Poimandres
Member
Nothing directly, but PC developments usually give you an insight into the kind of tech that might be used in next gen consoles.
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Wii/PS3/Kinect homebrewer rumor: Durango CPU clocked at 1.6ghz.
- Thread starter KojiKnight
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Nothing directly, but PC developments usually give you an insight into the kind of tech that might be used in next gen consoles.
DonMigs85
Member
And evil Microsoft profited off the research being done for Cell back then.
Poimandres
Member
I thought the 360 was smart precisely because it pretty much followed the PC-in-a-box approach. In a more cost effective way than the OG Xbox, but still, the familiarity of the architecture helped while the PS3's... exotic... architecture means it suffered with ports its whole life.
I'm certainly not an expert on these things, but that was my understanding.
HollovVpo1nt
Banned
Not sure how to take this news. I know that a 1.6Ghz Core2Duo outperforms a 3.2 Ghz Pentium D, but still..
The Cell PPE was designed specifically for the Cell processor but during development, Microsoft approached IBM wanting a high performance processor core for its Xbox 360. IBM complied and made the tri-core Xenon processor, based on a slightly modified version of the PPE.
Xenon is not like an off the shelve PC CPU.
The Cell PPE was designed specifically for the Cell processor but during development, Microsoft approached IBM wanting a high performance processor core for its Xbox 360. IBM complied and made the tri-core Xenon processor, based on a slightly modified version of the PPE.
Xenon is not like an off the shelve PC CPU.
Schlachtor
Banned
Doesn't change the fact that the WiiU CPU is really bad.
(btw. Durango -> how many cores, etc.)
So far rumors for both orbis and Durango sound like a good improvement over the current Gen offerings. I really wouldn't worry about this rumor.
Also MS originally wanted a 3.5Ghz OoO CPU but got a modified Cell PPU instead.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
And Xenos was more exotic than RSX, with its eDRAM and then novel unified shader architecture. The difference in the ease of development was partially down to the Cell's unusual architecture, yes, but also the difference in development tools (especially in the early days when Sony's tools were somewhat lacking), RSX's relatively weak performance (so things usually done on a GPU had to be manually implemented on a CPU), and the amount and organization of memory.
SpinningBirdKick
Banned
To save AAA development we have to go back to the future.
Next gen will be PS2/GameCube/DreamCast levels of performance.
Next next gen will be PS1/Saturn/N64 tech.
The solution is so obvious now...
/jk
Next gen will be PS2/GameCube/DreamCast levels of performance.
Next next gen will be PS1/Saturn/N64 tech.
The solution is so obvious now...
/jk
Latest dev units seem to have 4 cores each with 4 logical cores:
http://www.vg247.com/2012/11/17/next-gen-xbox-details-contained-in-last-issue-of-xbox-world-rumor/
A logical core would be similar to a hardware thread.
Since when?
Xbox 360 has an IBM power PC CPU and customised GPU. PS3 has an entirely custom CELL CPU. Xbox 1 was perhaps the only time that a console was fairly close to a standard PC. Before that they were all highly custom silicon.
Next gen, PC GPUs might provide some indication of what we'll see, but even their they go with highly customised APUs or MCMs with lots of edram, that's different enough from a PC to make direct comparisons not very useful
DonMigs85
Member
It's still a sucky CPU that's probably no better than Xenon, let's just leave it at that.
If its a new architechture its fine. Compare Core 2 Duo to i7 or Athlon X2 to the FX series.... GHZ have stayed around 2-3 in the PC CPU space for a long time, 4GHZ that AMD has on their high end stuff is really the max due to heat
LOL @ first post, jesus
WHY THEY MAEK IT SLOWE
(((((((((((((((
LOL @ first post, jesus
WHY THEY MAEK IT SLOWE
(((((((((((((((Its not even as simple as that it depends what you can do in each clock cycle (im talkign more about the next xbox here as we already know the wiiu cpu is based on the wii one)
There is no war wiiu is completing with the xbox360/ps3
When ps4/xbox720 coe out they will be in the next gen
Guerrillas in the Mist
Member
People judging CPU power from the clock speed alone? Am I back in the 90s?
Backfoggen
Banned
All these rumors are just too weird with the consoles not even announced yet.
Is this your first gen of gaming? Its how the transition works lol
I was about to wade into this thread until I realised two things...,
A) I've been playing the PS3's Orange Box version of Half Life 2 (with the episodes) which, at times, has looked seriously ropey but it's aesthetic has never impacted game play.
B) I am not technically minded at all and such information ultimately means nothing to me.
Maybe these things have nothing to do with this thread.
Maybe they have everything.
A) I've been playing the PS3's Orange Box version of Half Life 2 (with the episodes) which, at times, has looked seriously ropey but it's aesthetic has never impacted game play.
B) I am not technically minded at all and such information ultimately means nothing to me.
Maybe these things have nothing to do with this thread.
Maybe they have everything.
ok
that's exactly what was said in the previous war though. As I said, it has just begun! ^_^
Apparently we are. On several occasions I have upgraded my pc with a lower clocked CPU. People commenting that "that means it's worse" are just very silly indeed. Or aren't bothering to read up on the subject past the last 7 years of console specifications.
On the same point, this is exactly why the WiiU CPU isn't "bad" because it's slow. Clock speed isn't everything, its importance can be offset by other advances in CPU technology.
My current PC CPU is 3.2 GHz i5 (Sandybridge). Do these people think their 360 CPU is the same or even 'better'?
