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[LNBL]

The yearly controversial topic returns once again, this time even The United Nations are getting involved.

The head of the UN’s human rights committee said in an interview with television show EenVandaag that she would object to the character of Zwarte Piet if she lived in the Netherlands.

Verene Shepherd, who is Jamaican, said in the interview that the UN working group cannot understand why 'people in the Netherlands do not see this is a throwback to slavery and that in the 21st century this practice should stop.’ Last week it emerged the committee is looking into the Sinterklaas celebrations and the role of Zwarte Piet (Black Pete) following complaints that it is racist.

Investigation

‘As a black person, if I were living in the Netherlands I would object to it. As a member of the working group, I am obliged to do further investigation,’ Shepherd said. ‘If we find out our information is wrong, we will change our position. But the information we have at the moment from the people of the Netherlands is that it is racist, a throwback to slavery and it should not happen.’

Every year the discussion flares up about the role of Zwarte Piet, played by a white person in black face make-up with a wig, red lips and gold earrings. This year protestors are trying to have the traditional Sinterklaas procession in Amsterdam banned because of the role of Zwarte Piet. This year’s procession is expected to include 500 Zwarte Piets.

Meanwhile, research by opinion pollster Maurice de Hond shows 92% of the Dutch do not associate Zwarte Piet with slavery and 91% oppose any efforts to change his appearance. In Amsterdam, however, 65% oppose efforts to make Zwarte Piet less of a stereotype

In the meantime people around the country are reacting pretty angry to these statements. Some people (Geert Wilders) even go as far as calling for the abolishment of the UN, while others say that other traditional/Religious events should also be prohibited if the "black petes" get banned during the 5th of december tradition.
Below a picture of Sinterklaas and his helpers, Zwarte Piet(en)

 

[ElectricBlue187]

Some people (Geert Wilders) even go as far as calling the abolishment of the UN

Cuz that's not a fuckin crazy reaction

 

[Des0lar]

Cuz that's not a fuckin crazy reaction

He's also a rightwing nutjob afaik

 

[Alucrid]

Cuz that's not a fuckin crazy reaction

Well he does look like an 80's action movie villain.

 

[SJRB]

Keep your fucking hands off of our traditions, you ill-informed douchebags.

 

[shadyspace]

But I thought it was just the Americans with their cultural imperialism that had a problem with this?

 

[Baconsaurus Rex]

But the information we have at the moment from the people of the Netherlands is that it is racist, a throwback to slavery and it should not happen.

Which people?

 

[Enkidu]

While you might have legitimate problems with Zwarte Piet I don't think the tradition has anything to do with slavery.

 

[2San]

Well this year is the first time I've seen the Dutch media really addressing the issue as well.

He's also a rightwing nutjob afaik

Yup.

Which people?

Prem was pretty worked up on DWDD.

While you might have legitimate problems with Zwarte Piet I don't think the tradition has anything to do with slavery.

Yeah, I do think it has a racist background, not necessarily related to slavery though.

 

[Hrothgar]

Which people?

The 2 dozen people that filed their yearly complaints at the Amsterdam mayor's office and had a round table meeting with him, most likely.

 

[Slayven]

Christmas comes early this year.

 

[Metrotab]

I'm guessing Flanders is cool?

Not that anyone here would care what the UN thinks anyway. No politician is gonna start the War on Zwarte Piet.

 

[LNBL]

Which people?

In the interview she refers to people that have sent complaints to the UN.

 

[Slayven]

I don't care if they get rid it or not. But they need to realized it is fucked up, and people will point out it is fucked up. SO live and let live.

 

[Nyx]

She also said 'Why do you need 2 Santa Clauses anyway?'

At least she read up on the matter before judging lol.

 

[MedIC86]

Recent poles showed 98% people dont link sinterklaas with racism, come on people its just folklore.

 

[Toxi]

But I thought it was just the Americans with their cultural imperialism that had a problem with this?

We forgot to tell foreigners this, but the United States are taking control of the United Nations Human Rights Committee. Sorry, but you'll probably not even notice the difference.

