I don't think "Get a second job" is really the best way to approach fucked up financial systems that screw low level employees.
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UFC Hit With Massive Antitrust Lawsuit By Former Fighters
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I don't think "Get a second job" is really the best way to approach fucked up financial systems that screw low level employees.
BoboBrazil
Member
You watch WWE and they treat performers just as bad.
Dana is getting what has been coming for a long time. Good stuff.
Lol, do u mean aldo vs Korean zombie?
Lol, do u mean aldo vs Korean zombie?
Carnby
Member
That's debatable.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Dana White has been in over his head for years now. He's got the personality of a guy who should be running county fair fight promotions, not a multi-million dollar corporation. It'd be hilarious to finally see his douchebaggery come back to bite him in the ass.
The shit pay that UFC fighters make has been an issue in need of addressing for a long time. Dana used to even flaunt it to show why his sport is so much better than boxing, because he's got everybody under one thumb so you can't have guys like Floyd Mayweather (you know, the guys who actually GENERATE all that money) running around calling the shots. At this point I have no earthly idea why any young athletes get into MMA. Looking at the numbers a lot of guys fighting in the UFC, which is supposed to be the pinnacle of the sport, could probably make more money bagging groceries.
The shit pay that UFC fighters make has been an issue in need of addressing for a long time. Dana used to even flaunt it to show why his sport is so much better than boxing, because he's got everybody under one thumb so you can't have guys like Floyd Mayweather (you know, the guys who actually GENERATE all that money) running around calling the shots. At this point I have no earthly idea why any young athletes get into MMA. Looking at the numbers a lot of guys fighting in the UFC, which is supposed to be the pinnacle of the sport, could probably make more money bagging groceries.
the_log_ride
Member
Now this is a case I'd love to work on...
Egghead White has had this coming to him for awhile now. He always brags about how much the UFC makes and how much he makes gambling, but guys like Miocic get $18k for show money (not counting the bonus) which is ridiculous. Not even gonna get into the chump change for the lower tier fighters.
BoboBrazil
Member
Nah, didn't Jon Jones fight Korean Zombie a couple of years ago?
It's really not. Most of these guys make like 70-80k a year in WWE wrestling 300 nights a year. They also have to pay for alot of their own travel as well. They also don't get to have sponsorships outside of WWE.
Sure, they even fought twice last year. Another rematch is in the works.
Carnby
Member
Nobody is making 8k and told they'll be wiped from history if they look at other options.
I'm not saying wwe is run by saints, but it's the better of two evils.
Jon Jones fights at 205, Korean Zombie (Chan Sung Jung) fights at 145.
the promotions they bought basically killed themselves though. they have never bought a competitor that wasn't having a fire sale.
Fights will be more exciting if the UFC monopoly is killed. Because the only way a fighter can make money is to be exciting are to be highly skilled and hated.
Beyond getting rid of the UFC MMA needs rule changes. Gloves need to go, knees to the head of a downed opponent need to be allowed, and soccer kicks too.
Beyond getting rid of the UFC MMA needs rule changes. Gloves need to go, knees to the head of a downed opponent need to be allowed, and soccer kicks too.
Complaint text:
http://www.cohenmilstein.com/media/pnc/5/media.1675.pdf
Some of the allegations make UFC look really bad.
http://www.cohenmilstein.com/media/pnc/5/media.1675.pdf
Some of the allegations make UFC look really bad.
102. As more fully set forth below, due to the anticompetitive scheme alleged herein, the UFC has been able to suppress Elite Professional MMA Fighters compensation to a very low percentage of the revenues generated from bouts. On information and belief, UFC Fighters are paid approximately 10-17% of total UFC revenues generated from bouts. As alleged further below, all UFC Fightersfrom the highest paid to the lowesthave had their compensation artificially reduced due to the anticompetitive scheme challenged in this Complaint.
103. Athletes in sports such as boxing and the Big 4, i.e., football, baseball, basketball and hockey in the United States, generally earn more than 50% of league revenue, a significantly higher percentage of revenues than those paid to UFC Fighters.
104. Boxers Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquiao take the number one and two spots, respectively, on the Forbes 100-highest paid athletes list, earning upwards of $40 million in guaranteed purse for a single bout, before inclusion of PPV profits.
Mayweathers compensation has reportedly topped $90 million for a single bout for an event that draws comparable PPV purchase rates to high-profile UFC events. As a result of the scheme alleged herein, UFC Fighters get a fraction of that level of compensation.
