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[Arkeband]

They could've just gone with the original ending where Kuze and Mira fuse, but they didn't because it didn't test well. So they went with this ending that literally tells us that this character is actually Asian.

They literally kill two Asian people and put them in the bodies of white people.

I don't know why the first ending didn't test well - I don't know if they've even confirmed what that first ending was (even though you're speaking of it in definitive terms). It could be that the fusion wouldn't make sense because she originally fused with the Puppetmaster, an AI, which could theoretically exist within her cybernetics. It makes less sci-fi sense, and there is no precedent, for a human brain to fuse with another human brain.

You keep bringing up the same talking points about ScarJo's statement, and while it sounds like a great 'gotcha', the context is clearly that she is not playing another race - such as the guy from Cloud Atlas playing an Asian, or Emma Stone being passed off as authentically Asian. ScarJo's "character" in this movie is a machine with a biological brain that has been wiped. But because this is 'new tech' in this bizarro future, parts of the brain's memories are leaking through, like data that hasn't properly been zeroed out in a wiped hard drive. Her character is still Mira Killian, a machine with a human brain. The identity known as Motoko was killed when they wiped the brain. She had no emotional response to Motoko's mother, she only let her know that her daughter no longer exists but has given rise to a new lifeform that still holds similar ideals. (even though the audience knows they were artificially placed there) (Edit: The only emotion she shows is towards Kuze, but as the movie shows, she doesn't care because his brain used to belong to Hideo, but because she finally found another life form that is going through the same struggle she is.)

This is the cornerstone of the Ship of Theseus thought experiment - when all parts have been replaced, are you the same person. All of her parts were replaced. When they ask her at the end of the movie if she consents, she doesn't say she's Motoko, she says she's Major. She is acknowledging that she is a different being.

Was this twist necessary? I don't think it was. I think it was put in as a weak wink-wink-nod to fans who can't reconcile the anime and the movie being different. Does it seem like whitewashing when there's not two hours of context put to it? Yeah, absolutely. And they should have been cognizant of this inevitable backlash, but they were going to get backlash either way. They were basically fucked no matter what they did.

 

[Jonsoncao]

I don't really have an issue with the twist. She was pissed enough at who did it to her which is enough.

I'm Asian as well, and I did not give a crap that Scar Jo was playing her.

I'm Asian too, and I think Scarlett Jo actually meshes with Motoko very well.

However, the problem is that they added a awkward, unnecessary, and cringey plot to justify that Motoko is played by a white actor.

I mean come on, Motoko is a cyborg with blue hair and red eyes, who gives a shit if she is played by a western actor. Many of the points in the these whitewash bashing are just laughable, for example, that io9 piece.

 

[Phoenix RISING]

No, they killed 98 people and put their brains into "machines". Stop identifying the Major as a person, because she isn't. That is literally the main character, a machine. Everything that the Major does is mechanical.

*cyborg.

Terminators are machines. Cyborgs use human parts, like Robocop.

 

[sun-drop]

Or how better it could have been?

Based on her race? ...Sounds a bit racist to me..

 

[What did he mean by this?]

I don't really have an issue with the twist. She was pissed enough at who did it to her which is enough.

I'm Asian as well, and I did not give a crap that Scar Jo was playing her.

Would you say this "I'm an Asian and I'm okay with this" spiel to the face of an Asian actress who couldnt even get an audition for this movie?

 

[Sami+]

What a joke lol. Everything surrounding the casting in this movie is so gross. Just give an Asian actor the part and don't do this weird meta-accidentally-super-racist plot twist shit to justify your bad casting.

I'm a Syrian Arab, my gf is Filipino and we both think it's bullshit and won't be seeing the movie. Original GitS was dope.

 

[Ashtrax]

*cyborg.

Terminators are machines. Cyborgs use human parts, like Robocop.

 

[mantidor]

It's a very clumsy homage, but it's just that.

