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CNN/ORC Iowa: Sanders 51%, Clinton 43%; Trump 37%, Cruz 26%

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Metrotab

Banned
This election season is gonna be weird on NeoGAF if Trump wins the candidacy for the Republican Party, since it's almost impossible to call yourself a Trump supporter and explain why without putting yourself outside the allowed discourse on NeoGAF. So I guess the general election thread will be 100% Democrats (+ possibly disgruntled Sanders supporters if he loses)?

Will be interesting to see.
 
This election season is gonna be weird on NeoGAF if Trump wins the candidacy for the Republican Party, since it's almost impossible to call yourself a Trump supporter and explain why without putting yourself outside the allowed discourse on NeoGAF. So I guess the general election thread will be 100% Democrats (+ possibly disgruntled Sanders supporters if he loses)?

Will be interesting to see.

Yeah backing a bigot will do that
 
I never understand people who would vote for Trump just because he's "not in the establishment." It's like saying you need a ride home from the bar, but you think that Uber and the city Taxi company are too corrupt, so you'll just have the drunk guy from the bar drive you so you don't contribute to either corrupt company. Is it really so important that you go anti-establishment that you literally don't give a shit about any of the person's opinions as long as they're not establishment? Why not just vote for Vermin Fucking Supreme?

It's not just because he's part of the Establishment. He's also one of the great businessmen of our times. Did you even read "Art of the Deal"? I wouldn't expect you to understand if you didn't at least read that book.
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
Will be interesting to see how the Planned Parenthood debacle affects this.

It won't affect anything. Bernie said the truth.

As for the polls, glad to see it.

Some people can try and play dismissive all they want and keep the narrative that Hilllary is an inevitable coronation, but if Bernie wins Iowa and New Hampshire, this race is fully in play, and then i dont wanna hear any more garbage about 'fringe candidate' from Hillary supporters.
 
This election season is gonna be weird on NeoGAF if Trump wins the candidacy for the Republican Party, since it's almost impossible to call yourself a Trump supporter and explain why without putting yourself outside the allowed discourse on NeoGAF. So I guess the general election thread will be 100% Democrats (+ possibly disgruntled Sanders supporters if he loses)?

Will be interesting to see.

If you support trump you're supporting blatant racism and xenophobia. Like there's no assumptions being made there. It speaks for itself.
 

Wall

Member
It won't affect anything. Bernie said the truth.

As for the polls, glad to see it.

Some people can try and play dismissive all they want and keep the narrative that Hilllary is an inevitable coronation, but if Bernie wins Iowa and New Hampshire, this race is fully in play, and then i dont wanna hear any more garbage about 'fringe candidate' from Hillary supporters.

I wouldn't say he is a fringe candidate even if he does lose Iowa and New Hampshire,. He holds up just fine in the general election polling.
 

params7

Banned
since it's almost impossible to call yourself a Trump supporter and explain why without putting yourself outside the allowed discourse on NeoGAF.

Lol, what? Gaf hates Trump, but you should not be really worried about being socially ostracized here, hahaha.
 

pigeon

Banned
This election season is gonna be weird on NeoGAF if Trump wins the candidacy for the Republican Party, since it's almost impossible to call yourself a Trump supporter and explain why without putting yourself outside the allowed discourse on NeoGAF. So I guess the general election thread will be 100% Democrats (+ possibly disgruntled Sanders supporters if he loses)?

Will be interesting to see.

There are a bunch of Trump supporters in THIS THREAD. Is your theory that they will get bored and go back to trolling gaming side before November?
 

Kenai

Member
Thing is not everyone is going to see/hear and perceive what he says that way or in the context you see him. Secondly, most voters rally around 1-3 issues max and the rest is background noise. So if the anti establishment aspect is their touch point then thats going to carry more weight than anything else and they will filter (like you and just about everyone else) with that in mind in order to keep congruent with their belief in their candidate (can swap out candidate for most things people have value judgements around).

Single issue voting (which this effectively is) is such trash though. Especially when Trump really isn't anti establishment. He just says he is. It's right up there with "the *insert minority here* love me".