Famed boxing promoter Bob Arum, for example, pays his fighters approximately 80% of the proceeds generated by a Card. Comparing the fighter compensation between boxing and the UFC, Arum accurately described the disparity between the UFC and boxing as follows: Because of the monopoly that the UFC has, they [the UFC] pay their fighters maybe 20% of the proceeds that come in on a UFC fight.
103. Athletes in sports such as boxing and the Big 4, i.e., football, baseball, basketball and hockey in the United States, generally earn more than 50% of league revenue, a significantly higher percentage of revenues than those paid to UFC Fighters.
104. Boxers Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquiao take the number one and two spots, respectively, on the Forbes 100-highest paid athletes list, earning upwards of $40 million in guaranteed purse for a single bout, before inclusion of PPV profits.
Mayweathers compensation has reportedly topped $90 million for a single bout for an event that draws comparable PPV purchase rates to high-profile UFC events. As a result of the scheme alleged herein, UFC Fighters get a fraction of that level of compensation.
Famed boxing promoter Bob Arum, for example, pays his fighters approximately 80% of the proceeds generated by a Card. Comparing the fighter compensation between boxing and the UFC, Arum accurately described the disparity between the UFC and boxing as follows: Because of the monopoly that the UFC has, they [the UFC] pay
Jest Chillin
Member
This would be terrible and would most likely end up like boxing currently is where there are way too many belts per weight class and the various champs ducking each other whenever they can because losing the belt means lost income.
The monopoly isn't what makes fights boring. The rules are, which you sort of touched on. Though I disagree with the knees to downed guys and soccer kicks. Enough brain injuries as it is in contact sports. Mainly they need to toss out the "Control" aspect of judging that makes takedowns and LnP/Wall and Stall legitimate strategy.
Preventing the UFC from wielding so much power might be better for the fighters but there's really nothing preventing the other organizations from paying just as poorly.
Can Crusher
Banned
Implying that any UFC fighter should be making the kind of paper that spells 40 million, is insane.
Don't see the need to go full retard, this shit ain't that big.
Don't see the need to go full retard, this shit ain't that big.
Video of the press conference
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LK211HFcVI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LK211HFcVI
Knees to a downed opponent and soccer kicks would make fights more exciting and make take downs more risky (and they should be more risky). And the guys who sign up to fight know that brain damage is a risk. I just think these are tools that fighters should be able to use. Even headbutts should probably be allowed.
Jest Chillin
Member
See.. some of this shit is ridiculous. We've already pointed out earlier in the thread that Mayweather is the biggest exception to pay ever. It's a terrible example to make. It's also hilarious that they talk about Mayweather's pay rate and then go on to say Arum plays out 80% when the whole reason Mayweather created his Promotion was because he felt he was getting ripped off by Bob Arum when he fought for him. Maybe that's Mayweathers ego, maybe not but Boxing promoters are notoriously reputed to take huge cuts of a fighters income.
Do you have any real numbers?
I don't know if the lawsuit will go anywhere but there's plenty of interesting info in the complaint about UFC blocking fighter deals with sponsors. Really shady practices.
Is the money there to pay them more? How much is that FOX deal worth?
Last fight I went to was Brown v Silva and Cincy. They announced a crowd of 6,000, but I didn't see it... Didn't help there was a Reds game at the exact same time on the exact same concourse. Not the best event planning.
I wonder what the overhead of hauling all their shit to Cincy, pay crew etc. breaks down to vs what they made at the gate and a proportional amount from the FOX deal and other full time sponsors.
Last fight I went to was Brown v Silva and Cincy. They announced a crowd of 6,000, but I didn't see it... Didn't help there was a Reds game at the exact same time on the exact same concourse. Not the best event planning.
I wonder what the overhead of hauling all their shit to Cincy, pay crew etc. breaks down to vs what they made at the gate and a proportional amount from the FOX deal and other full time sponsors.
That is just some context. They also mention other sports spending around 50%.
Jest Chillin
Member
As was pointed out to me in the MMA thread earlier, the bigger sports have player unions. Which would be a far more effective pursuit in terms of making sure fighters get paid and treated properly.
Without a Union, even if the UFC were completely destroyed by this case, there's nothing preventing other organizations from paying just as poorly. MMA events don't pull the same numbers that traditional sports and boxing pull.
Let's just say the guys at the top aren't hurting for money.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...s-vegas-home-122413+&cd=8&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
si.com: Antitrust lawsuit, if successful, could unravel the UFC
Pretty good general overview of the complaint from someone who actually knows what they're talking about.
Pretty good general overview of the complaint from someone who actually knows what they're talking about.
