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[industrian]

Are bottom card guys really getting much more than what's disclosed? How much more can we estimate that they're making? Real questions, I don't follow MMA closely so this is all new to me.

I would imagine that a bottom-rung fighter is making 10-20k per fight when disclosed earnings, locker-room bonuses, and sponsorship money is brought into the mix.

But with that they have to pay for training camps, supplements, equipment, food, managers, etc. Some of them even have to pay for extra tickets and hotel rooms for their family and cornermen. Most of the money is probably already spent by the time they get it.

 

[Seeds]

A lot of fighters hold a second job or work at their gym. From the complaint:

It's being kind. I want to say a fighter went on record saying when he factored in flying his coaches to corner him and hotel rooms (UFC only covers this to the bare minimum) he basically fought for free. Not remembering who it is right now to link the story. Maybe someone remembers this.

As far as undisclosed bonuses goes, some fighters have gone on record. I don't remember exact figures, but I've seen a few thousand for guys like Sean McCorkle to someone like Joe Lauzon saying he got a 5 figure amount for a fight in which he likely bled like a stuck pig. Again, not finding links at the moment.

You might be talking about John Cholish who went on to say training camp costs $8,000 to $12,000. But that's for a low ranked guy. Higher ranked guys probably pay a lot more than that. Anyway, that means that if you're getting paid 8k guaranteed and 8k to win, you're likely going to lose money if you lose the fight.

 

[liger05]

They don't have the money and incomes to pay these guys like boxers.

This is where I get kinda confused. Take the recent Las Vegas card last weekend. It wasn't on PPV not a card which would of generated record amounts at the gate yet the paydays for Timothy Bradley was $2 million. Amir Khan $950,000, Devon Alexander $600,000

 

[Heel]

This doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell. The main argument is that the UFC is a monopoly and that there is no other promotional option. The problem is Bellator just did 1.8 million viewers on Spike T.V. (peaking at 2 million, making it the most-watched and highest–rated MMA fight on cable in 2014).

I know it's kind of a hurdle, but it will be hard to have any kind of meaningful discussion on this without reading the complaint in full. "Well, there's Bellator ain't there?" does not magically invalidate the lawsuit.

Read the complaint, friend.

This is where I get kinda confused. Take the recent Las Vegas card last weekend. It wasn't on PPV not a card which would of generated record amounts at the gate yet the paydays for Timothy Bradley was $2 million. Amir Khan $950,000, Devon Alexander $600,000

There's a quote from Arum in the complaint that they give 80% of the take, UFC was alleged at I think 15-20%.

 

[AstroLad]

You might be talking about John Cholish who went on to say training camp costs $8,000 to $12,000. But that's for a low ranked guy. Higher ranked guys probably pay a lot more than that. Anyway, that means that if you're getting paid 8k guaranteed and 8k to win, you're likely going to lose money if you lose the fight.

Lack of money also means that MMA becomes more of a/continues to be a last-resort sport that doesn't attract top athletes who have literally any other decent options. a la boxing. There was a brief uptick there for a few years where it seemed like MMA might break through but I'm honestly not seeing it anymore.

 

[jmood88]

Dana White is a piece of shit and I hope that the fighters win this suit.

 

[BoboBrazil]

How much does a comparative low card guy in boxing make on a fight? Most WWE guys don't even make 100k a year and they have to wrestle 300 nights a year and pay for their own rental car.

 

[liger05]

Lack of money also means that MMA becomes more of a/continues to be a last-resort sport that doesn't attract top athletes who have literally any other decent options. a la boxing. There was a brief uptick there for a few years where it seemed like MMA might break through but I'm honestly not seeing it anymore.

Many a people say the reason Boxing hasn't had a competitive HW division for over a decade is down to those big athletes can earn a lot more in the NFL, Baseball, Basketball and don't have to get punched in the face and go through a hard time before the chance you get of those huge huge paydays.

 

[Heel]

How much does a comparative low card guy in boxing make on a fight? Most WWE guys don't even make 100k a year and they have to wrestle 300 nights a year and pay for their own rental car.

Undercard fighters on televised boxing cards get paid just as badly, or even worse.

 

[coleco]

Definitely has. I used to watch every single card and even the prelims most of the time. I don't know what it is about cards the past few years but now I just miss most of them and maybe read about the ME days after the fact.

They've saturated the market and spread the quality thin. It was their plan since they bought it: they wanted to copy the boxing model with a nice main events and mostly cheap filler everywhere else. Compare recent cards with the last ufcs pre Zuffa (around ufc 31).

