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[Jason's Ultimatum]

Doesn't undercover journalism usually consist of someone else breaking the law and the journalist catching them, not the "journalist"?

Otherwise, you might be willing to justify the whole voice mail scandal from earlier.

Yeah, this is like the polar opposite of what most journalists do. Undercover journalists usually asks the questions to try and obtain information.

 

[perfectchaos007]

Dr. Paul can still win this thing!

Paul is still 4th in SC, but as long as someone other than Romney wins in SC, its still a wide open race

 

[The Librarian]

Paul is still 4th in SC, but as long as someone other than Romney wins in SC, its still a wide open race

Nope. He'll still be cruising toward the nomination even if he comes in second or third in SC. Romney's racking up endorsements left and right. Jonathan Bernstein goes into a lot more detail.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

"I like being able to fire people who provide services to me . . . you missed a spot Jose . . . "

How did you know the guys name was Jose?

 

[Cyan]

And you really want to start jailing investigative journalists?

Nah, just this dumbass.

 

[Clevinger]

And you really want to start jailing investigative journalists? Wow.

I'm not sure I understand. Do you really want investigative "journalists" (have to put that in quotes, sorry) to be immune from the consequences of breaking laws?

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Sucks that when you ignore someone, you can still there threads. I see Manos created one for Romney. Funny enough, I have the first poster to reply in his thread on ignore, too.

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

I'm not sure I understand. Do you really want investigative "journalists" (have to put that in quotes, sorry) to be immune from the consequences of breaking laws?

Not in all cases, but I think of them in almost the same light as "whistleblowers". Exposing corruption or problems in the system is a good thing.

Nah, just this dumbass.

He's a squirrely little bastard, isn't he?

 

[Kosmo]

How did you know the guys name was Jose?

Lots of Jose's in airport security....?

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Not in all cases, but I think of them in almost the same light as "whistleblowers". Exposing corruption or problems in the system is a good thing.

But in O'Keefe's case, this isn't true.

 

[KtSlime]

I'm not sure I understand. Do you really want investigative "journalists" (have to put that in quotes, sorry) to be immune from the consequences of breaking laws?

I'd say if they are attempting to break the law, just to show that the law can be circumvented easily, maybe...

Like if my local news needed a 5 minute story, and they went into a Home Depot, to 'return' something without a receipt. Then afterwards they told the store what they did, why they did it and returned the money. Then yeah, I don't think they should be prosecuted.

Obviously this would have to work based on understanding the intent, and on a case by case basis.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Lots of Jose's in airport security....?

That or someone is making a stereotyped assumption.

 

[RDreamer]

Oh my God. HILARIOUS!!!! Holy shit! Stephen Colbert has announced he will run President in the Republican South Carolina primary, and in order to do so, will hand over control of his Super PAC to JON STEWART.

http://palmettopublicrecord.org/2012/01/12/colbert-super-pac-making-media-buys-in-sc/

YES! I'm definitely tuning in tonight. This could be hilarious. Too bad he'll only be a write in. I'd love to see the media talk about it if he was an option and managed to get a huge chunk of votes.

 

[Dr. Pangloss]

Those supporting O'Keefe should also consider supporting Bradley Manning. He was just trying to show how bad the Defense Department's security apparatus was. He didn't really do anything wrong. Anyone could have gone on that computer and put a CD in.

 

[Centurion]

Sucks that when you ignore someone, you can still there threads. I see Manos created one for Romney. Funny enough, I have the first poster to reply in his thread on ignore, too.

you're ugly...

oh wait you can't see that because im on your ignore list, for shitting on you for pretending to talk about something you knew nothing about.

did I mention you're ugly?

 

[jamesinclair]

you're ugly...

oh wait you can't see that because im on your ignore list, for shitting on you for pretending to talk about something you knew nothing about.

did I mention you're ugly?

He can read it if I quote you!

 

[Centurion]

He can read it if I quote you!

don't worry, he's vain enough to un-ignore, if only to see what I wrote...

 

[GillianSeed79]

As a Democrat in a largely conservative country I feel like it's like having battered wife syndrome. I'm already resigning myself to the odds that Romney will probably win if/when he gets the nom.

Sure, I'll vote for Obama, but I can't shake the feeling this election will simply be a replay of Reagan V. Carter without Ted Kennedy's drunk ass and no Iranian hostages.

My only solace will be that at least Romney isn't a batshit crazy Tea Party loon, or Rick “Theocracies are bad unless they are based on Christianity and I'll respect gay people by treating them like second class citizens” Santorum, or Rick “Bush version 2.0” Perry or Newt “the hypocrite” Gingritch.

