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[Chronoja]

Crimson Dragon is not "inspired by" Panzer Dragoon. It is a new dragon riding rail shooter set in a scifi/fantasy planet with a story involving dragons being bio-engineered as transport and weapons, and it is made by the creator, designer, director, and composer of Panzer Dragoon.

It is the same people who wrote, designed, and created everything that made Panzer Dragoon what it is. The world concept, the story, the music, the gameplay, the art, etc. Pretty much every single person who created Panzer Dragoon originally is making this game. It also looks like Panzer Dragoon, has a similar setting to Panzer Dragoon, and most importantly plays like Panzer Dragoon.

It is not a "Kinect tech demo" either. It is a full fledged XBLA game with 7 worlds, each with a number of stages within it. 6 playable dragon types. Over 100 different skills that the dragons can learn. It has online leaderboards, and co-op multiplayer with up to 3 players over Xbox Live. There are cutscenes, bosses, voice acting, etc.

No, this is not a Panzer Dragoon sequel. But in every meaningful way it is the spiritual successor to Panzer Dragoon because the original copyright lies with Sega, and Sega is no longer interested in funding a new Panzer Dragoon game. Microsoft is. Go figure.


Here's who's making the game:

Director: Yukio Futatsugi (Director of Panzer Dragoon and Panzer Dragoon Saga, creator of Panzer Dragoon)
Concept Artist: Manabu Kusunoki (Lead artist and character/dragon designer for the Panzer Dragoon series)
Lead Designer: Tomohiro Kondo (Producer of Panzer Dragoon, Director of Panzer Dragoon Zwei)
Sound: Saori Kobayashi (Composer of the Panzer Dragoon series)

Developers: Grounding (Yukio Futatsugi's studio with ex-Sega and MS employees) and Land Ho (Tomohiro Kondo leads the consumer development studio here with ex-Sega staff, they also worked on the Sega Ages release for Panzer Dragoon)

This is not a copy-cat, it is the people who created Panzer Dragoon simply creating it again because they got another chance.

I don't intend to argue my case much longer anyways, you guys clearly have a lot of valid ammunition and I have an "against the grain" stance.

But thats mostly my point though. This game is "creating it again" and a spiritual successor. It can be similiar in nearly every aspect but still *not* be a true PD game.

Maybe its just aesthetics. I can't stand the look of those ugly dragons. Maybe its the lack of that ivory and black design that is synonymous with PD. Maybe its the complete discarding of established story built on 4 previous games in favour of a new and stand alone universe. The devil is in the details, and the details in this game just aren't PD. I just don't feel right in calling this a PD game even with all the similiarities and the team behind it.

A bad example I guess...It's like...Bomberman Act Zero. For all intents and purposes, it plays like a bomberman game. Made by Hudson Soft. But you wouldn't call it a true bomberman game. A reimagining maybe? but not truly a game of the series.

Anyways, this is an uphill struggle and I know I won't get my points across so I'll finish this here. If anything I agree it looks visually impressive and the gameplay looks to scratch the PD itch.

 

[Dabanton]

Dude it's a PD game in all but name.

 

[op_ivy]

no traditional control method? (stupid question)

 

[snoopeasystreet]

no traditional control method? (stupid question)

The human body is the most traditional control method.

Spoiler

Kinect only

 

[Slime]

Child of Eden alone was enough to justify my Kinect purchase, but this just makes it sweeter. Looks amazing.

 

[op_ivy]

The human body is the most traditional control method.

Spoiler

Kinect only

i knew that would be the answer

i understand that there are experiences on kinect you simply cannot replicate on a controller, but this isnt one of them as it looks all but identical to PD games of old. seems like it could sell better as a game that could reach both audiences - but i guess its a niche title to sell kinect to the "hardcore"

 

[snoopeasystreet]

i knew that would be the answer

i understand that there are experiences on kinect you simply cannot replicate on a controller, but this isnt one of them as it looks all but identical to PD games of old. seems like it could sell better as a game that could reach both audiences - but i guess its a niche title to sell kinect to the "hardcore"

I agree but as you can see in this thread, keeping it kinect only will probably sell some units.

