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[krazen]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/cleared-murder-fatally-shooting-unarmed-man-article-1.3685074

Dead dude was showing off air rifles he used at his pest control job in a hotel room(pre-vegas), someone saw it from a window and called the police.

The full youtube was released and its textbook example of cops acting cool under pressure against a drunk crying dude.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M62Va6Ft2cw

 

[ModBot]

Let's try again. The topic in question is valid and not the reason that the original thread was locked, the reason it was locked was because of the aggressiveness of some of the responses and making personal comments. We are speaking to some of the individuals. The thread won't get a second reboot, lets do what we can to keep it on topic or it will be locked permanently.

 

[Sosokrates]

I just refreshed my lenglthy post I want to cry.

So the short version

*Cop was not fit for the job
*Had bad attitude
*Poorly trained
*The suspect could of been detained with no harm to either parties in so many ways.


---------
Edit: Ok im watching a video about this now, and the person giving the commands is not the cop who shot Danial which does change things a bit.
After now knowing this I think it still could of been dealt with better, however I think it was the commanding officer at fault not the officer that shot the Danial.

This is the video I was watching and I pretty much agree with him

https://youtu.be/qOemQG8M7g4

 

[gohepcat]

I just refreshed my lenglthy post I want to cry.

So the short version

*Cop was not fit for the job
*Had bad attitude
*Poorly trained
*The suspect could of been detained with no harm to either parties in so many ways.


---------
Edit: Ok im watching a video about this now, and the person giving the commands is not the cop who shot the perp which does change things a bit.
After now knowing this I think it still could of been dealt with better, however I think it was the commanding officer at fault not the officer that shot the perp.

This is the video I was watching and I pretty much agree with him

https://youtu.be/qOemQG8M7g4

Perp.

You mean the unarmed sobbing man begging for his life on the ground?

Let’s use Daniel, because that’s his name.

 

[Sosokrates]

Perp.

You mean the unarmed sobbing man begging for his life on the ground?

Let’s use Daniel, because that’s his name.

Yes perpetrator.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/perpetrator

I did not mean any disrespect,I just used the word because it is factually accurate.
However I will change it as a sign of respect.

 

[BANGS]

It's a sad tragedy. Such a shame...

 

[CampbellzSoup]

Cop fucked up.

Kate Stelines killer was cleared off his charges too I’m so done with American justice system

 

[Senua]

Cop fucked up.

Kate Stelines killer was cleared off his charges too I’m so done with American justice system

Who?

 

[Ubername]

Who?

An immigrant shot a girl via richochet when he fired accidentally at a slab of concrete in Pier 14, Embarcadero SF

 

[PataHikari]

It's a sad tragedy. Such a shame...

Yeah it is a shame that this murderous psychopath got away with murder because he has a badge.

 

[HoodWinked]

Ok im watching a video about this now, and the person giving the commands is not the cop who shot Danial which does change things a bit.
After now knowing this I think it still could of been dealt with better, however I think it was the commanding officer at fault not the officer that shot the Danial.

ya its really crazy how small details can drastically change the circumstances and yet very few are aware of that and ya there should be a large component of blame at the officer that was shouting and not de-escalating the situation and yet he isn't even mentioned.

 

[OrionFalls]

This was not a tragedy. Calling it a tragedy implies it was an accident, a horrible mistake of sorts. There was no accident or mistake made. It was a cold, calculated murder.

 

[CampbellzSoup]

An immigrant shot a girl via richochet when he fired accidentally at a slab of concrete in Pier 14, Embarcadero SF

You’re leaving out that he was an illegal immigrant Who was deported no less than five timeshe gun was illegally possessed and was from a federal agents car he shouldn’t have been here and that shouldn’t have happened.

I’m not one to bounce on the cops like a lot of liberals do however at this cop really fucked up and justice was not served.

However it justice is not always defined with the outcome that we wanted to I do have faith in the American courts system however between the Kate trial and this I can understand how people feel negatively about the justice system.

 

[Noboru Wataya]

I don't agree that it was murder. There was no premeditation. When you have to police a country where every suspect has the potential to carry a loaded firearm, the police need to be on their guard every step of the way or they could possibly die. I'm not qualified to know if this was handled the right way, but regardless this is a very very sad outcome and I hope their families do find peace.

 

[BANGS]

Yeah it is a shame that this murderous psychopath got away with murder because he has a badge.

trying too hard...

 

[PataHikari]

trying too hard...

Trying too hard to what?

To actually have a sense of morality and care about other human beings? To not be a bootlicking sociopath?

 

[OrionFalls]

Trying too hard to what?