And whether or not Trump supporters actually want to own up to it, supporting Trump *is* supporting his other views as well, which is literally throwing minority groups (LGBT, Black, Hispanic, Muslim, women, ect ect ect) under the bus. If Trump supporters can't understand that and thus can't understand why others are so hostile towards them as a result, it's their own fault. They aren't minor inconveniences or indirect undermining via hush-hush policies either, but him literally standing up on podiums at his rallies and taking huge outspoken shits on them over and over and over again, with actions (such as potential congress seat shifting and cabinet appointments) to back those words up. He's never tried to hide it either. There is no excuse for the ignorance.
 

spock

Member
Single issue voting (which this effectively is) is such trash though. Especially when Trump really isn't anti establishment. He just says he is. It's right up there with "the *insert minority here* love me".

And whether or not Trump supporters actually want to own up to it, supporting Trump *is* supporting his other views as well, which is literally throwing minority groups (LGBT, Black, Hispanic, Muslim, women, ect ect ect) under the bus. If Trump supporters can't understand that and thus can't understand why others are so hostile towards them as a result, it's their own fault. They aren't minor inconveniences or indirect undermining via hush-hush policies either, but him literally standing up on podiums at his rallies and taking huge outspoken shits on them over and over and over again, with actions (such as potential congress seat shifting and cabinet appointments) to back those words up. He's never tried to hide it either. There is no excuse for the ignorance.

Single issue voting may suck but it is what is. I doubt the majority even here are looking beyond 3 touch points. As for his issues with minorities, you have to factor in the context of each situation and statement. So while I get how one can see him as a racist, objectively and in context (moreso combined with existing filters and conscious or unconscious bias people have) it's not that clear cut. One can make arguments if they choose to counter the negative perspectives of some of what he has said. And basically thats what single issue voters are/will do to remain congruent.

This is why I'm surprised that while Gaf seems to have smart folks, so many people dismissed Trump early on and continue to do so. Perhaps its just me though, I honestly interact and I guess am friends with people on a crazy wide spectrum. Some with strongly opposing views, but my view and experiences in life have me looking for the best in people and common ground. Does it mean I ignore somethings? Indeed I INTENTIONALLY do. Makes life and people a lot easier and enjoyable, lol.
 

Kenai

Member
Single issue voting may suck but it is what is. I doubt the majority even here are looking beyond 3 touch points. As for his issues with minorities, you have to factor in the context of each situation and statement. So while I get how one can see him as a racist, objectively and in context (moreso combined with existing filters and conscious or unconscious bias people have) it's not that clear cut. One can make arguments if they choose to counter the negative perspectives of some of what he has said. And basically thats what single issue voters are/will do to remain congruent.

This is why I'm surprised that while Gaf seems to have smart folks, so many people dismissed Trump early on and continue to do so. Perhaps its just me though, I honestly interact and I guess am friends with people on a crazy wide spectrum. Some with strongly opposing views, but my view and experiences in life have me looking for the best in people and common ground. Does it mean I ignore somethings? Indeed I INTENTIONALLY do. Makes life and people a lot easier and enjoyable, lol.

No, it really is clear cut.

In the absolutely best case scenario (which it probably isn't) he is marginalizing and insulting wide groups of people for political gain, and empowering formerly closet racists to feel their despicable actions are justified. He is gunning for being the face of our entire nation, that shit is absolutely unacceptable. He's supposed to represent all of us, but he's putting a hell of a lot of us down. And personally speaking, when someone supports someone who is so outspoken about how he sees me and a lot of people i know (as second rate citizens who probably deserve even worse than we have since he's so concerned about "making America great again"), I can't look at them as decent human beings with an opinion that matters. Not really.

You don't have to agree with me or everything I think obviously, but you have to understand that they (you?) are supporting an unapologetic racist enabler whose views make even the most dim brained people in this country feel like they were right to cock their shotgun at the nearest brown person cause why not. And that's not even getting into policy. When that happens there is NO excuse for ignorance on what he stands for. Zero. None. If the dim brains understand it, you freaking should too. You can google so much NOT taken out of context at any particular time that it's legit embarrassing. While the other Republicans are slimy as well, i can at least understand how someone not versed in political dog whistling can be fooled, but that defense means nothing for Trump, whose message is as clear as day and who is oh so famous for "telling it like it is" so often that you need a directory to find some minority group he hasn't thrown under the bus yet.

And most of GAF was right, cause his actual chance at a White House election is so dismal (thank various deities) that the Republican party is seriously considering fully disowning him and licking their wounds until the next cycle if he is the nominee. Cause they know how it will go down; minorities/women are going to do out and vote against him in droves, because all the unapologetic shit he keeps smearing around keeps making national headlines. That isn't to say he hasn't done considerable damage to both the U.S. global image as well as in-country race relations (which already weren't the best) in the meantime, but no, i am certainly not going to call any Trump supporter "smart" or 'well informed" about much of anything when they can't be bothered to do a 30 second Google search to factcheck, lol.
 