I could live with Paul. I could even live with Huntsman.

But damn if the picture in the Romney OT sums up everything I hate about Romney with the passion of a thousand suns, but he's at least better than Bachman right? right?

Who am I kidding, I'm going to cry in the corner for the next 20 years until America's demographics finally change to the point where Republicans will have to evolve or die as a party.

 

[Slurpy2k20]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/11/mitt-romney-envy-south-carolina-primary_n_1200454.html

Yeah, go fuck yourself Romney. This shitstain will be the republican nominee? Everything that has happened the past few years, how so many people were fucked, how the rich got richer- it's all in our minds, no problems exist, it's basically just 'envy'. Wow. Can someone be any more out of touch, condescending, and thick?

 

[ReBurn]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/11/mitt-romney-envy-south-carolina-primary_n_1200454.html

Yeah, go fuck yourself Romney. This shitstain will be the republican nominee? Everything that has happened the past few years, how so many people were fucked, how the rich got richer- it's all in our minds, no problems exist, it's basically just 'envy'. Wow. Can someone be any more out of touch, condescending, and thick?

He's just pandering to the base. It's a recurring theme. Both republicans and democrats like to play the class warfare card, and it works equally well for both side when talking to the base.

 

[ToxicAdam]

See, I didn't see it as pandering to the base, I saw it more as him telling the absolute truth about how he feels. Which is refreshing to me, but probably makes others sick.

 

[The Librarian]

Guys, I found this in the Gaming side.

"Hi, this is Congressman Jared Polis of Colorado. As a member of the League of Legends community (partial to Anivia and Maokai), and as someone who made his living as an Internet entrepreneur before being elected to Congress, I’m greatly concerned about the future of the Internet and gaming if Congress doesn't wake up. You may have heard that Congress is currently considering a bill called the Stop Online Piracy Act, or SOPA. While SOPA has a ton of problems, there are some significant issues that I thought fellow gamers might want to know about.

I’m particularly concerned that SOPA might stifle the kind of innovation that brings us games we love, such as LoL. The bill makes it far too easy for angry competitors to sue good law abiding companies out of existence. It threatens any company or website that depends on user-generated content, even companies like Riot. Instead of coming up with great ways to keep making games like LoL even better, companies will have to spend their money hiring lawyers. That's why companies like Riot, who want to protect the games they create, are opposed to SOPA.

I’ve been working on alternative legislation that would protect the games companies create while also fostering innovation. But we also need you to call your members of Congress and let them know of your opposition to SOPA. This bill has a very real chance of passing, and it is up to all of who want to protect the Internet to take action. More information is available at http://keepthewebopen.com/. Please make your voices heard in this debate! I will be happy to respond to your posts below, and will check back every few hours today and respond to as many as I can."

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=19572246#post19572246

This is really cool. As I said in the Gaming-side thread, I hate Congress for it being so dysfunctional, but I love it for its individual members. There are good people in government; he's one of them.

 

[Puddles]

He's just pandering to the base. It's a recurring theme. Both republicans and democrats like to play the class warfare card, and it works equally well for both side when talking to the base.

What is the Democrat equivalent to this?

And I'm having trouble thinking up instances of Obama playing a class warfare card.

 

[cooljeanius]

Oh gosh have you guys seen Manos's Romney thread... Please ignore it and come to my "Rep. Jared Polis plays League of Legends" thread on the Gaming-side instead!
Edit: I see Dax is already there, lol

 

[Suikoguy]

What is the Democrat equivalent to this?

And I'm having trouble thinking up instances of Obama playing a class warfare card.

Didn't you get the memo? Simply asking the rich to return to pre-bush tax levels = class warfare.

 

[dabig2]

People like Romney are the reason the guillotine was invented. So out of touch.

 

[empty vessel]

By system I meant the way we conceive of our budget and spending policies, not the actual system of fiat money. If we started acknowledging that we would pay our debts by issuing more currency, I don't see the dollar standing up to market pressures. Even if you argue that US bond prices tanking or the value of the dollar decreasing wouldn't matter, since we wouldn't be borrowing, it absolutely would affect sectors that depend on certain traditional assumptions about US monetary policy (not the least of which being retirement funds and international markets).

I think you still may have the misimpression that what I am describing is not what already happens (i.e., "If we started acknowledging that we would pay our debts..."). I am not suggesting any change to anything that we currently do. I am merely describing what we do now in mathematical equivalents that show that much of how we talk about certain policies related to government spending and taxation doesn't make sense. In a fiat monetary system, one can conceive every dollar spent by the government as the creation of money and every dollar taken in by the government (taxation and bond sales) as the destruction of money. Given that, we already pay our "debts" by "issuing more currency." Every single dollar the US government spends is created when it spends it. We just linguistically pretend otherwise.