To actually have a sense of morality and care about other human beings? To not be a bootlicking sociopath?

I’m willing to bet either BANGS or one of his family is a cop.

 

[Strider311]

Knowing how toxic this community usually is, I'm sure I'll regret posting this but here we go.

Having been in many situations like this before, both from the military side and on the law enforcement side, I can tell you firsthand that the stress and adrenaline levels are about as high as they can possibly be. Being able to remain calm and collected while being ready to react at a moment's notice is very hard and is learned through a lot of training and experience.

That being said: As an admittedly hot take, I do not think this officer had the right mindset, training or demeanor to be in law enforcement. There are also far better ways to go about controlling a given subject and situation. Getting the subject's hands in the air, having him slowly lift his shirt and turn in a complete circle (to ensure there was not a firearm in the waistline), and then walk slowly backward toward the officers, with his hands in the air and elbows locked out, where he could be cuffed and searched, would have been a far more effective tactic.

I can tell you that at the federal level, while we are trained to treat every encounter as potentially fatal, it is also standard practice to deescalate as best we can.

To all the cop haters painting all law enforcement as power-hungry murderers, all I can say is that you are very, very wrong. The men and women that I work with could not be more professional, courteous and diverse. We are made up of every race, religion, gender, sexual preference and background. All are highly educated, and all take the responsibility of the power we are given seriously.

There are no redneck racist militia wannabes, and there isn't a place for them. Nobody is just "itching for a kill", and when we have to make an arrest, it is planned in the way that is most likely to avoid a violent confrontation.

Unfortunately for street cops, they often don't get the benefit of planning everything out well ahead of time. They have to make a lot of snap judgements and tough calls in bad circumstances. In a lot of cases they don't always get the same high level of training.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is, I think the officer fucked up but stress was high and he shouldn't have been there in the first place. Punishment probably should have been more severe. There are shitheads in every organization or group of people, but they need to be weeded out. You cannot paint everyone with sweeping generalizations.

 

[luxsol]

Knowing how toxic this community usually is, I'm sure I'll regret posting this but here we go.

Having been in many situations like this before, both from the military side and on the law enforcement side, I can tell you firsthand that the stress and adrenaline levels are about as high as they can possibly be. Being able to remain calm and collected while being ready to react at a moment's notice is very hard and is learned through a lot of training and experience.

That being said: As an admittedly hot take, I do not think this officer had the right mindset, training or demeanor to be in law enforcement. There are also far better ways to go about controlling a given subject and situation. Getting the subject's hands in the air, having him slowly lift his shirt and turn in a complete circle (to ensure there was not a firearm in the waistline), and then walk slowly backward toward the officers, with his hands in the air and elbows locked out, where he could be cuffed and searched, would have been a far more effective tactic.

I can tell you that at the federal level, while we are trained to treat every encounter as potentially fatal, it is also standard practice to deescalate as best we can.

To all the cop haters painting all law enforcement as power-hungry murderers, all I can say is that you are very, very wrong. The men and women that I work with could not be more professional, courteous and diverse. We are made up of every race, religion, gender, sexual preference and background. All are highly educated, and all take the responsibility of the power we are given seriously.

There are no redneck racist militia wannabes, and there isn't a place for them. Nobody is just "itching for a kill", and when we have to make an arrest, it is planned in the way that is most likely to avoid a violent confrontation.

Unfortunately for street cops, they often don't get the benefit of planning everything out well ahead of time. They have to make a lot of snap judgements and tough calls in bad circumstances. In a lot of cases they don't always get the same high level of training.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is, I think the officer fucked up but stress was high and he shouldn't have been there in the first place. Punishment probably should have been more severe. There are shitheads in every organization or group of people, but they need to be weeded out. You cannot paint everyone with sweeping generalizations.

Always great to hear from an informed perspective.

Thanks.

 

[Dunki]

Knowing how toxic this community usually is, I'm sure I'll regret posting this but here we go.

Having been in many situations like this before, both from the military side and on the law enforcement side, I can tell you firsthand that the stress and adrenaline levels are about as high as they can possibly be. Being able to remain calm and collected while being ready to react at a moment's notice is very hard and is learned through a lot of training and experience.

That being said: As an admittedly hot take, I do not think this officer had the right mindset, training or demeanor to be in law enforcement. There are also far better ways to go about controlling a given subject and situation. Getting the subject's hands in the air, having him slowly lift his shirt and turn in a complete circle (to ensure there was not a firearm in the waistline), and then walk slowly backward toward the officers, with his hands in the air and elbows locked out, where he could be cuffed and searched, would have been a far more effective tactic.

