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New York Times Op Ed: Super Mario Run’s Not-So-Super Gender Politics

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M

Makonero

Member
I actually first heard this view on Chris Suellentrop and JJ Sutherland's excellent podcast, "Shall We Play A Game." I really thought they both went too far in saying they wouldn't let their kids play Super Mario Run because of the gender politics.

But here's what Chris says in his Op-Ed piece:

Unfortunately, despite Nintendo’s history and reputation, Super Mario Run is not a family-friendly game — or at least not one my wife and I will be letting our 6-year-old daughter play. The game is rife with stale, retrograde gender stereotypes — elements that were perhaps expected in 1985, when the first Super Mario Bros. was released in the United States, but that today are just embarrassing.

Super Mario Run begins, as does almost every Super Mario title, with Princess Peach becoming a hostage who must be rescued by Mario. Just before her ritual kidnapping, Peach invites Mario to her castle and pledges to bake him a cake. Upon her rescue, she kisses Mario. The game also includes a second female character, Toadette, whose job is to wave a flag before and after a race, like a character from “Grease.”
Click to expand...

More at the link: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/22/opinion/super-mario-runs-not-so-super-gender-politics.html?_r=0
 
H

hiim_haz

Banned
I mean this is like the last thing I think about when I play a Mario game... but I guess I can see their point of view as to why it'd be embarrassing.
 
H

Hero

Member
Makonero said:
I actually first heard this view on Chris Suellentrop and JJ Sutherland's excellent podcast, "Shall We Play A Game." I really thought they both went too far in saying they wouldn't let their kids play Super Mario Run because of the gender politics.

But here's what Chris says in his Op-Ed piece:



More at the link: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/22/opinion/super-mario-runs-not-so-super-gender-politics.html?_r=0
Click to expand...

I mean, I can understand their concerns and would recommend they get their children Super Mario 3D World. A much better game.
 
B

BY2K

Membero Americo
He does realize both Peach and Toadette are playable, right?

This is Captain Toad all over again.
 
J

JoeM86

Member
I don't understand... are games not allowed to have female characters being kidnapped anymore without it being regarded as sexist?

BY2K said:
He does realize both Peach and Toadette are playable, right?

This is Captain Toad all over again.
Click to expand...

He does, but he says that it treats them like prizes for you to unlock

But Super Mario Run relegates its female characters to positions of near helplessness. Peach and Toadette become playable only after you complete certain tasks, which makes the women in the game feel like prizes. (To be fair, the same is true of a few male characters.) Worse, should you then use Peach to defeat her kidnapper, Bowser, you’ll discover that neither Mario nor a kiss is waiting for her as a reward.
Click to expand...
 
P

Peru

Member
In most cases I'd agree, but there's one universal truth: Mario platformers need to start with Bowser kidnapping Peach
 
R

rhandino

Banned
The game also includes a second female character, Toadette, whose job is to wave a flag before and after a race, like a character from “Grease.”
Click to expand...
cheryl18dsi0.gif
 
I

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
The extremity of identity based politics.

Its just a mario game folks, put down the pitch forks. I would consider myself a pretty staunch progressive in most respects, but this kind of thinking is just regressive and generally close minded.

The supposed most tolerant of people are starting to become the most intolerant of literally everything not in the safe space.
 
A

AntMurda

Member
I can see someone making a point about it, but banning the game because it's not family friendly is a harsh delusional fantasy.
 
M

maxcriden

Member
Interesting take, I have a blind spot for Nintendo admittedly and didn't think of this. Mario is not their most progressive franchise, though it was great to see Peach take on a starring role again in 3DW (though even then you have several damsels in distress).

I will say this has got to be the first and only time Toadette is compared to a character from Grease.

I thought I'd read she was going to be playable in the game as an unlockable character, that there was some indication of that. Is that not the case?

Edit: I see this was addressed above. Thanks guys. I would have thought including them as playable characters would alleviate the concern. Typically you only hear about sexualized female characters being unlocks being seen as problematic or societally misogynist, so I'm surprised they framed it as an "unlocking as problematic prize" issue for this game.
 
jchap

jchap

Member
I agree. Done with the franchise until non white-washed Peach is saving a gender fluid muslim luigi from white supremissist bowser
 
L

LordKano

Member
Hero said:
I mean, I can understand their concerns and would recommend they get their children Super Mario 3D World. A much better game.
Click to expand...

It's even worse. In SM3DW you have a rich, capitalist and pro-republican in the person of Bowser, kidnapping little pixie girls in his bottle and reduce them in slave to build his huge tower, akin to the Trump Tower, which serves absolutely no purpose except costing money for the sake of it.

Deeply rooted in the modern US culture. Mario is pictured as hope for communism to emerge. As an US citizen, I feel outraged by what these japaneses are trying to sell to our kids.
 
P

Phatcorns

Member
Man. I've been out of the US for the last two weeks and I was talking to people about how to sum my country up. And it's we make a national pastime out of being offended.
Whenever I see articles like this I can't help but give it a huge snore.

Pick your battles man. Mario Run is not where the battle for gender equality will be won.
 
J

JoeM86

Member
maxcriden said:
Interesting take, I have a blind spot for Nintendo admittedly and didn't think of this. Mario is not their most progressive franchise, though it was great to see Peach take on a starring role again in 3DW (though even then you have several damsels in distress).

