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TheHeretic · Mar 23, 2011

ShockingAlberto said:
For whatever it's worth, I naturally assume legal counsel for a corporate entity will fight viciously for their client and will do whatever they can to paint the opposition in a bad light. That's what they do. Believing them wholesale speaks to such a level of sycophancy that I struggle to even put it in to words.

In the OT Corporations are the birth spawn of Satan, in this thread a Corporations legal PR, designed to exaggerate any claims to the nth degree (as any serious lawyer would do) is reality. Its schizophrenic and in the end it doesn't say positive things about the posters here, or the user-base as a whole.

MrPliskin said:
I believe people are more concerned that he asked for donations, and then (in poor taste) went on a Vacation. It means he either had enough money to go on a vacation, or he used donated funds to take a vacation.

Either way, from this point of view, it looks like poor form and bad behavior, and certainly not someone I want representing my consumer rights.

On the other hand, this could have been long planned, though I find that unlikely, but still possible.

Right. Being overseas does not equate to being on vacation. Theres no evidence that he paid for the trip, or that it was booked post the legal dispute, and from whence the money came is unknown. It only looks bad to people posting on an internet forum, his explanation of events is what will matter in court.

ShockingAlberto · Mar 23, 2011

jling84 said:
Well look at it this way. If he had his own personal funds for a vacation, why didn't those funds go toward the legal defense?

Is that evidence or just a conclusion that's being drawn from the sequence of events?

I believe people are more concerned that he asked for donations, and then (in poor taste) went on a Vacation. It means he either had enough money to go on a vacation, or he used donated funds to take a vacation.

Is that evidence or just a conclusion that's being drawn from the sequence of events?

Speevy · Mar 23, 2011

He has traveled to Sony's manufacturing plant, to hack consoles at the source.

It's the only way.

Lothars · Mar 23, 2011

jorma said:
He is a representative of anyone who wants to modify their own property to their own liking rather than the liking of the corporate entity who produced it. The only thing that potentially denies people doing just that is the DMCA. Cheering for Sony (and thus the DMCA) in this case - just because you dislike geohots - is baffling to me.

because Geohot isn't the one that's gonna change anything, chances are he's going to lose but he doesn't deserve the support he's got in the first place, there are lobbies and other places that deserve the attention to fight DMCA but Geohot has never been one of them.

Mama Robotnik · Mar 23, 2011

-Pyromaniac- said:
Who wants to bet the Geohotz defense force are furiously googling looking for evidence that this isn't a big deal at all and that he is doing it on purpose to mess with Sony and knows what he is doing.

TheChillyAcademic said:
Poor MamaRobotnick...

RustyNails said:
There's a severe lack of mamarobotnik and phosphor in this thread. Where are those two?

Guys, I commented on this development before you all did.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=26663220&postcount=4072

Just got back in and will address further posts in a moment, but please don't say I'm avoiding the discussions when its a lie. We're better than that.

Fixed1979 · Mar 23, 2011

ShockingAlberto said:
The evidence is the data, not the physical harddrive.

It would be tampering with evidence in the same way that, if you had to supply a briefcase full of papers to the DA, but did not give them the key combination to open the lock. They'd have to spend an extra step opening the lock.

Yeah, he's fucking with Sony. That's kind of childish. It's not evidence tampering.

I thought they asked for the HDD and he tampered with the HDD. Guess we'd need to see the request in order to know for sure.

Dambrosi · Mar 23, 2011

Evlar said:
Really? Where is the evidence for this?

EDIT: For clarity.

According to statements made by the defence attorney, at least they and the prosecuting attorney both knew he was out of the country. It was in a previous post.

I would assume that, if they both knew, then of course the judge knew about it as well (why would they withhold it?). That's why I'm bewildered as to where people are getting the idea that Geohot "fled" anywhere from a civil case. He probably booked the vacation months before this case kicked off, and there's no evidence whatsoever that he's using donated funds to pay for it.

Until there is, people should just quiet down and wait.

RustyNails · Mar 23, 2011

lifa-cobex said:
So he just went on holiday?
That's still not something you should be saying after asking for donations

He's gonna come back pretty soon and say his trip was financed with other means and the donations went fully to the legal fund. His defenders will eat it up.

ViolentP · Mar 23, 2011

The lesson learned from this debacle is pretty obvious: never give your money to a douche.

MrPliskin · Mar 23, 2011

ShockingAlberto said:
The evidence is the data, not the physical harddrive.

It would be tampering with evidence in the same way that, if you had to supply a briefcase full of papers to the DA, but did not give them the key combination to open the lock. They'd have to spend an extra step opening the lock.

Yeah, he's fucking with Sony. That's kind of childish. It's not evidence tampering.

