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VIDEO: Motorcyclist kicks car, triggers chain-reaction crash on 14 Freeway
- Thread starter Ursn
- Start date
Seriously, the motorcyclists with persecution complexes in this thread should really take a step back and choose another hill to die on.
You absolutely cannot determine intent from the swerve, and I sincerely doubt any court of law is going to charge the car driver for attempted manslaughter, because there is no proof beyond reasonable doubt.
What IS beyond a reasonable doubt is that the motorcyclist initiated an accident that could have resulted in fatalities, but decided to book it instead of sticking around.
You absolutely cannot determine intent from the swerve, and I sincerely doubt any court of law is going to charge the car driver for attempted manslaughter, because there is no proof beyond reasonable doubt.
What IS beyond a reasonable doubt is that the motorcyclist initiated an accident that could have resulted in fatalities, but decided to book it instead of sticking around.
No, attempted vehicular manslaughter for trying to hit a motorcyclists by ramming him with his car, which is clearly visible in the video.
LizardKing
Member
Jesus christ. This guy is blaming every other driver when he's driving like an aggressive asshole and zipping past traffic and in and out of cars. He's the one nearly causing most of those problems. It's like there's a motorcycle entitlement where you can go fast, accelerate faster than everyone else, zip in between cars and then blame everyone else when they didn't anticipate you. No wonder people are caught off guard. Whether some of his actions are legal or not. I mean I don't know the speed limits or how fast he was going but he was flying past the other traffic, and merging in and out being very aggressive.
cpp_is_king
Member
Clearly you aren't familiar with how the law works in this country.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
What the. Guy kicked the car...
Who kicks a moving car while riding a motorcycle, and better yet who does that and isn't regarded as the one at fault for what happens
He had a lot on his mind.
I'm curious how all you saying the driver is innocent feel about this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06RU_-dLTGI
Motorcyclist breaks the law, car swerves into them and causes them to crash. Driver claims he was stung by a wasp. Surely he was innocent right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06RU_-dLTGI
Motorcyclist breaks the law, car swerves into them and causes them to crash. Driver claims he was stung by a wasp. Surely he was innocent right?
Convicted of two counts of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. Sentenced to 15 years.
The motorcyclist should be charged with hit and run and leaving the scene of the accident only because he left the scene and didn't stay around Otherwise If he would have stayed than he shouldn't have been charged with anything. The driver of the car swerved to hit the motorcyclist and causing the accident.
The one at fault here is the driver not the motorcyclist.
So it seems like your not either.
If the car driver intentionally (I guess that's up for debate, but to me it looked intentional) tried to sideswipe the motorcycle, then the accident is the driver's fault. That is not an appropriate response to someone kicking your car, and is basically attempted murder on top of it.
TheOohChild
Member
Kicking a car doesn't cause a truck to roll. Losing control of your car trying to slam a biker in to a highway divider causes a truck to roll.
Yeah. I'm utterly baffled that this was held up as an example of cars being the problem.
Yeah, glad the driver was convicted for that. Jesus.
Fluffernutter Pancake
Member
This ---- what was he doing, especially all that happened after he ploughed into the median wall ------like he had his foot on the accelerator instead of the brake.
There was no need to go speeding right into the main highway traffic area and plow into the truck broadside. The guy should've been out of commission after that first wipeout.
And what's up with the biker just peace outing after the whole thing went down?
Whole thing is very shady
cpp_is_king
Member
Except your entire argument is based on the *assumption* that swerve was intentional. Which it very well may be, but without further evidence there is a reasonable doubt, and you're ignoring that because the internet is a fun place to act like an expert on everything in the world.
A similar thing would be visible in a video of someone shooting an RPG at a car, and the car swerving to avoid the RPG and hitting someone. Would that be attempted vehicular manslaughter too? Your assumptions are clouding your objectivity.
bender
What time is it?
The intent in that video is clear. There is debate to be had in the video this topic is about. I also don't believe many are saying the sedan driver is definitely innocent but that there is doubt about the sedan driver's intent. More video leading up to the kick would help better understand. At best they are negligent .
cpp_is_king just said it much better than I did.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
All that can be said with absolute certainty about the car driver is that he or she is a bad driver who overcorrects and may need to have their license taken until they can prove they are a safe driver again. Anything beyond that is purely assumption, unless you're psychic. In which case please disclose tonight's lotto numbers please and thanks.
Meanwhile Mr. Two-Wheel Turbodouche kicks a car on a freeway, putting himself and others into danger. And then speeds away when when he's involved in a major accident. He acted criminally and should spend some time paying for that.
