RustyNails
Member
Nothing I said is remotely unbelievable. Do you think the rolling away of every progressive policy in the past 8 years is funny?
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NBC/WSJ - GOP&Dem Polls : Trump/Cruz tied Iowa, Sanders/Clinton closing NH/Iowa
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Aaron Strife
Banned
My real concern about Bernie is that he's posting good numbers now, but then the attack ads start hitting and America is reminded that they might elect an actual socialist and go GOP.
Like I do want to get hyped by Bernie's poll numbers but he's far more of an unknown at this point than Hillary.
If it really is a sure thing that he wins, then sure, whatever.
Like I do want to get hyped by Bernie's poll numbers but he's far more of an unknown at this point than Hillary.
If it really is a sure thing that he wins, then sure, whatever.
Cruz does. He would have deported anyone that was in his position.
Do you see where the hypocrisy comes from?
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Fact check: As of the last Gallup poll, Socialists are the most hated people in America, even more so than atheists and Muslims:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/183713/s...litics&utm_medium=newsfeed&utm_campaign=tiles
Hillary views Sanders as a non-threat since Bernie isn't even trying to win the nomination which is why she's had no negative advertising towards him which is why his favorables are so good right now.
If you really think a Socialist who hates to talk about foreign policy is going to win in America in 2016, you are entirely wrong.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/183713/s...litics&utm_medium=newsfeed&utm_campaign=tiles
Hillary views Sanders as a non-threat since Bernie isn't even trying to win the nomination which is why she's had no negative advertising towards him which is why his favorables are so good right now.
If you really think a Socialist who hates to talk about foreign policy is going to win in America in 2016, you are entirely wrong.
It's the one thing likely Democratic and Republican primary voters have in common that doesn't seem like a trend among independents and undecideds: A very strong anti-establishment sentiment.
"I don't want more of the same," seems to be about the only phrase you'll see that doesn't change anywhere you look where there's any kind of political discourse.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Anyone who knows anything about Sanders knows he is a socialist. it's literally the number 1 first thing you ever learn about him. The fact he's a socialist is already priced into his figures. it's not new information or a game-changer. Despite this, he does better than Clinton. This should give you a huge heads-up as to how poor a candidate she is. Saying "rhubarb, rhubarb" and hoping really hard is just going to lead you to tears come the presidential election.
teruterubozu
Member
Hillary will be labeled a socialist soon enough by general elections time, just like Obama was.
It doesn't matter for republicans - ALL democrats are socialists. This is basic.
It doesn't matter for republicans - ALL democrats are socialists. This is basic.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
The majority of people know nothing about Bernie because they don't give a fuck about a Democrat who isn't trying to win the Democratic nomination.
gutter_trash
Banned
who cares?
Rafael Cruz and Ted Cruz beat the ultra Conservative drums of being against immigration that it laughably ironic since both are immigrants.
It's full of self loathing hate.
Rafael Cruz went on speeches about Obama being a Kenyan not being born in the US. Rafael is an awful man.
who the fuck is Rafael Cruz to question a real American born President? Obama was born in the USA, Rafael was not
Rafael is a racist punk, so is his son
This is what I think a lot of people fail to realize. I like Bernie but he's a self proclaimed socialist. That shit isn't going to play well with independents
Yes a poll from JUNE 22, 2015 is in anyway an indicator how much people are going to vote for Trump or Cruz ahead of Sanders because of SOCIALISM
teruterubozu
Member
"Independants" these days are rarely liberal anyway. They're mostly tea partiers and libertarians.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
.....
Yes a poll from 6 months ago is probably a good indicator about how Americans feel about Socialists and Americans vote based on how they feel.
These criticisms are getting stranger and stranger by the day. Not trying to win? Huh?
Now please proceed to explain to us how more recent polls showing him winning against Republican candidates are completely irrelevant.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
This just isn't true. I literally posted a link to the poll showing you Sanders leading by a huge margin over Clinton (and over the Republicans) among independents, and you're just asserting that this isn't the case. This is cloud cuckoo land. Like, read the damn tables. They're there, they exist, we have lots of them now. Did you even look?
I should have phrased it another way. I already know he's a racist POS and a huge hypocrite. I just thought you used his expired visa as proof that he's a criminal or something. I didn't make the link between that and his son's rhetoric. My bad.
Aaronology
Member
...are you arguing that Americans have warmed up to socialism in six months, and that once Bernie actually begins garnering negative attention his political stance on that very important matter won't affect anything?
