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[The Scrivener]

Riiiiiiiiiiiiight...

 

[muteki]

Toadette is totally a Race Queen/Grid Girl. smh Nintendo.

 

[takriel]

It's true. I don't really like this, as well. It's unnecessarily out-of-date.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

Chris: "You can't play this game because its gender politics are offensive and archaic."

Daughter: "But it says YOU'RE playing it a lot. I thought you found the game offensive?"

Chris: "Well, not offensive enough to stop playing it."

 

[RichiRamjag]

The extremity of identity based politics.

Its just a mario game folks, put down the pitch forks. I would consider myself a pretty staunch progressive in most respects, but this kind of thinking is just regressive and generally close minded.

The supposed most tolerant of people are starting to become the most intolerant of literally everything not in the safe space.

Pretty much where things are going. I rarely disagree with these topics as people are free to feel how they like, but this is taking it a bit far.

I would hope the author knows that making this kind of extreme article just hurts actual social causes and moves the discourse away from far more important topics relating to social advancement, and into a realm of nonsense that can be easily disputed.

The worst kind of 'boy cried wolf' scenario.

And these kinds of folks do nothing but exacerbate and strengthen the argument of the alt right movement.

But of course i don't expect much from outlets like NYT these days in terms of actual issues. Or most establishment media in general really.

Well said.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I would hope the author knows that making this kind of extreme article just hurts actual social causes and moves the discourse away from far more important topics relating to social advancement, and into a realm of nonsense that can be easily disputed.

The worst kind of 'boy cried wolf' scenario.

And these kinds of folks do nothing but exacerbate and strengthen the argument of the alt right movement.

But of course i don't expect much from outlets like NYT these days in terms of actual issues. Or most establishment media in general really.

 

[New002]

The authors were so preoccupied on whether or not they could that they never stopped to think if they should.

The princess is distress is not an inherently bad trope in fiction. In Mario (and Donkey Kong before it), it exists only as a superficial motivator to tell the player Mario = Good, Bowser = bad, you the player should overcome obstacles to vanquish the bad guy. There is no deeper story to be found in Mario fiction.

Mario has been consistently inclusive as a franchise, with playable female characters in nearly every spin-off franchise (Kart, Smash, RPG, numerous Mario Bros games), and Princess Peach has even had her own game where she saves Mario & gang!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Princess_Peach

Being inclusive means also being accepting of male protagonists in stereotypical (even fictional) gender roles - because it's part of the fabric of our society. Cutting yourself off (or cutting your children off) from all such instances is being close-minded and sexist to the other extreme.

Wtf...How did I miss that Peach game!? Time to check eBay...

 

[Trail Guide]

I would be more concerned for my daughter that we have elected a man who can grope woman and get away with it president over Peach's gender roles, and a Toadette "Grease" comparison.

 

[lensoftruth]

It's true. I don't really like this, as well. It's unnecessarily out-of-date.

You don't like grease?

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Yeah...I think I'm just going to observe this thread from the sidelines before I get banned again

 

[Zombie James]

Accusing Nintendo of making a Mario game that isn't family friendly is the most stupid and idiotic thing I've heard all year and it's been a long year.

 

[JoeM86]

Nintendo is an old-fashioned conservative japanese company. I don't expect them to progress to modern standards any time soon. It is disappointing, though.

You do realise Nintendo, of late, has been having playable female characters, put the female characters at the forefront and everything.

Of course, they're not perfect, but let's not act like they're not doing anything.

 

[obeythed1734]

There was a post on reddit yesterday created by a woman living in the Middle East entitled "Western women, help me understand" - I suggest the author of this shit stain give it a read. Jesus.

 

[Easy_D]

The authors were so preoccupied on whether or not they could that they never stopped to think if they should.

The princess is distress is not an inherently bad trope in fiction. In Mario (and Donkey Kong before it), it exists only as a superficial motivator to tell the player Mario = Good, Bowser = bad, you the player should overcome obstacles to vanquish the bad guy. There is no deeper story to be found in Mario fiction.

Mario has been consistently inclusive as a franchise, with playable female characters in nearly every spin-off franchise (Kart, Smash, RPG, numerous Mario Bros games), and Princess Peach has even had her own game where she saves Mario & gang!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Princess_Peach

Being inclusive means also being accepting of male protagonists in stereotypical (even fictional) gender roles - because it's part of the fabric of our society. Cutting yourself off (or cutting your children off) from all such instances is being close-minded and sexist to the other extreme.

To be fair, Super Princess Peach isn't really a *great* example given that her super-power is literally mood swings.

 

[Barry Burton]

Lefting so hard, they're careening back around to the right. Poor kid.

Yep.

 

[Skatterd]

When one side is too busy arguing about who is more moral, the other side wins.

 

[Obliterator]

It's starting to become difficult to recognize what is parody and real anymore. If someone showed someone else this article 5 years ago people would think it was something straight out of The Onion.

 

[Avixph]

Have we been living in the same world as of recently ?