 

[PjotrStroganov]

This woman is quite ill-informed and her argumentation is quite subjective. She questioned why we want to celebrate St Nicolas, while we already have Santa Clause. WHUT?

While you might have legitimate problems with Zwarte Piet I don't think the tradition has anything to do with slavery.

Correct. I think that the tradition can change if people are taking offenced to certain aspects of it.

 

[zero_suit]

I don't care if they get rid it or not. But they need to realized it is fucked up, and people will point out it is fucked up. SO live and let live.

Indeed, there's no need for people to be in denial.

 

[Yonafunu]

I don't care if they get rid it or not. But they need to realized it is fucked up, and people will point out it is fucked up. SO live and let live.

.

 

[Goku]

I think the people who's human rights are violated every day and live in slavery this day and age will appreciate the time the UN has put into assessing the situation of a harmless Dutch folklore that brings joy and happiness to 95% of Holland.

 

[PjotrStroganov]

I think the people who's human rights are violated every day and live in slavery this day and age will appreciate the time the UN has put into assessing the situation of a harmless Dutch folklore that brings joy and happiness to 95% of Holland.

And the rest of the Netherlands I hope?

 

[Yonafunu]

I think the people who's human rights are violated every day and live in slavery this day and age will appreciate the time the UN has put into assessing the situation of a harmless Dutch folklore that brings joy and happiness to 95% of Holland.

But what about the remaining 5%?

 

[2San]

Correct. I think that the tradition can change if people are taking offenced to certain aspects of it.

I think this would work if they just dropped the hair and red lips. They already dropped the golden earings anyway. That way their excuse that it's just chimney ash works.

 

[Esch]

Recent poles showed 98% people dont link sinterklaas with racism, come on people its just folklore.

 

[Jackben]

oh shit it's zwarte piet time again on gaf already? Man time flies.

4% of the country thinks it's racist and associate it with racism

4%

But what about the remaining 5%?

Yes, because as long as the majority is having a good time and think it's okay, minorities don't matter. "lol"

 

[YourMaster]

Not this one:

This one the UN put on the UNESCO list of valued traditions.

 

[Goku]

And the rest of the Netherlands I hope?

But what about the remaining 5%?

The other 5% of people are people who oppose the tradition for the same reason the OP is about. You can never satisfy 100% of the population.

 

[PjotrStroganov]

What I'm wondering is when will Santa's little helpers be banned?

The other 5% of people are people who oppose the tradition for the same reason the OP is about. You can never satisfy 100% of the population.

I was more joking about that Holland=/=The Netherlands but only a few provinces.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

Why not get a black person to play the part?

 

[akira28]

oh shit it's zwarte piet time again on gaf already? Man time flies.

Yeah I turned the fan off for the first time last night, and brought down the flannel sheets.

Anyway, I wouldn't expect a country where the concept of brown people had morphed into mythical elves to make the connections centuries later, but...there haven't been any elves around for atleast 20,000 years.

 

[neorej]

Ok, how about we change zwarte piet's name to the UNESCO protected name Fajji Hiruz and be fucking done with it? They're the same fictional character after all.

 

[ISOM]

Why not get a black person to play the part?

Obviously it wouldn't be as fun if they didn't get to dress up in black face.

 

[Deleted member 1235]

Yeah I turned the fan off for the first time last night, and brought down the flannel sheets.

Anyway, I wouldn't expect a country where the concept of brown people had morphed into mythical elves to make the connections centuries later, but...there haven't been any elves around for atleast 20,000 years.

I've read this post 10 times now and I don't get what's going on in any of it.

 

[Goku]

Why not get a black person to play the part?

Because Zwarte Piet isn't meant to be a black person. It's not like white people are painting themselves to look like a human beeing of native African race.

 

[SecretSphere]

Why not get a black person to play the part?

They do sometimes, especially at the Dutch Antilles: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ogYpuO95SI

 

[Enkidu]

Wikipedia actually has a very interesting theory on the origins of Sinterklaas and Zwarte Piet.