Also, the newer fighters seem to lack interest, all very similar. It doesn't help the format and the commentary has been the same for almost 150+ shows.

I hadn't seen a ppv in years and watched the recent one with Mark Hunt vs Werdum for the title. Those two have been there for years and must be close to 40 each.

 

[Nuklear]

Whelp at least Dana White will be finally fired at the very least. Douche should have been fired years ago.

 

[Rest]

I would imagine that a bottom-rung fighter is making 10-20k per fight when disclosed earnings, locker-room bonuses, and sponsorship money is brought into the mix.

But with that they have to pay for training camps, supplements, equipment, food, managers, etc. Some of them even have to pay for extra tickets and hotel rooms for their family and cornermen. Most of the money is probably already spent by the time they get it.

So if we assume the higher end for undercardmen, that's 30k for the 1.5 fights they do in a year plus 8k for the one they don't. That's still not much. As you said, spent before its earned sounds about right.

 

[iMax]

Gotta have enough money to pay this guy:

Remember, he's not in it for the money.

Spoiler

He's so full of it.

 

[FinalStageBoss]

Man those payouts are sad. Not even worth it for the beatings they take.

 

[strobogo]

Somewhere, Vince McMahon wishes he had signed an exclusivity agreement with arenas during the Monday night war.

He did with MSG. The McMahon family has had an exclusive contract for pro wrestling in MSG since the 60s. The closest any other company got was the MSG theater.


Nice to see someone taking Dana to court for being such a cunt.

 

[Jest Chillin]

This is where I get kinda confused. Take the recent Las Vegas card last weekend. It wasn't on PPV not a card which would of generated record amounts at the gate yet the paydays for Timothy Bradley was $2 million. Amir Khan $950,000, Devon Alexander $600,000

You also have to take into account that each fight these guys have are technically completely separate contracts, consider the pay they get from Premium Cable (HBO or Showtime), and the fact that every fighter you listed is a bigger draw than the majority of UFC fighters.

Goldenboy, Top Rank, etc... pay and get paid on a per event basis. If a fighter can't draw, they get paid less and fight in smaller venues. UFC being one company means they contract by years or number of fights, pay for every fight at every venue, and have tv contracts that stipulate a minimum number of events that they must put on. The two organizations are handled quite differently in a number of ways.

 

[Seeds]

Lack of money also means that MMA becomes more of a/continues to be a last-resort sport that doesn't attract top athletes who have literally any other decent options. a la boxing. There was a brief uptick there for a few years where it seemed like MMA might break through but I'm honestly not seeing it anymore.

Yeah. I've always thought that at minimum, fighters should get enough to be able to train full time and then some to put away. The idea that pro athletes are working extra jobs while fighting in the biggest mma org doesn't seem right, so hopefully, something good comes out of this.

 

[Heel]

You might be talking about John Cholish who went on to say training camp costs $8,000 to $12,000. But that's for a low ranked guy. Higher ranked guys probably pay a lot more than that. Anyway, that means that if you're getting paid 8k guaranteed and 8k to win, you're likely going to lose money if you lose the fight.

Yeah, that's it.

John Cholish critical of low UFC fighter pay, says he lost money in previous fights

 

[liger05]

Shame there isn't another promotion who can compete offering fighters another home and causing the ufc to up there game.

As long as their is only one show in town the fighters will one or another be screwed over.

 

[BoboBrazil]

Undercard fighters on televised boxing cards get paid just as badly, or even worse.

So basically boxers and WWE wrestlers should have the same complains, but are too scared to do anything about it.

 

[strobogo]

Can't wait to see why CM Punk's pay day will be. He's going to get paid more than Shogun for sure.

 

[Angry Grimace]

What are the numbers of their ppv shows and how much do they cost? They used to be around 300-500k per show, sometimes much higher. Then the live gate could be another 2-5 million. There's also the ads and additional merchandising, tv deals, tv shows, game licenses, etc.

There's lots of money, even though it's less than it used to be.

That doesn't mean you can pay all the dudes like boxers. I doubt the dudes on the undercard of a boxing match make crazy bank either, for that matter.

 

[hamchan]

For such brutal fights so many of these guys are being paid peanuts.

 

[iddqd]

Mitrione making less then little Pettis is crazy.

I love the sport but this stuff hopefully leads to less events and more money for those involved.