This election season is gonna be weird on NeoGAF if Trump wins the candidacy for the Republican Party, since it's almost impossible to call yourself a Trump supporter and explain why without putting yourself outside the allowed discourse on NeoGAF. So I guess the general election thread will be 100% Democrats (+ possibly disgruntled Sanders supporters if he loses)?

Will be interesting to see.

When someone says that they support a candidate, they're actively endorsing that candidates views and policies. If those policies and views negatively impact people, that goes beyond simple opinion, it becomes a tangible problem that hurts real living people.

Even if it is indirect, that is calling for harm against certain groups. It's foolish to expect others not to retaliate when they are disrespected.

At this point debate should happen, but most of the time there is very little reasoning, or just a pure lack of empathy, behind the conservative stances in the first place, and they flee from presenting an argument.

This will occur more frequently the closer we get to the elections.
 
This election season is gonna be weird on NeoGAF if Trump wins the candidacy for the Republican Party, since it's almost impossible to call yourself a Trump supporter and explain why without putting yourself outside the allowed discourse on NeoGAF. So I guess the general election thread will be 100% Democrats (+ possibly disgruntled Sanders supporters if he loses)?

Will be interesting to see.

What is going to be interesting to see is people doing mental gymnastics to why they support Donald Trump without trying to sound like they support some of his views.
 

Scoops

Banned
Why is it so hard to believe Trump and Sanders appeal to similar groups? Both are anti establishment, anti super-Pac, anti status quo.

Sure they have different viewpoints in regards to the left-right liberal-conservative spectrum, but if it's one thing you all should've learned about this cycle so far, it's that the spectrum no longer matters as much to people as does being anti-establishment does.

A working majority of the country no longer believes that the country's biggest issues are defined by left-right viewpoints, but instead that the structure of government being broken is our biggest issue. Sanders and Trump both attack that issue as a main thrust of their campaigns.
 

Alcander

Member
I really think if Sanders is the nom it would guarantee a blowout victory for any GOP challenger, save perhaps Cruz. I hate to say it but I think Sanders' self-proclaimed socialist views are frankly toxic to a large majority of americans, and are easily exploitable. I think any pundits claiming the gop would rather run against hillary than bernie are simply trying to build up bernie for exactly the opposite reason (so they won't have to run against hillary).

I honestly cannot fathom the logic required to support both Trump and Sanders equally or sequentially, though if you listen to Morning Joe (hey its my guilty pleasure) you'd think half the country falls into that camp. It literally makes no rational sense unless all you care about exclusively is some fuzzy idea of anti establishment, which honestly will mean absolutely nothing post-inauguration.
 

Alcander

Member
Why is it so hard to believe Trump and Sanders appeal to similar groups? Both are anti establishment, anti super-Pac, anti status quo.

Sure they have different viewpoints in regards to the left-right liberal-conservative spectrum, but if it's one thing you all should've learned about this cycle so far, it's that the spectrum no longer matters as much to people as does being anti-establishment does.

A working majority of the country no longer believes that the country's biggest issues are defined by left-right viewpoints, but instead that the structure of government being broken is our biggest issue. Sanders and Trump both attack that issue as a main thrust of their campaigns.

Dude, ugh. The structure of government will be there, regardless of who is elected. What matters is the beliefs of the person elected. Bernie or Trump is not going to change how government works, however much they might like to. It's still going to be as divided as ever. If you want to enact change on the world, you need to elect someone who can make a difference in the relatively few instances where they have some say in the matter largely around policy initiatives, vetoes, SC nominations, and foreign policy. I love Bernie and would be extremely happy with him as president, but you simply cannot equate him with Trump.

I get it that "government is broken" is a popular theme for a campaign (look how far back this has been the case). But realistically what would either of them do?
 

K.Sabot

Member
I get it that "government is broken" is a popular theme for a campaign (look how far back this has been the case). But realistically what would either of them do?

Best case scenario for sanders: rally people to vote in a non-general election.

best case scenario for trump: fuck shit up so bad we raise our fucking standards for nominees in the future.

edit: clarification because i'm tired
 

Metrotab

Banned
There are a bunch of Trump supporters in THIS THREAD. Is your theory that they will get bored and go back to trolling gaming side before November?