I didn't see this movie or the original so maybe it's a dumb question but:

In-universe, is there a reason Hanka Robotics created a white woman's body?

I remember reading her model was based on a generic sex bot? Sex bots made in the shape of Scarlett Johansson Is hardly a stretch, this was the anime though I don't know the movie's explanation for her shell.

This is such a fantastic and intriguing universe to address all modern issues regarding race, gender, nationalities etc, etc, in a world where your body is made on demand, how relevant is its racial appearance? Does your "race" change? Does it even matter? However they would need a fantastic writer to pull it off, and they certainly didn't have that.

 

[Fixed2BeBroken]

It's almost like the ending is like this...

https://youtu.be/7L9io-b9Uew

"THEY SAYING DEEP DOWN, WE ALL WANTS TO BE WHITE!"

i mean kinda...


With that said, So I saw the movie.....and I gotta admit, the movie itself, is solid, good even. Music was Amazing. Directing was great. They nailed cyberpunk to a T.

But I couldn't help the whole time thinking "man, this would have been perfect with an Asian actress" everytime I saw Scarjo. It just kept annoying me through the whole film.

Then after the twist it's like...really? I mean, the implication of it is just kinda ridiculous. Good film but so flawed because of casting. I mean, this would have been a 9/10 film with a good Asian actress. I firmly believe this.

Also, Batou was dope

 

[UnemployedVillain]

It's a very clumsy homage, but it's just that.



I remember reading her model was based on a generic sex bot? Sex bots made in the shape of Scarlett Johansson Is hardly a stretch, this was the anime though I don't know the movie's explanation for her shell.

In the 95 movie she's literally in a generic woman's shell (design wise, it's a military grade body though). We literally have a scene where she sees 2 other people with the exact same body on her commute to work

 

[Mobius 1]

I'm trying to objectively look at this and I can't seem to agree on the level of outrage.

Correct if I'm wrong here, as I understood the film:

- Motoko and Hideo were abducted by Hanka. They were ethnically Japanese (although besides the name and the mothers accent, it wasn't explicitly stated).

- Their ghosts were put into Caucasian-looking shells.

- Hanka seemed to be a western company making caucasian looking shells.


Seems plausible to me, particularly in that world where nobody seemed to give a fuck about ethnicity. That's in line with the source material.


So is this outrage just an extension of the initial complaints that the cast wasn't mainly Asian?

 

[mantidor]

In the 95 movie she's literally in a generic woman's shell (design wise, it's a military grade body though). We literally have a scene where she sees 2 other people with the exact same body on her commute to work

Yeah I remember the big thing was that her body was generic as it would make her easier to blend and inflitrate, but then I remembered there was something about it being also a generic sex bot.

The point is that it's a generic, mass produced model.

 

[Zoe]

Yeah I remember the big thing was that her body was generic as it would make her easier to blend and inflitrate, but then I remembered there was something about it being also a generic sex bot.

The point is that it's a generic, mass produced model.

Generic, mass produced models don't exist in the live action universe.

 

[AgentP]

Yup. The "we don't want to take a risk on an unknown actor" thing is horseshit.

It's called playing it safe to avoid risks. Just about all big name actors are white. It's the same reason they brought in Matt Damon to do that awful wall movie. Big names sell movies.

Everyone's feigning of surprise is more surprising. A studio isn't going to gamble on a no name Asian actress just to make internet and cartoon nerds happy.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

Saw this last night and honestly, I don't have a problem with the twist. That said, I think they could have handled the whole situation better if they hadn't also made human Kuze Asian. That's when it starts to look weird imo.

 

[Poor GRIMES]

It's called playing it safe to avoid risks. Just about all big name actors are white. It's the same reason they brought in Matt Damon to do that awful wall movie. Big names sell movies.

Everyone's feigning of surprise is more surprising. A studio isn't going to gamble on a no name Asian actress just to make internet and cartoon nerds happy.

How did playing it safe work out for GiTS' box office?