I think you're more than a little delusional.
gutter_trash
Banned
the way they talk about being anti-immigration makes Rafael Cruz fair game for being questioned about his path to citizenship
First the poll that has nothing to do with Bernie Sanders or taken into account that for certain people being able to connect a word to an actual person and what he stands for might change their attitude. Secondly the poll isn't an indicator considering it was a June when he had barely registered on National level when he was polling 12-15%. Thirdly it's in noway an indication of how Trump or Cruz would do and whether the majority of people who say they wouldn't vote for a socialist might consider Sanders when faced at these alternatives.
Like I said no one is explaining how Cruz or Trump are going to beat Sanders in a GE
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Uhh, because of this?
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/a-year-out-ignore-general-election-polls/
Non-primary voters aren't paying any attention to the election right now so none of them know anything about any of the candidates other than Hillary, Trump, and Jeb (because of their long histories).
The presidential candidates are going to have six months of being able to blanket the airwaves with negative ads, Bernie hasn't had one attack ad against him yet...
I'd be curious to see his favorability and odds of winning asked in two parts for each question. The first question would simply be his name, the second would be some neutral way of inserting that he is a self-described socialist (democratic or not). I guaranfuckingtee his numbers drop with the second question.
Yea the attack ads haven't even started yet and you're right. America has NOT warmed up to the idea of Socialism. That word still harbors some sort of innate fear in people.
He's Mexican /s well I wish I could say /s but I'm sure people believe it.
Dicktatorship
Junior Member
Wow, if Bernie actually wins I'm going to be very happy. I still can't wrap my head around *anyone* beating Hillary this time, but gosh I hope I'm wrong.
illusionspark
Member
Why are these numbers never presented to refute Hilary's lead? Why is it that only Bernie's numbers are seemingly always unreliable?Uhh, because of this?
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/a-year-out-ignore-general-election-polls/
Non-primary voters aren't paying any attention to the election right now so none of them know anything about any of the candidates other than Hillary, Trump, and Jeb (because of their long histories).
The presidential candidates are going to have six months of being able to blanket the airwaves with negative ads, Bernie hasn't had one attack ad against him yet...
This poll is trash, like I say every time it gets posted.
It compares a single political ideology (socialism) against various religious, racial and orientation groups.
The percentage for all of those should be 100%, because they say absolutely nothing about the candidate's political leanings. Everyone should be willing to vote for those candidates if they're nominated by their party and follow their political ideology. This is obviously not the case for a socialist...or a liberal or a conservative or a libertarian.
A socialist being electable is still a question mark, but if you want actual evidence you need to compare it with things like "conservative", "liberal", and "libertarian".
Uhh, because of this?
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/a-year-out-ignore-general-election-polls/
Non-primary voters aren't paying any attention to the election right now so none of them know anything about any of the candidates other than Hillary, Trump, and Jeb (because of their long histories).
The presidential candidates are going to have six months of being able to blanket the airwaves with negative ads, Bernie hasn't had one attack ad against him yet...
Looks pretty hit and miss. There's absolutely nothing definitive about this. There's certainly no reason to believe that Hillary's weaker numbers are indicative of her being a shoo-in for the presidency.
But keep playing into that fear.
This person gets it.
teruterubozu
Member
Hillary is also called a socialist by the right.
It really doesn't matter. Democrats = Socialist to the right, whether it's self-proclaimed Bernie, Obama, Hillary, who-the-fuck-ever.
It really doesn't matter. Democrats = Socialist to the right, whether it's self-proclaimed Bernie, Obama, Hillary, who-the-fuck-ever.
He may not be one, but that's what he's going to be viewed as once the attack ads start coming. Hell it's already a name attached to him now.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Because Hillary's lead is in the primary (which is going to start soon) and not the general election (which isn't going to happen for 10 fucking months).
Bernie's fundamental qualities in the general election (Self-proclaimed Socialist, guy who dodges questions on foreign policy) are not at all good in America in 2016.
And really, if Hillary viewed Bernie as a remote threat, she would be spending money attacking Bernie... But she's not.
RustyNails
Member
Honestly I don't particularly care for Hillary. I'm only worried about the legacy we leave behind. The supreme court justices, Obamacare repeal, the wars in middle-east and important budget deals all hang in the balance. Bernie will get routed in the general by Republicans and GOP due to fearmongering about ISIS and his socialist policies and comments. So yes, only Hillary can save us from the destruction GOP will bring.
Because unfortunately most of America is still quite bigoted and think they have to take their country back.
teruterubozu
Member
But I thought Bernie was pulling her to the left, which makes her - *gasp!* - more socialist!
