Are you fucking serious?
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Dutch Court : "Black Pete" (Zwarte Piet ) Is A Negative Stereotype
- Thread starter Slayven
- Start date
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Are you fucking serious?
Arjen
Member
HAHAHAHAHA thank you for pointing it out, I saw it and was like?!.
Anyway, just wanted to comment that this entire thread has been gold so far. It's fascinating to see the European reaction to this!
A European reaction huh? As far as I know only Belgium and Netherlands celebrate sinterklaas in Europe.
But don't let that hold you back, continue the mocking, that's what this thread is all about.
Now with this emotion your feeling, just for one second use it to imagine what it must feel like to be a black child where the holiday is celebrated. Not very nice is it?
Arjen
Member
I already said I understand and that the image needs to change?
So then why are you claiming this thread is about mocking Europeans?
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
Well, a little more diversity then. It's really strange they decided to portray him as black. Thanks for the essay.
Don't the majority of persian have a darker skin though?
Arjen
Member
Because when people explain how they feel, all they get is a
Looooooool.
Would you say there's a discussion going on in this thread, or that the majority just comes in to point and laugh?
Next up, Hadji Firuz.
Owh wait, that one is protected by UN Mandate...
Is he supposed to be a Black guy, though? I don't think the medieval Persians had really any contact with Sub-Saharan Africans, except for during the Achaemenid and Sasanian campaigns in Southern Egypt. Meanwhile, the Dutch were huge players in the Transatlantic slave trade.
Iran is really diverse. Some Iranian people look like they could be Norwegian, and some look like they could be from India. Most Iranian people look closer to Italians than they do to Iraqis, but there are outliers in both directions. For what its worth, the Ancient Greeks regularly described the Persians as looking "milk-white" in comparison to their sunburned warriors.
Are people explaining how they feel or are they trying to justify continuing to celebrate something that is clearly racist?
When people try to justify something that is racist then I see no problem with them being laughed at.
There seem to be quite a few similarities.
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
Interesting to know, thanks!
SecretSphere
Member
What needs to be moderated?
and there you have it folks.
The douchebag unapologetically used the phrase "n_gger lips".
Herbspiceguy
Member
Amazing; zomercarnaval X Sinterklaas. Is that Aruba?
Wish we'd celebrate Sinterklaas like that over here.
Arjen
Member
People don't understand why it's racist, because decades of their lives they associated it with a fun holiday. They need to be educated, not laughed at. Laughing at them is pretty counterproductive.
Oldschoolgamer
The physical form of blasphemy
Finally. The Dutch seriously need to make changes to zwarte piet. And as has said by a few posters probably dutch, all you need to do is to get rid of the red lips, curly hair, and full on ridiculous dark skin that is supposed to be soot for some reason. Just dab some black spots which looks like real soot and call it a fucking day.
He didn't use it to describe a person, it was an implied claim that the image of Black Pete incorporated a well-known racial caricature. You might not agree that Pete actually has nigger lips, but that's the argument.
RandyBobandy
Banned
Good on them.
We had something similar called golliwogs. My dad still parades them around like a trophy :/ He's also incredibly racist. All the people his age are, it's crazy. Like they just casually say blacks and pakis like it's a normal thing.
We had something similar called golliwogs. My dad still parades them around like a trophy :/ He's also incredibly racist. All the people his age are, it's crazy. Like they just casually say blacks and pakis like it's a normal thing.
Well, it's kinda shocking you don't even know the racist history of your own holiday. I get that as a kid you don't see it, but being an adult and not seeing blackface/bright red lips/afros as NOT being a caricature of black people in the country that helped to start the African slave trade in Europe? Really? When black people in your country protest against it? You have to be pretty daft to not connect the dots.
Sparkedglory
Member
This makes me happy after reading a lot of the stuff from that Kim kardashian blackface thread.
gutter_trash
Banned
the character was created in the 19th Century at the height of European colonialism in Africa.