 

[Fixed2BeBroken]

I'm trying to objectively look at this and I can't seem to agree on the level of outrage.

Correct if I'm wrong here, as I understood the film:

- Motoko and Hideo were abducted by Hanka. They were ethnically Japanese (although besides the name and the mothers accent, it wasn't explicitly stated).

- Their ghosts were put into Caucasian-looking shells.

- Hanka seemed to be a western company making caucasian looking shells.


Seems plausible to me, particularly in that world where nobody seemed to give a fuck about ethnicity. That's in line with the source material.


So is this outrage just an extension of the initial complaints that the cast wasn't mainly Asian?

In that world yes....

but at the end of the day, it's like a asian person being better, faster, stronger, more beautiful and "Actually accepted" (the major keeps saying she doesn't feel accepted but everyone reassures here she is human and belongs and is accepted) by being in the Caucasian body. It's the unintentional (or intentional, we will never know) subliminal message.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Generic, mass produced models don't exist in the live action universe.

That's another thing that annoyed me. The live action version seems to be set a good 10-20 years behind where the series is suppose to be. The Major isn't suppose to be the first breakthrough in full cyberization. Such nonsense

 

[LotusHD]

How did playing it safe work out for GiTS' box office?

 

[Fixed2BeBroken]

How did playing it safe work out for GiTS' box office?

 

[Dash_Riprock]

How did playing it safe work out for GiTS' box office?

Indeed.

 

[Slayven]

How did playing it safe work out for GiTS' box office?

Damn......

 

[mantidor]

How did playing it safe work out for GiTS' box office?

We have like zero points of comparison, maybe the Dragon Ball movie? But that was so awful it really doesn't compare.

Would have been a nice experiment, but we simply have no proof the movie would have done better with a no name lead.

Edit: It actually has one more thing and that is having a female lead. In the handful of movies that have a female action lead how many had an unknown lead? How did they fare?

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

A studio isn't going to gamble on a no name Asian actress just to make internet and cartoon nerds happy.

It's good that that wouldn't be the reason they'd do it then.

I appreciate the jumps to conclusions and assumptions you've made to dismiss the issue of Asian representation and value in America.

Why is a "no name Asian actress" worth less than the no name white actors who have had many chances to start their careers by carrying big movies? Be specific.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

How did playing it safe work out for GiTS' box office?

 

[Kickz]

Was there any cgi asian eyes on any nonasian people?

 

[Dash_Riprock]

Was there any cgi asian eyes on any nonasian people?

Like this?

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

I don't really have an issue with the twist. She was pissed enough at who did it to her which is enough.

I'm Asian as well, and I did not give a crap that Scar Jo was playing her.

You should read this: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/29/...-for-visibility-they-will-not-be-ignored.html

I don't know what to tell you if you don't give a crap about your own people in Hollywood after reading that.

 

[Trokil]

How did playing it safe work out for GiTS' box office?

I don't know. It passed Power Rangers in total almost on the first weekend, did about XXX numbers, which made 346 millions world wide. You tell me.

 

[Mega]

How did playing it safe work out for GiTS' box office?

What's worse is that ScarJo's career and future casting options will remain as strong and endless as ever. If it was an Asian actress, this would have been a career ender for her as a movie lead.

 

[Slayven]

What's worse is that ScarJo's career and future casting options will remain as strong and endless as ever. If it was an Asian actress, this would have been a career ender for her as a movie lead.

She learned from the best, Ryan Reynolds

 

[wazoo]

What's worse is that ScarJo's career and future casting options will remain as strong and endless as ever..

Of course. That is pure logic. She had an history of success and GITS is a risky anime material. She will got the benefit of the doubt. It takes a few flops to kill you. Costner got killed by Wyatt Earp + WaterWorld + Postman, for example.

 

[Not]

It's called playing it safe to avoid risks. Just about all big name actors are white. It's the same reason they brought in Matt Damon to do that awful wall movie. Big names sell movies.