And_Gignac
Member
People know he is a "socialist", but news flash: the Cold War ended 30 years ago -- no one cares, really. The fact that he is a socialist is exactly why he is way more popular than Clinton (and Trump!) with blue-collar white demographics (and with overall whites, too). I dont see Hispanics or Black people deflecting for Trump (lmao) just because Sanders is a self proclaimed social democrat.
It's what the media calls him, himself says he's a democratic socialist aka socialdemocrat. Thing is, Im also a socialdemocrat, but Im more leftist than him in every many ways.
Aaronology
Member
There is a big difference between the right calling their opponents socialists via badly edited adverts and their opponents actually being admitted, publicly avowed and proud socialists. Comparing the two is silly.
It says that this nation is built on the principles of greed and and self-interest. Capitalism in a nutshell. I remember that "America the story of us" show that History channel put out a few years ago. Most of the "celebrities" they brought on to represent Americans were self-made millionaires and billionaires. Not scientists, or people involved with charity work or the like. Nah it's about who made the most money, at the expense of other people. Like those pawn store guys. America.
illusionspark
Member
Does any of what you said make the polls more or less accurate for any particular candidate?
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
*Response to a poll saying that the majority of Americans would not vote a Socialist for president* "No one in America cares if you're a Socialist or not."
???????????????????????????????????????????????
GE polls are worthless all together for all candidates this far out and we should judge candidates on the issues that will affect their electability. Bernie is horrible in that regard.
I will say that if Bernie got Cruz or Trump in the general, he could win because those guys are unelectable also... but the margin would be far less than Hillary's margin, the potential of defeat much higher, and the Senate and House seats gained far fewer. If Bernie wins without a Senate with 60 Democrats and a House with 218 Democrats, then he's going to accomplish roughly zero of his major ideas and his presidency will basically be Hillary's except Hillary has a stronger grasp on executive actions.
teruterubozu
Member
He calls himself a “democratic socialist" to be exact. But like I said, it doesn't matter what you call yourself as a Dem - you'll always be a PURE socialist to the opposition.
illusionspark
Member
Did the OP not post primary polls?
I think the fact that so many people irrationally hate Hilary affects her electability quite a bit.
RustyNails
Member
I mean, he just posted a poll proving otherwise...
Look, I will vote for Bernie when Americans dont throw a shitfit hearing the word socialism. That's maybe 20-30 years away.
Santorum called the Democratic Party a socialist party on Realtime with Bill Maher. Maher said he wished the democrats were socialists.
teruterubozu
Member
Exactly. Even socialists know Bernie isn't a real socialist.
If the GOP Super Pacs choose to spend billions against Sanders in a GE while running Trump and Cruz. They are first of all going to lose a lot of money in the same way they did with Romney, McCain and every subsequent candidate they put forward unless they change what their party stands for. Simply put even if they ran a 24/7 attack ad cycle against Sanders this will only spur the support even stronger. His campaign will probably have a counter of the amount of money Super Pacs are spending on television advertising compared to his grassroots campaign. My personal opinion is that the only way a democrat loses the GE is Voter Turnout below 50% - I don't see how people would choose to elect a Trump or Cruz. Simply put the reality of the situation is that the Republicans have their base who will vote no matter if it's Romney, Trump or Cruz but the percentage of those people is dwindling every election - it's just a matter of Democrats failing to excite regular people who have chosen not to vote in local elections forfeiting power to the Republicans.
So is your poll a lot more worthy than GE Polls ?
First you say he couldn't win because SOCIALISM now suddenly he could win but it would be a smaller margin. Which is it?
So is your poll a lot more worthy than GE Polls ?
First you say he couldn't win because SOCIALISM now suddenly he could win but it would be a smaller margin. Which is it?
And_Gignac
Member
Socialist/Communist is a bogeyman. Once you put a face on it, and such face is the representative of a major party, things get different and people stop caring.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
They are *already* not throwing a fit. Sanders wins independents and has the best presidential match-ups of already candidate - and literally everyone knows Sanders is a socialist. Nobody who currently says "I'm voting Sanders" is going to see a GOP ad saying "Sanders is a socialist!" and think "Oh shit, didn't know that, better change my vote!". It is priced in already - and he is still doing the best. Meanwhile, Clinton is lagging him hard in the GE matchups. She's losing in Iowa, a safe Democratic state, to Cruz. Cruz.
All you're doing here, is that you have a preconceived notion and you have such strength in your belief system that when evidence (and a lot of) pops up to the contrary, you just blank it out and move on.
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