The fact so many will defend the motorcycle madman or find the car driver is more at fault from the video alone is pathetic and speaks ill of them.
Meanwhile Mr. Two-Wheel Turbodouche kicks a car on a freeway, putting himself and others into danger. And then speeds away when when he's involved in a major accident. He acted criminally and should spend some time paying for that.
The fact so many will defend the motorcycle madman or find the car driver is more at fault from the video alone is pathetic and speaks ill of them.
King Gilga
Member
Because unless you're superman kicking a car like a neanderthal doesn't accomplish anything except self harm.
That is, unless the driver of the car you is some kind of homicidal psychopath who then tries to check you into a barrier and ends up crashing like the moron he/she is.
Slackbladder
Member
You can easily kill someone using your car to ram someone on a bike. Pretty difficult to do kicking a car whilst on a bike. Ultimately the driver chose to ram the bike and lost control. Though both share the blame the actions of the driver were significantly more dangerous.
You're comparing a light kick which does absolutely nothing to a moving car versus a rocket launcher. I don't think it's MY objectivity that's in question.
There is actually context in this case (road rage between two drivers as witnesses by those filming), versus some dude just randomly swerving passed the double-yellow. I disagree that you can distinguish from intent in one video versus the other if you're going to claim there's a question of intent in the video in OP.
The fact that so many of you are so willing to come to the defense of someone who was engaging in road rage simply because of your hatred towards motorcyclists is what's truly sickening. Nobody is justifying the riders actions, how about you guys stop trying to justify the drivers?
How you (and several others) have managed to completely miss the point on what I was saying is beyond me. I've never absolved him of anything. I think he belongs in jail with the driver. All I ever said was it's much easier to run away than to face the music, so I can see why he did it. I think it was a stupid and selfish decision, but I'm not shocked by it. How exactly is that absolving him or placing all the blame on the driver of the car?
What I learned today on neogaf, was that if we don't agree with someone we shouldn't empathize. I get your point, if that was me on the bike I would have likely bolted too, I can't say one way or the other what I would have done, I've never been in that situation, but I can totally understand why he did.
ZeroCypher
Member
Haven't read through all the comments but I agree with those who say the motorcyclist should be charged with hit and run or leaving the scene of an accident they were involved in. If he kicked the car and the car let it go from there vs deliberately swerving at the motorcyclist, he motorcyclist would be at fault for damaging property. The car should be charged with attempted vehicular manslaughter and whatever else he caused. We don't have the premises for the reckless driving and aggression seen on the video so we can only conclude based on what's presented to us. Not mattering who is at fault, it's sad to see consequences of their conflict affecting innocents. (The truck/suv's insurance should pin the claims on the car)
King Gilga
Member
Peace sign?
Do you live in japan or something?
Thankful head nod/backwards wave/thumbs ups w/e but I've never seen someone on a bike throw a peace sign out.
In Ontario any time a rider passes another rider, a wave/peace sign is exchanged.
King Gilga
Member
That seems like way too much effort, we just do a head nod at best if we bother.
Yeah, it's a bit of effort. I mean, not everyone does it, but a lot.
TheOohChild
Member
What do you think about the people strongly arguing that the person in the car was just driving like a nervous nelly, oh great beacon of objectivity? Do they also belong on the bottom of your shoe for assuming too much or do you just agree with them more?
ZeroCypher
Member
I used to wave to other riders and they would wave back (Texas)
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
Lol kicking a car is like firing a fucking RPG at a car... Who was whining about hills to die on again? It's also pathetically sad that people can't understand that even if you disagree that it's international, you should at least have bare minimum empathy to realize that you're apparent inability to drive a car or not have small noses have you twisting the wheel nonstop while not even fucking breaking CAN KILL AND MAIM PEOPLE. This isn't a complicated concept, if you're this bad at controlling a motor vehicle that you shouldn't be driving and potentially injuring or killing people because that's what your stupidity does.
I've actually never been a place in the states that doesn't do that he described.
Yeah, not sure if you ride or not but most motorcyclists do "the wave" when passing each other.
You really have to be innocent or stupid to believe this. I mean not only does it not make sense, but its so bold when you don't have the whole picture.
That's the one thing you can absolutely blame him for and any jury would convict him for that
The kick was, quite likely, one of a series of escalating actions the drivers of each vehicle were involved in. The kick is the stating point for the video, not the incident, so we cannot say with any certainty where the whole incident started.
But the swerve is what causes the accident. Of that there can be no debate, because the car swerving is literally what caused it.