My theory is that most of them will keep quiet or be rather vague about why they're supporting Trump, since I would imagine several of his policies would be bannable if supported explicitly.

Which would lead to the quaint situation that there will be people supporting one of two mainstream candidates available in the US but without being really able to say why.
 
If you support trump you're supporting blatant racism and xenophobia. Like there's no assumptions being made there. It speaks for itself.

That's not entirely true as some people will vote based on fiscal principles and not social issues. Others will vote for him on gun rights. Social issues are not at the top of everones voting priority.

I like Bernie Sanders but I don't agree with every stance he is taking.
 

Vhalyar

Member
That's not entirely true as some people will vote based on fiscal principles and not social issues. Others will vote for him on gun rights. Social issues are not at the top of everones voting priority.

I like Bernie Sanders but I don't agree with every stance he is taking.
You vote for someone you endorse their good and bad sides. In Trump's case you endorse his vile shit.
 
That's not entirely true as some people will vote based on fiscal principles and not social issues. Others will vote for him on gun rights. Social issues are not at the top of everones voting priority.

I like Bernie Sanders but I don't agree with every stance he is taking.


Mussolini may have done many brutal and tyrannical things; he may have destroyed human freedom in Italy; he may have murdered and tortured citizens whose only crime was to oppose Mussolini; but 'one had to admit' one thing about the Dictator: he 'made the trains run on time.'
 
It won't affect anything. Bernie said the truth.

As for the polls, glad to see it.

Some people can try and play dismissive all they want and keep the narrative that Hilllary is an inevitable coronation, but if Bernie wins Iowa and New Hampshire, this race is fully in play, and then i dont wanna hear any more garbage about 'fringe candidate' from Hillary supporters.

It will not be in play. Iowa and NH are two states that play to Sanders' strengths. They are very white states with multiple college campuses that are also very white. Sanders' problem remains that the rest of the primary map isn't so white. Unlike Obama, Sanders is incapable of broadly appealing to the types of voters he needs in order to defeat Clinton.

Sanders remains a very bad candidate who probably cannot win a general election. The longer this goes on the more obvious this will become. I thought his last debate performance was pretty bad, but pretty good at highlighting his weaknesses. He is stunningly one note and has no political intuition. Even Ron Paul didn't talk about auditing the fed 24/7, as Sanders talks about Wall St 24/7. Yes it is a dominant issue but Sanders hasn't been able to hone if effectively.

Having worked with his staff in DC and having seen how he operates first hand, I simply don't believe we can risk nominating a man as ineffective and unimpressive as Bernie Sanders. And I say that as someone who does respect him for standing up for his principles. But you're either good at this or you're not. And he's just not.
 

HylianTom

Banned
I really do understand voting on different priorities, but I also have to ask: how far are voters willing to sell others' humanity for a tax cut, or a vague hope of "better deals," or for some vacuous bumpersticker offer of "taking it to The Establishment?"

If he goes right up to the line of advocating internment camps, does he still stay on your safe side, so long as it isn't your own ass that's in the crosshairs? Do those tax cuts and "good deals" still sound worthwhile? At what point are you no longer able to look at yourself in the mirror?

Trump's already made some rather reprehensible comments on a wide range of issues regarding various non-white groups. To me, personally, it's pretty damn disgusting to see folks hand-wave these items away because they're more concerned with their own selfish interests.

Trump has to lose, if only to send a message that this isn't a road we want to go down. And for anyone with a conscience, if he's on the ballot, it should be a no-brainer. Your ass might not be on the chopping block in 2016, but things change.
 

TDLink

Member
I think that if there are enough people to realize Bernie Sanders has a chance and put him into the general election, then there are enough people who aren't complete idiots and don't really believe that socialist = bad.
 
I think that if there are enough people to realize Bernie Sanders has a chance and put him into the general election, then there are enough people who aren't complete idiots and don't really believe that socialist = bad.
Wow what an incisive theory!

This thread scares me.
 

Yamauchi

Banned
Bernie does seem to focus on one issue too much. The big problem for me is that Clinton voted for the invasion of Iraq, called for the ouster of Gaddafi and Assad, and even today calls for the creation of a no-fly zone over Syria to support the islamist and al-Qaeda dominated rebels. While Obama's muddling seems to keep him from doing anything too stupid, Clinton's policies come off as far more neoconish, and after living under 8 years of Bush's shitstorm of a foreign policy, quite frankly I don't want to go back to that.
 