I can tell you that at the federal level, while we are trained to treat every encounter as potentially fatal, it is also standard practice to deescalate as best we can.

To all the cop haters painting all law enforcement as power-hungry murderers, all I can say is that you are very, very wrong. The men and women that I work with could not be more professional, courteous and diverse. We are made up of every race, religion, gender, sexual preference and background. All are highly educated, and all take the responsibility of the power we are given seriously.

There are no redneck racist militia wannabes, and there isn't a place for them. Nobody is just "itching for a kill", and when we have to make an arrest, it is planned in the way that is most likely to avoid a violent confrontation.

Unfortunately for street cops, they often don't get the benefit of planning everything out well ahead of time. They have to make a lot of snap judgements and tough calls in bad circumstances. In a lot of cases they don't always get the same high level of training.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is, I think the officer fucked up but stress was high and he shouldn't have been there in the first place. Punishment probably should have been more severe. There are shitheads in every organization or group of people, but they need to be weeded out. You cannot paint everyone with sweeping generalizations.

Great post very informative too. Thank you.

 

[Sarkozix le Gaulois]

Knowing how toxic this community usually is, I'm sure I'll regret posting this but here we go

Do not regret posting it, it was very interesting. Thanks.

There are shitheads in every organization or group people, but they need to be weeded out. You cannot paint everyone with sweeping generalizations.

Any reasonable, intelligent person know this.

 

[BANGS]

Trying too hard to what?

To actually have a sense of morality and care about other human beings? To not be a bootlicking sociopath?

Trying to hard to troll. How does foaming at the mouth spitting venom show any morality or care for anyone? Your bait is pathetic...

I’m willing to bet either BANGS or one of his family is a cop.

Yes, my brother is NYPD. I'm willing to bet you don't have a close relationship with any form of police. Hence the disconnect from reality your ilk flamboyantly displays in the most predictable fashion. If you didn't act like every police officer was a supervillain, people might take your feelings a bit more seriously...

Knowing how toxic this community usually is, I'm sure I'll regret posting this but here we go.

Having been in many situations like this before, both from the military side and on the law enforcement side, I can tell you firsthand that the stress and adrenaline levels are about as high as they can possibly be. Being able to remain calm and collected while being ready to react at a moment's notice is very hard and is learned through a lot of training and experience.

That being said: As an admittedly hot take, I do not think this officer had the right mindset, training or demeanor to be in law enforcement. There are also far better ways to go about controlling a given subject and situation. Getting the subject's hands in the air, having him slowly lift his shirt and turn in a complete circle (to ensure there was not a firearm in the waistline), and then walk slowly backward toward the officers, with his hands in the air and elbows locked out, where he could be cuffed and searched, would have been a far more effective tactic.

I can tell you that at the federal level, while we are trained to treat every encounter as potentially fatal, it is also standard practice to deescalate as best we can.

To all the cop haters painting all law enforcement as power-hungry murderers, all I can say is that you are very, very wrong. The men and women that I work with could not be more professional, courteous and diverse. We are made up of every race, religion, gender, sexual preference and background. All are highly educated, and all take the responsibility of the power we are given seriously.

There are no redneck racist militia wannabes, and there isn't a place for them. Nobody is just "itching for a kill", and when we have to make an arrest, it is planned in the way that is most likely to avoid a violent confrontation.

Unfortunately for street cops, they often don't get the benefit of planning everything out well ahead of time. They have to make a lot of snap judgements and tough calls in bad circumstances. In a lot of cases they don't always get the same high level of training.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is, I think the officer fucked up but stress was high and he shouldn't have been there in the first place. Punishment probably should have been more severe. There are shitheads in every organization or group of people, but they need to be weeded out. You cannot paint everyone with sweeping generalizations.

Well said, Sir...

 

[Marvel]

.

Great post.

 

[PataHikari]

Having been in many situations like this before, both from the military side and on the law enforcement side, I can tell you firsthand that the stress and adrenaline levels are about as high as they can possibly be. Being able to remain calm and collected while being ready to react at a moment's notice is very hard and is learned through a lot of training and experience.

Sure is funny though how this is used to excuse killers with a badge while their victims are blamed for not acting perfectly.

Trying to hard to troll. How does foaming at the mouth spitting venom show any morality or care for anyone? Your bait is pathetic...

Oh look, you're using Nazi rhetoric again.

Yes, my brother is NYPD. I'm willing to bet you don't have a close relationship with any form of police. Hence the disconnect from reality your ilk flamboyantly displays in the most predictable fashion. If you didn't act like every police officer was a supervillain, people might take your feelings a bit more seriously....

