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'Zwarte Piet' Controversy Leads To 90 Arrests In Netherlands
- Thread starter maquiladora
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kurisu1974
Banned
Yeah and shit on the guy who at least attempts to add some historical context while we're at it.
Do you honestly believe that children participating in this are racists?
What does that have to do with anything? Are you saying that capitalism is being unfairly impugned because profits are being associated with death?
boiled goose
good with gravy
Nice goAl post moving.
Yeah there is no racism in the Netherlands nope.
you are so pathetically emotionally tied to your argument that now that you know you're wrong you still continue to embarrass yourself
This is off-topic, but I'm pretty sure when those threads inevitably get made many people express horror at the deaths and question why the idiotic day continues. Plenty of US Gaffers make fun of people that line up for these "deals."
Really? We're going there?
No. Not that but it is a strange tradition. Just like Zwarte Piet is over here...
http://people.howstuffworks.com/cul...ns/10-strange-american-traditions.htm#page=10
Brawndo Addict
Banned
What? You mean we can't continue a racist tradition without incident now that our population is no longer homogeneously white? What's the point of having a colonial and imperialist history if we can't pretend we exported all our racism to Africa?
yes, and where could one find moors and arabs? oh right, north africa
It's not my country, as I live in Belgium where we have the same tradition but no one at all protesting. Same goes for the northern regions of France btw.
His appearance actually makes a lot of sense. As people are saying, the chimney soot darkens his skin. And his lips might be swollen from the heat from inside the chimney. And it's hard to maintain good hair when it's constantly exposed to soot/ash, so it's pretty believable that it'd turn nappy/fro like over time.
No, they just have ignorant parents brainwashing them with a racist tradition that might inform their worldview into a racist one someday.
Of course there is racism here as well.
Souldriver
Member
Oh you.
Not the kids' fault If they were born into a household with racist traditions. There is st least hope they can grow out of it.
Sure there is, but it's not there because of Zwarte Piet, and stopping this tradition won't help one bit. On the contrary, I predict a lot of angry people will be voting for more extremist politicians next time, just because they got something taken away from them. Which is stupid, but still.
If these stereotypes are accepted by the children because the community surrounding them find it acceptable, then this is a problem. Racist? No.
Stop calling an entire country racist please. Thanks.
Then we agree. Mostly. I don't agree with the dramatic tone.
MWS Natural
Member
"80 years without issues."
- NOS: OM onderzoekt racistische reacties op selfie Oranje
[Context: Dutch football player makes selfie with his teammates and posted it on Facebook. People reply with "Team Monkey", "This the Dutch league?", Makes references to the people who were arrested in Gouda incident in the OP, reference to them being "Helper slaves" and more]
.
Those likes though. Not shocking that white Dutch gaffers are just as oblvious to racism in their country as white people in America.
boiled goose
good with gravy
Oh OK. all makes seNSE!
What about the fake accent some people wearing the makeup speak with?
No need to get salty over being on the wrong side. Learn and m9ve on.
Palette Swap
Member
Okay, I'll admit, I'm naive. I had no idea there was a racist traditions defense force.
OK. I'm sure you think you're making some sort of point, but I can't figure out what it is, other than "some people died while shopping in the US, therefore blackface, afros, and red lipstick don't represent a minstrel caricature of a black person."
I mean, if it's really just about a chimney sweep dirtied up with some soot, just ditch the lipstick and afro and have people wear soot makeup. Unless it isn't.
Did i call the whole country racist? Just some of the traditions.
The poster didn't?
boiled goose
good with gravy
Exactly. pathetically predictable salt when an argument has been lost.
I normally don't post in Zwarte Piet threads. But I do want to ask you kindly not to call my family racist because we celebrate Sinterklaas. That would be great.
It's called Black Friday because of accounting. When you're gaining profit, you're in the black, and numbers are written in black. When you're losing money, you're in the red, and numbers are written in red. With Black Friday being the largest shopping day of the year, a lot of stores see it as the day they move into the black, they start to make a profit.
Ingueferroque
Banned
Wow.
I can understand how this tradition may, can, and does offend some people. And I'm definitely open to it changing and adapting for this bigger world we live in today.
But I will never agree with the reasoning that those participating have therefore any conscious inclination towards racism. It is devaluing the term, which happens far too often these days.
The coal dust and ash got in their throats.
You know how people get a hoarse voice after smoking for years? I imagine inhaling soot/ash over a lifetime will have the same effect.
Do you believe children who grow up using the words "Retard" and "Gay" as slurs are really homophobic or have a deep seated hatred for the mentally challenged?
Do you think you still think using those terms as epithets is acceptable?
"a household" = a country
Question: If racism is considered universally bad, the society strives for equality and fair treatment, looks upon its minority members with respect then why perpetuate a racist caricature?
If it's just a harmless children's tradition then why is it so abhorrent that the presentation be changed to be more racially sensitive?
kurisu1974
Banned
Actually two countries and part of France.
There's a real simple solution for not getting called a racist.
Prophet Steve
Member
Honestly I never heard a special accent for zwarte pieten here. Not that it makes a difference.
That's exactly what he meant yes. Thanks for the clarification.
They already did that. The got white pieten, clown pieten, yellow pieten, rainbow pieten, green pieten, cheese pieten, strootpwafel pieten etc etc
ClosingADoor
Member
As well? Did we lose any other traditions recently that I'm not aware of?
Wind's Howling
Member
Meanwhile in Curacao:
There are around 100 people putting the 'racism' stamp on our annual children's party that has been present for dozens of years, but in Curacao people are actually putting up more black make-up and are partying like crazy because they know how to differentiate the fantasy of a child to that of an adult. I, as a kid back in the 90's, enjoyed the whole atmosphere that surrounded Sinterklaas and Zwarte Pieten and not once did I discriminate other black people during that period, nor do I do that now.
So saying that 'Zwarte Piet' is racist does not sit well with me. They are fantasy based persons who bring joy and laughter into children's hearts, not racism. Children do not even know what racism is. That part gets created in their minds by society as a whole when they are old enough to comprehend what is actually going on in the world, and that happens far beyond the point when their parents say that 'Sinterklaas' does not exist.
Last year 66,1% of the Dutch households celebrated Sinterklaas on december fifth. So, he's getting close with that post.
boiled goose
good with gravy
Context is always needed to determine the effects of something.
Though I would argue caricaturization based on physical chsracteristics is probably inherently racist or at the very least always offensive.
Meanwhile in Curacao:
There are around 100 people putting the 'racism' stamp on our annual children's party that has been present for dozens of years, but in Curacao people are actually putting up more black make-up and are partying like crazy because they know how to differentiate the fantasy of a child to that of an adult. I, as a kid back in the 90's, enjoyed the whole atmosphere that surrounded Sinterklaas and Zwarte Pieten and not once did I discriminate other black people during that period, nor do I do that now.
So saying that 'Zwarte Piet' is racist does not sit well with me. They are fantasy based persons who bring joy and laughter into children's hearts, not racism. Children do not even know what racism is. That part gets created in their minds by society as a whole.
Do you think Mr. Popo is racist?
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