 

[Shurs]

The human body is the most traditional control method.

Spoiler

Kinect only

Duckroll said in the other thread that there is controller support.

 

[duckroll]

Duckroll said in the other thread that there is controller support.

What? No, I said it was a Kinect only game.

 

[Shurs]

What? No, I said it was a Kinect only game.

Shit.

I misread that.

Now all my hype is gone.

 

[duckroll]

Shit.

I misread that.

Now all my hype is gone.

Sorry.

 

[ZealousD]

Kinect only?

Fuck.

FUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCK

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Fuck yeah! Panzer Dragoon* LIVES!

 

[Skiesofwonder]

Oh wow this looks amazing! Funny how Japan is creating the best content for Kinect considering it's the only region where it completely flopped. Do we have any information on an America release?

Child of Eden was a XBLA title at first so that's why I ask. I personally would love a retail release.

Edit: looking at the previous posts, I guess I'm one of the only ones that think Crimson Dragons will be greatly enchanced because of Kinect. The genre just fits the strengths of Kinect so well.

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

I don't intend to argue my case much longer anyways, you guys clearly have a lot of valid ammunition and I have an "against the grain" stance.

But thats mostly my point though. This game is "creating it again" and a spiritual successor. It can be similiar in nearly every aspect but still *not* be a true PD game.

Maybe its just aesthetics. I can't stand the look of those ugly dragons. Maybe its the lack of that ivory and black design that is synonymous with PD. Maybe its the complete discarding of established story built on 4 previous games in favour of a new and stand alone universe. The devil is in the details, and the details in this game just aren't PD. I just don't feel right in calling this a PD game even with all the similiarities and the team behind it.

A bad example I guess...It's like...Bomberman Act Zero. For all intents and purposes, it plays like a bomberman game. Made by Hudson Soft. But you wouldn't call it a true bomberman game. A reimagining maybe? but not truly a game of the series.

Anyways, this is an uphill struggle and I know I won't get my points across so I'll finish this here. If anything I agree it looks visually impressive and the gameplay looks to scratch the PD itch.

I wouldn't compare this to Bomberman Act Zero, because this game at least has the original cast of developers that made the original games so strong in the first place.

And there are a lot of uncanny similarities in aesthetics and design. The new dragons—all three of them seen so far—look very well-designed and unique even for PD standards, while representing their specialty quite nicely (the bulky one having a lot of defense and the white one clearly having a skill-based focus). What's more, the environments are as varied and interesting as one would see across the PD canon, even if certain games had more desolate exteriors than others (though, once again, taking place in a different world has given the developers more of an opportunity to expand on what kinds of environments can be featured in a PD-like game). And even the whole camp seems very similar, with the main characters looking like Hunters from PD Saga, and the very idea of raising a dragon clearly being a hold-over from both Zwei and PDS.

So yeah. I think the reason you see the futility in arguing over this is simply because not only is the team the same, but so are many of the conventions and ideas repeated throughout the PD games, now being developed and furthened in the HD era under a new control scheme. For all intents and purposes, this is a new PD in both style and design, the only difference being the developers' inability to obtain the original IP.

And I love it. I absolutely do. A shame I don't have anything but a Wii right now.

 

[flyinpiranha]

Looks amazing! I just picked up a Kinect with the pack in and Child of Eden new for $99 at Gamestop. Had an old iPhone 3GS that they gave me $90 for so it pretty much was a wash.

I never actually owned a Saturn (my friend went Saturn and I went PS1 since we were roommates at the time) but Panzer Dragoon was one of my favorite games on the system. This is great news.

