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Weekend Confirmed - Ep. 55 - April 08, 2011 (Andrea Rene guests)

firehawk12

Subete no aware
StuBurns said:
The point is they're attractive men generally, Nathan Drake for example, the point is certainly wish fulfillment for men as appose to sexual attraction for women, but they're still designed to superficially provide an avatar that is attractive to the audience.

Female protagonists are more rare than men because most gamers are male and video games are product design, your task is to appease the largest amount of your potential audience, and if men prefer to play men, you should make the lead a man. You can make it optional but then people will still complain when you advertise with one over the other like in Mass Effect. It also doesn't allow for as rich a predetermined character.

Some are more transparent than others, Gordon from HL being a common example. A nerd who ends up being the most important man in the world and the love interest of a beautiful woman despite the fact he's repressed to the point of a sociopath. It is part of the product design. Female leads do of course exist, Metroid, BG&E, Parasite Eve, Perfect Dark, Tomb Raider, Silent Hill 3, a couple of the Resident Evil's etc. I don't tend to think many are overtly sexual, Tomb Raider is, PE, PD, but even something like Bayonetta who is an over the top sexually provocative character is an empowered female, she is not meant to be sexually attractive to the player, she's meant to be intimidating.

For all the arguments about females in games, I don't believe they're objectified anymore than any other aspect of those fictional worlds. It's true everyone who wants to can simulate shagging Madison in Heavy Rain for example, but you also get to play her. That relationship doesn't feel like it's earned that intimacy, but that's from terrible writing, not objectification. In very few games can the player fuck anyone. The most stand out example of that kind of thing for me would be GoW, it's based in an alternate fictional history of absolute sexual liberation, but it's still a little sordid. The instance in GoW3 felt valid, the others I don't think should have been there, but in that it's very easy to not do it, in fact in GoW2 you have to go out of your way to find them.
It's purely wishfulfillment for men though. The idea that "well, men are sexualized as much as women so it's equal opportunity objectification" is kind of a facetious argument anyway.

And, let's face it, there are heroines who appeal to men and heroines who appeal to women. Looking at TV right now, you have Mireille Enos from The Killing and Dana Delaney from Body of Proof. Shows for adults featuring women who appeal to adult women and who are not objectified in any meaningful way. Games really don't have that kind of heroine, partly because games are almost always about killing someone or something and partly because of the fact that men want to be appealed to through male bodies.

I don't know if games are up to it anyway. Or at least games made in the West. I've never played them, but I'm assuming Japanese games like Trauma Center are able to offer female protagonists who have much richer and interesting characters than their dudebro counterparts in shooters/action games.
 
Stoffinator said:
I wish Andrea Rene would become a weekly member. I like her. :p

And I was looking forward to more talk of Shift 2. :-[
I think I'd have to stop listening. I don't care for her at all. Seems to me she's content with the status quo in video games (millions of unlocks, every ame making you killing hundreds of dudes etc) and I don't think think she brings anything to the table. In fact I'd rather have Spicer as a permanent guest, he's been pretty good lately.
 

LiK

Member
Garnett and Jeff, listening to you talk about Dead Space is like ripping my heart out, stomping on it over and over again and then shoving it back into my chest.

I AM SAD.

ds-facepalm.gif
 

Rlan

Member
Love you Garnett, but the first 5 minutes of this podcast was some of the most excruciating "SHUT UP AND GET ON WITH IT GARNETT!" moments this podcast has ever had. Listen to Jeff more, please.
 

Havok

Member
Neuromancer said:
Andrea: "If there's no leveling system, no way to unlock new weapons , then what's the point?"

Anyone else remember the days when people used to play multiplayer games because they were fun, not because there were a hundred ranks and guns and perks to unlock?
I haven't reached that point in the podcast yet, but this makes me very sad. I really dislike the modern shooter trend of playing metal riffs for every 20 steps you take and bullet you fire. Progression should be natural and based on you (as the player) being better and better at the game and finding more nuance with the existing systems, not something artificially doled out as a "Good job! You totally killed those dudes! Here's an arbitrarily inflated number of points for your effort." It all feels kind of soulless to me.

I agree that Halo does it well, I think Team Fortress 2 does it well too (although its been so long since I've played that game it might have changed systems entirely), but when such a massive majority of shooters feel that they need to cram this stuff in to compete with Call of Duty, I have no doubts it'll be around for a loooong time.
 

LiK

Member
Neuromancer said:
So appropriate. That entire conversation was depressing. I can't believe not one of the people on the show liked Dead Space. I bet Leahy liked it, man I miss that guy.

Don't worry, Mattas will be back to right this wrong.
 