 

[liger05]

You also have to take into account that each fight these guys have are technically completely separate contracts, consider the pay they get from Premium Cable (HBO or Showtime), and the fact that every fighter you listed is a bigger draw than the majority of UFC fighters.

Goldenboy, Top Rank, etc... pay and get paid on a per event basis. If a fighter can't draw, they get paid less and fight in smaller venues. UFC being one company means they contract by years or number of fights, pay for every fight at every venue, and have tv contracts that stipulate a minimum number of events that they must put on. The two organizations are handled quite differently in a number of ways.

Thanks.

I've always wondered how a boxing promoter can say offer an Olympic champion $100k per fight for his first 6 fights without really knowing how popular he will be. His taking the hit himself or the network is putting up the money and the risk?

 

[whytemyke]

So much for MMA picking up and fixing all the things that destroyed boxing.

Dana is a dick but if this goes thru it could end MMA and turn it back to the dark ages.

 

[coleco]

That doesn't mean you can pay all the dudes like boxers. I doubt the dudes on the undercard of a boxing match make crazy bank either, for that matter.

They absolutely don't, but mma pay is also lower for the top fighters besides a few names. Also, boxing preparation usually has lower base costs and injuries are less frequent during training.

Zuffa have been milking the cow dry for years.

 

[Heel]

So basically boxers and WWE wrestlers should have the same complains, but are too scared to do anything about it.

Not particularly well versed on it, but I believe boxing and MMA do have some crossover issues but it's still a bit of an apples and oranges situation. Promoters aren't taking the lion's share, and co-promotion is on the table. Not to say they aren't both sports riddled with scumbags.

UFC and WWE have a ton of crossover issues. Independent contractors, likeness rights in perpetuity, shitty merchandise royalties, non-compete clauses, etc.

 

[strobogo]

Not particularly well versed on it, but I believe boxing and MMA do have some crossover issues but it's still a bit of an apples and oranges situation. Promoters aren't taking the lion's share, and co-promotion is on the table. Not to say they aren't both sports riddled with scumbags.

UFC and WWE have a ton of crossover issues. Independent contractors, likeness rights in perpetuity, shitty merchandise royalties, non-compete clauses, etc.

Would you say both companies are run by carny cunts, friend?

 

[Heel]

Would you say both companies are run by carny cunts, friend?

 

[Vio-Lence]

Steroids and crushing cans in Japan pays in the ufc.


I feel bad for my former friends who still watch this crap.

 

[Alchemy]

I hope this ends up forcing change, the way lower run fighters are paid is such trash. Especially now that the UFC is trying to control sponsors. You either hit a home run with your career or constantly fight against poverty, little room in between.

 

[Jest Chillin]

Thanks.

I've always wondered how a boxing promoter can say offer an Olympic champion $100k per fight for his first 6 fights without really knowing how popular he will be. His taking the hit himself or the network is putting up the money and the risk?

Well there's a lot of different ways they can generate that money by cutting costs (venue) or splitting cost (Co-promotion). They can also hedge their bets by putting that Olympic Champion on the same card as a guaranteed money maker they already have signed, lowering the risk, and set him up against a soft target opponent that he's more likely to beat impressively which would increase his reputation and earning ability.

Boxing has been around for so long that Promoters have these things down to a science. The UFC stands to lose more when it has poor showings but they also have unilateral control over things like Belts, match ups, etc.. within their roster so they work their own system in their own ways.

At the end of the day though the majority of the fighters in either sport aren't going to be making a ton of money.

 

[UFO]

For comparison Mayweather got $32 million guaranteed for his last fight against Marcos Maidana.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

For comparison Mayweather got $32 million guaranteed for his last fight against Marcos Maidana.

Nobody in the UFC is a sixteenth as popular as Mayweather.

 

[Jest Chillin]

For comparison Mayweather got $32 million guaranteed for his last fight against Marcos Maidana.

Mayweather is absolutely not a comparison to be made. He owns his Promotion and does nothing BUT co-promoted events. He basically utilizes leverage that no other fighter in any combat sport including boxing has to make as much money per event as possible.

 

[ShaneB]

Not surprised at all with this news. Really hope this leads to big changes. Love the sport, but it needs serious help.

 

[liger05]

Mayweather is absolutely not a comparison to be made. He owns his Promotion and does nothing BUT co-promoted events. He basically utilizes leverage that no other fighter in any combat sport including boxing has to make as much money per event as possible.