TDLink

Member
Wow what an incisive theory!

This thread scares me.

Ok, I'm sorry I don't have time to make a bigger post right now. But being socialist isn't inherently bad. People keep bringing it up like it's something that is going to end Bernie's run, and I really don't think it is. I don't think that if he wins the nomination he's guaranteed to win the general, but if he loses it won't be because he said he was a socialist. The entire nation does not believe socialism is inherently bad just because one party keeps telling us it is. They kept saying Obama was a socialist too (not that he actually was) and he ended up still getting elected.
 
Ok, I'm sorry I don't have time to make a bigger post right now. But being socialist isn't inherently bad. People keep bringing it up like it's something that is going to end Bernie's run, and I really don't think it is. I don't think that if he wins the nomination he's guaranteed to win the general, but if he loses it won't be because he said he was a socialist. The entire nation does not believe socialism is inherently bad just because one party keeps telling us it is. They kept saying Obama was a socialist too (not that he actually was) and he ended up still getting elected.

I know this point has probably been brought up a lot in this discussion, but there are generally two arguments against your points.
1) Calling Obama a socialist didn't work in large part because Obama wasn't a socialist, and people realized that. They still don't like socialists, they just didn't think Obama was one. That strength is gone when Sanders goes around calling himself a socialist.
2) Although you can argue how predictive the poll is, Gallup found that only 47% of respondents would consider voting for a Socialist as President. Less than Atheists and Muslims, which are historically pretty unliked groups. So it's possible that America could get over its fear of socialism, but the data right now indicates that this isn't the case.
 
I know this point has probably been brought up a lot in this discussion, but there are generally two arguments against your points.
1) Calling Obama a socialist didn't work in large part because Obama wasn't a socialist, and people realized that. They still don't like socialists, they just didn't think Obama was one. That strength is gone when Sanders goes around calling himself a socialist.
2) Although you can argue how predictive the poll is, Gallup found that only 47% of respondents would consider voting for a Socialist as President. Less than Atheists and Muslims, which are historically pretty unliked groups. So it's possible that America could get over its fear of socialism, but the data right now indicates that this isn't the case.

More importantly, it's possible Americans can get over their fear of socialists...however it's not going to be Sanders who convinces them. Such a task would require a talented politician, like Obama or Bill Clinton. Sanders is not that.
 
More importantly, it's possible Americans can get over their fear of socialists...however it's not going to be Sanders who convinces them. Such a task would require a talented politician, like Obama or Bill Clinton. Sanders is not that.

I agree. I do think Sanders is doing something valuable, and I do think he could be an important part of moving the conversation to the left in the US, and helping people get over their fears of socialism. But I don't think his role in this is as President. I love the guy. I wish he ran the country. But I'm very bearish on his odds.
 
Is A Hillary and Bernie as VP ticket possible?

Definitely possibly. There's no rules against it. Some people doubt it, though. You typically pick a VP candidate to cover up your weaknesses. I don't think he'd be a terrible choice, as it would be a good way to keep the Bernie fans engaged and interested in your campaign. You might open yourself up to some attacks, though. "If you want to see how Hillary plans to govern, look at what she did when she was running. She picked a socialist as number two!" I'm not sure how effective the attack would be, though. And again, having the energized, engaged Bernie fanbase on your side would be helpful. The question is whether or not there is a better candidate to cover another weak spot of hers. A lot of people I've read are speculating heavy on Julian Castro (although I'm not sure why) or Tim Kaine or Mark Warner (both former Virginia governors and current Virginia Senators).
 
Is A Hillary and Bernie as VP ticket possible?

No. Sanders offers nothing to the ticket. He's from a small state Hillary is going to win, he doesn't improve her numbers with any demographic group (spoiler: Hillary will win the youth vote in November), and he doesn't really offer a potential Clinton administration any benefits.

I wouldn't be shocked if Hillary bucks the recent W Bush/Obama trend of nominating strong or influential VPs and instead picks someone who is just there for campaign reasons/grooming. Castro comes to mind.
 

bishoptl

Banstick Emeritus
This election season is gonna be weird on NeoGAF if Trump wins the candidacy for the Republican Party, since it's almost impossible to call yourself a Trump supporter and explain why without putting yourself outside the allowed discourse on NeoGAF. So I guess the general election thread will be 100% Democrats (+ possibly disgruntled Sanders supporters if he loses)?

Will be interesting to see.