Oh what a surprise. Turns out your brother is one of the cops! Wonder how many minorities he's harassed/beaten/killed. Or at the very minimum gladly covered for scum.

Especially hilarious since the NYPD is one of the biggest tantrum throwers in all of policedom (Which, considering how big a bunch of oversensitive babies cops generally are is really saying something) with such amusing situations like turning their back on the mayor they work for for asking them to be less racist and halting police work for a bit only to have to start back up again once it turned out them not patrolling the streets didn't actually make things worse and arguably made things better.

 

[BANGS]

You'd think these joke accounts would come up with more clever usernames...

 

[Barsinister]

Knowing how toxic this community usually is, I'm sure I'll regret posting this but here we go.

Having been in many situations like this before, both from the military side and on the law enforcement side, I can tell you firsthand that the stress and adrenaline levels are about as high as they can possibly be. Being able to remain calm and collected while being ready to react at a moment's notice is very hard and is learned through a lot of training and experience.

That being said: As an admittedly hot take, I do not think this officer had the right mindset, training or demeanor to be in law enforcement. There are also far better ways to go about controlling a given subject and situation. Getting the subject's hands in the air, having him slowly lift his shirt and turn in a complete circle (to ensure there was not a firearm in the waistline), and then walk slowly backward toward the officers, with his hands in the air and elbows locked out, where he could be cuffed and searched, would have been a far more effective tactic.

I can tell you that at the federal level, while we are trained to treat every encounter as potentially fatal, it is also standard practice to deescalate as best we can.

To all the cop haters painting all law enforcement as power-hungry murderers, all I can say is that you are very, very wrong. The men and women that I work with could not be more professional, courteous and diverse. We are made up of every race, religion, gender, sexual preference and background. All are highly educated, and all take the responsibility of the power we are given seriously.

There are no redneck racist militia wannabes, and there isn't a place for them. Nobody is just "itching for a kill", and when we have to make an arrest, it is planned in the way that is most likely to avoid a violent confrontation.

Unfortunately for street cops, they often don't get the benefit of planning everything out well ahead of time. They have to make a lot of snap judgements and tough calls in bad circumstances. In a lot of cases they don't always get the same high level of training.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is, I think the officer fucked up but stress was high and he shouldn't have been there in the first place. Punishment probably should have been more severe. There are shitheads in every organization or group of people, but they need to be weeded out. You cannot paint everyone with sweeping generalizations.

I just have one issue with your thoughtful post. You write that no one is "itching for a kill", but if it is true that the rifle had "you're fucked" etched on it, how does one resolve those two opposing ideas?

I just hope that it isn't true what was written on the gun.

 

[BANGS]

I just have one issue with your thoughtful post. You write that no one is "itching for a kill", but if it is true that the rifle had "you're fucked" etched on it, how does one resolve those two opposing ideas?

They aren't opposing. Feeling like a badass cop does not mean you want to kill people. That message on his gun is meant for actual bad guys, not unfortunate situations like this...

You ever wear a "no fear" shirt or anything like that? It's not exactly gospel...

 

[Strider311]

I just have one issue with your thoughtful post. You write that no one is "itching for a kill", but if it is true that the rifle had "you're fucked" etched on it, how does one resolve those two opposing ideas?

I just hope that it isn't true what was written on the gun.

There isn't any resolving it, that is why I stated that the guy did not have the mindset/maturity and demeanor for the job. He is likely one of the shitbags I mentioned that needed to be weeded out before he ever got near this sort of situation.

Also, this sort of thing would never be allowed where I work. That kind of attitude wouldn't have even made it past the the first phase of the application process.

While it was likely just him trying to be a tough guy, it comes across as unprofessional. And people in my line of work need to be professional.

 

[Barsinister]

I'm heading out for work in a few minutes, but I'll expand on my thoughts first.

I was dining with my son-in-law, who is a cop, on one occasion. He was being promoted to Sargent. The dinner was an after ceremony party. There were many policemen there. Two on duty officers showed up to have dinner. They were joking about the homeless man they had arrested waiting in the back of their squad car while they were eating. Nobody seemed to care, in fact, everyone was laughing.

Maybe writing "you're fucked" on your gun is a form of gallows humor. Maybe laughing and keeping people you have complete control over waiting is just a way to let off steam.

Or, maybe cops should realize that they have a service industry job. It's a dangerous service industry job, true. Cops have no right to feel like a "badass". Serving the community is noble, not "badass".

Edit: Do you think that any other cops knew he had that on his gun? If he's a shitbag, was that a sign? It really troubles me that he had that on his gun. I sincerely doubt he was the only one.