 

[Phonomezer]

This is one XBLA game I wouldn't mind paying full price for at retail >_>

 

[.la1n]

Be still my heart

 

[op_ivy]

Edit: looking at the previous posts, I guess I'm one of the only ones that think Crimson Dragons will be greatly enchanced because of Kinect. The genre just fits the strengths of Kinect so well.

i think it will definitely be enhanced using kinect, just like child of eden is. but CoE at least gave those of us without a kinect the option to use a pad. thats all.


this is looking stunning btw. love the menu screen, reminds me oh so much of panzer dragoon saga. and ugly dragons? where? look like more detailed versions of panzer classics. cant wait to see footage from that jungle stage, but the bee hive ocean will be hard to beat

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Unless I'm missing something, this looks identical to Panzer's gameplay with the exception of the 360° quadrant-viewing and the combat that comes with it. Missions seem broken up into small bits that each have a separate grade which totals up at the end. Any good text explanation for the new game's structure?

 

[op_ivy]

Unless I'm missing something, this looks identical to Panzer's gameplay with the exception of the 360° quadrant-viewing and the combat that comes with it. Missions seem broken up into small bits that each have a separate grade which totals up at the end. Any good text explanation for the new game's structure?

yeah, looks the same to me. the trailer even looked like it had 360 viewing, but that may be dictated by the game and not the player now

 

[Vorg]

Ugh, finally a sequel to Panzer Dragoon and it's Kinect only...

 

[KAOS]

Can't wait! In the mean time i'll keep praying... please allow alternate controls... please allow alternate controls!!!

 

[duckroll]

Unless I'm missing something, this looks identical to Panzer's gameplay with the exception of the 360° quadrant-viewing and the combat that comes with it. Missions seem broken up into small bits that each have a separate grade which totals up at the end. Any good text explanation for the new game's structure?

The game is mission based, with a base camp menu. Instead of a straight on-going sequential stage structure where you keep playing, the game is based around slightly shorter missions which you select from your Base Camp. The main obvious reason for this is that continuous play is taxing when you use Kinect.

But another reason is that the game is built as a XBLA title, so to maximize the content assets, they make multiple missions for each world. As you complete missions available, more will be unlocked. I guess you can think of it as Stage 1-1, 1-2, 1-3, etc. There are 7 worlds in total, which means 7 unique stage settings, each with multiple missions in them.

As for the ranking you see, each mission has several optional challenges in the mission which you will be separately ranked for. The grading you see is not for parts of the mission but rather specific challenges, like collecting markers along the path, or shooting down a wave of enemies, or defeating a boss/target within a certain amount of time. You are ranked based on how successful you are in that sub-objective, and the ranking for each contributes to your mission score.

When you complete missions, you also gain various types of food which you can use to feed your dragon in the Base Camp. Each type of food has a chance to teach your dragon a certain skill, but it is not 100%, so sometimes you have to keep feeding it until it successfully learns the skill. There are various types of skills - some are passive, some boost stats, and some are attacks you can equip. There are over 100 different skills in total.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Awesome! Thanks for the explanation, duckroll! So, the game takes on a sort of PSO MAG-feeding and rolls in Phantom Dust's CCG-like skill collecting for dragon loadouts with a new grinding element? Interesting.

 

[StudioTan]

This looks fantastic. Day one purchase for me!

I bought a Japanese Xbox for Orta. I guess I'm buying a Kinect for this too, unfortunately.

Not going to be happy but...fuck, I need this.

If you're getting a Kinect for this, get Child of Eden as well. You won't be disappointed, it's a great experience with Kinect.

 

[Professor Fog]

Looks great. Now I have a reason to bring the Kinect back out of the closet.

 

[Plinko]

Day one.

LOVED Child of Eden and we need more games like that.

 

[Kyoufu]

This looks fantastic. Day one purchase for me!



If you're getting a Kinect for this, get Child of Eden as well. You won't be disappointed, it's a great experience with Kinect.

Already have it on PS3 and have no interest in playing it with Kinect. I'm only getting a Kinect because this doesn't have traditional controls.

 

[Himself]

Petitions work, right? Let's petition them to include a controller option.

But seriously...I can only imagine the sales they are going to lose by not including a controller option far outweigh the amount of kinects they will sell because of this.

 

[AkuMifune]

Feels like LAIR all over again. But if Microsoft is willing to limit the player base in an effort to push Kinect adoption it could be successful for them, even if the game doesn't sell all that great.

Still, boo.