Jest Chillin
Member
This isn't 12 to 6 elbows we're talking about here. Soccer kicks and knees to the head of downed opponents are genuinely more dangerous. Saying the fighters know the inherent risks doesn't excuse allowing things that are exponentially more damaging to be allowed.
I'm not blood thirsty, but the fights are pretty boring every time I've watched. It's not super exciting watching people lay on the ground hugging each other and one kinda throws a punch every now and then.
Dana and Zuffa/Station Gaming whatever have their other revenue streams.
I seem to be the opposite of MMA fans on the internet lately. I love that there's more cards, but for reasons like I stated (likely losing money on that Cincy show) I think they're in trouble financially.
I'd love to see the books. Unless they're doing a bank job at FOX, I don't think they can afford to pay the fighters much more than they. Just going off PPV buy numbers and door numbers.
Beardz
Member
It really depends on who is fighting. If there's a card coming up, ask us which fights to watch, and we'll tell you.
Dana doesn't own any part of the casinos. He owns 9% of Zuffa (UFC parent).
They're estimated to be worth $3.5 Billion.
Full mount elbows are just as bad as soccer kicks and knees to the head of a downed opponent. And getting knocked out is getting knocked out. Knees to the head and soccer kicks are just a different way of doing it. If you take away gloves I think there will be less broken hands and eye pokes.
What
LiquidSolid
Member
Nope, they're making $500 per match instead. And that's not even taking into account that they have to pay for their own travel and medical expenses. Obviously the better of two evils, m i rite?
This situation portrays the UFC as a pretty scummy company and I really hope it works out for the fighters (and other promotions) but come the fuck on. Trying to defend WWE's even scummier shit is embarrassing and insulting.
Anyway, I love how many of Dana's quotes/tweets are being referenced. If anyone deserves their dickhead comments coming back to bite them in the ass, it's that guy.
Full mount elbows fucking destroy guys. Same thing with MT clinch knees. If people are worried about brain injuries they should be against contact sports period.
The bar napkin math on PPV buys and gates would mean that FOX and other sponsors are giving them the vast majority of that 3.5 billion. That seems like the kind of book cooking casino owners would do to attract investors or potential buyers.
But I also wonder how the NBA and MLB can afford to pay their players what they do.
But I also wonder how the NBA and MLB can afford to pay their players what they do.
TheXfactor
Member
put this in perspective in comparison to boxing, Devon Alexander made 600k vs Khan, Hell Abner Mares just made 250k his last fight.
Now for the big Boys?
Timothy Bradley just made 2 million dollars in his last fight against chavez.
Golovkin just made 1 million against Rubio(Golovkin is grossly underpaid for boxing standards)
Carl Froch just made 13 million against Groves
Manny Pacquiao makes 20 million plus each fight
Floyd Makes upwards to 50 million a fight
Vladimir makes 20 million a fight
UFC fighters are Horribly under paid.
Now for the big Boys?
Timothy Bradley just made 2 million dollars in his last fight against chavez.
Golovkin just made 1 million against Rubio(Golovkin is grossly underpaid for boxing standards)
Carl Froch just made 13 million against Groves
Manny Pacquiao makes 20 million plus each fight
Floyd Makes upwards to 50 million a fight
Vladimir makes 20 million a fight
UFC fighters are Horribly under paid.
Jest Chillin
Member
You can generate a lot more force with soccer kicks and knees to downed opponents (specifically knees to the head from a side control or north/south position).
Future PhaZe
Member
Would be interesting to see if Dana can win. It's a pretty clear cut case against him imo.
what helps a lot of those big name boxers is that they can get away with having abysmal undercards because most people only pay for the main event. most mma fans aren't going to pay 50-60 bucks to only watch one match. dana white thought he could get away with crappy undercards but the massive decline in ppv buys shows otherwise.
Vestal
Gold Member
Usually about 6-8 fights in a boxing PPV. Although the actual televised fight # is about 4 fights.
Vestal
Gold Member
Because they are the entertainment. Just like with any other "sport" they should be compensated accordingly to what the company generates. But the issue here is the lack fo competition which is keeping the compensation so low.
The stars in the UFC make quite a bit of money, though you wouldn't know from the UFC's disclosed payroll. GSP makes 5 million a fight (maybe more), Lesnar and Silva are also in that range. Guys like Rampage, Bones, and Sonnen also make/made bank. It's not on boxing level (which will never happen), but the UFC pays their stars pretty well. The mid and low-tier fighters are the people who get screwed over majorly. And to be fair, the majority of boxers don't make anything either.
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