 

[Dunki]

Especially hilarious since the NYPD is one of the biggest tantrum throwers in all of policedom (Which, considering how big a bunch of oversensitive babies cops generally are is really saying something) with such amusing situations like turning their back on the mayor they work for for asking them to be less racist and halting police work for a bit only to have to start back up again once it turned out them not patrolling the streets didn't actually make things worse and arguably made things better.

They did this because of the generalization ot the police force. And I am sorry but for many this is their LIFE this is how they identify that is how they grew up prob even over generations of family members being a cop.

You just do not go out there and stigmatize everyone becauese of some assholes.

 

[Strider311]

I'm heading out for work in a few minutes, but I'll expand on my thoughts first.

I was dining with my son-in-law, who is a cop, on one occasion. He was being promoted to Sargent. The dinner was an after ceremony party. There were many policemen there. Two on duty officers showed up to have dinner. They were joking about the homeless man they had arrested waiting in the back of their squad car while they were eating. Nobody seemed to care, in fact, everyone was laughing.

Maybe writing "you're fucked" on your gun is a form of gallows humor. Maybe laughing and keeping people you have complete control over waiting is just a way to let off steam.

Or, maybe cops should realize that they have a service industry job. It's a dangerous service industry job, true. Cops have no right to feel like a "badass". Serving the community is noble, not "badass".

Edit: Do you think that any other cops knew he had that on his gun? If he's a shitbag, was that a sign? It really troubles me that he had that on his gun. I sincerely doubt he was the only one.

I do think it should have been a sign, and honestly it could be an indicator of something wrong there. It also very well could have been gallows humor. Regarding the homeless guy in the car, that is unacceptable and again, would get you instantly fired where I work.

Unfortunately I cannot speak for the vetting process and standards each state and local law enforcement agencies have. Again, I can only speak to the Federal level here. And I can say definitively this guy would not have made the cut.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Cops joking/bragging about killing people, or anything that comes off as repulsive to citizens is normalized. It is their locker room talk. "You're fucked" is macho bullshit from a dangerous asshole, but there's many who talk shit like him but won't act like him. Cops aren't noble, they are people like anyone at your job. The training doesn't uniformly reinforce virtue, rather individuals have it or they don't.

The problem is that cops have a big responsibility, and peoples lives are affected. To joke about someones life is heinous.

The jokes, coping mechanisms, macho shit, and whatever won't stop, but it should be disciplined when it becomes a public issue.

 

[Lionel Richie]

Knowing how toxic this community usually is, I'm sure I'll regret posting this but here we go.

Having been in many situations like this before, both from the military side and on the law enforcement side, I can tell you firsthand that the stress and adrenaline levels are about as high as they can possibly be. Being able to remain calm and collected while being ready to react at a moment's notice is very hard and is learned through a lot of training and experience.

That being said: As an admittedly hot take, I do not think this officer had the right mindset, training or demeanor to be in law enforcement. There are also far better ways to go about controlling a given subject and situation. Getting the subject's hands in the air, having him slowly lift his shirt and turn in a complete circle (to ensure there was not a firearm in the waistline), and then walk slowly backward toward the officers, with his hands in the air and elbows locked out, where he could be cuffed and searched, would have been a far more effective tactic.

I can tell you that at the federal level, while we are trained to treat every encounter as potentially fatal, it is also standard practice to deescalate as best we can.

To all the cop haters painting all law enforcement as power-hungry murderers, all I can say is that you are very, very wrong. The men and women that I work with could not be more professional, courteous and diverse. We are made up of every race, religion, gender, sexual preference and background. All are highly educated, and all take the responsibility of the power we are given seriously.

There are no redneck racist militia wannabes, and there isn't a place for them. Nobody is just "itching for a kill", and when we have to make an arrest, it is planned in the way that is most likely to avoid a violent confrontation.

Unfortunately for street cops, they often don't get the benefit of planning everything out well ahead of time. They have to make a lot of snap judgements and tough calls in bad circumstances. In a lot of cases they don't always get the same high level of training.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is, I think the officer fucked up but stress was high and he shouldn't have been there in the first place. Punishment probably should have been more severe. There are shitheads in every organization or group of people, but they need to be weeded out. You cannot paint everyone with sweeping generalizations.

Fantastic post man, thanks for sharing and I agree with everything you said.

 

[Ubername]

Oh look, you're using Nazi rhetoric again.



Oh what a surprise. Turns out your brother is one of the cops! Wonder how many minorities he's harassed/beaten/killed. Or at the very minimum gladly covered for scum.

Lol. Great post!