Semantics.

He still "tampered" with what they requested, the HDD.

I NEED SCISSORS · Mar 23, 2011

I'll wait and see before passing judgement - at the moment it's just an allegation by Sony and we haven't heard the judge's say. If he is in South America yet falls within the terms and conditions of the court (like the article says), then he has done nothing wrong - just as long as he comes back again. Evidence tampering is another wait and see situation, as it can be argued that it's just as much of an incomplete submission as it is "tampering". The data is still intact, unless Geohot really is stupid. As for the donations, it is shitty to ask for more money to fight Sony when he obviously had enough to go on holiday - but then that is why I didn't donate in the first place.

There, i've had my say on the matter - I see Zoe and MrPliskin are already on site so it's time to bail out.

RustyNails · Mar 23, 2011

Mama Robotnik said:
Guys, I commented on this development before you all did.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=26663220&postcount=4072

Just got back in and will address further posts in a moment, but please don't say I'm avoiding the discussions when its a lie. We're better than that.

I knew you'd show up

I miss your and Phosphor's back and forth.

Melchiah · Mar 23, 2011

TOAO_Cyrus said:
And its not childish and moronic for Sony to go through all this trouble to prove jurisdiction in CA just to make it harder and more expensive for him to defend himself? Why is he called out when Sony is cheered for stinking it to that "moron"?

I don't believe this counts as tempering with evidence because the evidence is the data not the hardware. As long as he complied with the letter of the order he won't get in trouble. We will see what the Judge thinks though.

The difference here is, that Sony hasn't done anything against the court order, or broken any laws, or tampered with evidence, or fled after begging for donations. If the law allows the guy to be sued in CA, why wouldn't they (or anyone for that matter) choose to do so if it serves their interest.

Tampering with evidence doesn't solely mean altering/erasing evidence. Deliberately making it harder to inspect the evidence falls into that category as well.

-Pyromaniac- · Mar 23, 2011

Mama Robotnik said:
Guys, I commented on this development before you all did.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=26663220&postcount=4072

Just got back in and will address further posts in a moment, but please don't say I'm avoiding the discussions when its a lie. We're better than that.

I'm just joshin' giving a hard time. Except for me thinking he's a douche, that remains.

ha1f · Mar 23, 2011

Zoe said:
Common sense dictates that if you're broke enough to have to turn to the internet so that you won't be broke for the rest of your life, you shouldn't be spending money flying and staying out of the country.

I don't remember him saying "I'm flat broke" anywhere in his plea for donations. He simply made a post asking people to donate to his cause.

ViolentP said:
Let's say he had 13k in the bank before this ordeal started. He then takes 13k in donations for legal defense fees. Then he uses his original 13k to go on vacation. Fair game?

Absolutely, as long as he doesn't use any of the money donated to him to go on the vacation.

A lot of people who support geohot don't think this kid should have been sued in the first place. I'm sure they're more than happy to come out of pocket to cancel out his legal fees.

Jomjom · Mar 23, 2011

MrPliskin said:
I believe people are more concerned that he asked for donations, and then (in poor taste) went on a Vacation. It means he either had enough money to go on a vacation, or he used donated funds to take a vacation.

Either way, from this point of view, it looks like poor form and bad behavior, and certainly not someone I want representing my consumer rights.

On the other hand, this could have been long planned, though I find that unlikely, but still possible.

Even if the trip was planned in advance that really is no excuse. You can simply forfeit the trip. By going on the trip, he is incurring additional costs with each and every day (or do we think he's begging on the streets of Argentina for money for his trip + legal fees), that he supposedly does not have.

Speevy · Mar 23, 2011

"Guys, don't worry. I made a completely separate donation site for the disaster in Japan. That's what I used to go on vacation."

DarkKyo · Mar 23, 2011

LOL! So, so awesome. Take it Sony. Take it up your dumb corporate asshole.

Edit: oh, he didn't flee? Just vacation? Alrighty...

ShockingAlberto · Mar 23, 2011

MrPliskin said:
Semantics.

He still "tampered" with what they requested, the HDD.

Do you have the request for evidence order handy? I'd love to give it a read.

RedNumberFive · Mar 23, 2011

Never let Lawyer-GAF represent you in court. Besides not knowing the legal definitions of "evidence tampering" and "fleeing the country", they want you to hand over all evidence and information lock, stock, and barrel. Maybe I'm crazy, but I seem to think that most lawyers would recommend that you hand over the bare minimum of information in legal proceedings.

RustyNails · Mar 23, 2011

I NEED SCISSORS said:
There, i've had my say on the matter - I see Zoe and MrPliskin are already on site so it's time to bail out.

