand or fairway.
If we're sharing example videos, I'll go ahead and put mine out there since it's a little more straightforward:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEhLK9KcMJY
Simple par 3 right off the tee, wind is negligible, the power was fine but maybe a little low (adjusted with Triangle), perfect impact, and yet the ball flies immediately to the left (and into the wind). You can see in the lower left corner that it hits the very inside of the club face. No idea how I could have compensated for that
Again, in this instance it's not a dealbreaker since it's just a couple yards away and it would have likely been a birdie either way, but it's still bogus that it happens
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEhLK9KcMJY
Simple par 3 right off the tee, wind is negligible, the power was fine but maybe a little low (adjusted with Triangle), perfect impact, and yet the ball flies immediately to the left (and into the wind). You can see in the lower left corner that it hits the very inside of the club face. No idea how I could have compensated for that
Again, in this instance it's not a dealbreaker since it's just a couple yards away and it would have likely been a birdie either way, but it's still bogus that it happens
Fluffhead14
Member
i mean, yeah? the risk of not being accurate is a bad shot.
in perfect conditions, i'd also expect when the top of the power bar says 300 yards and i hit it fully, that'd it go 300 yards. not 285.
you're essentially arguing that if you're 100 yards out from the green, you'd be okay with the game sticking you in a bunker 90 yards out due to the "randomness of golf" if you hit the club 100 yards on the power bar.
why would accuracy be any different? if i fuck up the impact and toe the ball, i'd expect it to fly right. in this game at times it goes straight as an arrow. why even have a system in place if it's not consistent? why even have perfect impact if it makes no discernible difference on your shot?
in past games, trying to hit the green in 2 on a par 5 was a challenge. you had to line up the perfect shot AND hit a perfect impact. the risk for not being accurate was a terrible shot. alternatively, those shots were tricky because of how many factors you had to include- they were hard enough - and the risk was inherent in the situation AND the shot. you could hit perfect impact and have slightly miscalculated wind and been OB. but at least it felt like it was your fuck up. now you're just sprayin n prayin.
Radical Edward
Member
Super backspin also makes it higher and more susceptible to wind. It was 100% a carry problem especially when looking at the yellow box. You took a risk, it didn't pan out.
Fluffhead14
Member
dude, the ball goes dead right off the tee, just look. judging from the second picture, it wasn't a carry problem, seeing as it cleared the part of the bunker that jutted out into the fairway. that ball landed in the bunker because he hit PI and RNG pushed him 10 yards right for no reason.
http://imgur.com/a/Lzlyi
Why where you hitting underneath the ball ? It goes higher in the in so it has less bounce. It makes sense that it went into the bunker . Plus you caught that edge which effects where it bounces.
I am in Imperial Gardens and these 20 ft differences have not occurred yet .
Edit: And with a driver.....
I just realised Im playing this as a F2P game.
- Each day I collect my prize from yesterdays match.
- I play the open course bonus round to earn a moustache
- I go through each online course just to pick up coins and gems (and I dont even know what to do with them yet)
Its crazy. Why am I running around like an idiot to find gems and coins - you should be earning those playing golf. Or not needing them in the first place (for gems)
- Each day I collect my prize from yesterdays match.
- I play the open course bonus round to earn a moustache
- I go through each online course just to pick up coins and gems (and I dont even know what to do with them yet)
Its crazy. Why am I running around like an idiot to find gems and coins - you should be earning those playing golf. Or not needing them in the first place (for gems)
RecRoulette
Member
This is why I stopped playing the daily tournaments lol. Felt more like an obligation than something I enjoyed doing.
This is a perfect example of the issue. Not understanding why this is even a thing. Why implement this? An added layer of RNG for difficulty purposes?
Fluffhead14
Member
i have like 10,000 coins and haven't bought anything except some bait.
RecRoulette
Member
We sort of talked about this yesterday. You went for the super backspin, which makes this happen more frequently.
You don't learn this until the Rank 6 quiz.
W...what?
Thats honestly stupid. Why on earth would they neglect to tell you something as important as this until you've progressed to level 6?
RecRoulette
Member
Yeah, insane right?
One of the questions is "Which type of spin can affect the accuracy of your shot?" Or something like that, and the answer is backspin. Backspin is the only spin type that does this.
I guess it's to keep you from using backspin on every approach shot (guilty), but I really wish they didn't wait until late game to drop that fact on you.
Edit Here's the dialogue talking about it (the answer to the question is backspin). Not 100 percent sure that's what's happening here. But backspin having an effect on this would explain it a lot more than random RNG. It's just way more extreme in this game vs previous games.
Not quite true, they tell you backspin negatively impacts control in the last quiz. But you can do backspin earlier including super backspin. It's Super, Super Spin that you learn late.
RecRoulette
Member
Sorry if I wasn't clear. I meant you don't learn that backspin messes up your control until the last quiz.
Latvian Hitman
Member
Is this your first "Shots" game? I don't mean to ask that in a condescending way- I know it may sound catty. I ask because this is a new thing to the series. Online tourneys/leaderboards are not.
Previous games, IMO, featured much tougher courses. I also think PI's are easier to hit than previous entries and the pink area is more forgiving- though that could all be placebo.
In any case- I would argue for tougher courses and a less forgiving shot meter over a random number generator 8 days a week. I kind of can't believe I'm seeing people argue in favor of RNG over a higher skill curve.
SkyTurnsRed
Banned
If I hit with PI, shouldn't that negate backspin's control issues?
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