My point is that describing what we are doing accurately puts the lie to many arguments about what is and is not feasible to do. People worrying about the fiscal solvency of government is like worrying about whether the scoreboard administrator at an NFL game might run out of points. Thus, describing the system accurately opens up a whole realm of policy options that are currently left unexplored because of our linguistic make-believe about the kind of monetary system we have.

 

[ReBurn]

What is the Democrat equivalent to this?

And I'm having trouble thinking up instances of Obama playing a class warfare card.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/obama-stick-class-warfare-approach-151109678.html

Whenever he tells people that the republican strategy is to make them poor and keep them poor and that the republicans don't care about them, they only care about rich people. To me it's just the other side of the same coin. Obama doesn't mind fomenting that discontent with his rhetoric. He's good at it, too. A lot of people would say that's simply truth, but it really depends on your perspective I think.

 

[Puddles]

Recently I had the idea to start creating short videos where I make irrefutable arguments regarding certain topics on which there is some inexplicable debate.

Right now I'm working on a comprehensive, irrefutable argument for universal healthcare, and damn if it isn't hard to condense it down. So many tangents keep popping up. Clearly there are no good arguments against UHC, but it's hard to make that case in two minutes or less.

 

[AlteredBeast]

As a Democrat in a largely conservative country I feel like it's like having battered wife syndrome. I'm already resigning myself to the odds that Romney will probably win if/when he gets the nom.

Sure, I'll vote for Obama, but I can't shake the feeling this election will simply be a replay of Reagan V. Carter without Ted Kennedy's drunk ass and no Iranian hostages.

My only solace will be that at least Romney isn't a batshit crazy Tea Party loon, or Rick “Theocracies are bad unless they are based on Christianity and I'll respect gay people by treating them like second class citizens” Santorum, or Rick “Bush version 2.0” Perry or Newt “the hypocrite” Gingritch.

I could live with Paul. I could even live with Huntsman.

But damn if the picture in the Romney OT sums up everything I hate about Romney with the passion of a thousand suns, but he's at least better than Bachman right? right?

Who am I kidding, I'm going to cry in the corner for the next 20 years until America's demographics finally change to the point where Republicans will have to evolve or die as a party.

What do you think is in that picture?

 

[Tamanon]

Wait...Newt actually called Spanish the language of the ghetto?

LOL

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

What do you think is in that picture?

I swear that picture is becoming an interesting blind test of people's stereotypes.

 

[Volimar]

Wait...Newt actually called Spanish the language of the ghetto?

LOL

Someone's watching the Daily Show....

Isn't the pic in the Romney OP just Romney proving he's not a shoe bomber?

 

[GhaleonEB]

CFPB and Richard Cordray at work

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...tdown/2012/01/12/gIQAWzHKuP_blog.html#excerpt

Alan Krueger (Chairman of the President’s Conuncil of Economic Advisers) speech:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ech/2011/08/25/gIQAlma9tP_blog.html#pagebreak

Very pleased to see Cordray hitting the ground running. Thanks for posting this.

 

[Volimar]

Very pleased to see Cordray hitting the ground running. Thanks for posting this.

Christ, in my most successful year I never even made the lowest possible income on that graph...


That's depressing.

 

[GillianSeed79]

Recently I had the idea to start creating short videos where I make irrefutable arguments regarding certain topics on which there is some inexplicable debate.

Right now I'm working on a comprehensive, irrefutable argument for universal healthcare, and damn if it isn't hard to condense it down. So many tangents keep popping up. Clearly there are no good arguments against UHC, but it's hard to make that case in two minutes or less.

Save yourself a lot of pain. We tried this four years ago and it felt like the second American Civil War was going to happen. I give UHC in the states a 30 percent chance of happening by 2062. Maybe by 2112 it will be 65 percent. The best you could achieve is banging your head against a blunt object for two minutes and then showing us a video of your hospital bills.

 

[cooljeanius]

Recently I had the idea to start creating short videos where I make irrefutable arguments regarding certain topics on which there is some inexplicable debate.

Right now I'm working on a comprehensive, irrefutable argument for universal healthcare, and damn if it isn't hard to condense it down. So many tangents keep popping up. Clearly there are no good arguments against UHC, but it's hard to make that case in two minutes or less.

Obviously any argument that takes more than 2 minutes to make must be false! [/averageamericanviewpoint]

 

[The Librarian]

Very pleased to see Cordray hitting the ground running. Thanks for posting this.

Republicans are going to regret opposing any appointment of the CFPB, especially Warren. A Senate seat is more worthwhile.