That anecdote about game companies "not needing ideas" is funny to me. Because a lot of games are devoid of ideas and bad. I sure hope that nameless developer makes some fucking good games.
Rlan said:
Love you Garnett, but the first 5 minutes of this podcast was some of the most excruciating "SHUT UP AND GET ON WITH IT GARNETT!" moments this podcast has ever had. Listen to Jeff more, please.
I don't know what you're talking about but maybe skip ahead?
 

mujun

Member
Garnett was almost too Garnetty for me in this one. Lame innuendo, nasty burp sounds and taking forever to say what he was trying to say.
 

IMACOMPUTA

Member
Garnett --

do you not like horror games because you're scared or the lack of actual scares?


If it's the latter, pleeease try AMNESIA: THE DARK DESCENT on PC.

Really effective scares. Great experience.

EDIT: Just reached the part where you mention it.

Have you tried Silent Hill : Shattered Memories? It's really immersive and full of tension, although i wish they had scrapped all of the "combat" or whatever you want to call it.
 

IMACOMPUTA

Member
Am I the only one that thinks del rio is not very talented? No offense, but i really think there are too many pointless del rio beat/WC dialogue mashups..
 

MrPliskin

Banned
Jburton said:
I really don't know why, It is a good thing more women are involved in playing, commenting and making games ........ I just don't know.

"It is good that more women are involved in their careers, but I think they should stay at home...I just don't know."

Really? Jesus christ man.

Anyway, I'm going to venture a guess and say that Garnett didn't finish Pixel Junk Shooter 1, and that makes me very sad. Either that, or his memory blows :p The magnetic liquid was in the first title.

IMACOMPUTA said:
Am I the only one that thinks del rio is not very talented? No offense, but i really think there are too many pointless del rio beat/WC dialogue mashups..


I don't necessarily think he's not talented, but the throw away stuff he does for WC is often less than stellar. I can imagine he does them in a very short time, but they lack a lot of "rhythm" to me, almost always being off key, random, etc.

I only really cared for the Leahy jingle, now that I think about it =\
 

LQX

Member
StuBurns said:
Maybe a tad...

Fucking hell.

What about 8-4play? That woman is really cool. So was the PixelJunk woman. Jade from the old 1up days?
On 8-4 that woman is the worse. She giggles and agrees with everything like she does not know her place or have a true opinion, no pun intended. She comes off as guest more than a regular on the show which is very annoying.
 

megamerican

Member
mujun said:
Garnett was almost too Garnetty for me in this one. Lame innuendo, nasty burp sounds and taking forever to say what he was trying to say.

Whenever there is a female in the room be prepared for "Cheesey Garnett."

WC desperately needs a Davison type that can keep him in check. Garnett is an amazing host, he just needs a filter. Someone that knows when the topic has run its course, or when the zingers are getting out of hand.
 

StuBurns

Banned
LQX said:
On 8-4 that woman is the worse. She giggles and agrees with everything like she does not know her place or have a true opinion, no pun intended. She comes off as guest more than a regular on the show which is very annoying.
She's fairly passive but I don't think that's an irritant at all personally.
 

IMACOMPUTA

Member
Wow. This episode was a let down!
Andrea Rene, particularly. << "What's the point of playing a game unless you're earning some arbitrary reward the game invented for you to want ? "
How backwards and ridiculous is that? It's a game. Without the game, the XP points do not exist. If the sole purpose of playing the game is to "get stuff" that THE GAME invented for you to want, the game sucks. The little rewards, xp, etc should supplement the FUN you're having playing the game. Not every game needs a leveling system with unlockables. Not every game needs anything.
It's like she requires all of her games to be the same or something. She thinks it a good idea for no NBA game competition??
WAT
How could that EVER benefit gamers? Choice is good, Andrea! More games=happier gamers.

That on top of the brainless discussion about Anonymous and ps3 hackers made me CRINGE.

The podcast is in desperate need of a highly critical, smart hardcore gamer in order to have intelligent discussions. I know you guys didn't agree with a lot of what Andrea was saying, but you just kept your mouth shut..

LEAHY WOULDNT HAVE!!!
FREE LEAHY!
 

Kusagari

Member
IMACOMPUTA said:
Wow. This episode was a let down!
Andrea Rene, particularly. << "What's the point of playing a game unless you're earning some arbitrary reward the game invented for you to want ? "
How backwards and ridiculous is that? It's a game. Without the game, the XP points do not exist. If the sole purpose of playing the game is to "get stuff" that THE GAME invented for you to want, the game sucks. The little rewards, xp, etc should supplement the FUN you're having playing the game. Not every game needs a leveling system with unlockables. Not every game needs anything.
It's like she requires all of her games to be the same or something. She thinks it a good idea for no NBA game competition??
WAT
How could that EVER benefit gamers? Choice is good, Andrea! More games=happier gamers.