Basically what this article is.

I said "what?" at the fact that you actually used the word in a serious tone.

 

[takoyaki]

Sigh...

I'm always for more playable, female characters in games and think it's amazing that the cover-art of Overwatch features a powerful, gay, female character.

In the future, Nintendo should just add a female character named Maria who has to rescue Prince Plumber from Bowser who wants him to work without payment in his castle for all of eternity. It's still the same old trope, just gender-swapped and if only one young girl thinks this would make the game better/more approachable for her, I'm all for it.

edit: they should also add a few skin-tone templates similar to emoji. I don't think it would take away anything from Mario games, the red outfit is iconic enough and inclusiveness is always commendable.

And just to clarify, I think the author has a point; it's just the phrasing -"not a family-friendly game' - that's rubbing me the wrong way.

 

[kadotsu]

I would hope the author knows that making this kind of extreme article just hurts actual social causes and moves the discourse away from far more important topics relating to social advancement, and into a realm of nonsense that can be easily disputed.

The worst kind of 'boy cried wolf' scenario.

And these kinds of folks do nothing but exacerbate and strengthen the argument of the alt right movement.

But of course i don't expect much from outlets like NYT these days in terms of actual issues. Or most establishment media in general really.

Just FYI, they will write the most snarky shit on twitter the day Planned Parenthood will get defunded. Then they will further push the progressive agenda by refusing any compromise on electable candidates because we need to be perfect before we can start changing anything. They are heroes.

 

[SOLDIER]

This is the new "______ was dead the whole time" argument, isn't it.

 

[SweetDonuts]

Sad when things like Mario get criticised for nonsense when I'm sure there are actual problems they could be writing about and bringing attention to. I could understand if the piece was on gaming as a whole, but to target one of the most innocent games ever is absurd.

Seeing people like yourself depicted as heroic on TV and in movies and video games can have a powerful effect on viewers and players

lol is anyone looking at Mario and thinking they identify with him? that's not really a concern when it comes to this type of game.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

He does realize both Peach and Toadette are playable, right?

This is Captain Toad all over again.

Not only is Toadette playable but she seems to get bonus points in Toad Rally just for being Toadette.
They'd probably spin that into Toadette being exploited because of her body.
Stupid-as-fuck article taking on an old staple of the series and over analyzing it.
Why don't they do a piece on what a complete badass Samus is???
When you look for drama, you can find something on anything.

 

[hodgy100]

i find it hard to care about mario when it comes to gender politics it is pretty innocuous. I wouldnt say any of the representations are overtly negative.

It is however interesting to dissect these tropes and analyse how culture influenced the game and world of Mario to be why it is. its just a product that is influenced by our culture and represents a couple of not progressive tropes that exist within it. but i wouldn't say its a harmful representation or said tropes and it isn't regressive.

 

[Godzilla's Left Toe]

Yawn

 

[Foffy]

"Unfortunately, despite Nintendo’s history and reputation, Super Mario Run is not a family-friendly game — or at least not one my wife and I will be letting our 6-year-old daughter play."

Is it bad I giggled? What the fuck is this?

 

[Kurdel]

Mario has been consistently inclusive as a franchise, with playable female characters in nearly every spin-off franchise (Kart, Smash, RPG, numerous Mario Bros games), and Princess Peach has even had her own game where she saves Mario & gang!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Princess_Peach

I mean, Nintendo giving her a game where her emotions are her powers isn't really making a strong female leading character.

 

[Dr. Zoidberg]

I understand where they are coming from. Really I do, but there are many examples of strong women in other games and media people can look to. Does every game have to buck gender stereotypes or is it just the most popular ones? Some women do love to bake cakes and would not fight their own way out of a hostage situation. Should they not be represented or should they be ignored because of their shameful adherence to society's norms? "Save the princess" is certainly an overdone trope, but given that there are alternate representations of women in other games, I don't feel like it is one that needs to be exterminated.

 

[CrashPrime]

Why didn't they cast multiple race and genders in popular acting rolls and let me choose who i identify with most to get the best experience?

Oh because an active decision was made to cast a certain way?

I might get steaked for my opinion but I flat out disagree.

Grease is an enjoyable movie too. Boom.

 

[Lijik]

I have to admit its a little weird you have to do so much work to unlock Toadette compared to the other characters with different skills when Im pretty sure shes just Mario with one hit instead of being able to collect mushrooms (maybe she has Toad's speed? It didnt feel like it). I dont see why she couldnt be unlocked at the start for people who didnt want to play as a male character.

The weird ending with a toad if you clear the final Bowser as Peach also stood out to me, but overall I cant say I really agree with the article though I get where theyre coming from.

EDIT- Oh I guess this is what her skill is lmao had no idea

Not only is Toadette playable but she seems to get bonus points in Toad Rally just for being Toadette.

 

[antibolo]

I kinda agree with the idea that Bowser kidnapping Peach is being way anachronistic at this point. While I certainly wouldn't go as far as ban my children from playing the game, I think it's a valid complaint.