 

[StudioTan]

Already have it on PS3 and have no interest in playing it with Kinect. I'm only getting a Kinect because this doesn't have traditional controls.

Except CoE is more fun with Kinect than the controller IMO. This seems to play very similarly so I'm excited.

 

[duckroll]

4Gamer's preview has a really high res version of the dragon artwork: http://www.4gamer.net/games/120/G012061/20120226007/

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Feels like LAIR all over again. But if Microsoft is willing to limit the player base in an effort to push Kinect adoption it could be successful for them, even if the game doesn't sell all that great.

Still, boo.

I'm sorry, but how in the fuckity-fuck does this game have anything to do with that piece of shit outside of dragons and motion controls? Lair was a failure, through and through, because the gameplay itself was mediocre and unfun as hell. Stuff like this gets people who don't think Kinect can contribute positively to a gamer's more typical action experience with a normal controller to try it out for themselves. As for sales, well, Kinect does seem to do pretty well on XBLA if the underlying game is appealing and good enough to begin with.

 

[alphaNoid]

I can't wait for this game, time to dust off my Kinect.

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

Holy shit does the art look good. A true spiritual successor to the PD games, I must say!

 

[AkuMifune]

I'm sorry, but how in the fuckity-fuck does this game have anything to do with that piece of shit outside of dragons and motion controls? Lair was a failure, through and through, because the gameplay itself was mediocre and unfun as hell. Stuff like this gets people who don't think Kinect can contribute positively to a gamer's more typical action experience with a normal controller to try it out for themselves. As for sales, well, Kinect does seem to do pretty well on XBLA if the underlying game is appealing and good enough to begin with.

Forcing gimmicky motion controls instead of even allowing the option for controller support?

Ok, I'll let you dispute the fact Kinect is gimmicky, it hasn't proven anything to me yet, but I can see how it could be fun. Just give us the option to use a controller at least.

 

[benzy]

The trailer confirms that the composer for Crimson Dragon is Saori Kobayashi.

YESSSSS!

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Just give us the option to use a controller at least.

I do agree with allowing controllers and letting the featured Kinect experience speak for itself, but I originally imagined this title to be a hybrid controller-Kinect game, like the new Steel Battalion.

 

[Grisby]

Good deal. Haven't been using my Kinect since Gunstringer.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

But seriously...I can only imagine the sales they are going to lose by not including a controller option far outweigh the amount of kinects they will sell because of this.

Maybe it won't pay off with this game alone, but a few more like it and all of a sudden you have a fair amount of core gamers with Kinects out there. At that point releasing core games with no optional traditional controller support becomes a non-issue for Microsoft, as far as potential sales are concerned, and at the same time the chance of those gamers grabbing something like Dance Central or even Kinectimals for their kids increases.

 

[SousedLouse]

The game looks great, way better than the test shots that were out last year. Thanks for the re-uploads on YT, duckroll.

I'm really interested in the game's co-op; with more than one dragon on screen, I'm guessing it'll have local co-op. And I think I saw two Blood Skin dragons near the 0:38 second mark, which probably means that two or more players can pick the same dragon type. I hope that's the case; I love co-op play in shooters, and having the option to pick any type instead of scrambling to get the one I want would be a big boon for me.

On a side note, clicking on the old Project Draco thread after this was was a little confusing; I almost posted there until I saw the link for this thread again.

 

[StudioTan]

Forcing gimmicky motion controls instead of even allowing the option for controller support?

Ok, I'll let you dispute the fact Kinect is gimmicky, it hasn't proven anything to me yet, but I can see how it could be fun. Just give us the option to use a controller at least.

What are they forcing when the game was designed for Kinect control? You're basically implying that this game is designed for a controller but they're removing that option and instead trying to have the Kinect mimic their controller mechanics when that isn't the case.

 

[duckroll]

I've mentioned this in previous threads about the game and it remains my firm opinion that while there is almost no question at all that this game would be improved by having a controller option, it is not really a realistic factor because without the Kinect "gimmick" so to speak, this game would not exist at all.

