empty vessel
Member
Don't worry, everything else you said about Romney was fair.
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US PoliGAF 2012 | The Romney VeepStakes: Waiting for Chris Christie to Sing
- Thread starter Invisible_Insane
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Don't worry, everything else you said about Romney was fair.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
Doesn't change the fact he was wrong, which to his credit he admitted, unlike you trying to make excuses.
empty vessel
Member
You must have mistaken me for somebody that was talking to you.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
I think you just did.
Slurpy2k20
Member
And this is acceptable? Saying the most egregious and dangerous shit gets a pass, because we all wink and acknowledge he's pandering?
Also, please don't start with false equivalencies. Dismissing anger by most of America in economic turmoil because they got fucked over as 'envy' has no comparison on the other side. It's a disgusting sentiment that shows how little he actually gives a fuck about the middle class and real economic problems.
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False equivalencies are getting old considering almost nothing is equal to the bullshit republicans pull day in and day out.
I donated $10 last month. Some friends and I are probably going to volunteer for his campaign again over the summer too.
I'm actually more amused at the "discuss it in quiet rooms" quip than the envy meme that gets repeated by even conservatives in this forum.
He's pretty much saying the disgruntled should stick to the shadows and not speak up. He basically states that even if there was a "problem" that involves over 300 million Americans, it's an issue best kept on the downlow where it will then likely be squashed by the ones in power. That to me represents the exact opposite of what this country was founded on.
Me too.
I will take this as good advice, considering you're an attorney. Thanks.
ProfessorLobo
Banned
Yes, then it'll become fascinating.
Yeah, I'm considering volunteering this time around too.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
Sure thing, that was the intention. You should always be able to argue the other side, even if only to learn potential weak points and ways to co-opt their message.
Relax man, anger take the best of all of us.
As long as you recognize it, everything is golden in my book.
p.s.
The one thing politicians and forum posters have in common - both tend to pretend like they're never wrong and never change their mind.
I think 90% of the problems on the internets are because people think they're obliged to defend every word the they ever typed.
Now granted, as someone who has never been wrong about anything, ever, I cannot fully relate, but I heard apologizing is hard.
He's merely stating that the discussion should happen in reasonable tones and not used as a rallying cry at campaign stops or other such fervent events.
I don't disagree with that. It is pretty disquieting to see someone compartmentalize a small segment of the population and then villainize them as 'the problem'. I get the same feeling when conservative people do it with illegals.
The biggest reasons I'll be volunteering is Supreme Court nominees and Iran. If Obama is able to appoint at least one more SC justice, the amount of terrible 5-4 decisions will probably reduce dramatically. Plus I'll feel a lot better about our chances of not invading Iran with Obama as president compared to any Republican. Also, while Obamacare may be underwhelming, it's still a tangible improvement on the system that has already benefited my family and my best friend's family greatly.
wonderkins
Member
oh noes! the serfs are grumbling about the gentry. whosoever will protect the fortunate??? will no valiant soul rise in defense of the able???
Yes, except for when they are the problem. Obviously not all of them, but you got to admit there is a number of people with a lot of wealth, and they knowingly use it to get their way and warp the democratic process. If they can't be villainized for their dirty pool, how do you propose to get people to take action and fix the system?
Not all millionaires are the problem, but Romney is definitely one of the millionaires that is, as are most of the millionaires in Washington.
A27_StarWolf
Banned
So... I think Steven Colbert might actually do shit.
adamsappel
Member
That picture of Mitt is infuriating to me because it shows how incompetent the TSA really is. There is no reason to put Mitt Romney through a security check. That is a complete waste of time. He's running for president, for Pete's sake! If he passes Secret Service security, they can let him on his own damn plane unimpeded.
Byakuya769
Member
In life, there can be villains. Most often people are just acting out in ways they feel society encourages them to do so, doesn't mean they should be above harsh and directed criticism. Otherwise, we're stuck in a relativist game where we try to root out the core cause of every problem instead of shaming the actors into behaving better.
So, you don't believe the US democratic system is rigged to favor the wealthy?
speculawyer
Member
The ToxicAdam spin-zone.
It sounds like he doesn't want such things publicly discussed. Why not? Perhaps the fact that we had better growth under previous tax rates will become well known? Oh heavens no!
Aaron Strife
Banned
The way he said it suggested he imagines a panel of kingmakers discussing how to deal with those irate peasants.
In fact the words he said suggest he imagines a panel of kingmakers discussing how to deal with those irate peasants.
He might be merely stating that, but why is this one topic the only one we should apparently do quietly? It's not like he approaches every topic like this. If he did, then I'd understand him saying that. He doesn't. He approaches most topics like they're rallying cries. The guy can't talk but a few seconds before he starts some rally cry about Obama's socialism and how we're losing our freedoms because of it. But when Obama or anyone else wants to say there's something wrong the other way that should be hush hush? It's silly, and it's hypocritical of him.
I think it's pretty apparent what he is saying. Whether you choose to use it for your own confirmation bias of what you think Romney is, is up to you. That's your right.
You're asking if I believe in 'The Man'? No, I don't.