The only real debate to be had here is whether the swerve was intentional.
This does not in any way excuse the kick. We can say that the biker kicking the car is idiotic, illegal and dangerous. And also that the actions of the car caused the accident. Both are true. The question is intent, as you noted. (The intent of the biker seems clear enough.)
rockinreelin
Member
Honestly I don't think the driver in the car was intentionally swerving to hit the motorcyclist. I have sorta experienced this in the past when I have been cut off by a speeding driver on a freeway and honked at them. This startled the fuck out of those drivers. They don't expect that and it cases them to jerk their steering wheel swerving their cars. A co-worker did something similar to a driver while riding his bike on the freeway as well. Driver was drifting into his lane so he just tapped the side of the car with his hands to let him know. Startled the driver and sent the car into a bit of a swerve accidentally. Scared the fuck out of him and he never did it again he said.
bender
What time is it?
Seeing the footage leading up to the kick would be useful. I could see the swerve being oblivious person being surprised by a thud on their door and overreacting or ever escalating road rage by two idiots. The old man in the second video admitted to swerving into the motorcycle with the two riders and there was no road rage on their part, just a bit of unsafe lane changing/passing. You also saw a good bit of footage before and after the incident unlike the first video where we are just introduced with the kick. Intent in one seems clear and I'm left with doubt in the other. As these thread as evidence, people are questioning intent of the sedan driver and I don't think that is unreasonable. I also think if you started a thread with the second video, the reactions wouldn't be near as mixed.
As sad as it is to say, it's probably road rage but my gut reaction was a panicked reaction as I'd like to think no one is a big enough scumbag to swerve into a motorcycle.
Try riding a motorcycle around for a week. People do it all the time.
cpp_is_king
Member
What's also not a complicated concept is that we don't have proof of the driver's intent, but we do of the motorcyclist.
Big Baybee
Member
No way of knowing whether or not that swerve was intentional. Could have easily just been startled by the bang on the side of their car. We do know for a fact that the dumbass on the motorcycle initiated. Just based on the video we have.
Yes drivers on a weekly basis intentional swerve into a bikers, rollseyes.
The intent of the car is up for debate, there's a number of excuses and if you combine that with a bad driver in the first place or something you get what happened.
What the bike did was reckless and fleeing the scene of the accident he help initiate or didn't even attempt avoid but rather aggravate further is in itself a crime.
Watched in and yeah. If that's your example, then might as well give up the argument.
Chris Taber, the driver who shot the video, says moments before he grabbed his phone, the motorcyclist had also passed him between lanes.
Then, when the Nissans driver tried to get out of the carpool lane, he bumped the motorcycle. Traber doesnt know if it was an accident or on purpose. Thats when the two men started yelling and the biker started kicking the Nissan drivers door.
Im sure the guy on the motorcycle was scared and totally startled because he almost went down and Im sure his adrenaline kicked in, Traber said.
Meanwhile, the father of the Nissan driver told KCAL 9 off-camera that his son became scared when he said the biker flashed that looked like a knife at him.
Benavidez also spoke to the 19-year-old following the crash.
He came and saw to it that I was okay, says Benavidez, You know, he had a bottle of water. He gave me a bottle of water. He was kind of in shock himself. He apologized.
Anyone with information or who may have witnessed this crash can call the CHP Newhall Area office at (661) 294-5540.
Then, when the Nissans driver tried to get out of the carpool lane, he bumped the motorcycle. Traber doesnt know if it was an accident or on purpose. Thats when the two men started yelling and the biker started kicking the Nissan drivers door.
Im sure the guy on the motorcycle was scared and totally startled because he almost went down and Im sure his adrenaline kicked in, Traber said.
Meanwhile, the father of the Nissan driver told KCAL 9 off-camera that his son became scared when he said the biker flashed that looked like a knife at him.
Benavidez also spoke to the 19-year-old following the crash.
He came and saw to it that I was okay, says Benavidez, You know, he had a bottle of water. He gave me a bottle of water. He was kind of in shock himself. He apologized.
Anyone with information or who may have witnessed this crash can call the CHP Newhall Area office at (661) 294-5540.
lol he was going for his knife!.... so I tried to smash him into a barrier.
So yeah 100% driver fault.
So what you are saying is you don't have a motorcycle?
So yeah 100% driver fault.
So what you are saying is you don't have a motorcycle?
cpp_is_king
Member
Wait, I'm confused. the motorcyclist came up and offered the driver of the nissan a bottle of water? Or am I misunderstanding?
Nissan driver to the SUV I think
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