Yeah backing a bigot will do that
hey now
 
I expect to see a lot of this if Bernie is the candidate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2E87gciwebw

Woman: "He's a communist!"
Matthews: "Tell me what you mean"
Woman: "Oh I know what I mean"
Matthews: "Yeah, but help me out here, what do you mean"
Woman: "I know what I mean, do your homework"
Matthews: "But what do you mean, he's not american?"
Woman: "No"
Matthews: "Where is he from? What country?"
Woman: "Some other country, he's not american, he's a communist"

Logic is not a strong suit with this woman. I hate dealing with people like this.
 

noshten

Member
After her speech last night her campaign are hoping it will "shake some sense into Iowans", I'm guessing these type of comments are really going to propel her campaign among Iowans
 
They kept saying Obama was a socialist too (not that he actually was) and he ended up still getting elected.
This is such a common (and horrible) comparison on these boards. Obama denied and distanced himself from those association. Bernie, obviously, can't and won't. At best he'll be forced into clarifying what "democratic socialism" means and that won't matter to anyone. Barack was also called a Muslim and won two terms, TDLink. Does this tell you that America would not scoff at a Muslim President in our current climate or that the smear attacks had no teeth because most people dismissed them?
 
That's not entirely true as some people will vote based on fiscal principles and not social issues. Others will vote for him on gun rights. Social issues are not at the top of everones voting priority.

I like Bernie Sanders but I don't agree with every stance he is taking.

Regardless, you're still supporting those principles by voting for him. Even if you like fiscal, gun etc ideas, you're still shitty for supporting him in light of his other views.
 

Wall

Member
It will not be in play. Iowa and NH are two states that play to Sanders' strengths. They are very white states with multiple college campuses that are also very white. Sanders' problem remains that the rest of the primary map isn't so white. Unlike Obama, Sanders is incapable of broadly appealing to the types of voters he needs in order to defeat Clinton.

Sanders remains a very bad candidate who probably cannot win a general election. The longer this goes on the more obvious this will become. I thought his last debate performance was pretty bad, but pretty good at highlighting his weaknesses. He is stunningly one note and has no political intuition. Even Ron Paul didn't talk about auditing the fed 24/7, as Sanders talks about Wall St 24/7. Yes it is a dominant issue but Sanders
hasn't been able to hone if effectively.

Having worked with his staff in DC and having seen how he operates first hand, I simply don't believe we can risk nominating a man as ineffective and unimpressive as Bernie Sanders. And I say that as someone who does respect him for standing up for his principles. But you're either good at this or you're not. And he's just not.

Yet there isn't any evidence Sanders would be a bad candidate in the general election going by the aggregated polling of him versus the Republican candidates. He does better than Clinton against Trump.

I'm also concerned with how low Clinton's favorability ratings are going into the election. On the poll aggregators, she is viewed unfavorably by over 50 percent of the U.S.. That is before the election even begins. Clinton's "ceiling" appears to be a narrow victory over whoever the Republicans run that is driven more by distaste for the Republican candidate than positive feels toward her.

Whether the establishment of both parties wants to acknowledge it or not, the electorate appears to desire change. Clinton having been in the public office and the public eye for the past 25 or so years will hurt her as much as help her going forward because she is identified with the status quo.
 

Makai

Member
It's not just because he's part of the Establishment. He's also one of the great businessmen of our times. Did you even read "Art of the Deal"? I wouldn't expect you to understand if you didn't at least read that book.
I try to assume people say what they mean but my sarcasm detector is blaring right now. Help.
 

TDLink

Member
This is such a common (and horrible) comparison on these boards. Obama denied and distanced himself from those association. Bernie, obviously, can't and won't. At best he'll be forced into clarifying what "democratic socialism" means and that won't matter to anyone. Barack was also called a Muslim and won two terms, TDLink. Does this tell you that America would not scoff at a Muslim President in our current climate or that the smear attacks had no teeth because most people dismissed them?

I think most people in America are intelligent and don't just succumb to the Fox News propaganda machine that says these certain things are bad. Those that do are a minority.

Some people are going to make the socialist thing a big deal, obviously, but I believe that for most Americans it is not something that is going to be the deciding factor for their vote.

If Bernie were to get the nomination it wouldn't prevent most democrats from voting for the party candidate. There are many swing and Republican voters who loathe Trump. If it's a matter of Trump vs Socialist Bernie I think it could go either way on an individual basis.
 
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