Everyone's feigning of surprise is more surprising. A studio isn't going to gamble on a no name Asian actress just to make internet and cartoon nerds happy.

The white actors they keep casting instead still aren't selling the fucking movies though. You missed the entire, entire, entire point.

 

[cartographer]

I don't know. It passed Power Rangers in total almost on the first weekend, did about XXX numbers, which made 346 millions world wide. You tell me.

You offered a cop out and ran away last time someone pressed you on this. Is this going to go the same way?

 

[MrChowderClams]

I don't know. It passed Power Rangers in total almost on the first weekend, did about XXX numbers, which made 346 millions world wide. You tell me.

It didn't do so hot in the US according to this Variety article.

$19M in the US so far (article was published yesterday). I think it'll probably do better in foreign markets actually. Sounds like Japan and China have yet to open, and I think the whitewashing controversy isn't as pronounced there.

Edit: better source. $19M in USA, $40M abroad.

 

[Trokil]

You offered a cop out and ran away last time someone pressed you on this. Is this going to go the same way?

The international numbers are there right next to the domestic numbers. I know this is hard for some people, but the world is not just one country.

 

[Not]

ITT:

"Hey I'm white and I don't see a problem. The story allows for it"

"Hey I'm Asian and I don't empathize with Asian-American actors"

"Hey I'm neither white nor Asian but I don't think Asians are trying hard enough"

And the world remains the same

 

[smileyforall220]

How did playing it safe work out for GiTS' box office?

That has nothing to do with the fact that ScarJo was the lead. If the movie had better writing, it would have done better. Having an Asian as the lead would have made no difference, in fact it would have done worse if it was an unknown. Even then, it's a pretty unique movie style wise and subject matter wise, so it was already a niche property that wasn't going to appeal to everyone.

 

[Trokil]

It didn't do so hot in the US according to this Variety article.

In the same article is says, it made 40.1 millions abroad over the weekend. And it is not out in China and Japan.

 

[Zoe]

The international numbers are there right next to the domestic numbers. I know this is hard for some people, but the world is not just one country.

WoW made bank in China, but it's still considered a bomb.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

I don't know. It passed Power Rangers in total almost on the first weekend, did about XXX numbers, which made 346 millions world wide. You tell me.

Are you just making up numbers? Box Office Mojo only has it at 40 million internationally

 

[Zoe]

Are you just making up numbers? Box Office Mojo only has it at 40 million internationally

He's claiming it will trend to that because that's how XXX went.

 

[MrChowderClams]

In the same article is says, it made 40.1 millions abroad over the weekend. And it is not out in China and Japan.

Still not what you'd call a runaway success ¯_(&#12484_/¯. In comparison, Boss Baby did about $49M in the US alone during the same time period. The international markets may soften the financial blow but I think it would be a stretch to call the opening weekend of GiTS a financial success.

 

[cartographer]

The international numbers are there right next to the domestic numbers. I know this is hard for some people, but the world is not just one country.

We all understand that. What you don't seem to understand is how those numbers affect the studios. Not all gross is equal to the studio.

And this doesn't touch on your "Hollywood accounting" cop out.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

He's claiming it will trend to that because that's how XXX went.

That makes absolutely no sense

 

[Sayad]

What's worse is that ScarJo's career and future casting options will remain as strong and endless as ever.

To be fair, there's no lack of roles where her inability to act is a plus.

 

[Trago]

To be fair, there's no lack of roles where her inability to act is a plus.

LOL

 

[Trokil]

We all understand that. What you don't seem to understand is how those numbers affect the studios. Not all gross is equal to the studio.

And this doesn't touch on your "Hollywood accounting" cop out.

Well, let's wait for the numbers and DVD / blu-ray sales and then you can tell me if I was wrong and also if playing it safe was a problem from a financial standpoint.

 

[Kickz]

Like this?

Yea that

 

[Slayven]

People think studios get all that money from overseas? Aren't they lucky if they get 50 cents of every dollar it makes in some markets?