Whether you love or hate the guy what his done for himself as a fighter is pretty incredible. Got him self into a position where he holds all the aces.

http://m.bleacherreport.com/article...yd-mayweather-produces-boxings-biggest-fights

 

[industrian]

So if we assume the higher end for undercardmen, that's 30k for the 1.5 fights they do in a year plus 8k for the one they don't. That's still not much. As you said, spent before its earned sounds about right.

Fighters do stuff on the side as well.

If they're popular and/or technically proficient they can do seminars and training events overseas with every paid for by another gym or organisation.
They may also be called in as sparring partners for another fighter's training camp and get paid for that.
They can do some extra sponsorship on the side (shill some stuff on twitter/facebook or attend trade shows for supplement companies, etc),
They may even be able to be used as extras/stuntmen in b-movies.
And being a security guard is always an option. I think the current Bellator Light-heavyweight Champion was doing this a few months ago as they didn't let him fight (due to their scheduling and tournament system). James Thompson also works security in boxing events.

For comparison Mayweather got $32 million guaranteed for his last fight against Marcos Maidana.

This is like comparing the profitability of Call of Duty games to stuff like Shadow Warrior.

 

[strobogo]

F



This is like comparing the profitability of Call of Duty games to stuff like Shadow Warrior.

Is it? There have been UFC shows that got 1 million buys and no one got close to Mayweather money even if he wasn't co-promoting. The largest MMA pay day ever is rumored to be around $5million (for Brock and GSP), and that was with their extensive sponsors and percentage of the PPV.

 

[BigDug13]

I'm starting to see why so many fighters take it easy and blanket their opponents with a "don't do anything crazy, just make sure you don't lose" strategy. It makes for really boring fights, but if they're fighting to stay on top of the "getting paid peanuts" pile, it's understandable why they won't risk it all.

 

[industrian]

Is it? There have been UFC shows that got 1 million buys and no one got close to Mayweather money even if he wasn't co-promoting. The largest MMA pay day ever is rumored to be around $5million (for Brock and GSP), and that was with their extensive sponsors and percentage of the PPV.

I doubt that the bottom line from PPV buys and ticket prices after deductions for production, logistics, tax and payments to third-parties and intermediates would enable a payday comparable to half of what Mayweather makes.

Also, IIRC Chael Sonnen claims to have made around $8 million in his rematch with Anderson Silva when everything (salary, PPV cut, sponsorships, etc) was taken into account. His "declared salary" for that fight was only $50,000.

 

[OpinionatedCyborg]

Dana White handing out backroom cheques is fucking slimy. It obscures how much fighters are actually paid, putting fighters at a disadvantage during contract negotiations. It let's the Zuffa nuthuggers say, "yeah, some of the fighters are only given pennies, but it's well known that Dana takes care of them after the fight." And it lets Dana play the benevolent dictator.

 

[coleco]

I'm starting to see why so many fighters take it easy and blanket their opponents with a "don't do anything crazy, just make sure you don't lose" strategy. It makes for really boring fights, but if they're fighting to stay on top of the "getting paid peanuts" pile, it's understandable why they won't risk it all.

Also, for a while (maybe still today) the pay scale used to double with every victory, which encouraged playing safe even more. They won't get ko or fight of the night bonuses but they won't risk losing or injury either.

 

[Jest Chillin]

Is it? There have been UFC shows that got 1 million buys and no one got close to Mayweather money even if he wasn't co-promoting. The largest MMA pay day ever is rumored to be around $5million (for Brock and GSP), and that was with their extensive sponsors and percentage of the PPV.

There's been something like 1 or 2 PPV's that have cracked 1 mill iirc. 300k to 500k is a lot closer to the average. Mayweather makes his money coming and going. Getting portions of the gate, concessions, 60/40 split or more with his opponent, etc... He is the outlier of all outliers. No one else can get paid what he does because he's in a comoletely unique position.

 

[Carnby]

If CM Punk stays with UFC, he is a hypocrite.

 

[canadian crowe]

If CM Punk stays with UFC, he is a hypocrite.

One could argue that him even signing with the UFC makes him a hypocrite.

 

[Carnby]

One could argue that him even signing with the UFC makes him a hypocrite.

CM Punk is Morrie from Goodfellas. "Where's my money!? I want my money!"

 

[BoboBrazil]

Punk fighting for the UFC is going to make me watch my first UFC fight since Jon Jones vs Korean zombie .

 

[Carnby]

Punk fighting for the UFC is going to make me watch my first UFC fight since Jon Jones vs Korean zombie .

I would have agreed with you, until I read this.