Save yourself a lot of pain. We tried this four years ago and it felt like the second American Civil War was going to happen. I give UHC in the states a 30 percent chance of happening by 2062. Maybe by 2112 it will be 65 percent. The best you could achieve is banging your head against a blunt object for two minutes and then showing us a video of your hospital bills.

Why thirty percent? Single-payer has already passed in Vermont, and all it takes is one state to get the ball rolling. Plus, PPACA, if it isn't repealed, will lead to more federal regulation of insurance and drug companies little by little.

 

[GillianSeed79]

What do you think is in that picture?

I posted this in the wrong thread. I meant to post it in the Romney OT. The picture I was talking about was the millionaire getting his shoes shined next to a corporate jet who has complained about being unemployed, that corporations are people too, who makes bets that are half of my annual income and who says he likes firing people.

 

[AlteredBeast]

I posted this in the wrong thread. I meant to post it in the Romney OT. The picture I was talking about was the millionaire getting his shoes shined next to a corporate jet who has complained about being unemployed, that corporations are people too, who makes bets that are half of my annual income and who says he likes firing people.

Interesting take...

 

[The Librarian]

TPM thinks that Krueger's speech on inequality is a sign that Obama plans to go all in about the topic in 2012.
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/...ls-obamas-2012-inequality-message.php?ref=fpa

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

"I like being able to fire people who provide services to me . . . you missed a spot Jose . . . "

I posted this in the wrong thread. I meant to post it in the Romney OT. The picture I was talking about was the millionaire getting his shoes shined next to a corporate jet who has complained about being unemployed, that corporations are people too, who makes bets that are half of my annual income and who says he likes firing people.

Opps.

 

[Byakuya769]

Just saw Newt's SC ad. My lord, that was incredible.

 

[watershed]

I posted this in the wrong thread. I meant to post it in the Romney OT. The picture I was talking about was the millionaire getting his shoes shined next to a corporate jet who has complained about being unemployed, that corporations are people too, who makes bets that are half of my annual income and who says he likes firing people.

I believe he's actually being scanned for exploding shoes.
Edit: beaten.

 

[Puddles]

Save yourself a lot of pain. We tried this four years ago and it felt like the second American Civil War was going to happen. I give UHC in the states a 30 percent chance of happening by 2062. Maybe by 2112 it will be 65 percent. The best you could achieve is banging your head against a blunt object for two minutes and then showing us a video of your hospital bills.

The more people who are out there making these arguments, the better.

What are the main arguments against UHC? Right now I've got the following:

- Rationing
- Freedom
- "Why should I pay for your healthcare?"

All easily refutable. I want to make sure I cover all the bases though. Any other anti-UHC arguments I should include?

 

[GillianSeed79]

Interesting take...

Okay, I admit that post may have been hyperbole. But shoe shining on a tarmac? Are you kidding me? (This is a troll photo though right? I keep thinking people are laughing because there is an Obama photo like this. Please tell me I'm wrong or shame me) Back on post. This is the guy I'm supposed to believe is in touch with the average American when there is eight percent plus unemployment? A dude that casually bets another candidate $10,000 like it's pizza money? Eh, I'm probably stereotyping the dude I admit. But come on. That picture just...okay I'm going to stop posting in this thread because I get awnry when I've had a few drinks in me and say stupid shit. I know I should go to bed when I start arguing about politics.

 

[Cyan]

Okay, I admit that post may have been hyperbole. But shoe shining on a tarmac? Are you kidding me? (This is a troll photo though right?)

It's a troll photo in that it looks like a shoe shining, but he's actually getting wanded by a security guy.

So yes, you done got trolled.

 

[Tawpgun]

Primary is getting boring.

Give the nom to Romney and have him debate Obama already.

 

[GillianSeed79]

WELL FUCK. I lost my right my post in this thread and have displayed my unfair bias against Romney. Please accept my full apologies Republicans and feel free to add me to your ignore list. I feel like an asshole.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

The more people who are out there making these arguments, the better.

What are the main arguments against UHC? Right now I've got the following:

- Rationing
- Freedom
- "Why should I pay for your healthcare?"

All easily refutable. I want to make sure I cover all the bases though. Any other anti-UHC arguments I should include?

No they're not, you just think they are. The fact you can claim they "irrefutable" shows the weakness of any potential argument you'll put forward. If you don't treat a subject as one they can be won by the other side (regardless of how you feel about the argument) you'll only put out a subpar defense of your position at best and worst come across as a twat with a bad argument, which only helps to alienate people.

Oh gosh have you guys seen Manos's Romney thread... Please ignore it and come to my "

How old are we?