Eh? I've been following Zoe's comments since the start of this whole thing and they're pretty non-fanboyish and non-inflammatory. I'm surprised.

lifa-cobex · Mar 23, 2011

Shambles said:
How long has this case been in progress? Usually I pay for my holidays about 6 months in advance. Or maybe I just booked it that far head, it's been a while and my memory isn't that great...

BobTheFork said:
People didn't think he was hiding in a shack fighting extradition, of course it's a holiday. The issue is him possibly taking the trip out of no-where to screw with the jurisdiction finding. I do agree that if he is taking donations then taking vacation or slowing down an expensive process is screwing with other people's money. He used his own for the trip? great, not use your own for the court case.

Well yea that's fine but I'm sure this holiday still requires spending money.

Personally is i was at the point of asking total strangers for cash. I would have to be stone broke.

Evlar · Mar 23, 2011

To the question of the hard drive controller: The third-party forensic investigators cannot be certain what hard drive controller was originally on the device, and therefore cannot provide one of their own. For all they know he could have been using one of these: http://www.informationweek.com/news/security/encryption/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=220200076 An Opal-compliant hardware-encrypted drive.

Shambles · Mar 23, 2011

RustyNails said:
He's gonna come back pretty soon and say his trip was financed with other means and the donations went fully to the legal fund. His defenders will eat it up.

So what you're saying that even if he has good reason he should be burned at the stake?

mentalfloss · Mar 23, 2011

Mama Robotnik said:
Guys, I commented on this development before you all did.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=26663220&postcount=4072

Just got back in and will address further posts in a moment, but please don't say I'm avoiding the discussions when its a lie. We're better than that.

Great post.

I had a feeling this thread was a bit pointed.

whitehawk · Mar 23, 2011

I don't fucking get this guy. Why couldn't he have say, released the hack while on a Library computer with brand new forum account and new emails. He would have been anonymous and been free of all this legal trouble. Now he's got a large corporation suing his ass.

BakedPigeon · Mar 23, 2011

Why are you guys assuming he used donated money to flea the country? How the fuck do you know what his bank roll is.

LordPhoque · Mar 23, 2011

I NEED SCISSORS said:
I'll wait and see before passing judgement - at the moment it's just an allegation by Sony

Which is like god's word for a lot in people in this thread, including OP.

GitarooMan · Mar 23, 2011

ShockingAlberto said:
Do you have the request for evidence order handy? I'd love to give it a read.

Do you? You seem pretty confident that they just asked for the data in the discovery, when it's just as likely they asked for the physical drives.

mentalfloss · Mar 23, 2011

BakedPigeon said:
Why are you guys assuming he used donated money to flea the country? How the fuck do you know what his bank roll is.

They don't.

But in a way, that's besides the point.

Jomjom · Mar 23, 2011

ShockingAlberto said:
Is that evidence or just a conclusion that's being drawn from the sequence of events?

Is that evidence or just a conclusion that's being drawn from the sequence of events?

It's neither evidence or a conclusion, it's a question. Now are there any logical, reasonable answers that would make this trip look prudent or possible if he truly had no funds as he claimed?

ha1f · Mar 23, 2011

whitehawk said:
I don't fucking get this guy. Why couldn't he have say, released the hack while on a Library computer with brand new forum account and new emails. He would have been anonymous and been free of all this legal trouble. Now he's got a large corporation suing his ass.

Fortune and glory, kid. Fortune and glory.

MrPliskin · Mar 23, 2011

ShockingAlberto said:
Do you have the request for evidence order handy? I'd love to give it a read.

Do you? Because as far as I'm concerned we've both done the exact same thing. The only major difference is that I'm standing on the side of what a logical adult would do, not what a spiteful arrogant child (age is irrelevant at this point) would do.

RustyNails said:
Eh? I've been following Zoe's comments since the start of this whole thing and they're pretty non-fanboyish and non-inflammatory. I'm surprised.

People will believe that if you don't agree with their opinion or cause, that you are clearly a corporate shill. It's common knowledge, here on GAF.

BobTheFork · Mar 23, 2011

jling84 said:
Even if the trip was planned in advance that really is no excuse. You can simply forfeit the trip. By going on the trip, he is incurring additional costs with each and every day (or do we think he's begging on the streets of Argentina for money for his trip + legal fees), that he supposedly does not have.

Honestly, if he using other people's money then anything he does to slow down the case is kind of disrespectful to those people. If he's right and he has a case then get you butt in the courtroom as fast as you can and prove it.

Evlar · Mar 23, 2011

Dambrosi said:
According to statements made by the defence attorney, at least they and the prosecuting attorney both knew he was out of the country. It was in a previous post.