The first origin of Sinterklaas and his helpers can probably be found in the Wild Hunt of Wodan. Riding the white horse Sleipnir he flew through the air as the leader of the Wild Hunt. He was always accompanied by two black ravens, Huginn and Muninn. Those helpers would listen, just like Zwarte Piet, at the chimney - which was just a hole in the roof at that time - to tell Wodan about the good and bad behaviour of the mortals.

I think if everyone just went back to honoring Odin and his ravens most of the criticism would go away

 

[Jackben]

Because Zwarte Piet isn't meant to be a black person. It's not like white people are painting themselves to look like a human beeing of native African race.

No...clearly not...

They just happen to paint themselves up as the exact caricature of a black person. Quite the coincidence if I may say so myself.

Yeah I turned the fan off for the first time last night, and brought down the flannel sheets.

Anyway, I wouldn't expect a country where the concept of brown people had morphed into mythical elves to make the connections centuries later, but...there haven't been any elves around for atleast 20,000 years.

lmao

 

[Alucrid]

Because Zwarte Piet isn't meant to be a black person. It's not like white people are painting themselves to look like a human beeing of native African race.

They just happen to paint themselves up as the exact caricature of a black person. Quite the coincidence if I may say so myself.

 

[dbztrk]

Why not get a black person to play the part?

Then they would have to pay them. Can't have that. Also, from my understanding the Dutch do not consider Zwarte Piet to be black but Moorish as in Arab. Hmm...

 

[neorej]

They do sometimes, especially at the Dutch Antilles: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ogYpuO95SI

We all know the Antilles is filled to the brim with racists, as this video demonstrates.

 

[Azih]

The argument is that it's for the kids.

The kids don't give a shit.

Older people who want to hang on to their nostalgia do.

Just change the damn thing. Not all traditions are good. Hang on to the ones that are and junk the rest.

 

[Hrothgar]

Why not get a black person to play the part?

On Curacao, black people actually also paint their faces black when they take on the role of Zwarte Piet.

 

[Yonafunu]

Because Zwarte Piet isn't meant to be a black person. It's not like white people are painting themselves to look like a human beeing of native African race.

Zwarte Piet has (painted) dark skin, red lips, curly hair and used to wear gold earrings. That sounds a lot like blackface.

 

[Helvetica Neue]

As i child i learned from my parents and at school, that zwarte piet was black because the ash from going trough the fireplace..

 

[Valhelm]

Well he does look like an 80's action movie villain.

Shit.

 

[Alucrid]

As i child i learned from my parents and at school, that zwarte piet was black because the ash from going trough the fireplace..

You have some shitty mythical beings if they can't even avoid soot.

 

[2San]

The argument is that it's for the kids.

The kids don't give a shit.

Older people who want to hang on to their nostalgia do.

Just change the damn thing. Not all traditions are good. Hang on to the ones that are and junk the rest.

Yeah, traditions change. For example in the begin there was also just 1 piet now we have bucket loads. In the past Pieten where kidnappers of naughty children as well.

 

[ISOM]

Zwarte Piet has (painted) dark skin, red lips, curly hair and used to wear gold earrings. That sounds a lot like blackface.

lol seriously. Zware piet may not be intended to mock african people by the current population of the dutch. However I strongly believe that the creator of zwarte piet had the image of africans in his mind when he decided to fetishize and caricaturize them into zwarte piet.

 

[PjotrStroganov]

lol seriously. Zware piet may not be intended to mock african people by the current population of the dutch. However I strongly believe that the creator of zwarte piet had the image of africans in his mind when he decided to fetishize and caricaturize them into zwarte piet.

True. And this should be taken into account.

Zwarte Piet has dark skin, red lips, curly hair and used to wear gold earrings. Come on.

Which can change.

Though Zwarte Piet isn't really considered a black person. More like an elf or another mythical person. For most people in the Netherlands there is no history with blackface so a connection isn't really made. Kids all want to dress up like Piet because he's such an awesome person.