3D World got rid of that plot point in favour of making Peach a primary playable character, and that was great, why go back on that now?

 

[MisterHero]

To be fair, Super Princess Peach isn't really a *great* example given that her super-power is literally mood swings.

If Hulk is allowed, Princess Peach Toadstool is allowed, OKAY

Also, she's harnessed half of the emotional spectrum

 

[rochellepaws]

I don't think they are right. I think trying to create controversy on something that doesn't need it.

It's a bad article no ways around it.

I'm sorry but the ruler of a kingdoms only characteristics being cake baking, screaming for help or kissing her saviour shouldn't sit well with anyone, with all 3 of those characteristics existing solely around eliciting a response from the main male character, Mario.

There's nothing wrong with criticising the antiquated role of Peach and it has been discussed and highlighted within games media for the best part of 15 years, long before "social justice warriors" were a thing.

 

[GhostWriter24]

What utter nonsense. I feel like you can sneeze and people will take offense these days.

 

[Kurdel]

If Hulk is allowed, Princess Peach Toadstool is allowed, OKAY

Find one person who would argue Hulk is a positive depiction of masculinity. Some people will defend that stupid Peach game to the grave.

 

[AuthenticM]

Have we been living in the same world as of recently ?



Basically what this article is.

wow, that bolded part is not true at all. "SJW" is used by misogynist and white supremacist assholes against anyone who promotes progressive views, especially feminism.

That wiki was probably written by someone who would use that term, to try to normalize it. Seriously.

 

[Skittzo0413]

lol is anyone looking at Mario and thinking they identify with him? that's not really a concern when it comes to this type of game.

Mario constantly shoving his facial hair in my face is subconsciously making my impressionable self want to grow out a massive mustache, yet doing so will greatly anger my wife. Mario ruined my marriage with his facial hair agenda.

 

[Geg]

Where's my fanart of Toadette in a sexy 50's outfit

 

[Askherserenity]

lol What is up with that Toadette/Grease comparison? The fuck

 

[Silver Arrows]

Social justice warriors' aim at this point seem to be ruining everything that don't fit into the very limited "safe space" they produced.

It's crazy we've come to this point.
I agree the Mario franchise could be better on that front, but why would you judge it so harshly ?

Have we been living in the same world as of recently ?



Basically what this article is.

It's pretty obvious as to what side of the spectrum you are on if you are using SJW non-ironiclly. And even if you weren't...just don't.

I said "what?" at the fact that you actually used the word in a serious tone.

It's pretty obvious where he falls if he is using SJW seriously.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Just FYI, they will write the most snarky shit on twitter the day Planned Parenthood will get defunded. Then they will further push the progressive agenda by refusing any compromise on electable candidates because we need to be perfect before we can start changing anything. They are heroes.

I literally have no idea what you are talking about in regards to anything.

 

[lensoftruth]

I mean, Nintendo giving her a game where her emotions are her powers isn't really making a strong female leading character.

Seems accurate tbf

 

[Razmos]

Jokes on them, Toadette is genderless

 

[Goose_Se7en]

You know sometimes enough is enough. This is Super Mario ffs. The coddling of the American mind at its finest.

 

[10k]

I'd honestly like to hear what female gaf members think of super Mario run, and this article in general.

My opinion is this guy is doing more harm than good. Let your six year old play the game and have some fun.

 

[Tripolygon]

Social justice warriors' aim at this point seem to be ruining everything that don't fit into the very limited "safe space" they produced.

It's crazy we've come to this point.
I agree the Mario franchise could be better on that front, but why would you judge it so harshly ?

Looking from outside in, some posts in this thread appears to be people who want a safe space for their beloved games, free from criticisms that affect us socially and otherwise. Some even go as far as using personal insults to attack him, same way Anita Sarkeesian was attacked for making similar observations.

Quite ironic.

 

[Japanmanx3]

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

Looking from outside in, some posts in this thread appears to be people who want a safe space for their beloved games, free from criticisms that affect us socially and otherwise. Some even go as far as using personal insults to attack him, same way Anita Sarkeesian was attacked for making similar observations.

Quite ironic.

This isn't as astute as you probably think it is.

 

[Scrawnton]

Looking from outside in, some posts in this thread appears to be people who want a safe space for their beloved games, free from criticisms that affect us socially and otherwise. Some even go as far as using personal insults to attack him, same way Anita Sarkeesian was attacked for making similar observations.

Quite ironic.

I don't think its people want a safe space for this game. It's that this view on this particular game is stretching at best.

This is another example of American media making a huge deal out of gender and sex issues while being okay with things like people getting shot in the face in gaming. There are battles to pick and this is not one of them. There are bigger fish to fry than a super mario game.

 

[Lil'DigiOp]

The west is straight up sensitivity land


Who the fuck is looking at a Mario game to be a bastion of strong female characterization? What woman is looking for their worth in a Mario game?

Fucking silly.