I would assume that, if they both knew, then of course the judge knew about it as well (why would they withhold it?). That's why I'm bewildered as to where people are getting the idea that Geohot "fled" anywhere from a civil case. He probably booked the vacation months before this case kicked off, and there's no evidence whatsoever that he's using donated funds to pay for it.

Until there is, people should just quiet down and wait.

They knew about at as of the date on that letter, which appears to be written when he was already gone. When did Hotz leave the country? I have seen no evidence that they knew he was leaving beforehand.

BY2K · Mar 23, 2011

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iUvuaChDEg&feature=player_embedded

Never saw that.

What the fuck is he thinking? Is it some kind of joke to him?

MarshMellow96 · Mar 23, 2011

jling84 said:
It's neither evidence or a conclusion, it's a question. Now are there any logical, reasonable answers that would make this trip look prudent or possible if he truly had no funds as he claimed?

His mum paid for it.

But then that raises other questions..

bhlaab · Mar 23, 2011

Snipes424 said:
I am curious, to the people who donated money to him, how do you feel now?

If I had donated money to him, I'd probably feel good that he used it to flee the country instead of a futile court case against a huge global corporation.

I NEED SCISSORS · Mar 23, 2011

BakedPigeon said:
Why are you guys assuming he used donated money to flea the country? How the fuck do you know what his bank roll is.

I support Geohot, but it's just as bad if he already has money yet continued to ask for more.

Treefingers · Mar 23, 2011

whitehawk said:
I don't fucking get this guy. Why couldn't he have say, released the hack while on a Library computer with brand new forum account and new emails. He would have been anonymous and been free of all this legal trouble. Now he's got a large corporation suing his ass.

He's an attention whore, that's why.

lupinko · Mar 23, 2011

Geohot leaving the country is not an allegation from Sony, it's from Geohot's own lawyers themselves.

smh

Jomjom · Mar 23, 2011

BakedPigeon said:
Why are you guys assuming he used donated money to flea the country? How the fuck do you know what his bank roll is.

We know because he said he doesn't have money to pay legal fees. It's as simple as that.

yamo · Mar 23, 2011

Chacranajxy said:
It limits him to the countries of South America, South Africa, and South Asia.

Dont forget South Pole!

TheHeretic · Mar 23, 2011

jling84 said:
It's neither evidence or a conclusion, it's a question. Now are there any logical, reasonable answers that would make this trip look prudent or possible if he truly had no funds as he claimed?

When did he claim he had no money? He statement was that he had $10,000 in legal bills and was asking for assistance in paying them.

RustyNails · Mar 23, 2011

Shambles said:
So what you're saying that even if he has good reason he should be burned at the stake?

Methinks there is absolutely no good reason to take a vacation in the middle of a legal battle, while asking for donations for a legal fund to finance your lawyers. Taking a vacation means you had money stashed somewhere, which then means that he wasn't being completely honest when asking for donations. I simply see no way to crawl out of this hole but I also admit that don't know the full story. Maybe his grandma was on her deathbed in Rio. Who knows.

TOAO_Cyrus · Mar 23, 2011

borghe said:
you are correct. however he released copyrighted code on the internet (private keys), violated DMCA (for or against, it currently IS the law), as well as possibly broke terms of service of PSN if he in fact accessed PSN with a modified system.

but yes, someone is able to do whatever they want with their own system if it is never distributed in any form (i.e. even given to friends)

Numbers cant be copyrighted and only trademarked under specific circumstances, thats why Intel moved away from the x86 naming scheme and invented the word Pentium, so releasing those keys was not copyright infringement. You can modify your own system and should be allowed to distribute the means to do it. The latter is what the DMCA targets and what this case is all about.

JWong · Mar 23, 2011

Who is our resident GAF lawyer?

Jomjom · Mar 23, 2011

MarshMellow96 said:
His mum paid for it.

But then that raises other questions..

So his mom told him, I'm giving you this money, but you are not allowed to use it on anything but the trip ok honey? I know you have this huge legal case, but in no circumstances are you allowed to use this on the case ok? Have fun in South America!

Dreams-Visions · Mar 23, 2011

hyp said:
haters get served a peace sign.

http://psx-scene.com/forums/f6/geohot-flees-south-america-83925/

this thread is now hilarious.

Wallach · Mar 23, 2011

ShockingAlberto said:
The evidence is the data, not the physical harddrive.

It would be tampering with evidence in the same way that, if you had to supply a briefcase full of papers to the DA, but did not give them the key combination to open the lock. They'd have to spend an extra step opening the lock.

Yeah, he's fucking with Sony. That's kind of childish. It's not evidence tampering.

Wouldn't he be fucking with the judge that ordered him to provide the hard drive to be copied by the neutral party? Seems like a bad idea.

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