If the Dutch get rid of Black Pete before the Washington Redskins get a name change, then good on the Dutch
If the Dutch get rid of Black Pete before the Washington Redskins get a name change, then good on the Dutch
Arjen
Member
I'm sure that helps to solve the problem.
|f you think that is going to work you will be sorely mistaken.
SecretSphere
Member
Yep, I've seen it. Please tell me the counter arguments for this point.
And yes, I understand why it could be considered offensive and heck, I would never dress like that or wouldn't really mind if they change it. I'm just wondering, for arguments sake, why several islands with a mostly black population can celebrate it this way without any problems if it is so obvious and inherently a racist and offensive tradition to black people.
GungHo
Single-handedly caused Exxon-Mobil to sue FOX, start World War 3
Maybe you should tell on him.
Chuckie
Member
If this article is correct, then I think he is supposed to be a black guy:
http://ajammc.com/2012/06/20/the-afro-iranian-community-beyond-haji-firuz-blackface-slavery-bandari-music/
Just curious, but how would you even do that in this case? Most people here in NL are well aware of the history and pro- and anti piet arguments. They took their stand based on that.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Goodness..lol!
Oh, whoa. I retract what I said. This character is just as racist as Zwarte Piet.
Chuckie
Member
I thought so too, but after last years national discussion I really started doubting that.
I've seen tons of people denying Zwarte Piet was (historically) based on a black servant.
We tell our children he is black because of the soot, but let's be honest...as an adult you should recognize the afro, the earrings and the red lips.
speculawyer
Member
Court of the bloody obvious.
Tragicomedy
Member
But Netherlands GAF told me all the white people there loved this character and didn't consider him racist. Also, there weren't enough black people around to complain about the issue. They also said that the Netherlands and Europe as a whole doesn't have the same problems with racism that we do in America.
America has the true problem with racism dating back to slavery, even though the Dutch were the first to import black slaves from Africa into America. They were just innocently transporting these people to satisfy the supply side of the equation. This wasn't some form of racist profiteering on their behalf, and the blame rests solely on our former colonies.
Also, I've never seen a banana tossed on the field towards a black player during a football/soccer match in Europe IN THE YEAR TWO THOUSAND AND FOURTEEN, while that stuff happens all the time here in the US. I've also never heard monkey chants directed at said players, while that's basically an everyday affair here in Freedomland.
In conclusion: black face in the US is racist, since we are a racist scumbag nation. Black face in the Netherlands and Europe is sophisticated and cultural, and Americans need to stop framing it in our racist paradigm.
America has the true problem with racism dating back to slavery, even though the Dutch were the first to import black slaves from Africa into America. They were just innocently transporting these people to satisfy the supply side of the equation. This wasn't some form of racist profiteering on their behalf, and the blame rests solely on our former colonies.
Also, I've never seen a banana tossed on the field towards a black player during a football/soccer match in Europe IN THE YEAR TWO THOUSAND AND FOURTEEN, while that stuff happens all the time here in the US. I've also never heard monkey chants directed at said players, while that's basically an everyday affair here in Freedomland.
In conclusion: black face in the US is racist, since we are a racist scumbag nation. Black face in the Netherlands and Europe is sophisticated and cultural, and Americans need to stop framing it in our racist paradigm.
AuthenticM
Member
no shit
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Yes, yes, yes.
I can understand people saying "I was raised with this, I never even thought about it," but I'm out of patience once they start defending and excusing this shit.
spindashing
Banned
LMAO
AuthenticM
Member
I very much doubt that.
Could be you are right, but i still don't see how one can 'shock people into self-awareness' in this case. Education would work much better, make it come from within instead of trying to push things down peoples throats imho.
So far i haven't seen a single Dutchie defend this in this thread. Trying to explain what is going on, yes. Defend it, no.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Have you read that Kim Kardashian thread? http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=845876 That's probably what people are referring to. Defenses and explanations went wild in there.
Chuckie
Member
Oh I agree with you on that one
They should adopt a fine norwegian tradition and reimagine him as Black Metal Pete:
Kids love them!
Oh shit. That dogs face has me laying face down in a puddle like Pinocchio! *Dead*
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