I disagree. Wealth inequality has been an enormous problem in this country for the past 30 years an any rational talks that have been started to address it are combated as "class warfare".
We've spent an entire generation discussing it in private rooms. Hasn't worked. If the rich get to have their rallying cry of "fair taxes for all so cut ours!" while shaping American policy, then I think wealth inequality gets to have its fair time out in the sun.
Do you have a good explanation for why there are a disproportionate number of wealthy people in national politics?
empty vessel
Member
Economic power is as absent as climate change in TA's delusional world.
speculawyer
Member
"Quiet rooms" is not public debate. His words are quite clear. Why should it not be part of campaign speeches? It is public policy. And Romney doesn't want to talk about it. And with the facts as they are, I understand why he wouldn't want to talk about it . . . the policies he endorses have created massive deficits.
His show today was absolutely amazing, both segments.
Oh, and I want to murder that politco guy.
Wealth inequality is merely a byproduct of the ever increasing assault on the capital gains taxes over the same time period. Which needs to start trending the other way and Romney is definitely wrong about.
But to lay that effect as the cause of the shrinking middle class and increasing amount of poverty is to ignore the hundred other economic factors over the past 30 years that have more greatly contributed to it. Incredible gains in production, globalism, failure of our education systems, etc etc.
For most of the Clinton years, the inner cities were still being hollowed out (despite the tremendous opportunities that abound in the country and despite millions of dollars that Clinton poured into them). So, even if you had huge piles of money to throw at the problem, there was still this incredible wave of change around the globe that could not be abated.
One-hit wonder said:
The invisible bogeyman Co2 and wealth inequality are equally effective at keeping the troops in line, I agree.
Because they are better educated? Because they come from political families that have already made a lot of money? Because they have the luxury of taking 6-8 months off of work to go run? Because they are better connected? Because people inherently respect rich people more than they do a working guy?
empty vessel
Member
See, you do believe in conspiracies!
A better question would be why policy disproportionately serves wealthy people and the institutions they control.
empty vessel
Member
And influencing government.
Slurpy2k20
Member
I'm not sure what part of his statements any reasonable person can 'not agree at all' with. The 'some people who have alot of wealth use it to abuse the system and screw others' part? How the fuck can anyone vehemently disagree with a notion so blatantly obvious? So noone who has massive wealth abuses their power? He didn't say 'all' millionaires, nor 'most', nor 'half', he said 'some'. You take issue with this statement akin to 'the sky is blue', after all that has happened?
Oh never-mind, you're ToxicAdam, you don't have a shred of reason, and your posting history shows your wilful ignorance of all aspects of reality. You're fucking delusional, it's the only explanation I can think of.
And your defense of Romney's 'quiet rooms' and support of 'reasonable tones' is hilarious. Yeah, the republican candidates have definitely discussed issues in 'reasonable tones'. They're hysterical about absolutely everything, attempt to incite hatred and contrived outrage over bullshit, but suddenly when there's an issue people SHOULD be outraged about, they should pipe down and get a room, and keep it civil. This is beyond self-parody.
So, the system favors picking wealthy candidates. Now, do you think wealthy candidates are more in favor of having their friends' and family's interests served in Washington, or more in favor of having the poor's interests served?
A system that picks rich people for positions of power, where they then use that power to hold onto the power, and do favors for their rich friends and colleagues is a system that is rigged for the benefit of the wealthy. If this is not brought to the attention of the rest of the citizens, and not acted on, the people in power will slowly be able to erode at the democratic process and subtlety make it even more in their favor.
So I will ask again, if we aren't able to rally against the 1% to get positive change done, how do we go about it? Quiet behinds the scenes talks, rich people speaking with other rich people on how they should go about restructuring the tax code? That doesn't sound like democracy to me.
Slurpy2k20
Member
You're wasting your time. You can pick apart his posts word by word and disprove everything he says, he'll just erect other strawmen and start spinning like a top. I've seen him do it a thousands times.
jamesinclair
Banned
Oh right, that's why financial institution poured money in the fund back in 2008 and got away with their shit.
ReBurn
Gold Member
There is no false equivalency. Both parties use class-based fears to gain and retain power. Obama's hope and change message the last time around was based in the inequity and inequality, and he stirred people to anger. I'm not saying one is right and one is not. I'm saying that both parties use class envy to get what they want. At least Romney is honest about it.
And no, what he says doesn't get a pass, because you have the option to vote for the other guy. It's your choice to be offended by it but he has a right to say pretty much whatever he wants to.
A certainty that something is wrong with the way a society is functioning =/= envy.
If you cheat a few people out of money, and they call you out on it, they aren't calling you out because of envy.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
Oh right, that's why financial institution poured money in the fund back in 2008 and got away with their shit.
Very well put.
It's pretty much a fact modern democracies have turned into corporatocracies. It's not necessarily about being rich, but how connected to the system you are. If well connected to it then money comes your way.
The militaro-industrial complex is both preserving and killing americans, and I hardly see how the debate for the 2012 election offers any solution to your woes...
The militaro-industrial complex is both preserving and killing americans, and I hardly see how the debate for the 2012 election offers any solution to your woes...
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