I will say this has got to be the first and only time Toadette is compared to a character from Grease.

I thought I'd read she was going to be playable in the game as an unlockable character, that there was some indication of that. Is that not the case?
Click to expand...

Toadette is unlockable.
 
DR2K

DR2K

Banned
Do they just blind fold their kid whenever a Disney Movie or cartoon come on that portrays female characters in need of help?
 
A

Alienous

Member
Nintendo really need to get past the kidnapped princess trope. In general I don't mind developers telling the story they want to tell but their games have a huge child audience and I don't think that's a helpful trope, potentially even a harmful trope, to expose children to. If only to make sure girls don't feel excluded from games as a medium.
 
M

meppi

Member
Seems like a lame attempt to create a new controversy and get some more hits.

I mean, who the hell even comes up with that kinda stuff. :-/
 
M

maxcriden

Member
JoeM86 said:
Toadette is unlockable.
Click to expand...

Thanks Joe, I edited my post thanks to you and BY2K. :)

Here's what I wrote--

Edit: I see this was addressed above. Thanks guys. I would have thought including them as playable characters would alleviate the concern. Typically you only hear about sexualized female characters being unlocks being seen as problematic or societally misogynist, so I'm surprised they framed it as an "unlocking as problematic prize" issue for this game.
 
P

PixelatedBookake

Junior Member
Makonero said:
I actually first heard this view on Chris Suellentrop and JJ Sutherland's excellent podcast, "Shall We Play A Game." I really thought they both went too far in saying they wouldn't let their kids play Super Mario Run because of the gender politics.

But here's what Chris says in his Op-Ed piece:



More at the link: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/22/opinion/super-mario-runs-not-so-super-gender-politics.html?_r=0
Click to expand...

Why let Super Mario Run be his hill to die on for gender politics in gaming? This sounds like a Kotaku article.
 
D

dralla

Member
hiim_haz said:
I mean this is like the last thing I think about when I play a Mario game... but I guess I can see their point of view as to why it'd be embarrassing.
Click to expand...

You're also an adult. Kids are not so aware of issues like this and are easily impressionable. My four year old nephew loves Mario and I can see these types of tropes have seeped into his subconscious by comments he's made about playing as girl characters and princesses. Nintendo (and everyone else) should really drop the damsel in distress trope.
 
R

rochellepaws

Member
They're right on Peach's capture and general helpless personality but it's down to the fact that Nintendo haven't changed anything with the characters, plot or motivations in the Mario universe since the mid 90's. The toadette part is silly.
 
L

Lights and Waves

Member
The Toadette bit is kinda funny tbh. I never thought of her as a sexy race car kind of chick!

I get where the author is coming from, but with Peach and Toadette being playable - and the Mario games proving countless times that Peach is capable and strong - I don't see the harm in letting Mario rescue her again, especially since you can play as Peach.
 
T

The Boat

Member
This is especially funny when Nintendo makes appealing to women a priority, has tons of female consumers and loads of playable female characters in their recent games. Oh but Peach was kidnapped, so I guess it doesn't matter.
 
C

convo

Member
Well one can unlock both Peach and Toadette as playable characters but it requires more than a little effort. Don't see most people getting to that point.
 
O

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
"Like a character from Grease"

Yeah, sorry kids, Nintendo went too far this time
 
D

DarkConfidant

Member
Yeah, I definitely though about it after I unlocked Peach.

Peach is a much better platformer than Mario is, yet she gets kidnapped and proceeds to do jackshit all game.
Toadette just seemed to be a tutorial and flag waver. She doesn't really do much, and I forget she exists, as a character, often.
It just kinda seemed dumb today, though maybe as a kid I thought nothing of it, since I saw princesses being kidnapped in all sorts of places.

I just tell myself that Peach really isn't in danger, and she just lets Mario thinik that he's helping her, when she really isn't kidnapped, and is assisting her Prime Minister Bowser Koopa with running her Mushroom Kingdom. Like a boss.

It's strange that Nintendo of all companies, one that brought so many young girls into games with the DS family of systems, has such a Dona Reed female lead in their flagship franchise.
 
M

Manoko

Member
Social justice warriors' aim at this point seem to be ruining everything that don't fit into the very limited "safe space" they produced.

It's crazy we've come to this point.
I agree the Mario franchise could be better on that front, but why would you judge it so harshly ?
 
I

Intel_89

Member
Should have a Maria option where you'd save prince Pineapple from Bowserina. Diversity is great and all but there's no need to change Mario.
 
L

LambdaTeos

Member
This dude sounds so full of his own, like he can't stand living as himself...

Honestly, what the eff?

This is new....

Also, I thought "family friendly"? was a term used to identify games with no violence nor sensible topi- oh wait... we live in a "i feel effing affected by everything and everyone and everything should change" era...
 
K

Kusagari

Member
He's right that the Peace gets kidnapped trope is tired, but the article in general is a massive reach looking for outrage.
 
L

Lothars

Member
rochellepaws said:
They're right on Peach's capture and general helpless personality but it's down to the fact that Nintendo haven't changed anything with the characters, plot or motivations in the Mario universe since the mid 90's. The toadette part is silly.
Click to expand...
I don't think they are right. I think trying to create controversy on something that doesn't need it.

It's a bad article no ways around it.
 
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