That on top of the brainless discussion about Anonymous and ps3 hackers made me CRINGE.

The podcast is in desperate need of a highly critical, smart hardcore gamer in order to have intelligent discussions. I know you guys didn't agree with a lot of what Andrea was saying, but you just kept your mouth shut..

LEAHY WOULDNT HAVE!!!
FREE LEAHY!

You might not agree with what Andrea was saying but a large group of gamers do feel how she does. There are numerous people on this forum who won't play games with hard achievements or refuse to buy indie games because they don't have any achievements.
 

Atruvius

Member
Neuromancer said:
Andrea: "If there's no leveling system, no way to unlock new weapons , then what's the point?"

Anyone else remember the days when people used to play multiplayer games because they were fun, not because there were a hundred ranks and guns and perks to unlock?
I cringed when she said that. Games should be played for fun not for unlocking stuff.

Even though she might have some weird comments I still like her to be on the show. Her voice just sounds so vibrant and fresh compared to the mens' voice.
 

OnlyWonderBoy

Neo Member
LiK said:
Garnett and Jeff, listening to you talk about Dead Space is like ripping my heart out, stomping on it over and over again and then shoving it back into my chest.

I AM SAD.

ds-facepalm.gif
Seconded. I think the biggest problem here was there was no one on the show to defend Dead Space, they all just ripped on it, and any attempts to play Devil's Advocate were half-hearted at best. That said, I found it really sad that they didn't make any mention of the atmosphere that the game creates. I know they joke about the word immersion being over used, but the sound and lighting in Dead Space were able to draw me into the world. Also there was no love for the limb dismembering changing things up from the normal head shot. It sucks when people whose opinions you generally agree with hate one of your favorite games.
 

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
"If there's no leveling system, no way to unlock new weapons , then what's the point?"

Good to see that I wasn't the only one being befuddled by that statement.

When Garnett said he didn't like Dead Space I went "Yeah, finally they're going to disagree on the show!" and then THEY ALL didn't like it.

This sounds like some derivative of the McClintock effect.
 

IMACOMPUTA

Member
Kusagari said:
You might not agree with what Andrea was saying but a large group of gamers do feel how she does. There are numerous people on this forum who won't play games with hard achievements or refuse to buy indie games because they don't have any achievements.

ds-facepalm.gif
 

Curufinwe

Member
It makes me less likely to play a 360 game if almost all of the Achievements are really hard or really time consuming to get. But I had no problem buying a game like Ikaruga where I knew in advance that half of the Achievements were gettable, but the other half would be impossible for me to ever get given my lack of skill at shmups.
 
/rant

Wow was that Dead Space segment ever fucking painful to listen to.

People that want to hack on Dead Space for not being scary need to find a better argument. Scariness is based on just how much the player immerses themselves into the gaming experience.

The player that turns off all the lights, cranks up the 5.1 or puts on earphones is taking a step towards putting themselves INTO that game. Not that you need to do such things. Some people can, and WANT to immerse themselves that deeply so that the game hits them harder.

"All there was in Dead Space were shocks and surprises." (paraphrasing here, but it's been said enough times to make me crazy)

These fucking people don't have a clue. The key word is "anxiety". Dead Space on Zealot and Hard Core raises anxiety to spectacular levels. Levels that are worth experiencing just so you CAN put down the controller and say, "Man...I never want to fucking go through that again."

I'm a boring fucking guy, with a boring fucking life.

Excitement in my day comes from some asshole not signaling in their car and driving across three lanes of traffic to get their Double Double Extra Large at Tim Hortons.

I want to be stressed out by the games I play. I want to be challenged by the games I play. I want to have my ass kicked by the games I play. It forces me to get better at that part in the game, or the game in general.

Here's something "scary" about Dead Space and gaming in general these days.

It's scary that a developer could listen to this segment and walk away from it thinking that these members of the gaming press might be representing a significant portion of the player-base. (and who fucking knows...maybe they are)

But what's scary is that a developer could actually be influenced by this and think that maybe they DO need to make their game less challenging.

Jeff mentioned a couple times he was just hitting on the thought and may not be articulating properly but what it sounds like...what it REALLY sounds like is, "Dead Space was too hard."

All this episode managed to do was really drive home the thing I've been chewing on for the last year to two years is that these people we listen to on these podcasts (not JUST Weekend Confirmed) is that these people don't love video games. They might like them. They might enjoy them, but they sure as hell aren't passionate about them.