If we're comparing WiiU (not sure if you are) then it's worth noting that WiiU has a DSP for the Audio (so the CPU isn't handling that) and a separate ARM processor which may be handling the OS (unconfirmed, but if so the the CPU isnt lumbered with that either)
So its not necessarily "8 @ 1.6ghz vs 3 @ 1.2ghz".
DonMigs85
Member
Surely they're not still using the same Macronix DSP since the GameCube? Or maybe it's an enhanced version?
It's been a while since computers were down at 1Ghz though. Modern CPUs are efficient architecture AND 3+ GHz
DonMigs85
Member
Yeah, plus the PPC 750 is an old design that has its roots in 1998.
I don't know if they added any new instruction sets, though.
iamshadowlark
Banned
IPS would be a good composite measurement to rate the consoles CPUs and I fairly certain that the wii u CPU barely matches up to the PS3/360 CPUs. I think it's time for people to accept that Nintendo made a GPU focused console with the CPU being mediocre. It's the same thing we were told prior to launch, all these pages of debate about nothing really isn't gonna change that.
I've no idea. I've seen nothing to imply its anything to do with GC. Why would it be?
Every CPU "has its roots" on older tech. That's how it works. It means very little to say that when trying to decipher its capabilities.
FWIW, Broadway could not be clocked above 1ghz, and IBM confirmed it was a new CPU. I really doubt there's nothing new in there compared to Broadway. It might be from the same lineage, but that's meaningless.
ITT, people think clock speeds have always been increasing. Here's a fun image:
A small collection of low-end (by today's standard) CPU benchmarks.
Look how the 1.30GHz Intel Celeron 743 performs comparably to the 3.60GHz Pentium 4. Both CPUs were released exactly one year apart.
Another fun fact: the Intel Core was derived from the Pentium 3 line, ditching the Pentium 4 architecture. Deriving from an older architecture isn't necessarily a bad thing.
A small collection of low-end (by today's standard) CPU benchmarks.
Look how the 1.30GHz Intel Celeron 743 performs comparably to the 3.60GHz Pentium 4. Both CPUs were released exactly one year apart.
Another fun fact: the Intel Core was derived from the Pentium 3 line, ditching the Pentium 4 architecture. Deriving from an older architecture isn't necessarily a bad thing.
It's no powerhouse that's for sure. The problem is, most of the people saying "it's weak" were saying so because the clock speed is relatively slow. Now we hear that the 720 cpu might have a clock speed in the same ballpark. Tada!
If it's "weak" compared to 720/ps4, then it won't be because of clock speed. Hopefully people will realise that now.
ITT, people think clock speeds have always been increasing. Here's a fun image:
A small collection of low-end (by today's standard) CPU benchmarks.
Look how the 1.30GHz Intel Celeron 743 performs comparably to the 3.60GHz Pentium 4. Both CPUs were released exactly one year apart.
Another fun fact: the Intel Core was derived from the Pentium 3 line, ditching the Pentium 4 architecture. Deriving from an older architecture isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Yep. Was trying to say that before - thanks for the example
The only right answer.
Should be more like six against three, or eight against five. OS background processes on Wii U seem to run on the ARM coprocessor, not the main CPU.
Are we sure? Marcan seemed to suggest it was used for security/drm.
Anyway, I don't expect anyone's CPUs to be remarkable next-gen, but I think it's unlikely the other systems' cpus will be as unremarkable as Wii U's, with a low clock or not. Mhz isn't everything but Wii U's CPU doesn't have a lot else going for it either. I expect Durango's processor will have more in the mix to compensate if it is indeed clocked like this, and will give a general good boost in performance over Xenon.
dragonelite
Member
Dont care i want to know more about next gen memory type that will make or break it.
If they and amd are betting on HSA to succeed we need some high bandwidth memory.
If we know the access speeds and memory bandwidth you can see what global performance will be.
But im not the person to trust in this completely. But i have seen a good image explaining memory and cpu/gpu development and the bandwidth vs processing power gap is huge..
Cpu and Gpu processing power grows exponential while memory bandwidth looked like it grow linear.
If they and amd are betting on HSA to succeed we need some high bandwidth memory.
If we know the access speeds and memory bandwidth you can see what global performance will be.
But im not the person to trust in this completely. But i have seen a good image explaining memory and cpu/gpu development and the bandwidth vs processing power gap is huge..
Cpu and Gpu processing power grows exponential while memory bandwidth looked like it grow linear.
Clock speed means nothing when there's no info about the number of cores and the architecture.
I'm not talking about the capabilities of either the Wii U or Durango when I said that. I'm talking about the heat issues that arise from packing lots of cores together, and clocking them high.
So really the whole thread is a bit pointless then?
Of course it won't. They're hardly going to design a console which is unbalanced like that. And neither is Nintendo for that matter.
Yes.
It just got a whole bunch of folk who know dick all about processors all bent out of shape while those of us that know even the smallest amount bang our heads on the desk.
Apple actually explained pretty well why Ghz doesn't matter that much. It's just a part of the performance of the CPU.
Please note, with a 1Ghz and a 2Ghz CPU that are both otherwise identical the 2Ghz CPU would run twice as fast. AFAIK Intel believed that CPUs would get a higher and higher clockrate when they made the Pentium 4. That didn't happen and the later Pentium 4s were really hot and didn't perform better than cheaper CPUs from AMD (with a lower clockrate).
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