It is interesting to talk about this again in the wake of recent Kickstarter hype for niche game development. I feel this title falls in a very similar scope, where if not for very specific direct funding, this game could not exist. There is probably no publisher in the industry right now who would be willing to pay for the development of a game like this, in a genre like this, by the developers of the original Panzer Dragoon.

The only reason Microsoft is funding this is because they felt it had a small chance of helping to get hardcore gamers of this niche franchise to pay attention to their new hardware peripheral, and along with other similar projects they have funded they believe it can create some sort of core gamer synergy for Kinect. That is really the only reason. To them this is probably just extended marketing money for Kinect, thrown at a few Japanese developers.

Since this is the case, unless someone else starts up a Kickstarter and raises enough money to pay Grounding, Land Ho, and Sega to make a true Panzer Dragoon sequel on the PS3/360/PC/whatever supporting controllers, keyboard+mouse, Move, Wiimote, Kinect, DDR Mat, etc, we are not going to get any sort of game like this again for a long, long time.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Well said.

 

[Stumpokapow]

I've mentioned this in previous threads about the game and it remains my firm opinion that while there is almost no question at all that this game would be improved by having a controller option, it is not really a realistic factor because without the Kinect "gimmick" so to speak, this game would not exist at all.

It is interesting to talk about this again in the wake of recent Kickstarter hype for niche game development. I feel this title falls in a very similar scope, where if not for very specific direct funding, this game could not exist. There is probably no publisher in the industry right now who would be willing to pay for the development of a game like this, in a genre like this, by the developers of the original Panzer Dragoon.

The only reason Microsoft is funding this is because they felt it had a small chance of helping to get hardcore gamers of this niche franchise to pay attention to their new hardware peripheral, and along with other similar projects they have funded they believe it can create some sort of core gamer synergy for Kinect. That is really the only reason. To them this is probably just extended marketing money for Kinect, thrown at a few Japanese developers.

Since this is the case, unless someone else starts up a Kickstarter and raises enough money to pay Grounding, Land Ho, and Sega to make a true Panzer Dragoon sequel on the PS3/360/PC/whatever supporting controllers, keyboard+mouse, Move, Wiimote, Kinect, DDR Mat, etc, we are not going to get any sort of game like this again for a long, long time.

The same's been true for a lot of the Kinect titles out there. Gunstringer (Twisted Pixel, since purchased by Microsoft) probably wouldn't have existed without Kinect; Child of Eden (Q) obviously was funded by Ubisoft but I think if they hadn't had aspirations to get into the next-gen motion market, I don't think it would have existed or been of the scope that it was. Haunt (NanaOnSha) only exists because of Kinect. And besides Crimson Dragon, I don't think it's very likely another Steel Battalion game would have happened without Kinect--and I suspect Microsoft will be involved in distribution or marketing of Steel Battalion Kinect as well.

 

[NonexistentK]

Oh man this looks so soo soooo good. i was worried for this one for a while considering how many things could go wrong with the project (having kinect only controls, ms publishing, Grounding handling a UE3 project ) but it looks like this is the game would make me get a Kinect.

Hey Sega how about a Panzer Dragoon Saga Sequel, i know my answer ahead but i thought i'd still ask. You know it looks like Futatsugi & Co still have it.

 

[benzy]

4Gamer's preview has a really high res version of the dragon artwork: http://www.4gamer.net/games/120/G012061/20120226007/

They have a couple of older screens in high-res too.

 

[dancrane212]

This looks fantastic, I can't wait!

I guess now is the best time to do another playthrough of Zwei.

 

[AkuMifune]

What are they forcing when the game was designed for Kinect control? You're basically implying that this game is designed for a controller but they're removing that option and instead trying to have the Kinect mimic their controller mechanics when that isn't the case.

I'd be shocked if there wasn't controller support hidden in the dev controls they could easily turn on. But if the game is meant to promote Kinect, I can see why they are doing it this way. Just wish I had the option is all.

Ironically, I think if they are committing to doing it this way I hope they DON'T patch controller support in later. It would almost seem an admission of failure, or something.