Maybe they're burnt out on games? Not sure.

That episode of the MobCast with Blezinski and Bettenhausen. Those guys LOVE games. They love them. You can tell by the way they talk about them.

It's fine to hack on the Dead Space franchise...it has it's problems but that segment really sounded like three people that know fuck-all about games talking about something they shouldn't.

Is it wrong of me to expect that if you're hardcore enough to be on a podcast, that you are actually invested in the subject of that podcast?


So...none of them liked Dead Space...but if memory serves me correctly, two out of three enjoyed Dragon Age II.

Check.
 

StuBurns

Banned
My opinion > your opinion is essentially what that post says.

Playing a game is a relationship, if it fails to draw them in to the degree they are moved by it, that is not only on them, the fault lies with both parties.

So often with games the amount of influence that can shape your opinion is huge. You could just not be in the mood for a certain game at a certain time, it's hardly a crime, and certainly not evidence that someone doesn't 'love' games.

A lot of what made Dead Space significant was that a me too RE clone from EA was leagues better than RE5 (once RE5 came out a few months later). It was the surprise that helped. After years of hearing how it's great, and EAs relentless polymedia productions about the lore, expectations are going to be way higher.
 

mik

mik is unbeatable
My only problem with the Dead Space critique was that I still (having now listened twice) cannot discern what their criticisms are with the game...

It's just Doom 3
I don't like scary things
Dead Space isn't scary enough
"Survival horror" doesn't mean "scary" (despite horror being in the name of the genre)
I don't like being ammo constrained
But wasn't that part in Silent Hill2 where you only had one bullet awesome?
It's good as a straight-up action game

The discussion just wandered all over the place and contradicted itself a number of times. My only real takeaway was "it didn't click with me." Which, I suppose, is enough (if not at all informative)
 

Vanillalite

Ask me about the GAF Notebook
Neuromancer said:
So appropriate. That entire conversation was depressing. I can't believe not one of the people on the show liked Dead Space. I bet Leahy liked it, man I miss that guy.

Leahy is sorely missed when we get a show like this.
 
I'm surprised at the disrespect from Jeff and Garnett toward Dead Space. It is really one hell of a quality game. Labeling it a Doom 3 clone seemed rather over-simplified not to mention inaccurate. Also, Jeff Mattas is no longer permitted to take a podcast off. I don't know or care who the woman was but she brought nothing to the table. Somebody dig up Bettenhousen or something for a cameo instead of Miss scared of my own shadow.
 

Levi

Banned
LQX said:
On 8-4 that woman is the worse. She giggles and agrees with everything like she does not know her place or have a true opinion, no pun intended. She comes off as guest more than a regular on the show which is very annoying.

LOL x 1000
 

MrPliskin

Banned
I cringed when I heard Andrea talk about Resistance *looks at avatar*

I mean...it's one thing to say you don't care for the story, but honestly if you're just harping because it's an alien invasion game...wat? And then you go say that Halo "started it all" in a sense?

WAT?

I don't mean any disrespect, but it was painfully obvious that she was either playing devils advocate, or just tossed it out there as an easy out because she isn't a fan of alien games (which obviously isn't true, since Halo is "about the characters" *rolleyes*).
 

Riposte

Member
f0rk said:
Oh great more circle of death women in gaming discussion. Not heard this one before.

"Circle of death" as in the game where people repeat what others say? If so that's a pretty awesome diss lol. The girl who is on those videogame RPG podcasts, Active Time Babble/Roleplayer's Realm, is worth listening to. She gives off the impression of having a solid history and has no problem talking about mechanics. Can't think of anyone else though. (People really going to say otherwise or just berate people saying "sexist" things?)
 
This has to be the most up-and-down videogame podcast there is. One week it's awesome, the next it's all over the place.

This show needs to find some much needed consistency.
 

lowrider007

Licorice-flavoured booze?
I'm not sure I can forgive Garnett for completely missing out on Motorstorm Pacific Rift, this is coming from a man that said he loved the original MS, not being 'assigned' to the game is a lame excuse for missing out on arguably one of the best arcade racers this gen.
 
lowrider007 said:
I'm not sure I can forgive Garnett for completely missing out on Motorstorm Pacific Rift, this is coming from a man that said he loved the original MS, not being 'assigned' to the game is a lame excuse for missing out on arguably one of the best arcade racers this gen.

It seems like he has a habit of missing sequels to games he loves. Yakuza series says hi.
 

JeffCannata

Neo Member
Wow, this thread has gotten cringe-worthy. And painful. And all the other words that are always used over and over. Three people on one show don't love Dead Space! Oh noes!
 
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